Is there any point gearing up? - SINS NEED A NERF

splendideyes

saxroll wrote: »

jsxshadow wrote: »

tabaloul wrote: »

if you want to be recognized as pro, you have to win 1v1s as an archer.​​

Given the right gear..it's not tht hard vs a few classes tbh. Archer are one of the balanced classes in PWI xD

I am curious which classes you are talking bout. HAs, LAs, all win against archer by default pretty much. I`d say if Wizzie knows what they are doing, archer doesnt stand a chance there either. Cleric is real painful fight too. Mystics are unkillable if they arent stupid to an archer. The only class I can really see myself beating consistently on even gear on selbfuff scenario is psy. Maybe wizzie if I get more practice with them as the one wizzie who I cant beat on server just completely stomps me. SBs I get to fight like never so its hard to say if they are doable on archer or not but with my current experience fighting them I`d say it too would be pretty rough.

For archer to have kill pressure, you definitely need deities if you are fighting anything thats on even gear level. But that makes you so ridiculously squishy, anything with actual damage output will kill you in 1 CC lock if you dont genie out of it. I`d say archers skill set is balanced but the fact they have to go full class cannon to kill anything makes the class extremely weak because they are so easy to take down with dmg.

and people call me crazy when i claim that psys cant kill anything solo anymore...

blazerboy

@saxroll I play a sb and to be completely honest I see no way I can see an archer doing well unless vastly outgearing a sb. In reaper form 300% pdef most sb with candleflame can hit near cap pdef. Even with NP archer hitting me in reaper form with phy Atks max range doesn’t really seem too scary maybe 10k best hit with a ZC from g17 when in human I can take incoming averages of 16-29k. Moreover sb with just one puri proc can easily close the distance between him/her and archer while throwing a nice ice bullet to stop the archer. Archer use wings of grace to remove cloudburst? Here take shroud of darkness and calm down. Archer sees he needs to add range otherwise sb isn’t going down? Discharge him if he enjoys leaping a lot with a max thunder charges then well two leaps he will probably kill himself or damn near get uber close to it.

Archer vs sb tbh I’d be rather shocked if the sb loses is gear is even remotely similar esp with how insanely hard you can hit as a sb with reaper form cloud burst moon blade cancel for the HF stat with EP and spam sonic boom which has like 0 cooldown and can literally hit certain ppl 20-30k per hit at times. Don’t even get me started if you add ulti or perigean tide to the mix. My best bet to the archer is using ulti which honestly I can see reaper form providing good coverage, ad and IG to stall for more time along with moon blessing you can by so much time against an archer it’s not funny for a sb. Keep the distance closed and punish archer for even trying to make a gap? Basically it’s eitherbthat archer kills you quick or he/she will probably lose. GG

@splendideyes do you by any chance have a zerk weapon? I watch videos on the Asian version of the game zerk psys fairly decent there. Zerk plus the atk lvl add is fairly nice if you ask me.

kokoot

jsxshadow wrote: »

saxroll wrote: »

jsxshadow wrote: »

tabaloul wrote: »

if you want to be recognized as pro, you have to win 1v1s as an archer.​​

Given the right gear..it's not tht hard vs a few classes tbh. Archer are one of the balanced classes in PWI xD

I am curious which classes you are talking bout. HAs, LAs, all win against archer by default pretty much. I`d say if Wizzie knows what they are doing, archer doesnt stand a chance there either. Cleric is real painful fight too. Mystics are unkillable if they arent stupid to an archer. The only class I can really see myself beating consistently on even gear on selbfuff scenario is psy. Maybe wizzie if I get more practice with them as the one wizzie who I cant beat on server just completely stomps me. SBs I get to fight like never so its hard to say if they are doable on archer or not but with my current experience fighting them I`d say it too would be pretty rough.

