b:cry they took away the gold packs!
Comments
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Twilyte, you bring up some good points, but they are all entirely speculative. Everyone that is complaining is doing so with the assumption that the devs are greedy, while you are defending with the assumption that they are operating under insightful business and development strategy. You may be right, but consider a few points:
Charm packs were removed without explanation (at first). There was only a slight explanation after there was a ton of whining about it on the forums. If this was an intelligent strategy, why did they not foresee the complaints and explain it in the patch notes or, better yet, ahead of time in an announcement? The explanation itself also appears to be a weak one (christmas related? they were released during halloween - what do they have to do with the christmas stuff?), but that is neither here, nor there.
Charm packs were announced to be permanent when released, then (after complaints, mind you) the word "permanent" was deleted from the archive. Is it really a mark of an honest business entity to alter archives, regardless of reason? Would this not show that they are prepared to do anything as long as it benefits them, not their customers? This was also not a good strategy since they didn't even bother with it until people complained and brought that word "permanent" to their attention.
It does seem counter-intuitive, unless you take it a step further. Their money slows down now, due to people boycotting. However, after a week or so, most gamers (who generally have the short-term memory of a flea) will have forgotten or moved on. They will need charms, anyway. Other gamers, who weren't using charms because their characters were too low level, will then be needing charms for the first time, and would have not cared about this issue to begin with. Either way, sales will pick back up, and likely just as high as they were. With sales being relatively the same (or higher), and with the prices being higher - guess what - more money in the long run.Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »Now...explain to me again how this can be interpretted as them trying to get more money from us when it slows down their sales?
If they are greedy, this is a win. If they are savvy business strategists, this is a win. Either assumption leads to this decision being against the customers - us. Either way, we have every right to be angry.
There is good news. If they are being honest about the reason for the removal, the charm packs ("or something similar") will return on the next patch. They will have fixed whatever issue they claimed to have had with them, unless they have to backward-engineer the game to put them back. If not, we have our answer.0 -
Thanks, brovar, for taking the time to read all that. I am prone to lengthy explanations!
I agree that they can set the prices at whatever they decide upon. They probably have massive sales reports tracking each boutique item, showing which ones move the most, etc. Based upon that, they probably figure up how much each item will "contribute" towards paying for payroll, server upkeep, utilities, etc.
Perhaps I am being optimistic, but I would prefer to think that the current price was set with a high enough profit intake as to allow them to offer the combo packs at the same prices. This would explain why they were those prices to begin with.
As you say, time will tell.
One thing out of all of this nags at me. In Dvorak's post, notice when he mentions "...in 'our' best interest..." he isolates the word 'our'. Now in his context (listen up all you who buy into conspiracy threories), was he speaking about himself and the staff at PW-INT, or of PW Entertainment as a whole. I drew from that sentence perhaps PW-INT would like to keep the packs as they were very profitable, but perhaps higher powers have said otherwise...then again, maybe it is like he said, something essential to the charm pack operations got zapped when they removed the Xmas event.
We shall see.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Zenpachi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
It does seem counter-intuitive, unless you take it a step further. Their money slows down now, due to people boycotting. However, after a week or so, most gamers (who generally have the short-term memory of a flea) will have forgotten or moved on. They will need charms, anyway. Other gamers, who weren't using charms because their characters were too low level, will then be needing charms for the first time, and would have not cared about this issue to begin with. Either way, sales will pick back up, and likely just as high as they were. With sales being relatively the same (or higher), and with the prices being higher - guess what - more money in the long run.
If they are greedy, this is a win. If they are savvy business strategists, this is a win. Either assumption leads to this decision being against the customers - us. Either way, we have every right to be angry.
There is good news. If they are being honest about the reason for the removal, the charm packs ("or something similar") will return on the next patch. They will have fixed whatever issue they claimed to have had with them, unless they have to backward-engineer the game to put them back. If not, we have our answer.
