Giants in Time

Sorbik - Lost City

To some, the concurrent use of ethics and PKing is oxymoronic; not because it is seemingly contradictory, but because society deems PKing, quite justly, as an unethical act. Yet, I continue to hold the view, against popular opinion, that PKing is ethical, and that the absurdity of this argument does not stem from my opinion, but in the necessity for me to defend it. But Sorbik, what is the function of one who, for no apparent reason, reaps other's enjoyment, if not for their egoist desires? Indeed, this question raises many intricacies, and rather than assuming those who ask this are naive, I will instead strive to justify my answers. Yet, I cannot simply divulge into my reasoning, as first I must demystify anything abstract in terms of respect.

In particular, there are two misconceptions which float around respect. Firstly, respect is earned, not through intentions, but through actions, or deeds. And secondly, respect is rewarded, not through the immediate usefulness, or lack thereof, of the deed which is committed, but by the willingness to succumb to whatever consequence these actions may take you to. Now, this does not mean that stubbornness is a prerequisite to gain respect, but rather that the persistency which one takes to uphold their ideals, despite the repercussions, is. And it is through the persistency of RageQuit to continuously PK randoms, despite the negative recoils, that their prestige is appropriately rewarded. But does PKing randoms deserve respect? After all, level 30's are struck down at their whim, without chance. My answer to this is yes. Like I have said before, the immediate usefulness of an action, in this case PKing randoms, holds no merit in determining whether prestige should be endowed. Instead, their ability to cope with the consequences, namely the amassing hatred and disgust for their small party, is what allows for me to give RageQuit my respects.

Now, the evidence is irrefutable; RageQuit is the most hated guild on the server. Subsequently, they are not, by any means, the strongest. By strength I mean raw power; but what they lack there is made up in terms of unison, comradeship, and family. I admit, as an outsider, that I have no foundation to base this assumption on, rather than their prevailing self in dire times. That is to say, that a guild, namely RageQuit, which can survive against enormous odds, outnumbered and out manned, must have some fundamental glue which holds them together. Earlier I said that RageQuit deserves respect because, even though it is self-inflicted, they are subject to insurmountable odds. But now this goes further, it is their inherent willingness to subject themselves to hardships, and then unexpectedly come out stronger, which coins them, not as the strongest guild, but as legends.

I started off this talk discussing ethics, but so far I have only presented the RageQuit scenario which, if not deftly interpreted, may have an adverse effect. Still, it is necessary, as it provides a basis to which everyone may relate to. I, too, have been PKed spontaneously by RageQuit, but it is my willingness to embrace them, and in turn reward them with prestige which allows for my next argument; PKing is ethical. PKing lessers holds no benefits, except maybe to impose a false sense of dominance. Instead, it induces hardships upon yourself in the form of red names, or accumulated hatred. Many seem to detest PKers because they cause suffering; but who suffers more? The PKer, who must cope with a red name, enemies, and the threat of survival, or the PKed, who loses nothing short of two minutes flying time. It is irrational, then, to accuse PKers of being unethical for causing suffering to others, as ultimately, they are the ones who must endure the the most.

I realize that this talk is a bit verbose. In a nutshell, I could have stated that it is ethical to PK simply for the fact that the risks which follow induce greater distress than a two minute walk back to a location. But, admittedly, it sounds more profound across one thousand words. And I suppose many are intrigued, not by my views on PKing, but on respect. Indeed, I view RageQuit highly, despite their imperative to randomly kill me. But is it through their lucid unity which - despite all that they inflict upon themselves - holds them resolute, that compels me to tap my hats to them. And it is through sheer respect which gives me the title of this work, as RageQuit are indeed, Giants in Time.

Maiya - Lost City

tl;dr

Nah, just kidding. While I do find it annoying to be PKed sometimes and their actions. RageQuit has made the server interesting and entertaining at times.

Moonlite - Lost City

RageQuit is not a guild undeserving of respect. They role-play the side of the typical "bad guys" and they do so well, with an incredibly high level of organization and intelligence (or at least on the part of the higher up officers - can't, unfortunately, say the same about a large part of the guild ; /), even when they're not the strongest. While their ethics are undeniably lacking, they play quite an essential role that makes this game interesting and drives people to continue playing.

