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Old races needs an upgrade

axiz01axiz01 Posts: 4 Arc User
i've been playing pwi since 2010
and i observed all the upgrade and changes on the game
there were upgrades that are good and there are not, people cant deny that
that's 1 of the reason pwi are loosing bunch of players
i want to discuss about the archer class
it seems like pwi forgot to modify old race such as archer or should i say pwi already forgot that old races still exist...
archer class was once a key class on a squad (long time ago) xD
but now,
archer class is so nerfed in terms of either pvp or pve
if you compare archers on same LA type classes (sin and DB)
if an archer have r9r3 weapon and gear set a DB can easily outmatch it even if it only has a t3 gear set
if a sin with gear set, stats, cards, spirit the same with archer, it can 1 shot an archer, unlike archers whatever they do they cant 1 shot an equally stat sin/db because of the OPness of such races
in terms of skills
sins have a skill that can deal damage twice if upgraded enough it can deal more damage
it also has a skills that can deal decent damage (10k+ basic damage)+ 900% weapon damage
DB has same skill statistics more powerful than archers + OP buffs and debuffs with fast cool down
archers dont have that even a neverfall upgraded skill it can only deal less than 1k + not much weapon damage
and some skills didnt even change a bit after ugrading with neverfall books
archer self buffs sometimes dont have bearings on gameplay because of low addition to basic skill or damge compare to other races
there are plenty of archer skill that are useless even if it's upgraded to max

take aim - it needs 5-3 seconds to charge to reach max damage + weapon damage, you're dead already before it reaches the max charge

winged shell - can absorb NOT MUCH of a damage for 20secs only, they can still be one shot by a certain class even if you have same gears and stats and level while wearing this buffs

flight mastery - ONLY works on Elven Wings with 0.5 flying speed speed, this was one of the unique passive of an elf... but now, it is the most useless passive skill

knockback arrow - works ONLY on mobs, useless in PVP because not only you cant knock other players it deals only 3k damage even if you upgrade to max

barrage of arrows - once a special skill for archers, but now it became useless because it doesnt deal much damage on either PvE and PvP

blessing of condor - it only has 10secs effect and useless againts magic damage

galvanic aura/charge - Lasts 30 seconds. The Critical Rate increase applies to the next 5 to 9 attacks, 30secs isnt enough to reach the 7th to 9th atk unless if its a normal damage. and whats the use of "Charge yourself with an electric current" effect if it wont take any effect on damage in metal skills combo?

ataraxia - stealth but you can move? wth!

arrow inferno - deals 1500 dmg + 250% weapon dmg with 60secs cool down and again in need of a spark. so nerf compared to skills of other classes

frost spalsh - requires our frost arrow that only cost 25 chi with 3 secs cool down and deadly shot that dont cost any chi with 12 secs cool down and replaced it with a skill that cost 2 sparks with 3mins cool down! cmon pwi, be reasonable

and some other skills didnt have changes after upgrading to neverfall
all in all
it seems like archer dont have any special or unique ability for being an archers or elf rather
i understand pwi has to profit
actually only the few Cash Shopper players are the only once left playing your game
players are quiting coz you left other players favorite class floating
i heard that there is an upcoming update again with new race
on that matter
PWI only gains more alt account and wont attract old time players to play again because of unfair game balance
which will be more concentrated to new races and classes
my purpose is to petition to PWI on modification and balancing of elf race especially archer class

Comments

  • axiz01axiz01 Posts: 4 Arc User
    i forgot to mention sharpened tooth arrow skill - it doesnt work on most of the instance bosses anymore
  • indeterminateindeterminate Posts: 13 Arc User
    Please don't set Joe off again
  • sjampiesjampie Posts: 398 Arc User
    edited April 24
    axiz01 wrote: »
    ....
    it seems like archer dont have any special or unique ability for being an archers or elf rather
    i understand pwi has to profit
    actually only the few Cash Shopper players are the only once left playing your game
    players are quiting coz you left other players favorite class floating
    i heard that there is an upcoming update again with new race
    on that matter
    PWI only gains more alt account and wont attract old time players to play again because of unfair game balance
    which will be more concentrated to new races and classes
    my purpose is to petition to PWI on modification and balancing of elf race especially archer class

    You wrote "i understand pwi has to profit". No, it's PWE that want the profit. That's why we have charge and spend rewards. But in the end only one is responsible to spend money on this F2P game. Also 'we' need to know that everything we own in the game isn't ours. It's still written in the TOS.

