Is there any point gearing up? - SINS NEED A NERF

hiitsmeguys

@kalystconquerer#0876 would like some input here please, at least acknowledge that you're reading this and know that there is a big problem. This is the biggest issue currently facing this game, forget everything else, updates, inflation, gold lock, text issues etc. This issue needs to be top of the list any and every time you make contact with the chinese devs.

I've played this game a damn long time, and been maxed out all along. But now the game is to the point where there is literally no point trying to PVP unless you're a sin. 6-7 yrs playing this and i haven't started to look for a new game to play until now.

PWI needs to stop trying to keep everyone happy, and adding buffs to fix class imbalances. The 2 tick defense charms, the crit passives, the def passives, charm cooldown all worked in the wrong way in the past, helping to make certain classes way too OP and others way too weak. PWI needs to outright nerf broken classes like any other game does.

Thanks Kaly, hopefully we can count on you.

jsxshadow

@blazerboy Maybe my videos have the opposite effect of what I wanted. People don't see me insta-killing ppl with my sin hence they assume it's ok. What ppl forget is that my sin is just at a measly 36k base damage with 211 Att lvl and 1823 spirit. What my sin could be at is 50k base damage and 280 attack level...and yeah with that, anything would just explode.

The catch is..any other class with full devil stones and max base damage can be OP too and kill ppl really fast..but if they get caught even once without genie..they nearly insta-die..esp if a sin is on them xDD sins can just evade most things with tidal and deaden/Stealth help them to stay alive. So if you have enough damage as a sin...you can kill at least 1 person during tidal, kite until tidal is ready again and kill the next. Rinse and repeat and your enemies need to be friggin lucky to even get the chance of killing you. Every other class attempting this? Get Paralyzes, purged, debuffed -> dead. Instantly. You might luck and kill one if gear dif is massive..but then, once all your stuff is in CD, you are nearly 100% dead. GG. No stealth/tidal to regenerate your CDs.

wildlotus#2209

I think in the new expansion, a lot of classes are going to be rebalanced. Archers seem to get a lot of increase dmg and time duration in their glyph effects. Most classes got better, while some classes got things taken away from them.
Check out the news on Feature Spotlight #3, Skills adjustment.

Whatever the changes, some people will still cry. If you really are not happy with what you invested in all this time, just play a new toon, instead of being bitter everyday.

jsxshadow

wildlotus#2209 wrote: »

I think in the new expansion, a lot of classes are going to be rebalanced. Archers seem to get a lot of increase dmg and time duration in their glyph effects. Most classes got better, while some classes got things taken away from them.
Check out the news on Feature Spotlight #3, Skills adjustment.

Whatever the changes, some people will still cry. If you really are not happy with what you invested in all this time, just play a new toon, instead of being bitter everyday.

Well..the only reasonable fix in this update is making the Mystic Ulti stronger..since it was by far the weakest of them all and even won't be that strong after the update..but at least can be used in 1v1 to avoid some CC.

Other than that...the BM fix for ulti is OK. That's reasonable. The glyph skills for most classes are ok-ish too, esp since they now allow for more Glyph-bonus combinations. Good.

BUT! Sins, Barbs and Seeker especially get such insane massive boosts AGAIN that you really have to question the sanity of the CN Devs. They only seem to massively push those classes that are already insanely powerful, not just in 1v1, no! in every single form of PvP. I can tell you that Barbs, at least as long as Cornered Beasts 60+ second Faith is up, will be FAR, FAR, FARRRRR more powerful than sins in 1v1 and Mass-PvP and given enough damage..they might be able to 1v3 ppl too or even kill entire groups, alone, in Mass-PvP.

Smart Seeker will be nearly immortal after that update as well and are, given you have full control over that class, already the absolute top class since they get offensive power from being extremely defensive..which is pretty dumb. Nearly as dumb as Sins but as a seeker..if you are not a good player, you will still die nearly instantly...so not a big issue. Not many good players around anyways. Same is true for Barbs which imho is the only reason why they implement such BS updates in the first place. Is CNs skill-level really that insanely LOW so that they constantly fix the wrong classes? Are there no ppl in CN able to abuse those updates and show them how broken it is? I just don't get it.