That from the view of a person who catalyzed the formation of Integrity (whose sole purpose is to continually TW against RQ, regardless of wins or losses). RageQuit is not a like-able guild but definitely one worthy of respect. To tolerate random PKing is a show of a lack of morals, but to not be in respect of RQ is a show of ignorance.

~Moon

Clickhere - Lost City

=_= i think i have been Pked only once by RQ. And that was all my fault cuz trying to jump an EA + WF with phoenix. lol
Only good thing i got fun from RQ was the videos, closed betta, and early start of the server massive fights.

Lessie - Lost City

Nice OP.

Sorbik - Lost City wrote: »

PKing lessers holds no benefits, except maybe to impose a false sense of dominance. Instead, it induces hardships upon yourself in the form of red names, or accumulated hatred. Many seem to detest PKers because they cause suffering; but who suffers more? The PKer, who must cope with a red name, enemies, and the threat of survival, or the PKed, who loses nothing short of two minutes flying time. It is irrational, then, to accuse PKers of being unethical for causing suffering to others, as ultimately, they are the ones who must endure the the most.[/INDENT]

About this it's not always true, if you constantly pk everyone for 2 hrs in secret passage you are certainly causing suffering to anyone with a quest there, if you ruin a zhen party you are causing suffering due to lost exp scrolls, if you constantly pk the same player you lose more than 2 minutes.

They make the server fun anyway

Kennaaegle - Lost City

Moonlite - Lost City wrote: »

While their ethics are undeniably lacking, they play quite an essential role that makes this game interesting and drives people to continue playing.

Moonlite, while I do not disagree with your post, I do not agree with this statement. Ethics, morals, ect, are relative, you may view their pk'ing habits as a lack of ethics, however, not everyone will undeniably agree with you.
IMO, there are areas of pk'ing that I do not agree with, but as a whole I do not have anything against a random pk'ing guild.
Making a character unnecessarily a constant target is not one of the more desirable things that happen in the server, nor, as Lessie said, is holding up the secret passage -again personal opinion - to 1 or 2 hit low lvl 3x's (the secret passage may be the only annoyance I've had with RQ)
In general, I have been attacked more than a few times by other players attempting to pk me, I remember some of those players names, not in a revengeful manner, but because it was (or could have been) a good fight...

Torinchibi - Lost City

I know it's the same ppl all the time at FB29, and I can tell you all that many of the other RQs will actually go PK the tards killing people 40-50 lvls lower for e-penor inflation purposes. A few ppl have actually said that they will pk their guildmates for doing **** like that. I probably would too, especially when those people have been in FB29 since I was lvl 30 and they've killed me too....then whine when a higher lvl guildie shows up to clean them out. I assure you, they aren't the heroes of RQ or anything like that, in fact, quite the opposite.

angellicdeity

Kennaaegle - Lost City wrote: »

Ethics, morals, ect, are relative, you may view their pk'ing habits as a lack of ethics, however, not everyone will undeniably agree with you.

And that is whats wrong with today's generation.

Morals and Ethics are not relative. There is a clear and distinguisable line between right and wrong.


Taking the extreme case its like saying "Hitlers actions in WWII were completely justified." At no point whatsoever should that be true.

There is no such thing as moral relativity. If you didn't learn that in school then you obviously need to go back.

Sorbik - Lost City

angellicdeity wrote: »

And that is whats wrong with today's generation.

Morals and Ethics are not relative. There is a clear and distinguisable line between right and wrong.


Taking the extreme case its like saying "Hitlers actions in WWII were completely justified." At no point whatsoever should that be true.

There is no such thing as moral relativity. If you didn't learn that in school then you obviously need to go back.

Cultural relativism is a fact; what may be ethical in one culture may be considered unethical in another. For example, in an imaginary place, it is considered ethical, by society, to kill those who reach the age of sixty. In our society, it is unethical. But who are we to impose on other cultures and claim that our views are correct; is it not the same as convincing other religions that Christianity is truth?