For archer to have kill pressure, you definitely need deities if you are fighting anything thats on even gear level. But that makes you so ridiculously squishy, anything with actual damage output will kill you in 1 CC lock if you dont genie out of it. I`d say archers skill set is balanced but the fact they have to go full class cannon to kill anything makes the class extremely weak because they are so easy to take down with dmg.

Yes, most definitly grab as much damage as you can as an archer. Generally all Caster should be pretty easy, given that your damage is equal to their survival-Power (like deity for jades and pattack for pdef on chart and so on) cause if thats the case..hitting purged/selfbuffed caster for 10 crits out of the blue is no rare occasion. If you add a G17 GoF bow to the mix it becomes even more one-sided for the archer.

The biggest strength of archer is still the ability to take away both def charms with a single attack with the fire buff on. Stunning arrow + QS + TA still deals quite a bit of damage. if you follow up with an instant Knockback (soon, which is why I like that skill) into 2.5 sec seal/freeze Aim Low..welp, you can deal loads of damage if purify doesnt proc. That's only my experience tho.

Are you high ? Or something ? If archer is fighting equally geared oponent you can olny kitte, pray and hope he wont kill you so fast... All that you will get for investing lots of money and time.

akemaa#4373

first of all idk what kinda psychics you fight if they lose with same gears they do something wrong,second its true sins need serious work about balancing and why you saying you dunno much about stormbringers when you 1 vs hara

jsxshadow

@saxroll @blazerboy Archer needs to be smart about it. Grab HoS and Oxygen and you can beat any SB (if the skill-gap is not too big and ofc the gear is balanced). Archer need as much damage as possible..the thing is..archer are being underestimated...they can actually dish out insane damage pretty damn fast and from range...that means nearly everytime stuff is out of CD you gonna get those combos in your face. That's also why I would like insta KBA, despite it not actually knocking ppl back, because you have a nice, fast skill spam that keeps the enemy on their toes.

Sure, if you deal 5k crits on a 29k HP SB...you gonna struggle hard. However, an average jaded SB with 24k pdef selfbuffed will get hit easily by 10k+ crits from a full deity Archer with 65k+ base damage. 10k Crits is enough to charmbypass most people...since QS + insta TA is counted as 1 hit (server FTW, similar to sins skills, tho for archer it depends massively on ping of both players) you have a buffer of roughly 20k damage to charmbypass with..which is not that hard vs caster tbh. I know SBs pretty well..if you use HoS and esp Oxygen in a smart way you can catch them off guard. SBs do not have that many saves..they just use Counter-CC to stay alive. If you block the majority of CC with oxygen in such a situation then you can catch and kill them but you need to know SBs pretty well, as I said. G17 isn't even needed..it would just increase the chance to bypass.

When the SB is in reaper, put on Anti-Stun and fly away. Next update..use the jump into the air, flyer and gtfo of there xDDDDDD Chances are, if you try to take on a Storm in Reaper without either just CCing and kiting..you will die xD Also, you need to 100% keep a save to counter SBs-Ulti or that alone will probably kill you. 2 spark helps vs the ulti debuff if you can jump out of there. Also, watch out for Discharge. It depends on the player, really. I can't say either class would 100% win but the chances are quite even I'd say.

Lets not go on about archer in this thread anymore...you know derailing and such and I will be put to blame for that again QQ

splendideyes

blazerboy wrote: »

@splendideyes do you by any chance have a zerk weapon? I watch videos on the Asian version of the game zerk psys fairly decent there. Zerk plus the atk lvl add is fairly nice if you ask me.

yep, but not in 1vs1, you will not be able to remove def charms quick enough, unless your opponent plays 1 handed while watching TBBT or something.

i had a little skirmish with @saxroll in xNW a few weeks ago, where i just let him hit me while pulling my pets out and other shenanigans and i was never in danger of dying - when i turned around to hit him, guess what...he was also not in danger of dying, due to the fact that he can block the damage 4 times, then kite/immune/cc me and repeat.