As for PWI..the only really balanced classes atm are: Archer, Wizards, Psychics, Mystics and Stormbringer. That is ofc if you come prepared in 1v1 and know how to counter all their shenanigans. In Mass-PvP any class can get caught up in a massive debuff/paralyze cycle and get killed nearly instantly...cept ofc if you have tidal up =P +coughcough+ sorry, catching a cold

Do you notice which classes I did not mention? Now look at the news-post and tell me which classes get the biggest upgrades

blazerboy

@jsxshadow compared to the gear of actually focused players (players who aren’t gearing multi toons) you sin is totally pathetically geared and can easily deleted Jsod ppl with 36k base phy atk? Lmfao sins with a good chart rb 2 can get well over 46k which YES 10k base damage makes a world of difference in classes so many ppl forget. The best way to kill a sin at this point is to be able to force their saves while tidal up saves like ulti mainly but genie and pot are important aswell then once tidal is down and no untraceable offensive skill (seriously why is this even a thing?) and you just need to cc them while maintaining damage and normally the sin goes down. To do this you will probably need to massively outgear said sin because you will likely be Jsod or higher to have a chance to survive the sins onslaught without burning most of your saves but also have a topend starchart to supplement the damage. Devil any class v devil sins most likely the sin wins with just a bypass it’s extremely rare anything but a sin bypasesbppl. Basically ppl who actually see your sin is taking as just another sin winning fight not actually paying attention to literally the geargap which is the main point. A sine it gears that takes barely 7b most of which is just r9 cost barely has any efforts winning. Have 36k and vit stone on an archer duskblade or any other dd in mass pvp let’s see how effective you are agianst endgamers.. You’re literally just a fly but sin? Nah you have a good chance to spike bypass them ggwp add a purge wep and welp you can easily farm kills.

@wildlotus#2209 honestly I’ll what you feel is a “rebalance” yes skills are tweaked but balance? I disagree Sins barbs and seekers get boosted massively while every other class gets minor chances. This doesn’t call rebalance to me it just says sins get stronger but 2 bulkier classes get stronger aswell and that barb faith 60 second thing have you been hit by a deity barb Armageddon? Yeah no barbs didn’t need this lol. At this point release 1 new class to hunt only sins sins let ppl reroll and we all laugh as gms make another broken masterpiece

jsxshadow

@blazerboy Exactly. My sin currently doesnt have damage and is also squishy af.

When I am done with my gears and land at 48k base damage selfbuffed, 33k+ pdef and mdef, 30k HP and 40 more def level....welp gg wp. Less pressure on me, way more damage on the target. Add a purge weapon and I will be able to basically kill anything on my own with a low chance of dying without massive focus/luck. Maybe then ppl will realize how insanely broken that class is

blazerboy

https://youtu.be/ZG9UsDhTcgU

13:00-13:35 lmfao “sin damage isn’t broken” or “sins are fine it’s duskblade that’s broken” lmfao... 74k okay lol most of these ppl have g17.5 def weapons okay lmfao. This video got me pretty sad for the future of this game watching so many bypasses.

@jsxshadow GGWP

tabaloul

a good step forward would be to remove all defense charms in this game,
i believe people don't give that too much weight but assassins due to tidal and the inability to be CCed, have defense charms always up, providing them a permanent 67% damage reduction...
remove all the defense charms and sins will get just a little less from the vast advantage they got now over any other class.​​

blazerboy

@tabaloul inb4 seekers one shot everything even arcanes with ZC but eh at this point it’s a decent trade off from actually able to kill sins

jsxshadow

blazerboy wrote: »

@tabaloul inb4 seekers one shot everything even arcanes with ZC but eh at this point it’s a decent trade off from actually able to kill sins

Def Charms are fine imho..they help balance the game actually and prevent massive nuke combos that would just insta-kill loads of people. that would really be absolutely stupid. Imagine NP Zerk Psys trip sparking, ulti and throwing a random AOE in a group of people. If it zerkcrits..chances are people are insta-dead...how will you react to something that can oneshot you? Would be WAY WAY worse than the current sin issue.

Making things even worse just to be able to kill a class..sorry but that is the worst possible approach. Fixing the actual class..by removing Tidal and cotd itself..which is something even our local devs could do would be way, WAY better. INB4 Demon Sins for Focused Mind/Tidal mix and APS-Power :DDDDDD

tabaloul

jsxshadow wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

@tabaloul inb4 seekers one shot everything even arcanes with ZC but eh at this point it’s a decent trade off from actually able to kill sins

Def Charms are fine imho..they help balance the game actually and prevent massive nuke combos that would just insta-kill loads of people. that would really be absolutely stupid. Imagine NP Zerk Psys trip sparking, ulti and throwing a random AOE in a group of people. If it zerkcrits..chances are people are insta-dead...how will you react to something that can oneshot you? Would be WAY WAY worse than the current sin issue.