The problem here is that you are an ethical absolutist; you believe that there are universal laws to which morals are subject to. It is a respectable opinion, but only respectable when accompanied with logical reason. I'm afraid "if you don't agree you should go back to school" doesn't qualify as logical reasoning, but rather as naivety.

cryucry

Moonlite - Lost City wrote: »

RageQuit is not a guild undeserving of respect. They role-play the side of the typical "bad guys" and they do so well, with an incredibly high level of organization and intelligence (or at least on the part of the higher up officers - can't, unfortunately, say the same about a large part of the guild ; /), even when they're not the strongest. While their ethics are undeniably lacking, they play quite an essential role that makes this game interesting and drives people to continue playing.

That from the view of a person who catalyzed the formation of Integrity (whose sole purpose is to continually TW against RQ, regardless of wins or losses). RageQuit is not a like-able guild but definitely one worthy of respect. To tolerate random PKing is a show of a lack of morals, but to not be in respect of RQ is a show of ignorance.

~Moon

better than i coulda said it. hate and respect can go hand in hand sometimes.

Ordain - Lost City

Moonlite - Lost City wrote: »

RageQuit is not a guild undeserving of respect. They role-play the side of the typical "bad guys" and they do so well, with an incredibly high level of organization and intelligence (or at least on the part of the higher up officers - can't, unfortunately, say the same about a large part of the guild ; /), even when they're not the strongest. While their ethics are undeniably lacking, they play quite an essential role that makes this game interesting and drives people to continue playing.

That from the view of a person who catalyzed the formation of Integrity (whose sole purpose is to continually TW against RQ, regardless of wins or losses). RageQuit is not a like-able guild but definitely one worthy of respect. To tolerate random PKing is a show of a lack of morals, but to not be in respect of RQ is a show of ignorance.

~Moon

This. What would you do without us? Argue about who's gear is better?

t0yo

---

Soda - Lost City

You guys call it random pk over and over again, but it is not random has never been random will never be random, We see you on T and all people on this sever are kos to us, So we have means even if you do think its random. You are just upset you died.. Get over it, It is just a game.



Well Said Sorbik, First post on the sever that i had sat down and went all the way to the end with.

Haiz - Lost City

When I read this post I thought this belonged in 60 minutes or something. Sounds like something that old guy would talk about.

dekciw

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

I know it's the same ppl all the time at FB29, and I can tell you all that many of the other RQs will actually go PK the tards killing people 40-50 lvls lower for e-penor inflation purposes. A few ppl have actually said that they will pk their guildmates for doing **** like that. I probably would too, especially when those people have been in FB29 since I was lvl 30 and they've killed me too....then whine when a higher lvl guildie shows up to clean them out. I assure you, they aren't the heroes of RQ or anything like that, in fact, quite the opposite.

I've heard many of you say that yet I've never seen it happen. I can name you a ton I see all the time in fb29 or around low level areas random pking and I name

Ren, BigTime, Destro, Hip, Omitpieuw, Flew, LordFraquad, PandaNinja(No Longer RQ tho), FSweet, and I know I'm forgetting tons. Maguro used to do it a lot but I haven't seen him do it lately so I won' t comment on him.

Mua - Lost City

Haiz - Lost City wrote: »

When I read this post I thought this belonged in 60 minutes or something. Sounds like something that old guy would talk about.

I know, right? Can I borrow the OP to do my university essays? b:shocked

dekciw wrote: »

I've heard many of you say that yet I've never seen it happen. I can name you a ton I see all the time in fb29 or around low level areas random pking and I name

Ren, BigTime, Destro, Hip, Omitpieuw, Flew, LordFraquad, PandaNinja(No Longer RQ tho), FSweet, and I know I'm forgetting tons. Maguro used to do it a lot but I haven't seen him do it lately so I won' t comment on him.