its literally the two worst classes right now. mass pvp is a different story, thats where us casters still shine..but with this declining userbase, where is the mass pvp?

give it a year and 50 % of the community plays sin - rest quit or stop pvp events.

jsxshadow

splendideyes wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

@splendideyes do you by any chance have a zerk weapon? I watch videos on the Asian version of the game zerk psys fairly decent there. Zerk plus the atk lvl add is fairly nice if you ask me.

yep, but not in 1vs1, you will not be able to remove def charms quick enough, unless your opponent plays 1 handed while watching TBBT or something.

i had a little skirmish with @saxroll in xNW a few weeks ago, where i just let him hit me while pulling my pets out and other shenanigans and i was never in danger of dying - when i turned around to hit him, guess what...he was also not in danger of dying, due to the fact that he can block the damage 4 times, then kite/immune/cc me and repeat.

its literally the two worst classes right now. mass pvp is a different story, thats where us casters still shine..but with this declining userbase, where is the mass pvp?

give it a year and 50 % of the community plays sin - rest quit or stop pvp events.

Unless ofc sins get nerfed to the ground which would benefit anyone.

tabaloul

remove defense charms and pvp would be twice as fun and balanced.

archers equal skills equal gears, can't win 1v1s.
they just dont have the damage, and when they do they just dont have the sustain.
they don't have the ccs and purge is unrelevant in 1v1s
you just walk into the archer and he deals half as much damage already, you spend most of your 1v1 repositioning to fight range malus...
no escapes besides ataraxia... leaps? sure but everyone can goddamn gap close... no resistances self-buffs....
literaly get 1 debuff and 1 damage tick over charms and you are prolly taking a oneshot
gg pwi

in mass, they can be fun tho​​

blazerboy

You know remove def charms yes is a option but I worry mainly about multi hit classes sins and dbs are ganna be guaranteed to kill arcanes without questions the only trade off is arcanes have a better shot at killing if they aren’t focused but the moment arcanes get focused then it’s gg. It’s a hard choice here for me. Stormbringers hell will be scary full damage moonblade on a well geared sb hurts like hell HA would be severely hurt by all this which imo would bother me too much because some bms are ungodly hard for me to hurt but meh. Reaper form moonblade cancel spam sonic boom with EP and most non arcane will just be deleted by sb with exception of db if sb keeps range up. Sb 3rd spark get on your cj dead and duskblade full cast disarm and without genie and you’re likely dead as a arcane or LA. I have mixed feelings about total remove of def charms X.X

Also @jsxshadow what are you referring to next update sb will be op? Monsoon? Trash. Tidal force gets a ok update but for the most part sb didn’t get really anything X.X

keihan007#7641

jsxshadow wrote: »

Sure, if you deal 5k crits on a 29k HP SB...you gonna struggle hard. However, an average jaded SB with 24k pdef selfbuffed will get hit easily by 10k+ crits from a full deity Archer with 65k+ base damage. 10k Crits is enough to charmbypass most people...since QS + insta TA is counted as 1 hit (server FTW, similar to sins skills, tho for archer it depends massively on ping of both players) you have a buffer of roughly 20k damage to charmbypass with..which is not that hard vs caster tbh.

I actually have that 65k+ p.attack as full deity - I did some testing with a fully jaded friend cleric a while back. In order for me to hit her purged 10ks, I had to double or triple spark. That was a up to date cleric with similar amount of gear as me, which imo is a perfect comparison. Lesser gear jaded clerics I deal more dmg due them not having something like 20 aptitude on chart/etc. Honestly, you exaggerate archer damage heavily, it really isnt great even with my gear, which is basically maxed short of NP/Devil stones.

tabaloul

ikr i want to see joe videos winning 1v1s as an archer vs anything that is not absolute trash.