Making things even worse just to be able to kill a class..sorry but that is the worst possible approach. Fixing the actual class..by removing Tidal and cotd itself..which is something even our local devs could do would be way, WAY better. INB4 Demon Sins for Focused Mind/Tidal mix and APS-Power :DDDDDD

np zerk psy 3spark ulting is supposed to 1hit stuff, and not to deal 2k 3k damage like how it is now.

@wildlotus#2209 where did you see archers getting skill changes in next patch? i don't see any glyph adjustment in any upcoming patch​​

blazerboy

@tabaloul issue here is magic doesn’t miss though. NP psychic isn’t the issue but if all arcanes can do full damage at a comfortable max range with no defensive passive HA classes would be in big trouble although sins would be massively punished for trying to steal solo kills they shouldn’t even be allowed to do since no other class can even do this it hurts more classes like barb bm even other arcanes. Magic with zerk is just too powerful we have seen how insane it is in seekers for years now arcanes catching up hell Archers with zerk is uber dangerous to arcane in itself. It will be just a game of mid range classes and duskblades having any chance and even dusk will struggle probably lol

hiitsmeguys

@kalystconquerer#0876 not sure if you still read forum or work at PWE, but please help fix this

Chinese Astrology

2009 - Year of the OX
2010 - Year of the Tiger
2011 - Year of the Rabbit
2012 - Year of the Dragon
2013 - Year of the Snake
2014 - Year of the Horse
2015 - Year of the Goat
2016 - Year of the Monkey
2017 - Year of the Rooster
2018 - Year of the Dog

PWI Astrology

2009 - Year of the SIN birth
2010 - Year of the SIN APS fiasco
2011 - Year of the SIN APS instakill everything, ever
2012 - Year of the ?? The only year that for a brief period sins were balanced, aps was finally controlled and dps was in check
2013 - Year of the SIN - primal update ///
2014 - Year of the SIN
2015 - Year of the SIN
2016 - Year of the SIN
2017 - Year of the SIN
2018 - Year of the take a wild guess...

blazerboy

Feel like seekers should have been a better balance to keep sins in check but nope even they can’t stop them lol... Need a class besides sin whom can shell a ton of damage without damage to do that I guess lol

baambaammm

blazerboy wrote: »

https://youtu.be/ZG9UsDhTcgU

13:00-13:35 lmfao “sin damage isn’t broken” or “sins are fine it’s duskblade that’s broken” lmfao... 74k okay lol most of these ppl have g17.5 def weapons okay lmfao. This video got me pretty sad for the future of this game watching so many bypasses.

@jsxshadow GGWP

cuz of hf and extream poison? well sin need nerf and put our class "db" more op'ier and broken

herbage

hiitsmeguys wrote: »

@kalystconquerer#0876 not sure if you still read forum or work at PWE, but please help fix this

Chinese Astrology

2009 - Year of the OX
2010 - Year of the Tiger
2011 - Year of the Rabbit
2012 - Year of the Dragon
2013 - Year of the Snake
2014 - Year of the Horse
2015 - Year of the Goat
2016 - Year of the Monkey
2017 - Year of the Rooster
2018 - Year of the Dog

PWI Astrology

2009 - Year of the SIN birth
2010 - Year of the SIN APS fiasco
2011 - Year of the SIN APS instakill everything, ever
2012 - Year of the ?? The only year that for a brief period sins were balanced, aps was finally controlled and dps was in check
2013 - Year of the SIN - primal update ///
2014 - Year of the SIN
2015 - Year of the SIN
2016 - Year of the SIN
2017 - Year of the SIN
2018 - Year of the take a wild guess...

2015 - Year of the SIN (i would say this was year of duskblades)
2016 - Year of the SIN (1st part of the year also for duskblades, until homestead update which boosted certain skills and ultimate+new passives)

Hands down, 2012 was the most balanced year, but i would give upper hand to archers, back then i was playing one and was able easly take down same or better geared opponents without a drop of sweat. Everything was fine until primal update.

tabaloul

yup i agree, game was good just up until primal was released
primal passives and skills gave the first big strike to game balance​​

dream762

blazerboy wrote: »

Feel like seekers should have been a better balance to keep sins in check but nope even they can’t stop them lol... Need a class besides sin whom can shell a ton of damage without damage to do that I guess lol

Seeker used to be the balance va sins

tabaloul

dream762 wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

Feel like seekers should have been a better balance to keep sins in check but nope even they can’t stop them lol... Need a class besides sin whom can shell a ton of damage without damage to do that I guess lol