Don't forget Necrobaba, and oh man, ASH is the best. He's the only 8x I've ever met that wont come out of safe for a 7x veno and a freaking Hercules! I should also point out that he's an archer, it's not even like he's a full int mage >.>

Sorbik - Lost City

b:shockedb:shockedb:shocked

t0yo

---

Deumos - Lost City

dekciw wrote: »

I've heard many of you say that yet I've never seen it happen. I can name you a ton I see all the time in fb29 or around low level areas random pking and I name

Ren, BigTime, Destro, Hip, Omitpieuw, Flew, LordFraquad, PandaNinja(No Longer RQ tho), FSweet, and I know I'm forgetting tons. Maguro used to do it a lot but I haven't seen him do it lately so I won' t comment on him.

Add Merkaba and Allnighte to the list as well.

Moonlite - Lost City

angellicdeity wrote: »

Taking the extreme case its like saying "Hitlers actions in WWII were completely justified." At no point whatsoever should that be true.

Reductio ad Hitlerem b:surrender Godwin's Law dominates -sigh-

Voices - Lost City

Ah, well GuardianZ, Conq, and BLT also random pk.

Unfortunately they wait until 80-90 to start, and only hit 60's in RQ. b:surrender

Morality isn't of question when free PK is built into the game. Those that PK are simply playing the game. Nevertheless, if you are going to question morals, you should question those that PK ONLY to spite other people or hold grudges (many people from the factions above). When people do this, they insert an aggressive human element into the game that makes it not fun.

When others are seen as equals in comparison in their [potential] PK tendencies, PK is not immoral. In fact random PK is the most ethical form of player killing. But again, I don't question a person's ethics when they PK me, I see it as a normal transgression in the game, and I certainly don't b:cry about it. Eventually all people will aid in or directly kill another player, and it is hypocritical of them to cry about death because of this.

Consider being randomly pked by an RQ (OR ANYONE) an inauguration, an invitation to have fun in this game. Do not take it personally.

MissMisery - Lost City

While I do understand players being annoyed by random PK, I feel the same as Voices.

I don't think the majority of players understand how much RQ go through to stay together--how strong we have to be, individually as well as a group. I would have left long ago because of the hardships I've suffered if it weren't for the people in it that I love.

Imagine this: you go out to grind a little, maybe do a quest. On the way flying out from the city, you get one shot by a GuardianZ. You go back to town, then fly out again and get to your destination. You kill 5 mobs, then get two shot by three Conqueror. Rinse and repeat. Random PK can be annoying, but until the other largest and strongest guilds on the server purposely scout for lowbies in your guild to one shot so they can feel good about killing an RQ, you'll never understand how hard it can truly be. And this is for a person who rarely PVPs, and almost never kills a white name.

Yes, I choose to be in the guild. I understand the consequences of it. I stay because I love my friends, and because I'm not going to let bullies tell me which guild I shouldn't be part of. We don't (usually) scout one random player for hours, or make it so they can't train anywhere. I understand it is just tactics and the game--I just wanted you all to know that RQ is not "evil", and we are not the only guild that causes grief.

t0yo

MissMisery - Lost City wrote: »

While I do understand players being annoyed by random PK, I feel the same as Voices.

I don't think the majority of players understand how much RQ go through to stay together--how strong we have to be, individually as well as a group. I would have left long ago because of the hardships I've suffered if it weren't for the people in it that I love.

Imagine this: you go out to grind a little, maybe do a quest. On the way flying out from the city, you get one shot by a GuardianZ. You go back to town, then fly out again and get to your destination. You kill 5 mobs, then get two shot by three Conqueror. Rinse and repeat. Random PK can be annoying, but until the other largest and strongest guilds on the server purposely scout for lowbies in your guild to one shot so they can feel good about killing an RQ, you'll never understand how hard it can truly be. And this is for a person who rarely PVPs, and almost never kills a white name.

Yes, I choose to be in the guild. I understand the consequences of it. I stay because I love my friends, and because I'm not going to let bullies tell me which guild I shouldn't be part of. We don't (usually) scout one random player for hours, or make it so they can't train anywhere. I understand it is just tactics and the game--I just wanted you all to know that RQ is not "evil", and we are not the only guild that causes grief.

Although people should find it very subjective what to define as good and evil, especially in a game. Sure we all imply a certain morality on why we pk and why we're regarded as *******s by the rest of the community

The thing is if you actually bother to think about it too long it just never ends because there's really no answer. It's really all based on our mood and at the end of the day we're actually implying moral values on a virtual world that doesn't exist ='/. Sure someone may contest that at the end of the day even reality can be regarded as such considering its a world based on perception just like on the internet and in games.