    On to the next part:

    "actually only the few Cash Shopper players are the only once left playing your game"
    So you can see everyone around you spending money. Kinda cool. However if you really try you can still see F2P players. The amount of archers is dropping but they're still here. People have a chance to make other characters so they invest time playing those characters and even change their main. There's no need to spend money on "your" game if you just want to have some fun again.

    "players are quiting coz you left other players favorite class floating"
    No, they quit because they have to do more important things, found another game, moved to another server etc. I still have contact with some people who moved to private servers. But then again, it's also possible to start another character. No need to play an Archer if you're frustrated all the time because you can't kill other players and don't want to go for normal pve quests. Then there's a thing like deleting a friend from your friend-list. As long as people don't use world-chat this 'friend' things the one behind the character isn't playing.

    "i heard that there is an upcoming update again with new race"
    Yes, if you was a bit more active on the Arc forum you should have noticed it already. There are even movies on YT that show the new characters.

    "PWI only gains more alt account and wont attract old time players to play again because of unfair game balance
    which will be more concentrated to new races and classes"
    To have more classes (and alt accounts) means that people willing to spend money on the new classes but don't want to invest time to the character they've chosen. Why work for the best armor and weapon if you can buy it from other people by just selling gold? Why wait for skill-books if you can spend (a large amount of) gold in the boutique?
    As an "old time player" (also an Archer) I don't give a sh.. about the game balance and all the qq around the game. If I die, I die. Nothing to worry about. A game is just for playing and not to stay online for 24/6 and 20/1 (maintenance lol). People just need to learn to alter the game play to have some fun. If they're not able to have fun they should make another character, move on to another character, have a break by not starting PWI for a few weeks or find a new hobby.


    edit: the only thing I would like to change on my character is to have a voice like all other classes. After all those years archers still don't have a 'sound'. Well, they have but it's in stealth for ages. :smiley:
  • mysticblue#1834 mysticblue Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited April 24
    sjampie wrote: »
    axiz01 wrote: »
    ....
    it seems like archer dont have any special or unique ability for being an archers or elf rather
    i understand pwi has to profit
    actually only the few Cash Shopper players are the only once left playing your game
    players are quiting coz you left other players favorite class floating
    i heard that there is an upcoming update again with new race
    on that matter
    PWI only gains more alt account and wont attract old time players to play again because of unfair game balance
    which will be more concentrated to new races and classes
    my purpose is to petition to PWI on modification and balancing of elf race especially archer class

    You wrote "i understand pwi has to profit". No, it's PWE that want the profit. That's why we have charge and spend rewards. But in the end only one is responsible to spend money on this F2P game. Also 'we' need to know that everything we own in the game isn't ours. It's still written in the TOS.

    On to the next part:

    "actually only the few Cash Shopper players are the only once left playing your game"
    So you can see everyone around you spending money. Kinda cool. However if you really try you can still see F2P players. The amount of archers is dropping but they're still here. People have a chance to make other characters so they invest time playing those characters and even change their main. There's no need to spend money on "your" game if you just want to have some fun again.

    "players are quiting coz you left other players favorite class floating"
    No, they quit because they have to do more important things, found another game, moved to another server etc. I still have contact with some people who moved to private servers. But then again, it's also possible to start another character. No need to play an Archer if you're frustrated all the time because you can't kill other players and don't want to go for normal pve quests. Then there's a thing like deleting a friend from your friend-list. As long as people don't use world-chat this 'friend' things the one behind the character isn't playing.

    "i heard that there is an upcoming update again with new race"
    Yes, if you was a bit more active on the Arc forum you should have noticed it already. There are even movies on YT that show the new characters.