Again, I appreciate your insight and taking the time to read my wall of text. b:chuckle
Trust me on this, as much of a fan of this version as I am (no doubt about it!), even I was confused as to the awkward editting and explanation, and, I even stated as much in previous postings. It openned the door for exactly this, debates, conjecture and assumptions. It did nothing to apease the concerns of the players. For that faux pax...no cookies for the staff!! b:angry
Anywho, you are 100% correct. All of this...my points, your points, everyone's points are pure assumption. But rather than join the torch wielding mob stampeding towards Pw-INT headquarters with ropes to hang them high, I simply present an alternative line of thought.
In-game economies and players that spend real currency to re-sell in-game cause such variables in charting sales projections. For example, let's say the average high level player uses 2 of each gold charm per week. He/she spends $16 per week buying individual charms, either with real cash or buying it from the AH. Now the packs come out, and the upsides out weigh the extra cost. The player still gets the 2 of each charms they typically use, but now they have 3 of each extra. The smart thing to do, in order to take full advantage of the savings, would be to keep them all, still burn them at the same rate as before. That way, in time, they would have benefitted from 5 charms of each for the price of 4 charms of each.
Now, let's throw in game reality. This game has TONS of ways to spend your in game coins. Repairs, new gear, new skills, teleporting, crazy stone daily quest, Punish quest, etc. Players aren't stupid. They realize when they have something in their possession that has value to other players. So they keep the original 2 of each charms for their own use, and sell the other 6 in a shop for 300+k each. They are elated with their heavy wallets now!
But, at the end of the week, they have burned out their charms, as normal, and now have to spend more to get replacements. Wouldn't make sense to buy them with in-game gold, because it would be an even swap for what they sold the extra 6 for. Thus, "logically" (and I use that term loosely here) they will buy new ones from the cash shop.
Now, PW was originally going to sell a total of 8 charms to that player over a two week period. Instead, with the packs and some easily anticipated re-selling on the player's part, they have sold 14...or in better terms sold $48 (1 mp pack and 1 hp pack, plus the 4 individual charms the 2nd week) instead of only selling $32 (for 8 individual charms over 2 weeks).
But I totally agree with you and brovar: let's hope they give us some equitable resolution in the next update.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »
In-game economies and players that spend real currency to re-sell in-game cause such variables in charting sales projections. For example, let's say the average high level player uses 2 of each gold charm per week. He/she spends $16 per week buying individual charms, either with real cash or buying it from the AH. Now the packs come out, and the upsides out weigh the extra cost. The player still gets the 2 of each charms they typically use, but now they have 3 of each extra. The smart thing to do, in order to take full advantage of the savings, would be to keep them all, still burn them at the same rate as before. That way, in time, they would have benefitted from 5 charms of each for the price of 4 charms of each.
Now, let's throw in game reality. This game has TONS of ways to spend your in game coins. Repairs, new gear, new skills, teleporting, crazy stone daily quest, Punish quest, etc. Players aren't stupid. They realize when they have something in their possession that has value to other players. So they keep the original 2 of each charms for their own use, and sell the other 6 in a shop for 300+k each. They are elated with their heavy wallets now!
But, at the end of the week, they have burned out their charms, as normal, and now have to spend more to get replacements. Wouldn't make sense to buy them with in-game gold, because it would be an even swap for what they sold the extra 6 for. Thus, "logically" (and I use that term loosely here) they will buy new ones from the cash shop.
Now, PW was originally going to sell a total of 8 charms to that player over a two week period. Instead, with the packs and some easily anticipated re-selling on the player's part, they have sold 14...or in better terms sold $48 (1 mp pack and 1 hp pack, plus the 4 individual charms the 2nd week) instead of only selling $32 (for 8 individual charms over 2 weeks).
But I totally agree with you and brovar: let's hope they give us some equitable resolution in the next update.
Well, you put some nice explanation there. But here's the one thing you seem to be missing: Players who bought those 3 expendable charms from the player you described will have to get them from elsewhere (as everyone needs them). And there is some probability they will end up getting them from cashshop. And three players buying charms from cash shop is better than one buying a charm pack... as may end up buying some fashion or other items.