However this is a story all about how my life got turned upside down and I'd like to take a minute just let me rant, I'll tell you how I became ragequit's t0yo the Carebear
In the Hidden Hall killed and raised T'was the place where I spent most of my pking days Chillin' and acting all cool luring Chin maseloum to kill all the newbz, when a couple of gms yelled "You're up to no good" wanted to ban me and my mechcrab dude.
I got in one little fight and my guild leader got scared he said "You've broken all our rules time to disappear". I begged and pleaded with him day after day
but he took me off the roster and sent me on my way, I got all pissed,erased my forum address, put my auto walk on and said "Might as well, frick it!"
Guildless, yo this is bad getting killed by red names really fast is this what the guildless are living like hmmmmm this ain't alright
But wait I hear ragequit's pissy, *******s and all that, get an IM from mystic "Ware yo' fat *** at", I don't care so , better then conqueror. They just better be prepared for the RageBear
Just landed in lost village whilst watching shinzoko get pwned, there was a group of guardianz there, the annoying trio. I ain't trying to get killed again I just yell "You're lame!" tried to run away but got disced from Ironman, Reason: SESSUAL HARRASSMENT.
I killed all the humans, and when I was done got a pat on the back from Mystic's arm if anything I could say that this guy is the **** and since he wanted faggotry, I just had to enlist!
I town ported back to Dragon city about 7 or 8, Stereotypically tell Duke Blackie "Yo ***** smell ya later".Couldn't believe it, I was finally there to take my place as The RageQuit Carebear

Voices - Lost City

....

t0yorolled b:surrender

Envy - Lost City

Sorbik - Lost City wrote: »

To some, the concurrent use of ethics and PKing is oxymoronic; not because it is seemingly contradictory, but because society deems PKing, quite justly, as an unethical act. Yet, I continue to hold the view, against popular opinion, that PKing is ethical, and that the absurdity of this argument does not stem from my opinion, but in the necessity for me to defend it. But Sorbik, what is the function of one who, for no apparent reason, reaps other's enjoyment, if not for their egoist desires? Indeed, this question raises many intricacies, and rather than assuming those who ask this are naive, I will instead strive to justify my answers. Yet, I cannot simply divulge into my reasoning, as first I must demystify anything abstract in terms of respect.

In particular, there are two misconceptions which float around respect. Firstly, respect is earned, not through intentions, but through actions, or deeds. And secondly, respect is rewarded, not through the immediate usefulness, or lack thereof, of the deed which is committed, but by the willingness to succumb to whatever consequence these actions may take you to. Now, this does not mean that stubbornness is a prerequisite to gain respect, but rather that the persistency which one takes to uphold their ideals, despite the repercussions, is. And it is through the persistency of RageQuit to continuously PK randoms, despite the negative recoils, that their prestige is appropriately rewarded. But does PKing randoms deserve respect? After all, level 30's are struck down at their whim, without chance. My answer to this is yes. Like I have said before, the immediate usefulness of an action, in this case PKing randoms, holds no merit in determining whether prestige should be endowed. Instead, their ability to cope with the consequences, namely the amassing hatred and disgust for their small party, is what allows for me to give RageQuit my respects.

Now, the evidence is irrefutable; RageQuit is the most hated guild on the server. Subsequently, they are not, by any means, the strongest. By strength I mean raw power; but what they lack there is made up in terms of unison, comradeship, and family. I admit, as an outsider, that I have no foundation to base this assumption on, rather than their prevailing self in dire times. That is to say, that a guild, namely RageQuit, which can survive against enormous odds, outnumbered and out manned, must have some fundamental glue which holds them together. Earlier I said that RageQuit deserves respect because, even though it is self-inflicted, they are subject to insurmountable odds. But now this goes further, it is their inherent willingness to subject themselves to hardships, and then unexpectedly come out stronger, which coins them, not as the strongest guild, but as legends.