    "PWI only gains more alt account and wont attract old time players to play again because of unfair game balance
    which will be more concentrated to new races and classes"
    To have more classes (and alt accounts) means that people willing to spend money on the new classes but don't want to invest time to the character they've chosen. Why work for the best armor and weapon if you can buy it from other people by just selling gold? Why wait for skill-books if you can spend (a large amount of) gold in the boutique?
    As an "old time player" (also an Archer) I don't give a sh.. about the game balance and all the qq around the game. If I die, I die. Nothing to worry about. A game is just for playing and not to stay online for 24/6 and 20/1 (maintenance lol). People just need to learn to alter the game play to have some fun. If they're not able to have fun they should make another character, move on to another character, have a break by not starting PWI for a few weeks or find a new hobby.


    edit: the only thing I would like to change on my character is to have a voice like all other classes. After all those years archers still don't have a 'sound'. Well, they have but it's in stealth for ages. :smiley:

    It's really nice that you can stick to the game and just have fun with it.

    While I too started out in the same manner and PWI is my first mmorpg so I have had the fun and thrill of doing the lore and quests and all (Honestly I love the PVE aspect of PWI is really amazing(there is always plenty of stuff to do) and that's what keeps from migrating to private servers since they are mostly about PVP without little or no incentive on PVE parts..barely few people like to squad up and do dungeons)

    It's true though PWI does seem to mysteriously provoke people(or ir could be just me) to engage into the PVP aspect not just for fun but also from a competitive viewpoint(which obviously one doesn't need to be rampantly crazy about) but I guess it stems from the crazy difference and also from the frustration of dying so frequently in any mass pvp event (a lot of the gear upgrade/utility mats also come from NW/xNW so one can't just keep avoiding PVP events inevitably)

    So I don't mind the game as it is it's very much fun to play but anger bouts just happen to come occasionally.(And I apologize if someone found me to be too annoying qqing on the forum threads since I am physically away from the game at the moment otherwise I wouldn't have any reasons to frequently post here.)

    Well I won't forget that one time when a G16 archer soloed the Big Fish for me in Raging Tides for the age of coming quests(It's one of the nicest memories I have in PWI)
    Post edited by mysticblue#1834 on
  • datsangdatsang Posts: 107 Arc User
    There just is no reason to roll archer at this point, unless you really into the theme of the class. It offers no unique debuffs for PvE, it offers no useful buff and its ability in PvP is pretty laughable compared to other classes. All in all it just offers nothing unique nor does it do anything better than other classes, making the class more or less pointless to play to me least personally.

    Not to forget there is a new class coming to fill the hole archer would leave in the game, they just do everything better than archer would. So while its not really reworks for archer, one the class would require but is never getting, playing the new class instead when it releases might be a worthwhile re-roll option.
  • mechabeastmc666mechabeastmc666 Posts: 346 Arc User
    You are leaving out a lot of things i notice. With No exaggeration here, Every-Yes Every single time i encounter a archer, They Go for their almost spamable skill, Lightening strike. Which is a magic skill that is based off the archer's physical dmg if i remember right. This skill also uses their Critical percentage. So me the BM is getting Hit with a ranged spamable Magic attack with over-not at, but over 50% Chance that it'll be a critical strike. That stuff Hurts.

    But hey, sorry your experiencing a little trouble with sins.
  • rudi666rudi666 Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited April 24
    it's not just archers but also wizzies! here are some skills that haven't developed over the years:

    Demon Morning Dew: heals the target every 3 seconds for 200 Health. Lasts 9 seconds.
    I guess the 200 health every 3 seconds was good when people had around 5k hp. Now it's kinda pointless though.

    suggestion: maybe it should be a percentage of the health by the person who is casting?
    (On a side note: every time I cast morning dew it always casts twice. A super small cooldown would prevent this from happening.

    Demon The Dragons Breath: Demon version has a 25% chance every 3 seconds to restore 500 Health.
    also very outdated. I picked demon back in the days because it was easier in full delta. sage stuns and makes you have agro, demon heals and doesnt agro (as much).

    suggestion: maybe it should be a percentage of the health by the person who is casting?

    Undine Strike: reduces the target's Water, Fire, and Earth Resistances for 12 seconds by 60%.
    If the debuff on the target is for example 6 seconds, and you cast it again, it doesn't reset the timer. This is fine by me, but do it to every debuff (especially paralyze).

    Elemental shell: Increases Metal, Water, Fire and Earth resistances by 1000%. Has a 10% chance to dispel negative status effects on you.

    This skill was good against arcanes which used these elements, but now it's more of a chi skill as a defense skill.

    Suggestion: also add magic damage reduction by some % to make it more useful again?