And I apologise for my bad English, I'm not native English speaker.0 -
Well, you put some nice explanation there. But here's the one thing you seem to be missing: Players who bought those 3 expendable charms from the player you described will have to get them from elsewhere (as everyone needs them). And there is some probability they will end up getting them from cashshop. And three players buying charms from cash shop is better than one buying a charm pack... as may end up buying some fashion or other items.
And I apologise for my bad English, I'm not native English speaker.
Your English is quite sufficient, btw. b:victory
The thought about the extra 3 charms going to players didn't slip by me. But it becomes what we call "point of purchase" or "impulse purchasing". Have you ever been standing in line at a grocery store and noticed all the junk at the check out counter for sale? Candy bars, chips, gossip magazines, etc? People don't go to grocery stores to buy these things most of the time, but if the product is suddenly in front of them, the chances that they go "Hmm...I could go for some M&M's right now," goes up dramatically the longer they see it. That is why they are at the check out. It's the one place in the store everyone HAS to stand around for a few minutes...where everyone lines up to purchase their items. Hence the term "point of purchase sell".
I know quite a number of players (it's amazing how popular Clerics can be!!) who, especially with the rough economic times we are currently in, play within the bounderies and limitations of player made pots and patient hunting. When the original prices of charms were around 375+k per charm, it was extremely rare for them to buy one in shops, and if they did, they milked it for as long as they could. When the charm packs came out, and the prices dropped to around 300k, not only did they buy them more often from other players, I also noticed their playstyle change subtley where they were using fewer pots and relying on their charms more.
Now that the price of gold in the AH is around 100+k per gold, that's 400+k per gold charm if they buy the gold then buy the charm. That is sure to slow them down quite a bit, and more than likely they will focus on their veno's again (who hardly need to use charms and make good gold). This WILL slow down their sales.
Even though these "package" deals are sort of misleading to the consumer, in that, most consumers don't realize how much profit is actually built into the products (both here and real world), one thing is certain. They stimulate consumers to buy more.
Perhaps the "economic leaders" in our real world should start playing mmorpgs. Maybe they can learn a thing or two about successfully stimulating our economy!!b:bye
Pssstt....personally, I believe ebil penguins high jacked the charm packs and that the snowmen were just a front to cover their heist!!b:shocked[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
moving this thread to the Cash Shop forum where it belongs.
Charm bundles will be back as soon as possible (we hope). Still have some technical issues to iron out.Remember, posting on these forums is not a right - It's a PRIVILEGE!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thus the ShazzBot has spoken...0 -
Finally, for our value-minded players, we are introducing new additions to our boutique in the form of Charm Packs and the New Player Pack. These value-priced bundles are perfect for the bulk purchaser looking to save some gold as well as the new player curious to sample a variety of our most useful cash shop items. The following bundle packs are now available:
Gold Guardian Pack
Gold Spirit Pack
Bronze Guardian Pack
Bronze Spirit Pack
As an added bonus, each Charm Pack also comes with one Rainbow Egg (a Big Egg for Gold Packs or a Small Egg for Bronze Packs) that contains a random item! Within these eggs most players will receive either Buff Charms or Gear Socketable Gems, but there is a slight chance of winning rare mounts or pets. For example, if you purchased a Big Rainbow Egg you may find yourself the winner of the unique and fierce Goldmane Lion Lord mount! And within each Small Rainbow Egg, buyers have the chance of winning the cuddly and adorable Snow Hare pet!
dont see anything in that that say limited time <.<0 -
TheShazzbot wrote: »moving this thread to the Cash Shop forum where it belongs.
Charm bundles will be back as soon as possible (we hope). Still have some technical issues to iron out.
Yay thank you b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheShazzbot wrote: »moving this thread to the Cash Shop forum where it belongs.