Seeker used to be the balance va sins

barbs too, wizards too, psychic's their natural nemesis
but instead sins easily take over any of those classes, i remember ol good times when sins struggled against psys cause soul of vengeance and soulburn....
guys goddamn soulburn!!!
what happened to skills like soulburn? game balance went so damn south we have skills so outdated it's literally pointless to even have them on the hotkey bar
this is not right​​

herbage

tabaloul wrote: »

dream762 wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

Feel like seekers should have been a better balance to keep sins in check but nope even they can’t stop them lol... Need a class besides sin whom can shell a ton of damage without damage to do that I guess lol

Seeker used to be the balance va sins

barbs too, wizards too, psychic's their natural nemesis
but instead sins easily take over any of those classes, i remember ol good times when sins struggled against psys cause soul of vengeance and soulburn....
guys goddamn soulburn!!!
what happened to skills like soulburn? game balance went so damn south we have skills so outdated it's literally pointless to even have them on the hotkey bar
this is not right​​

Soulburn is still effective. Happened that, sins went sage, and instead of using focused mind as it used to be bofore(as demons). they use sage tidal now, which in 66% is loss of 1 full spark.

ironpwner

Most sins are Sage, am I right? xD well then, they could:

- Make tidal 50% for both demon and sage, and add another effect as the demon/sage versions xD. Also make it so it only lets you evade debuffs from direct damaging skills (see the upcoming Voidbringer mystic skill adjustment). This would allow direct debuffs to go through it.

- Cut the Attack lvl Chill of the deep gives to a half of its current effect. Sage Sins already have raving slash to get att lvl for a short time, and their damaging skills are either fast, multi hits or have short cooldown.

- Make the debuff from Subseastrike a unique debuff, and halve it xD. Force them to use a slot on their genies for ExPoison if they want to do more damage. Force them to use their genies more strategically, not just to use a life-saving skill when all their other options are unavailable. High offensive should have a cost according to what it takes to be like that (look at Wiz and Psy ultis).

- Add some kind of penalty for their stealth xD, or at least give em different stealths, not just the same infite-stealth on each skill effect. Just look at archers stealth's penalty, look at duskblades, who can't stealth forever and use it mostly for escaping. Something like extended cooldown to the skills they use after un-stealthing could work. Or put in cooldown some of their deffensive/evasive skills at least.

...there!, balance

The assassin class doesn't need to be hit till downgraded to 0 xD, but it does need to be toned down. They should have counters like they used to. I hope that with the new skill adjustments, at least barbarians and seekers become their counters again..but we'll see

herbage

@ironpwner

Nice thoughts about skill adjustments. Raving slash is actually merged in Cursed Jail and short att level gain is gone on merged skills. Honestly, if tidal would save only from stun/paralyze but let debuffs go trough, i think in 1vs1 duskblade s would eat them like cookies with easy 4 skill combo.

Not sure about seekers, but barbs after next patch should be way stronger than sins. They are actually on the same level now, but once again, other classes can control barbs, while it`s more difficult to do that on sins. Barbs have HP and def to tank them for awhile. I bet this thread wouldn`t even exist if actually paralyze went trough tidal.

blazerboy

@ironpwner the biggest issue I see is the damage with lack of risk. No class in this game can play effectively while maintaining a Jones blessing. For example any class cc locked in Jones is usually ganna force a save and will remove it. As long tidal is up Sins will stay in Jones for 60 seconds? What? No other class can maintain over 200 atk levels and can sit comfortably. Full deity/devil LA/AA fall like nobody buisness once cced without genie. Most don’t even get a chance to hit pot and just die. Deity archers? Sick a sin or db on it or enough focus and it’s guarenteed dead. Duskblade? If you know how their skills work duskblades really won’t surprise nor scare you (this is my own opinion and from friends who have played the toons up to atleast HS skills but main another class). But a sin to have that many saves is insane.

Ulti - to have literally a skill that makes you untraceable and full damage? What? Lmfao no their damage should be cut atleast! 50% making ulti a save not a get out of jail free card and I can do w/e I want aswell. Sins seldomly die in ulti unless they are at like 10% hp and still attacking which is gg.

Force stealth, archers and and duskblade pay a price to stealth in chi and are limited but sin it’s granting you a spark + saves you + infinite? Yes you can argue Archers is but archers movements become so limited they leave them come out anyways. Tbh at this point all damage coming from stealth should be half and for 2 seconds after coming out that way surprise CJ/Elimination won’t bypass ppl and they have a chance to use genie without bypass.

Chill of the deep/Subsea I think I have to agree 100% with you there

Tidal, I do believe sins need tidal but 66% is too much 50% is more than enough tbh if 2/6 debuffs hit a sin most consider themselves very unlucky while this is normal for every class lol...

In short I think sins should be more team focused instead of I can easily take solo kills with hardly any work. No clicking 2 spark cursed jail cancel elimination bypass isn’t a lot of work.