    Thanks, Lumpro
  • cosmosia1989cosmosia1989 Posts: 87 Arc User
    Please don't set Joe off again

    But why :(

    All I am saying, since Archer is the class I am purely focusing on right now. Yes, Archer do have massive 1v1 disadvantages vs Barbs, DBs, Seeker, Sins and BMs. However, all the other classes not mentioned including all casters in this game are insanely easy to be killed as an archer. If they were to give archer too much additional damage, caster classes would call Archer the most broken class ever because in a direct confrontation, that might even be true. I mean yeah, caster get floored by most of the classes archer is weak against as well..but thats not the point!

    There are some decent changes that will hit PWI eventually down the road for archer but most of the classes will still be a massive difficulty for archer. The thing I am looking forward to the most is the DB nerf tho. With them removing paralyze jumps, increasing the chi cost and especially removing the far-range damage reduction...if a DB can't insta-kill an archer, they might even end up having big trouble in an equally geared 1v1 with an archer after the nerf and I just friggin love it. Even sins...archer just needs a bit more damage and it can be insanely good. It has all the move-sets in the world for defense if you play it right..but damage is mostly the limiting factor. If you cant put pressure on the target..you will eventually die. That's just it.

  • boo4uboo4u Posts: 406 Arc User
    so the topic should be changed to archers need an upgrade?

    just come back when the new expansion comes.I know i know...2 new toons,same stuff..ok just make the toons then log off because its the same stuff.

    the forum proves this..just look at the topics on a daily basis,hardly none!

  • antonio0590antonio0590 Posts: 50 Arc User
    All i want is for PWI to add Blessing of the Condor as a glyph skill. Can be something like:
    Mana: 500
    Cooldown: 120 seconds
    Chi gain: 10
    Increase evasion by 1000% for 10 seconds (stays the same)

    Sanguine - Gain 30 chi (+5 per lvl range)
    Verdant - 25% chance to evade status effects for 30 seconds (+5 for each lvl range)
    Ethereal - 25% chance to evade dmg for 30 seconds (+5 for each lvl range)
    Golden - Reduce incoming dmg by 20% (+10 for each lvl range)
    Argent - Increase skill dmg by 15% for 10 seconds (+5 for each lvl range)


    just an idea of what it could be.

    And maybe change the type of amp Blood Vows gives, to make it more useful in PvE.
  • indeterminateindeterminate Posts: 13 Arc User
    Please don't set Joe off again

    But why :(


    I was teasing lol
  • kokootkokoot Posts: 55 Arc User
    In a seconds sins will come and will ask for an upgrade. Because they are not OP enough. They cant insta kill one or two classes yet. Then they will explain you that evasion buff is good and almost the same like 5 life saving skills that sins have...

    The biggesst issue is that paralyze is spamable. So you can be paralyzed over and over again just forever.
  • heero200heero200 Helper Extraordinary Posts: 3,628 Community Moderator
    @rudi666 poor wiz we do feel a bit neglected with our skills. Would love to see db glyph tho.

    Lv 10 db grants immunity to anyone in range depending on the shield they have. Lol op! But o dear...

    May be, really think we need some more slots tho if they expand more skils.

    Thanks .
  • madonna89madonna89 Posts: 26 Arc User
    Try playing a psy in todays meta then :)
  • rudi666rudi666 Posts: 39 Arc User
    heero200 wrote: »
    @rudi666 poor wiz we do feel a bit neglected with our skills. Would love to see db glyph tho.

    Lv 10 db grants immunity to anyone in range depending on the shield they have. Lol op! But o dear...

    May be, really think we need some more slots tho if they expand more skils.

    Thanks .

    oh i don't need wizzies to be super op. i like the challenge anyways :P just a few skills that are way outdated.
    for example: i always used to have 4943 hp unbuffed as a wiz (before tideborn were out). now i have 26300 hp unbuffed.
    maybe demon db should have a proc of 10% health (500hp of 5000hp).

    glyphing could also work, but i think a change like this is easier to accomplish
  • heero200heero200 Helper Extraordinary Posts: 3,628 Community Moderator
    rudi666 wrote: »
    heero200 wrote: »
    @rudi666 poor wiz we do feel a bit neglected with our skills. Would love to see db glyph tho.

    Lv 10 db grants immunity to anyone in range depending on the shield they have. Lol op! But o dear...

    May be, really think we need some more slots tho if they expand more skils.

    Thanks .

    oh i don't need wizzies to be super op. i like the challenge anyways :P just a few skills that are way outdated.
    for example: i always used to have 4943 hp unbuffed as a wiz (before tideborn were out). now i have 26300 hp unbuffed.
    maybe demon db should have a proc of 10% health (500hp of 5000hp).

    glyphing could also work, but i think a change like this is easier to accomplish

    I kinda get the feeling they will glyph all skills or more in the future.

    We will have to wait and see I guess.

    Thanks.
  • mechabeastmc666mechabeastmc666 Posts: 346 Arc User
    Wizards can Spam A stealth skill Yes, Spam a stealth skill To make it so a melee class can Never hit them. I had a wizard do this to me, and he was +12R9 But he did this for nearly 20 minutes.

    I didnt have enough dmg to kill him before He spamed the skill to go invisible to hit me with spell after spell. Which was about 2 or 3 seconds in between. By then his charm ticked. I also think the skill breaks him out of any debuffs/Stuns. (could have been his weapon, but every time i stuned him in those 20 minutes, he broke out when he used it.)

    I seriously do not think wizards need a upgrade. To kill it, you'd have to do it within one shot, OR 3 seconds before the wizard can spam the stealth skill again.
  • heero200heero200 Helper Extraordinary Posts: 3,628 Community Moderator
    Wizards can Spam A stealth skill Yes, Spam a stealth skill To make it so a melee class can Never hit them. I had a wizard do this to me, and he was +12R9 But he did this for nearly 20 minutes.

    I didnt have enough dmg to kill him before He spamed the skill to go invisible to hit me with spell after spell. Which was about 2 or 3 seconds in between. By then his charm ticked. I also think the skill breaks him out of any debuffs/Stuns. (could have been his weapon, but every time i stuned him in those 20 minutes, he broke out when he used it.)

    I seriously do not think wizards need a upgrade. To kill it, you'd have to do it within one shot, OR 3 seconds before the wizard can spam the stealth skill again.

    To be fair yer your right, sadly it does not purify and does have a bit of a longer cooldown than 3 seconds.

    Stacked with force of will, then can be a pain. 1v1 yes ok. If not ur in trouble wiz are not designed to take on more than one person tho and go down easily in most cases with that.

    I dono it's open from that point.
  • rudi666rudi666 Posts: 39 Arc User
    Wizards can Spam A stealth skill Yes, Spam a stealth skill To make it so a melee class can Never hit them. I had a wizard do this to me, and he was +12R9 But he did this for nearly 20 minutes.

    I didnt have enough dmg to kill him before He spamed the skill to go invisible to hit me with spell after spell. Which was about 2 or 3 seconds in between. By then his charm ticked. I also think the skill breaks him out of any debuffs/Stuns. (could have been his weapon, but every time i stuned him in those 20 minutes, he broke out when he used it.)

    I seriously do not think wizards need a upgrade. To kill it, you'd have to do it within one shot, OR 3 seconds before the wizard can spam the stealth skill again.

    agreed, the distance shrink is a good upgrade. it's 10 seconds though and 30 meter when demon.
    it also does not break you out from any debuffs/stuns. sometimes you can still distance shrink when frozen, but usually you shrink in air and are unable to do until the debuff runs out.

    the skills i wrote down are a suggestion of what i think are outdated skills that could be looked into. just like a lot of other classes have received an upgrade, or new classes having skills up-to-date with the current gameplay.

    Thanks, Lumpro
  • truelittlegirltruelittlegirl Posts: 15 Arc User
    I couldnt agree more to the title of this thread!

    This is not something that the community asks as unreasonable.
    When looking at the older classes, those of human, elf, and untamed.... their skills, CC, DMG, and overall how their skills play out ... they are so outdated leaving the new classes to run rampid.

    A simple update to their skill dmg, %'s, CC type, ect would go a far way to making pvp balanced again.

    for example balance it out a bit...... in ways such as:

    if an archer gets a reduction in dmg because they are too close to a target and dusks take less damage from range..... it would make sense for an archer then to take less damage if a target is within a specific range of them.

    just a little something something.
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