Charm bundles will be back as soon as possible (we hope). Still have some technical issues to iron out.
b:angry I blame the snowmen.0 -
Naris - Heavens Tear wrote: »b:angry I blame the snowmen.
They killed the packs with their ultimate destruction spells. You were warned.Mua - 8x WF - Conqueror0 -
Nooooo, my 100k b:shockedb:shocked0
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posted the following in a similar thread:
"Let me start off by saying that our Charm Packs have been a very successful addition to our Cash Shop and therefore it would be in 'our' best interest to make these bundles available again to our members as soon as possible.
The truth of the matter is that due to some technical issues (semi related to the issues with closing all Christmas events simultaneously) we needed to pull these products for (what we hope is) a short duration.
Please bear with us as we iron out the issues related to these Packs."
and yes, we recently altered the text as some of you have pointed out above. Nothing devious going on there really. We just wanted to make sure that the archived news item reflects the current status of these Packs. Thank you for reminding us to correct that statement!
Lies
why did you guys edit the announcement if it's just a technical issues? FAIL
MORE QQ please, we love to make you guys look bad.0 -
Jtune - Heavens Tear wrote: »Finally, for our value-minded players, we are introducing new additions to our boutique in the form of Charm Packs and the New Player Pack. These value-priced bundles are perfect for the bulk purchaser looking to save some gold as well as the new player curious to sample a variety of our most useful cash shop items. The following bundle packs are now available:
Gold Guardian Pack
Gold Spirit Pack
Bronze Guardian Pack
Bronze Spirit Pack
As an added bonus, each Charm Pack also comes with one Rainbow Egg (a Big Egg for Gold Packs or a Small Egg for Bronze Packs) that contains a random item! Within these eggs most players will receive either Buff Charms or Gear Socketable Gems, but there is a slight chance of winning rare mounts or pets. For example, if you purchased a Big Rainbow Egg you may find yourself the winner of the unique and fierce Goldmane Lion Lord mount! And within each Small Rainbow Egg, buyers have the chance of winning the cuddly and adorable Snow Hare pet!
dont see anything in that that say limited time <.<
There's one word that's missing there that was edited out. Permanent. That's part of the issue, because they said they were introducing new permanent additions to the CS. THey have since edited that announcement, so you're actually reading the second version, not the original version. *shrug*A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. -Robert Frost0 -
bump
envy wants packs back lor.0 -
um...im gonna stop playing until they have the gold charm packs selling again in cashshop
guys...just dont buy their 4gold charms , let them know its so wrong that they removed the package
RoC lost to Radiance in the last week tw cuz most of us couldnt afford the expensive 400k gold charms, GG0 -
lol, for one, a lot of people were rooting for RoC's demise that day, but that's not the point. XD
The gold packs would give 4 in each pack and cost 16 gold, right? Well, a single gold charm costs 4 gold, do the math....0 -
um...im gonna stop playing until they have the gold charm packs selling again in cashshop
guys...just dont buy their 4gold charms , let them know its so wrong that they removed the package
RoC lost to Radiance in the last week tw cuz most of us couldnt afford the expensive 400k gold charms, GG
Wow, with all those lands generating millions in gold for you and you couldn't afford an average increase of 100k per charm.
Yes, I am absolutely sure that Radiance somehow managed to find their charms on sale for 300k...NOT! They faced the same increased prices your guild faced.
People lose TWs simply because they get out played. Try again next week (both at winning your TW and in case that doesn't work out, coming up with a better, well thought out excuse.)The gold packs would give 4 in each pack and cost 16 gold, right? Well, a single gold charm costs 4 gold, do the math....
Actually, you get 5 charms for the 16 gold, rather than 4. So basically, buy 4 get one free. But still, it was a rather lame excuse at why any guild would have lost in TW.
And for the record, I don't care who wins any TW. I don't even participate, but when I see something as brain-damaged as claiming an increase in CS prices caused a well established guild to lose in a TW, I just gotta call it out as stupid.