I started off this talk discussing ethics, but so far I have only presented the RageQuit scenario which, if not deftly interpreted, may have an adverse effect. Still, it is necessary, as it provides a basis to which everyone may relate to. I, too, have been PKed spontaneously by RageQuit, but it is my willingness to embrace them, and in turn reward them with prestige which allows for my next argument; PKing is ethical. PKing lessers holds no benefits, except maybe to impose a false sense of dominance. Instead, it induces hardships upon yourself in the form of red names, or accumulated hatred. Many seem to detest PKers because they cause suffering; but who suffers more? The PKer, who must cope with a red name, enemies, and the threat of survival, or the PKed, who loses nothing short of two minutes flying time. It is irrational, then, to accuse PKers of being unethical for causing suffering to others, as ultimately, they are the ones who must endure the the most.

I realize that this talk is a bit verbose. In a nutshell, I could have stated that it is ethical to PK simply for the fact that the risks which follow induce greater distress than a two minute walk back to a location. But, admittedly, it sounds more profound across one thousand words. And I suppose many are intrigued, not by my views on PKing, but on respect. Indeed, I view RageQuit highly, despite their imperative to randomly kill me. But is it through their lucid unity which - despite all that they inflict upon themselves - holds them resolute, that compels me to tap my hats to them. And it is through sheer respect which gives me the title of this work, as RageQuit are indeed, Giants in Time.

This is a free video game.

You are aware of this right?

Mua - Lost City

Envy - Lost City wrote: »

This is a free video game.

You are aware of this right?

lmao

Like I always say- Video Games are SERIOUS F-ING BUSINESS

Envy - Lost City

If anybody here has moral problems with killing somebody in a video game I ask you to please get off your computer and go out side.

Ence - Lost City

In reading through your entire post, I was struck with one thought. Allow me to apply a real world example to your statement and see how many people see it through in the same light.


George W. Bush.

-Let the good times roll-

Starang - Lost City

Lol. b:chuckle

Sorbik - Lost City

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

lmao

Like I always say- Video Games are SERIOUS F-ING BUSINESS

and this is what happens when you bring logic to dystopia

i guess providing food-for-thought is unacceptable
though, if you understood the premise of my argument, i do imply that a video game is meant to be played; not to complain over from getting PKed

Envy - Lost City wrote: »

If anybody here has moral problems with killing somebody in a video game I ask you to please get off your computer and go out side.

I don't see what relevance "going outside" has in terms of shaping your ethics to become pro-PK

MissMisery - Lost City

t0yo wrote: »

However this is a story all about how my life got turned upside down and I'd like to take a minute just let me rant, I'll tell you how I became ragequit's t0yo the Carebear
In the Hidden Hall killed and raised T'was the place where I spent most of my pking days Chillin' and acting all cool luring Chin maseloum to kill all the newbz, when a couple of gms yelled "You're up to no good" wanted to ban me and my mechcrab dude.
I got in one little fight and my guild leader got scared he said "You've broken all our rules time to disappear". I begged and pleaded with him day after day
but he took me off the roster and sent me on my way, I got all pissed,erased my forum address, put my auto walk on and said "Might as well, frick it!"
Guildless, yo this is bad getting killed by red names really fast is this what the guildless are living like hmmmmm this ain't alright
But wait I hear ragequit's pissy, *******s and all that, get an IM from mystic "Ware yo' fat **** at", I don't care so , better then conqueror. They just better be prepared for the RageBear
Just landed in lost village whilst watching shinzoko get pwned, there was a group of guardianz there, the annoying trio. I ain't trying to get killed again I just yell "You're lame!" tried to run away but got disced from Ironman, Reason: SESSUAL HARRASSMENT.
I killed all the humans, and when I was done got a pat on the back from Mystic's arm if anything I could say that this guy is the **** and since he wanted faggotry, I just had to enlist!
I town ported back to Dragon city about 7 or 8, Stereotypically tell Duke Blackie "Yo ***** smell ya later".Couldn't believe it, I was finally there to take my place as The RageQuit Carebear

T0Y0 YOU JUST MADE MY DAY AHAHAHA b:chuckleb:cuteb:dirtyb:kissb: