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Multi-Clienting Temporarily Disabled - Discussion

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  • So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.
  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.

    Raise your hand if you are slightly surprised.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • ramjotramjot Posts: 63 Arc User
    Is there anyone who could give us the server usage stats for the last 6 months so we can see the slide and reflect on the ride down?

    I'm hanging on and don't intend to get off until I'm thrown off.
  • silvasunrisesilvasunrise Posts: 21 Arc User
    One has to wonder at this point what their priority IS, when there are severe issues that have affected many people and continues to affect them. How many Flowsilver runs need to be three times as long because we don't want to abandon people who dced once and can't force log? It is pathetic. Not surprising, but pathetic.

    One starts to question WHY this issue is so different, so low priority, even within PWE's regular logic - the dragon orb fiasco was solved very quickly in comparison to this. And I doubt that cashing has recovered much considering the people who can no longer access their accounts at all, so this must be hitting PWE's bottom line as well. Seems very expensive long term for them versus just acting on it.
    ~Sylvaliana
    Leader of Borealis, Etherblade server.
  • tek1nigtek1nig Posts: 780 Arc User
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.​​
    VWjvQZ8.jpg
    Assassin - SyntherosX - 105, 105, 105 Calc : https://mypers.pw/13/#654396
    Loyal Perfect World Player 9 Year Vet.
    Youtube&LiveStream @ OROCx24

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • valdismanvaldisman Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.



    So not even allowed to run 2 clients judging from that ticket reply, which is what has always been allowed.

    RIP
    #kylehawkinsuck
    Moonshine drinker
    In a world of 10s, be an 11.
  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.​​

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?
  • tek1nigtek1nig Posts: 780 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​
    VWjvQZ8.jpg
    Assassin - SyntherosX - 105, 105, 105 Calc : https://mypers.pw/13/#654396
    Loyal Perfect World Player 9 Year Vet.
    Youtube&LiveStream @ OROCx24

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • johndoe069johndoe069 Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session.


    Thats how its always been since Arc was launched. 1 client per "active" account. ijs.
    The fact that they arent bothered to change that is a different issue, but its not something new that they have implimented /TOS changed.

    Not gonna get into loophole specifics but its never stopped anyone dual clienting in the past

    If you take a look at the " Arc" forums you will see it hasnt even been updated in years. Their "Patch notes" stopped over a year ago. Any app/software/game ALWAYS has a public post/log for patch notes stating exactly what was changed/updated
    Post edited by johndoe069 on
    key2_zps6ck5dj7q.png
  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol

    I do agree with you that trying to sue them over this would be dumb. However never understimate the power of QQ
    Sometimes being extremely vocal about something can beat even the most powerful companies, and PWE is not really the most powerful Company out there.
    I think a really good example of vocal people QQing over stuff and puting multi million dollars comanies on their knees would be the Anita Sarkeesian person (or whatever her name was).

    Several years ago this person decided to do some crowfunding in order to make YouTube videos about videogames being sexist, misogynist, etc, etc. Not only did she managed to get more money than what she needed (if I am not wrong) but also created some sort of movement of blinded fans that would take as a fact everything that she say, regardless of being 50% true and 50% nonsense.
    She also gained a lot of haters of course, people that apparently even sent threats to her. Little this haters knew that instead of scaring her, they were actually giving her more power. At the end this person not only managed to get her message heard, but also put several Companies on their knees trembling with fear of who will be the next target of her wrath. Some of this companies of course contact her as some sort of advisor...

    We even had guys like Shinji Mikami, main person behind the Resident Evil games (which in my opinion have several female characters that are not weak, not over sexualized and which in many case are strong leads.) giving explanations about how he hated one of the characters in the game for being weak and female at same time.

    Even Intel pay her as advisor and made some Project for 300 mil to boost her "cause"


    Now to be fair here she never forced them to do anything, but this companies would not want to be seen as sexist, racist, etc.

    So spending a few millions to keep her happy is actually a long time investment. And in some cases is even free advertising for them.

    This person was even able to go to the UN.... YES THE FREAKING UNITED NATIONS!! :D
    Ohh and fun fact, during that time the UN presented some research made by Broadband Commission that claimed that "violent videogames are turning the children into killing zombies"

    The UN had to apologize later for that research... :D


    The point I am trying to make here is that sometimes a poweful company may give in to people complains, not because they can't win, but because if the situation is embarrasing for them and gives them bad reputation. It is more easy to fix the problem fast in order to shut up the annoying people than to waste time in a court, lawyers and all the problems that said thing would bring them.


  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    eeepsilon wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    ​​

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol

    I do agree with you that trying to sue them over this would be dumb. However never understimate the power of QQ
    Sometimes being extremely vocal about something can beat even the most powerful companies, and PWE is not really the most powerful Company out there.
    I think a really good example of vocal people QQing over stuff and puting multi million dollars comanies on their knees would be the Anita Sarkeesian person (or whatever her name was).

    Several years ago this person decided to do some crowfunding in order to make YouTube videos about videogames being sexist, misogynist, etc, etc. Not only did she managed to get more money than what she needed (if I am not wrong) but also created some sort of movement of blinded fans that would take as a fact everything that she say, regardless of being 50% true and 50% nonsense.
    She also gained a lot of haters of course, people that apparently even sent threats to her. Little this haters knew that instead of scaring her, they were actually giving her more power. At the end this person not only managed to get her message heard, but also put several Companies on their knees trembling with fear of who will be the next target of her wrath. Some of this companies of course contact her as some sort of advisor...

    We even had guys like Shinji Mikami, main person behind the Resident Evil games (which in my opinion have several female characters that are not weak, not over sexualized and which in many case are strong leads.) giving explanations about how he hated one of the characters in the game for being weak and female at same time.

    Even Intel pay her as advisor and made some Project for 300 mil to boost her "cause"


    Now to be fair here she never forced them to do anything, but this companies would not want to be seen as sexist, racist, etc.

    So spending a few millions to keep her happy is actually a long time investment. And in some cases is even free advertising for them.

    This person was even able to go to the UN.... YES THE FREAKING UNITED NATIONS!! :D
    Ohh and fun fact, during that time the UN presented some research made by Broadband Commission that claimed that "violent videogames are turning the children into killing zombies"

    The UN had to apologize later for that research... :D


    The point I am trying to make here is that sometimes a poweful company may give in to people complains, not because they can't win, but because if the situation is embarrasing for them and gives them bad reputation. It is more easy to fix the problem fast in order to shut up the annoying people than to waste time in a court, lawyers and all the problems that said thing would bring them.


    You were basically explaining the power of a review in that post. Thats been happening for years before this former boiware employee made any sort of impact. Yes the power of a review could single-handedly destroy a company in a more effective way than a lawsuit could. It's because the average person today adapt the sheep-like mind complex. Meaning (as silly as this may sound) They need to be told what they like, and are unable to construct an original thought form. Why someone would "need" an review or someone else's opinion before they make an purchase for themselves is beyond me. But that's what we live in today. So take a site like METACRITIC for example, who prey's on peoples need to fit into the herd. Put a score on a game, and people will actually take that site's mere opinion as fact and justify it as a reason to purchase said game.

    The former boiware employee you mentioned earlier is trying to become one of those influences, If a game could pay the site to give them a 98-100 rating, Those sheep like people in theory would actually believe it's a awesome game and purchase it without knowing anything but that score. This is on the scale of millions. Which in turns leads to ultimate sales in video games. From nothing but a score alone.

    So if that user i quoted is not a major influence in reviews, PWI wont care about any action they take whatsoever. Without looking it up myself, if these forums are any indication, the game already has bad ratings. Im assuming It's not mainstream enough to get a major influence though, and what would be the point if it's not a good review? Truthfully, perfect world entertainment will make the game in their vision weather the players like it or not. a game surviving from the days of WoW up until now, is an amazing feat in itself. So if it was to die within this year or next year (which it wont) Then saying it's because of the users bickering is foolish, because Nothing last forever. But pwi might have At least 8 more years in them. If they dont then you can quote that part and put it in a sig or whatever. lol
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    @yayoblow#4632

    Agree with most of what you are saying, still perhaps the only thing that I have a bit of a doubt is this game lasting 8 years or more.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I do get your whole point about the game lasting many years which indeed it is a great achievement. But if we look at the amount of people left on each server and how many people quit not only every time PWE and PWCN mess up, but also every time a new hyped game comes out. I say that at most 2 - 3 years. I do understand that this game have a lot of loyal fan, many of which are cashers and big spenders and many of who are completly addict to the game.

    However as me and many others said in the past the fact that this is a MMO and that it have a really low population and that is constanstly losing players. I feel that we are in a situation in which there is not much to be done, this mainly due the fact that there is not much point in playing an MMO completly solo, even worse there is no point at all in spending large amounts of money in gear if players can't even use it along with or against other players.

    And that is the path I feel the game is going, this is not something that just started but also it is not something happening since 2008, as some people try to use as counter argument. It is more something that started after Elysium update I would say, maybe a bit later when both the devs and the Publisher start pushing changes in order to alienate pretty much anyone who is not a big spender, or at least anyone who is not a veteran player.

    And while I am pretty sure that there will be loyal people that will stay with this game till is shot down, there will be a moment in which the amount of money that cost to keep the game alive will be equal or more than what the whales are charging and that is when they will close it. The question I guess is when.

    Of course I can't say for sure but at least in the server I play there is currently 3 factions that you can consider populated, One of which is of course the strongest in the server with pretty much all the rich players in one place. The other 2 are a mix of OP people and a bit less geared players of course. If we look at what is left aside from those 3 you have maybe another 2 or 3 that are alf populated and that are pve, and I say alf populated 'cause a lot of the toons on those are alts from the other 3.
    If we look at everything else, what we have is nothing more than dead factions with 0 to 20 actives, and again you need to take out of those the alts from the other factions mentioned before.

    Now I understand that we can't base the server population just in factions, but if we take into consideration other stuff like: number of cat shops, numbers on NW and XNW, number of squads formed for any sort of stuff, number of people talking on wc for anything, numbers during PK, numbers on TW, people questing, Price of items related to gold, the Price of gold itself, etc.

    We can have an idea of the approximate number of players in the server, and I can tell you that is not really a big number on the one I play, and I don't think is much different in the other servers.

    I completly agree with you that they (PWE) are probably in a state that they don't give a damn about what people here think about them.
    But in my opinion that is something really bad on their end, after all we as player won't lose anything if they close the game, they are the ones that lose money not only on this game but also on the others that they manage. Heck is not even about closing the game or not, but the whole attitude they show actually is really bad advertising for them, people don't even need to talk bad about them here anymore, most of the people that quit will actually not give them any sort of feedback, they just uninstall and move on. Problem for PWE is however that most of those people and their Friends will avoid anything published by PWE, and that is a lot of money that they are losing, and everything just for acting the way they do.

    Even if the game was shot down tomorrow, if the company behind it had good support, stable servers, good comunication and somehow a good relation with their playerbase in general, people would think something like: "Hey is not their fault, we may try another of their games, after all they even refund some of the money that you spend as virtual currency for other games.."

    But in the case of PWE, most of their customers will just move to other Publisher with better well... everything. :D


    I know that I sound very negative towards this company lately, but believe it or not, I am not attacking them just to troll them or out of rage, In fact pretty much all my Friends left pwi already so I dont really have too much reasons to keep playing this game.
    Still I feel the only thing to help the game and they as a company is at least saying what they are doing wrong. It does not affect me in any way.
    It is just that as a person that actually worked in large companies in the past, specifically in human resources, support and also IT. I just feel that they are doing a lot of things wrong. And usually when a company have this sort of behavior is a really bad sign. And sadly many times the first ones to pay the Price are the employees that are low ranked, employees that many times are not at fault for poor management, communication and decision making of those who are above them.

    Sadly all I can do is give an opinion, nothing more.


  • saxrollsaxroll Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    Why someone would "need" an review or someone else's opinion before they make an purchase for themselves is beyond me.

    To avoid mistakes of others by not wasting time/money yourself? Not everybody is a kid with lots of free time. Reviews can be a great tool as long as you remember they are somebody elses opinion. But even if you disagree with the person on most things, you can find information on population of the game, how time/money consuming it is to play, publishers trackrecord, etc. Which are all useful on making your own decision if you want to try the game yourself. Everybody simply doesnt have the luxury of trying every game out there themselves, reviews will cut the list of games to try drastically, which for busy ppl is incredibly valuable.
    BlackList vs Frenzied 3/17

  • carolina2001carolina2001 Posts: 3 Arc User
    PWE doesn't care, they shut down 2 more of their games on June 5th; Jade Dynasty and Swordsman Online.
  • heero200heero200 Helper Extraordinary Posts: 3,908 Community Moderator
    Rite.

    Please keep this thread pn topic. If it's regarding another issue then make another.

    The constant off point and bashing will get posts removed.

    Thanks.
  • taliban#3445 taliban Posts: 35 Arc User
    etherblade server down?
  • tek1nigtek1nig Posts: 780 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol

    Threats are what you view it as.

    Holding the company accountable for united states consumer rights - is how I view it.
    ​​
    VWjvQZ8.jpg
    Assassin - SyntherosX - 105, 105, 105 Calc : https://mypers.pw/13/#654396
    Loyal Perfect World Player 9 Year Vet.
    Youtube&LiveStream @ OROCx24

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    Not being able to easily multiclient isn't the issue. The main issue is that force logging is absolutely impossible atm and that the server state is a complete mess...
  • baseaddressbaseaddress Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Forcelog is possible. They can add this feature very easy. It takes just 3-5(!)mins for them. It's possible to turn on it for yourself, and some ppl using it already.
  • ytubeavokeeytubeavokee Posts: 1 Arc User
    enlight us
  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol

    Threats are what you view it as.

    Holding the company accountable for united states consumer rights - is how I view it.
    ​​

    Just to put it into perspective, This version of Perfect world that we play here in the US, has it inside of their TOS agreement that they can virtually shut "your" account down with No warning or reason behind it whatsoever if they felt the need to do so.

    Consumer rights is not a manageable defense for a free game model. Even if it was, Their TOS that you agree to could just close your account and be done with it, No account would mean you are not a consumer to begin with. Im not even a laywer and im able to figure this out, Just imagine the absolute Best lawyers money could buy(in perfect worlds corner) devoting their actual time on this. In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it. All it did was make the 20 hours a day-seven days a week players not be able to easily put their squad of nine fully endgame characters in a squad and destroy everything. Weather they intended it that way or not.

    Basically what we signed up for says : follow all of the rules or be banned, nothing in this game is yours, what they could potentially do with theft of copyright, and agree to them being 100% authority. (meaning what they say is final) They only put these threads here to give it the illusion that they are interested in you guy's feedback. But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    Just to put it into perspective, This version of Perfect world that we play here in the US, has it inside of their TOS agreement that they can virtually shut "your" account down with No warning or reason behind it whatsoever if they felt the need to do so.

    Consumer rights is not a manageable defense for a free game model. Even if it was, Their TOS that you agree to could just close your account and be done with it, No account would mean you are not a consumer to begin with. Im not even a laywer and im able to figure this out, Just imagine the absolute Best lawyers money could buy(in perfect worlds corner) devoting their actual time on this. In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it. All it did was make the 20 hours a day-seven days a week players not be able to easily put their squad of nine fully endgame characters in a squad and destroy everything. Weather they intended it that way or not.

    Basically what we signed up for says : follow all of the rules or be banned, nothing in this game is yours, what they could potentially do with theft of copyright, and agree to them being 100% authority. (meaning what they say is final) They only put these threads here to give it the illusion that they are interested in you guy's feedback. But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?
    Indeed as you say when players create an account on one of the many online services that are floating on the net, they need to agree to the Terms of service and most of time follow the rules of the TOS or face a ban.

    However you are in a huge mistake if you believe that TOS > law. The moment that a person start spending money in one of those services, said service stop being free. And no, closing an account will not be done with it, remember that when someone spend money in a electronic service using electronic means, there is always a trace in the form of a credit card transaction, paypal transaction, and even those prepaid cards have a code that is linked to some store.


    Also not because someone write some random document and put TOS over it would mean that is completly legal and flawless. Heck by that logic you are aplaying, anyone could write the most crazy stuff and make you sign it, and that will be legal just because you sign it at will?

    Also:
    In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it.

    You realize that the ones paying their business are the players and not the other way arround??

    Players do the favor to them, specially the whales that trow hundreds or even thousands at them each month..
    I said this maybe a hundred of times already but some people here really seem to be in some sort of alternate reality, thinking that they let you play 'cause they are philanthropists or something.

    So no, it is not as you said. It is the opposite: They are lucky that after all the nonsense they been pulling, there are still people willing to spend money and keep playing.
    But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?
    The how good or bad someone can do that is Irrelevant, what matters is how much money they spend and the willingness to keep trowing more money at them.

    If your customer was someone very dumb, annoying and ugly, but said person spend 2000 per month in your business.
    Would you care about the person being dumb, annoying and ugly or about how much money he or she is spending in your company?


    Would his or her stupidity and uglyness be a factor for you to ignore the anger of said customer and risk to lose those 2000 each month? :D


    And yes, I still think that trying to sue them for something like multi clienting being not completly functional would be dumb, even doing that for the whole problem they have with the servers crashing would be excessive and most likely fail.

    However don't go saying things like because they have a TOS, said TOS is absolute and they are not accountable about anything, just because people sign it at will.
    A TOS is not perfect, even with the best lawyers making it, in fact many of those documents tend to have a lot of legal voids and inconsistencies, not only because sometimes companies intentionally make them that way, but also because countries laws may change, and something that was legal yesterday may not be legal tomorrow.


    At the end the whole problem is not even about the multi client thing anymore, people still is able to do that, so the guys you are mentioning with 9 or 10 r9 alts soloing everything are still able to exploit and abuse everything, they just kill arc now…
    Even those russian bots are still login with the whole forced arc thing.

    I think that the real problem now is that they didn't even code the whole thing well, they could have just let forced login enabled by default and part of the problem solved. Also the servers crashing almost in a daily basis and they completly ignoring everything is not nice at all. It is pretty much what Joe said here:


    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Not being able to easily multiclient isn't the issue. The main issue is that force logging is absolutely impossible atm and that the server state is a complete mess...

  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    eeepsilon wrote: »
    Just to put it into perspective, This version of Perfect world that we play here in the US, has it inside of their TOS agreement that they can virtually shut "your" account down with No warning or reason behind it whatsoever if they felt the need to do so.

    Consumer rights is not a manageable defense for a free game model. Even if it was, Their TOS that you agree to could just close your account and be done with it, No account would mean you are not a consumer to begin with. Im not even a laywer and im able to figure this out, Just imagine the absolute Best lawyers money could buy(in perfect worlds corner) devoting their actual time on this. In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it. All it did was make the 20 hours a day-seven days a week players not be able to easily put their squad of nine fully endgame characters in a squad and destroy everything. Weather they intended it that way or not.

    Basically what we signed up for says : follow all of the rules or be banned, nothing in this game is yours, what they could potentially do with theft of copyright, and agree to them being 100% authority. (meaning what they say is final) They only put these threads here to give it the illusion that they are interested in you guy's feedback. But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?
    Indeed as you say when players create an account on one of the many online services that are floating on the net, they need to agree to the Terms of service and most of time follow the rules of the TOS or face a ban.

    However you are in a huge mistake if you believe that TOS > law. The moment that a person start spending money in one of those services, said service stop being free. And no, closing an account will not be done with it, remember that when someone spend money in a electronic service using electronic means, there is always a trace in the form of a credit card transaction, paypal transaction, and even those prepaid cards have a code that is linked to some store.


    Also not because someone write some random document and put TOS over it would mean that is completly legal and flawless. Heck by that logic you are aplaying, anyone could write the most crazy stuff and make you sign it, and that will be legal just because you sign it at will?

    Also:
    In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it.

    You realize that the ones paying their business are the players and not the other way arround??

    Players do the favor to them, specially the whales that trow hundreds or even thousands at them each month..
    I said this maybe a hundred of times already but some people here really seem to be in some sort of alternate reality, thinking that they let you play 'cause they are philanthropists or something.

    So no, it is not as you said. It is the opposite: They are lucky that after all the nonsense they been pulling, there are still people willing to spend money and keep playing.
    But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?
    The how good or bad someone can do that is Irrelevant, what matters is how much money they spend and the willingness to keep trowing more money at them.

    If your customer was someone very dumb, annoying and ugly, but said person spend 2000 per month in your business.
    Would you care about the person being dumb, annoying and ugly or about how much money he or she is spending in your company?


    Would his or her stupidity and uglyness be a factor for you to ignore the anger of said customer and risk to lose those 2000 each month? :D


    And yes, I still think that trying to sue them for something like multi clienting being not completly functional would be dumb, even doing that for the whole problem they have with the servers crashing would be excessive and most likely fail.

    However don't go saying things like because they have a TOS, said TOS is absolute and they are not accountable about anything, just because people sign it at will.
    A TOS is not perfect, even with the best lawyers making it, in fact many of those documents tend to have a lot of legal voids and inconsistencies, not only because sometimes companies intentionally make them that way, but also because countries laws may change, and something that was legal yesterday may not be legal tomorrow.


    At the end the whole problem is not even about the multi client thing anymore, people still is able to do that, so the guys you are mentioning with 9 or 10 r9 alts soloing everything are still able to exploit and abuse everything, they just kill arc now…
    Even those russian bots are still login with the whole forced arc thing.

    I think that the real problem now is that they didn't even code the whole thing well, they could have just let forced login enabled by default and part of the problem solved. Also the servers crashing almost in a daily basis and they completly ignoring everything is not nice at all. It is pretty much what Joe said here:


    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Not being able to easily multiclient isn't the issue. The main issue is that force logging is absolutely impossible atm and that the server state is a complete mess...

    Please do forgive me, i just re read what i typed and i left some things out, and i guess it looked overall unclear. What perfect world sells is a currency called Zen or Gold. The gold is 100% yours because you paid for it. However it's completely useless unless you spend it in their online store. And everything inside of the game is 100% theirs, be it armor or cash shop items even the account. The only right you have to is the gold itself that is useless that you can not legally sell. You might be thinking about the auction house right? But if you noticed, they put a tax on any gold that is put in there and once again, They ask you if you "agree to it" before you do it. Not saying it's right or wrong, But legally speaking, things such as hearing "player agreed to it, here is the proof" is hard to combat. By putting your gold in the AH, it in turns makes it their property again. They put little things like this up in free to play models. Im sorry but i tend to ramble on, But basically, you only pay and have legal rights to a currency called gold that you can only spend in their store,on their legally owned in game items. Not anything else in the game

    The tos isnt more powerful than the law, But in court any type of documentation is called evidence. With paper or digitally. PWI did not put a gun to anyone's head and make them click "accept to our TOS" But they have documentation that you of free will choose to agree.
  • tek1nigtek1nig Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol

    Threats are what you view it as.

    Holding the company accountable for united states consumer rights - is how I view it.

    Just to put it into perspective, This version of Perfect world that we play here in the US, has it inside of their TOS agreement that they can virtually shut "your" account down with No warning or reason behind it whatsoever if they felt the need to do so.

    Consumer rights is not a manageable defense for a free game model. Even if it was, Their TOS that you agree to could just close your account and be done with it, No account would mean you are not a consumer to begin with. Im not even a laywer and im able to figure this out, Just imagine the absolute Best lawyers money could buy(in perfect worlds corner) devoting their actual time on this. In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it. All it did was make the 20 hours a day-seven days a week players not be able to easily put their squad of nine fully endgame characters in a squad and destroy everything. Weather they intended it that way or not.

    Basically what we signed up for says : follow all of the rules or be banned, nothing in this game is yours, what they could potentially do with theft of copyright, and agree to them being 100% authority. (meaning what they say is final) They only put these threads here to give it the illusion that they are interested in you guy's feedback. But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?

    Unlucky for you and for PWE their company must abide by United states consumer laws regardless of TOS points you brought up. I stand as a consumer who's had to use the BBB before with PWE to great success. So you can't tell me anything to the contrary when I've already handled similar issues before.

    Experience. Diligence. Fighting for what's Right.

    NOTE: Thank you to the other experienced players who attempted to help this player understand simple economics.

    -SyntherosX-
    ​​
    VWjvQZ8.jpg
    Assassin - SyntherosX - 105, 105, 105 Calc : https://mypers.pw/13/#654396
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  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.
    tek1nig wrote: »
    tek1nig wrote: »
    So, I have been talking with a senior GM about this exact issue. Here's what they have said to me, Quoted.

    "Hello,

    Thank you for your report about the past multi client request. We do apologize for any extended delays. Unfortunately, after checking with the other staff involved, the multi client capability is not priority for development at this time. Currently, we don't have any specific dates available, but assume it may be a few months before that is considered and brought back to the client. As for now, users are technically limited and expected to having only one PWI account run per active Arc client session. We're very sorry for being unable to speed up the process for any multi client features sooner. If you have any other issues, please let us know.

    Regards,
    Sailor Mu
    Senior Game Master
    Perfect World Entertainment
    http://support.arcgames.com/"


    So, in short, this isn't even a priority at all. Not even getting considered. Going to be months more until it is even considered again. And even then, who even knows if it will ever come back.


    I'll be making 1 last ticket. If the results are as unsavory as this then it will be time to take drastic action.

    Muhaha. Drastic action? What could you possibly do that will have a drastic result to PWI or yourself for that matter?

    As a consumer we have rights. Legal rights. What can I do? - What I'm known for doing.

    Rallying and organizing. I'm in talks with GM's right now in the ticketing system in regards to the current issue of lack of transparency on this issue.

    Think logically, What makes you think you are any kind of threat whatsoever to Perfect world entertainment. They are a Billion dollar company as of 2018, And lets say legal action did enter the picture, what makes you think they would even entertain it from you specifically? IF they did (which they wouldn't) but if they did, what makes you think you could afford better laywers than they could theoretically hire? You think cause you see it in movies where a guy fights the system and rebels that it would work in real life?

    This is mostly a follow up, But i saw in the first half of that post that you were in talks with a GM, but i continued to read that "in ticketing system" What makes you think they make your ticket a priority over the other thousands that they could be receiving at the same time?

    Theres been talk around the forums for a while now that perfect world allegedly does not care about it's player base. what makes you think you are somehow different from the ones in that accusation? Take it a step further then that, what makes you think that pwi even distinguish you from the other players who allegedly could have spent more or the same amount as you? If you are a money spender on this game, did you think you were the only one? lol

    Threats are what you view it as.

    Holding the company accountable for united states consumer rights - is how I view it.

    Just to put it into perspective, This version of Perfect world that we play here in the US, has it inside of their TOS agreement that they can virtually shut "your" account down with No warning or reason behind it whatsoever if they felt the need to do so.

    Consumer rights is not a manageable defense for a free game model. Even if it was, Their TOS that you agree to could just close your account and be done with it, No account would mean you are not a consumer to begin with. Im not even a laywer and im able to figure this out, Just imagine the absolute Best lawyers money could buy(in perfect worlds corner) devoting their actual time on this. In fact, when you look at it we should be lucky that a multi clienting was the only thing they removed. We should actually be thanking them for removing it. All it did was make the 20 hours a day-seven days a week players not be able to easily put their squad of nine fully endgame characters in a squad and destroy everything. Weather they intended it that way or not.

    Basically what we signed up for says : follow all of the rules or be banned, nothing in this game is yours, what they could potentially do with theft of copyright, and agree to them being 100% authority. (meaning what they say is final) They only put these threads here to give it the illusion that they are interested in you guy's feedback. But if you ask me, I think half of these players cant even add correctly without a smart phone. Who would seriously consider or care what they think anyway?

    Unlucky for you and for PWE their company must abide by United states consumer laws regardless of TOS points you brought up. I stand as a consumer who's had to use the BBB before with PWE to great success. So you can't tell me anything to the contrary when I've already handled similar issues before.

    Experience. Diligence. Fighting for what's Right.

    NOTE: Thank you to the other experienced players who attempted to help this player understand simple economics.

    -SyntherosX-
    ​​

    Ah okay go right ahead then. Defy all Logic and reason. And the real world for that matter. lol
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    @yayoblow#4632
    I understand your point and indeed is true. If a person charge any sort of digital currency whatever it is in this game or one from another company, that person is buying said digital currency and not the account or the items inside the games. As long as the costumer gets her/his currency and at least is able to use it, said customer have not much to complain, even if the server or support are bad or even if the company push changes to the game the the customer doesn't like.

    However my point is that if a company (not gonna name any to no get the wrath of the mods and gms) prevent a costumer from even geting or in some cases using what he bought for no reason and they try to use something like "Our TOS say that we can shot you down at any moment for not reason at all" In that particular case a TOS will not protect the company.

    Now to be clear in what I am trying to say:
    Let's say that a guy charge 5000 in a week, he get r9 and a lot of cash shop items. Then, one day he start violating the TOS, lets say harasing people, cheating in game, trying to sell accounts, etc, etc. This person is reported and perma baned. He is done and most likely no court would even take his case into account, after all this person not only got the gold that he paid for, he was also able to use the service and even worse, he violate the TOS that just as you said, he choose to agree.


    But now lets make another example: Lets say another guy charge exact same amount, but he is not even able to get a gold, just while he is transfering the zhen to gold it randomly poof from his account due some random server crash. So the guy decide to ask for support. But the person on support is having a really bad day, so instead of looking into his problem, support goes full ballistic on him and perma ban the cutomer without a valid reason, just 'cause their TOS say they can.
    Remember, this fictional customer is not like the first one, he did not haras anyone, he did not violate any rule, he just asked for help in a very polite way, and instead of help he got a ban and lost all money that put in to the game.

    Do you think that person would just bite the bullet and not do anything?

    I understand that if a person get what he paid for and do something wrong, there is not much they can complain about.

    Even if a person put money on the game, and game get closed a few monhs later and even if they decided to not refund anything to anyone. Just as you said before, the person got his gold and thats it.


    But my whole point is that not becuase their TOS say they can "ban you for no reason" It would mean that if some dude trow money at them like crazy and they just decide to ban him 'cause YOLO, they should be allowed to do so. In a case like that the person would not just move on, specially someone that spend thousands on a game.

    Of course in most of the cases the TOS will be valid, and even if is not, most people would just move on and play other game. Not many people would go to court for a small amount of money, especially taking into account that in most cases the cost of all the legal stuff you need to do will be higher than what they spent on a game. Even worse, if the person is not from the US or Europe, it would be even harder to do something against them, after all laws in South America or Asia as example are not the same as in the USA or Europe, in fact this Publisher doesn't even have office in some of those places.


    Of course and just as I said many times before: something like this whole thread is not a valid reason to a court or any sort of legal action against them, it is just bad for their business because it make them look bad and lose playerbase.
  • yayoblow#4632 yayoblow Posts: 66 Arc User
    eeepsilon wrote: »
    @yayoblow#4632
    I understand your point and indeed is true. If a person charge any sort of digital currency whatever it is in this game or one from another company, that person is buying said digital currency and not the account or the items inside the games. As long as the costumer gets her/his currency and at least is able to use it, said customer have not much to complain, even if the server or support are bad or even if the company push changes to the game the the customer doesn't like.

    However my point is that if a company (not gonna name any to no get the wrath of the mods and gms) prevent a costumer from even geting or in some cases using what he bought for no reason and they try to use something like "Our TOS say that we can shot you down at any moment for not reason at all" In that particular case a TOS will not protect the company.

    Now to be clear in what I am trying to say:
    Let's say that a guy charge 5000 in a week, he get r9 and a lot of cash shop items. Then, one day he start violating the TOS, lets say harasing people, cheating in game, trying to sell accounts, etc, etc. This person is reported and perma baned. He is done and most likely no court would even take his case into account, after all this person not only got the gold that he paid for, he was also able to use the service and even worse, he violate the TOS that just as you said, he choose to agree.


    But now lets make another example: Lets say another guy charge exact same amount, but he is not even able to get a gold, just while he is transfering the zhen to gold it randomly poof from his account due some random server crash. So the guy decide to ask for support. But the person on support is having a really bad day, so instead of looking into his problem, support goes full ballistic on him and perma ban the cutomer without a valid reason, just 'cause their TOS say they can.
    Remember, this fictional customer is not like the first one, he did not haras anyone, he did not violate any rule, he just asked for help in a very polite way, and instead of help he got a ban and lost all money that put in to the game.

    Do you think that person would just bite the bullet and not do anything?

    I understand that if a person get what he paid for and do something wrong, there is not much they can complain about.

    Even if a person put money on the game, and game get closed a few monhs later and even if they decided to not refund anything to anyone. Just as you said before, the person got his gold and thats it.


    But my whole point is that not becuase their TOS say they can "ban you for no reason" It would mean that if some dude trow money at them like crazy and they just decide to ban him 'cause YOLO, they should be allowed to do so. In a case like that the person would not just move on, specially someone that spend thousands on a game.

    Of course in most of the cases the TOS will be valid, and even if is not, most people would just move on and play other game. Not many people would go to court for a small amount of money, especially taking into account that in most cases the cost of all the legal stuff you need to do will be higher than what they spent on a game. Even worse, if the person is not from the US or Europe, it would be even harder to do something against them, after all laws in South America or Asia as example are not the same as in the USA or Europe, in fact this Publisher doesn't even have office in some of those places.


    Of course and just as I said many times before: something like this whole thread is not a valid reason to a court or any sort of legal action against them, it is just bad for their business because it make them look bad and lose playerbase.

    Those are good examples, But check this out:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/clicks-bind-ways-users-agree-online-terms-service

    I take no credit for the creation in that article. Basically a TOS is a Legal agreement. If Legal action is taken, Then the Legal agreement will be a smoking Gun. Assuming the one against the company hasnt found a Loop hole, or a contradiction of the section of the TOS they violated.

    I can see you think logically, So this might not apply to you, But if legal action was to occur, and you say the company is to be held accountable, The defense is going to want to know how exactly they are wrong, and what law does it violate. For example You couldn't just say "consumer rights" You would have to prove exactly what part the TOS violates consumer rights.
  • tek1nigtek1nig Posts: 780 Arc User
    eeepsilon wrote: »
    @yayoblow#4632
    I understand your point and indeed is true. If a person charge any sort of digital currency whatever it is in this game or one from another company, that person is buying said digital currency and not the account or the items inside the games. As long as the costumer gets her/his currency and at least is able to use it, said customer have not much to complain, even if the server or support are bad or even if the company push changes to the game the the customer doesn't like.

    However my point is that if a company (not gonna name any to no get the wrath of the mods and gms) prevent a costumer from even geting or in some cases using what he bought for no reason and they try to use something like "Our TOS say that we can shot you down at any moment for not reason at all" In that particular case a TOS will not protect the company.

    Now to be clear in what I am trying to say:
    Let's say that a guy charge 5000 in a week, he get r9 and a lot of cash shop items. Then, one day he start violating the TOS, lets say harasing people, cheating in game, trying to sell accounts, etc, etc. This person is reported and perma baned. He is done and most likely no court would even take his case into account, after all this person not only got the gold that he paid for, he was also able to use the service and even worse, he violate the TOS that just as you said, he choose to agree.


    But now lets make another example: Lets say another guy charge exact same amount, but he is not even able to get a gold, just while he is transfering the zhen to gold it randomly poof from his account due some random server crash. So the guy decide to ask for support. But the person on support is having a really bad day, so instead of looking into his problem, support goes full ballistic on him and perma ban the cutomer without a valid reason, just 'cause their TOS say they can.
    Remember, this fictional customer is not like the first one, he did not haras anyone, he did not violate any rule, he just asked for help in a very polite way, and instead of help he got a ban and lost all money that put in to the game.

    Do you think that person would just bite the bullet and not do anything?

    I understand that if a person get what he paid for and do something wrong, there is not much they can complain about.

    Even if a person put money on the game, and game get closed a few monhs later and even if they decided to not refund anything to anyone. Just as you said before, the person got his gold and thats it.


    But my whole point is that not becuase their TOS say they can "ban you for no reason" It would mean that if some dude trow money at them like crazy and they just decide to ban him 'cause YOLO, they should be allowed to do so. In a case like that the person would not just move on, specially someone that spend thousands on a game.

    Of course in most of the cases the TOS will be valid, and even if is not, most people would just move on and play other game. Not many people would go to court for a small amount of money, especially taking into account that in most cases the cost of all the legal stuff you need to do will be higher than what they spent on a game. Even worse, if the person is not from the US or Europe, it would be even harder to do something against them, after all laws in South America or Asia as example are not the same as in the USA or Europe, in fact this Publisher doesn't even have office in some of those places.


    Of course and just as I said many times before: something like this whole thread is not a valid reason to a court or any sort of legal action against them, it is just bad for their business because it make them look bad and lose playerbase.

    Those are good examples, But check this out:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/clicks-bind-ways-users-agree-online-terms-service

    I take no credit for the creation in that article. Basically a TOS is a Legal agreement. If Legal action is taken, Then the Legal agreement will be a smoking Gun. Assuming the one against the company hasnt found a Loop hole, or a contradiction of the section of the TOS they violated.

    I can see you think logically, So this might not apply to you, But if legal action was to occur, and you say the company is to be held accountable, The defense is going to want to know how exactly they are wrong, and what law does it violate. For example You couldn't just say "consumer rights" You would have to prove exactly what part the TOS violates consumer rights.

    Received response today after a few weeks of back and forth that my ticket was escalated to PWE Management Team. Their responses seem very promising but I don't feel comfortable with the disconnect that seems to be 100% due to PWC putting us on the backburner.

    In other words, this change was directly requested from by PWE to PWC(Wanmei) and as such requires their direct interaction to revert any changes.

    I wonder if there's any way for us to communicate with PWC - Seems worth investigating.
    ​​
    VWjvQZ8.jpg
    Assassin - SyntherosX - 105, 105, 105 Calc : https://mypers.pw/13/#654396
    Loyal Perfect World Player 9 Year Vet.
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    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • eeepsiloneeepsilon Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    eeepsilon wrote: »
    @yayoblow#4632
    I understand your point and indeed is true. If a person charge any sort of digital currency whatever it is in this game or one from another company, that person is buying said digital currency and not the account or the items inside the games. As long as the costumer gets her/his currency and at least is able to use it, said customer have not much to complain, even if the server or support are bad or even if the company push changes to the game the the customer doesn't like.

    However my point is that if a company (not gonna name any to no get the wrath of the mods and gms) prevent a costumer from even geting or in some cases using what he bought for no reason and they try to use something like "Our TOS say that we can shot you down at any moment for not reason at all" In that particular case a TOS will not protect the company.

    Now to be clear in what I am trying to say:
    Let's say that a guy charge 5000 in a week, he get r9 and a lot of cash shop items. Then, one day he start violating the TOS, lets say harasing people, cheating in game, trying to sell accounts, etc, etc. This person is reported and perma baned. He is done and most likely no court would even take his case into account, after all this person not only got the gold that he paid for, he was also able to use the service and even worse, he violate the TOS that just as you said, he choose to agree.


    But now lets make another example: Lets say another guy charge exact same amount, but he is not even able to get a gold, just while he is transfering the zhen to gold it randomly poof from his account due some random server crash. So the guy decide to ask for support. But the person on support is having a really bad day, so instead of looking into his problem, support goes full ballistic on him and perma ban the cutomer without a valid reason, just 'cause their TOS say they can.
    Remember, this fictional customer is not like the first one, he did not haras anyone, he did not violate any rule, he just asked for help in a very polite way, and instead of help he got a ban and lost all money that put in to the game.

    Do you think that person would just bite the bullet and not do anything?

    I understand that if a person get what he paid for and do something wrong, there is not much they can complain about.

    Even if a person put money on the game, and game get closed a few monhs later and even if they decided to not refund anything to anyone. Just as you said before, the person got his gold and thats it.


    But my whole point is that not becuase their TOS say they can "ban you for no reason" It would mean that if some dude trow money at them like crazy and they just decide to ban him 'cause YOLO, they should be allowed to do so. In a case like that the person would not just move on, specially someone that spend thousands on a game.

    Of course in most of the cases the TOS will be valid, and even if is not, most people would just move on and play other game. Not many people would go to court for a small amount of money, especially taking into account that in most cases the cost of all the legal stuff you need to do will be higher than what they spent on a game. Even worse, if the person is not from the US or Europe, it would be even harder to do something against them, after all laws in South America or Asia as example are not the same as in the USA or Europe, in fact this Publisher doesn't even have office in some of those places.


    Of course and just as I said many times before: something like this whole thread is not a valid reason to a court or any sort of legal action against them, it is just bad for their business because it make them look bad and lose playerbase.

    Those are good examples, But check this out:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/clicks-bind-ways-users-agree-online-terms-service

    I take no credit for the creation in that article. Basically a TOS is a Legal agreement. If Legal action is taken, Then the Legal agreement will be a smoking Gun. Assuming the one against the company hasnt found a Loop hole, or a contradiction of the section of the TOS they violated.

    I can see you think logically, So this might not apply to you, But if legal action was to occur, and you say the company is to be held accountable, The defense is going to want to know how exactly they are wrong, and what law does it violate. For example You couldn't just say "consumer rights" You would have to prove exactly what part the TOS violates consumer rights.

    And that is precisely why I said before that in most cases people would not even think to sue them, because it would be a real pain for your average person to go against PWE or any other large company, and also in most cases the company will win without much effort.
    But again, I think there could be some really rare cases in which a person can actually beat a big company, specially when there is money involved. That is why my second example in my previous post clearly stated that the fictional customer in that example would have been completly denied from the gold that he bought, In a case like that, the company would pretty much be stealing from the costumer, since said costumer would not even be able to see the gold and much less use it.
    Correct me if I am wrong (or if they changed TOS, since long time I dont read it) but I don't remember the TOS saying something like: "We are entitled to not give you the virtual money that you pay us for and take your real money for no reason at all while sending to f yourself"

    If a situation like that happen, which is almost imposible since no matter how incompetent pwe is, when is about money at least they know their thing, they could be accountable for fraud, after all they would be taking money from the person without giving what said person paid for (the gold).
    As I said before it would not be about some random dude charging, geting his gold, then breaking rules and being baned and losing his money, In that case as you already know, their tos protect them. Heck even if the guy did nothing wrong get baned for no reason, as long as he was able to get the gold and at least login to the game a couple of times, that person already got what he paid for, even if is seen by many as a scam.

    All I am saying is that in some very specific cases a TOS can be completly destroyed by a court, specially if the complainant manages to prove that the company was trying to or used said TOS maliciously.


    Now to be completly fair with PWE: I am aware of certain real cases in which they could have sent the customer to hell, but after a few weeks or months of arguing and exchanging messages with the person, support did help. A particular case I remember was a certain archer from old raging tide server that literally NPCD his r9s2+12 bow while he was drunk.. (yeah s2, it was long time ago). At first support people refused to help, but after several tickets, this guy got a normal r9 bow + the mats for s2+ orbs and all stuff needed to remake said bow.
    Now of course in that case the guy was at fault since he made the mistake, but PWE people at the time was knowledgeable about the game and reasonable enough to understand that even if it was the player's fault, said player had no way to get weapon back, since you can only make r9 once, they also knew that said player was trowing thousands at them each month and it would have been really dumb to ignore him just 'cause tos say that items inside game are player's responsibility and don't belong to them.


    What I think is that in a case in which a player lose money for no reason, PWE most likely would not ignore the person, and this not even for the legal consequences that they may face but more for the fact that would be very dumb to ignore someone that is trowing money at you and that it most likely will keep trowing money as long as he or she get what paid for.

    Last but no least, still somehow unrelated to online mmos TOS. There is a certain case in which customers actually won against a large company, this was a really know class-action lawsuit against the PS3 company (not naming them to avoid mod/gm judgement) for removing the Other OS feature during a firmware update. Of course we canot compare something like that with an online game TOS, this mainly due the fact that people bought the console, however there is still the fact that this firmware update was downloaded either by connecting to their psn or by buying a game and updating firmware that way. In both ways you are somehow accepting their TOS.

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