Besides, another translation to the RoC loss, according to our thoughtful masareti:
PW-INT just pwnd RoC. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Okay this has to be some of the worst "technical issues" that the pwi community has seen. The PWI staff said that the charm packs will "be back soon" then they ended their sentence with "I hope" LOL. Meanwhile, if they ever DO bring the packs back, or something similar, charm prices will shoot up to 450k, increasing ~ 50% higher than the prices were with charm packs. This is incredibly RAUNCHY of the PWI and very CHILDISH. There might have been some technical issues with the charm packs w/ the Christmas installments in the game etc. etc.... But the simple fact is, TAKE OUT ALL THE CHRISTMAS INSTALLMENTS. No one wants chocolate additives when they are hoping for rub stone, or other materials. Take it out and install charm PACKS AGAIN.
Thanks PWI "community" staffb:angryb:angryb:angryb:angryb:0 -
Myai - Heavens Tear wrote: »lol, for one, a lot of people were rooting for RoC's demise that day, but that's not the point. XD
The gold packs would give 4 in each pack and cost 16 gold, right? Well, a single gold charm costs 4 gold, do the math....
errrr, have u ever buy the charms package?
1 package 16usd contain 5 charms. do the research before u say "do the math" hahaha0 -
Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wow, with all those lands generating millions in gold for you and you couldn't afford an average increase of 100k per charm.
Yes, I am absolutely sure that Radiance somehow managed to find their charms on sale for 300k...NOT! They faced the same increased prices your guild faced.
People lose TWs simply because they get out played. Try again next week (both at winning your TW and in case that doesn't work out, coming up with a better, well thought out excuse.)
Actually, you get 5 charms for the 16 gold, rather than 4. So basically, buy 4 get one free. But still, it was a rather lame excuse at why any guild would have lost in TW.
And for the record, I don't care who wins any TW. I don't even participate, but when I see something as brain-damaged as claiming an increase in CS prices caused a well established guild to lose in a TW, I just gotta call it out as stupid.
Besides, another translation to the RoC loss, according to our thoughtful masareti:
PW-INT just pwnd RoC. b:bye
hahaha everyone know Radiance is the strongest guild on Heaven's tear server, so what, at least RoC is good enough to defend for 2.5 hours+ in every tws, what else guild can do it? Evolution? hahaha, they wil get pwned less than 2hrs or 1.5
and why u r being so serious of what i said lol XD we dont need excuses, 1) rad is really much stronger, 2) Rad is really much richer than RoC these are the facts , we won Radiance Once in tw before, and we always lost to them in last 5-10 mins, which mean we still have high chance defend them successfully
btw which guild are u in? are u a radiance's fans? you dont have your own style, thats bad
if u r a man or wanna be a hero, go join a small guild and attack radiance if u have balls0 -
Obvious Troll is Obvious.btw which guild are u in? are u a radiance's fans? you dont have your own style, thats bad
if u r a man or wanna be a hero, go join a small guild and attack radiance if u have balls
Anyways the people in Radiance aren't nearly as rich as you'd think, because we have to keep our public image good most of us spend millions on fashion. Anyways going to war every week burns our charms a lot harder than yours because we are on the offensive and die quite a bit more often due to towers or other causes.
Oh and Hitsuu, what are you talking about? I don't recall charms ever being 450k and why would a cheaper way to acquire charms make their prices go up?0 -
I posted this in the update thread, but it won't get much attention there:
"We are currently working out details for new Charm Packages. More information to come soon!"
The "permanent" packs were removed, and the archives edited to cover the trail. Give us one reason we should believe this, since this too may be erased and never spoken of again.
Why are the old packs not back in the cash shop? Why do we have to wait for something else?0 -
Lol i knew they are going to roll out something different. I will boycott the boutique until the old same charm packs are returned. If this game is unplayable without charm. I will quit. b:bye0
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If they can make something new. They can bring the old one back too. No more boutique till then0
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MATENINCE HAPPEND, NO CHARMS ARE BACK
GOOD GMS PROMISE PLAYERS THINGS THEN DO ****ING NOTHING
EVEN BETTER GMS ALLOW HACKING ON PVP SERVERS LOL HAI BIGFACE
lol these gms blow **** why am i still playing this game0 -
Yup... Now expect for the forum messages to be altered, so that there will be no sign of them saying that charm packs are coming back.0
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hahaha everyone know Radiance is the strongest guild on Heaven's tear server, so what, at least RoC is good enough to defend for 2.5 hours+ in every tws, what else guild can do it? Evolution? hahaha, they wil get pwned less than 2hrs or 1.5
and why u r being so serious of what i said lol XD we dont need excuses, 1) rad is really much stronger, 2) Rad is really much richer than RoC these are the facts , we won Radiance Once in tw before, and we always lost to them in last 5-10 mins, which mean we still have high chance defend them successfully
btw which guild are u in? are u a radiance's fans? you dont have your own style, thats bad
if u r a man or wanna be a hero, go join a small guild and attack radiance if u have balls
The only "balls" I need in life are those that fathered two children far more literate than you.
Apparantly, your "balls" didn't get you far, as Radiance still won. No matter how long you lasted...you still lost. Second place is still the first loser.
My comment was merely stating that an increase in charm prices being used as an excuse for losing a TW is absurd.
As for my guild, it's my family, real life...a whoppin' 4 peeps plus two we consider family. Tremble before the might of our signifigant 6!! The reason we don't "join" others or expand to include others is because we chose not to deal with "QQ" guild drama. It's a game, and we enjoy it as such. We take our time and enjoy ourselves.
We don't have "delusions of grandeur" of taking over some fictious world. To all of you out there that do, more power to you. To each their own, and I think the TW are a neat part of this game. But to those that chose to do TW, then come here with a lame excuse as to why you lost (like "QQ..the charms are so pricey we lost our TW"), I will call you out for what you are: a twit who needs to excercise the brain more than your "balls".
Peace.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »The only "balls" I need in life are those that fathered two children far more literate than you.
Apparantly, your "balls" didn't get you far, as Radiance still won. No matter how long you lasted...you still lost. Second place is still the first loser.
My comment was merely stating that an increase in charm prices being used as an excuse for losing a TW is absurd.
As for my guild, it's my family, real life...a whoppin' 4 peeps plus two we consider family. Tremble before the might of our signifigant 6!! The reason we don't "join" others or expand to include others is because we chose not to deal with "QQ" guild drama. It's a game, and we enjoy it as such. We take our time and enjoy ourselves.
We don't have "delusions of grandeur" of taking over some fictious world. To all of you out there that do, more power to you. To each their own, and I think the TW are a neat part of this game. But to those that chose to do TW, then come here with a lame excuse as to why you lost (like "QQ..the charms are so pricey we lost our TW"), I will call you out for what you are: a twit who needs to excercise the brain more than your "balls".
Peace.
sorry i was impatient to read what u wrote, its so boring and meaningless, i didnt read all, only the first 2 paragraphs, and...what ur family...and blah blah....its none of my business hahahaXD0 -
Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »The only "balls" I need in life are those that fathered two children far more literate than you.
Apparantly, your "balls" didn't get you far, as Radiance still won. No matter how long you lasted...you still lost. Second place is still the first loser.
Quoted for truth. b:chuckle0 -
Have not and will not spend another dime on this game till you reinstate these as advertised permaneant charm packs.
So basicly I havent allowed my family to play on the pc's.
Found a new game (that is not PWI)
Bring back your permeneant charm packs or begin to lose customer's.
Will post about (this game that is not PWI) as I learn more about it
TheShazzbot
Administrator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 151
#2 Yesterday, 04:00 PM
There is information regarding the status of charm packs in this weeks patch notes.
also, please refrain from discussing other MMO's (as well as competitive games to PWI) on our boards.
Consider this a warning and we will ban you if you discuss that game again.
Where can I find this weeks patch notes? can provide a link to it.
+=========================================================
Thus the Jebbediah has spoken0
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