@scally db and sins already negate defense charms by multi hit skills i mean, other classes cannot do the same thing...
i believe sin cursed or elimination even if you pop it at first def charm tick, you already get the full damage cause 5 damage ticks or paralize, db any paralyze disables charms

remove all the defense charms from the game would do just good.​​

blazerboy

@tabaloul db can’t negate it as bad as sin but yes they can go through it far easier than any arcane or archer and barb. My arguement only against this is top tier arcane could be really dangerous which doesn’t bother me but sin and db are guaranteed kills on arcanes whom don’t have a immediate save. If it did happen ofc I’ll adjust fire but still it’s hard to say I would prefer this. Also bms/barbs would have a tough time with the fact they have hardly the ability to close distances effectively and normally when you see a bm coming into a group you throw everything at him/her to stop them in their tracks mainly cc, having that happen but full damage taken gg bm and barbs. Like I said I’m not exactly for this but not entirely opposed.

jsxshadow

tabaloul wrote: »

ikr i want to see joe videos winning 1v1s as an archer vs anything that is not absolute trash.

@scally db and sins already negate defense charms by multi hit skills i mean, other classes cannot do the same thing...
i believe sin cursed or elimination even if you pop it at first def charm tick, you already get the full damage cause 5 damage ticks or paralize, db any paralyze disables charms

remove all the defense charms from the game would do just good.​​

Wut?

ImTheOne is no trash:
https://youtu.be/5qE7ii9C29I
- fought him again in another vid.

kitashi is most definitely no trash:
https://youtu.be/rVrYyOBPZNg

Both those fights are equal-gears and I have loads more of those fights lol.

I've also been beating Vyrrg and other seeker, before they geared up massively and those are no trash either. I just can't even compete with some now that they geared up so hard whilst my archer is still at the same gear level.

I don't get why people assume that everyone I fight against is trash.

1. I'v seen some of this "trash" crapping on loads of big mouth ppl from other server and DA ofc.
2. 99.9% of all the people that other PWI-Tubers fight against in their 1v1 are either just as "trash" or way worse so cut that BS out.

I tell you this. Give me full deity on my archer, a double pattack (fates) chart with 20 apt, full 2nd rb CF set and a g17 GoF bow and I will show you how I beat 99% of all active 1v1 ppl in this game. Some of the fights I have recorded have even been before glyphs..aka stun, freeze and stuff kept on missing again and again. Archer never been the strongest class..but they got quite a bit stronger Lately anyways.

Vs BMs, Barbs, Sins, Duskblades..that are even half-decent..you don't even have to try unless you outgear them so hard so that you can kill them in like 5 seconds or less. Anything else is very doable, even if you are fighting skilled people. The main reason for that being that you can counter most of their stuff with genie skills and timing. They can't just instantly blast you away. Even mystics are doable. Watch out for thicket, keep the anti-stun up and "spray & pray" that purge so that you might get them killed. It's annoying, yes, but doable and if you know what a myst can do you can stay alive forever vs them, esp when they have to play defensive.

Again, my endgame archer experience is from like 3 years ago on another server. With all the disadvantages then..I could beat most people, good or bad, doesnt matter. I don't ave endgame archer experience in PWI, granted, but PWI has gotten LOADS more offensive increases than defensive increases so I kinda doubt it would be much different now.

QQ you mean ppl..all this talk about archer makes me wanna stop my sin and go for archer instead..I friggin love this class ._.

keihan007#7641

I dont think Joe realizes that jades counter deities completely. And we arent actually fighting +10 ppl he is, we are fighting +12 ppl and basically our kill pressure is less than he has due these facts even with us having deities and whatnot.

As for videos, I cant speak for SB one but the Kitashi fight was amusing, least first fight I bothered to watch. She clearly had no idea how to actually fight an archer, the few times she burned leaps she then stopped going to melee range and allowed leaps to get off CD before trying again resulting in you getting to freely shoot for max DPS. You can say she is good, she even might be but in that fight she showed none of it.

splendideyes

can we please go back to bringing the OPness of Sins to the devs attention in an desperate attempt to get it somehow nerfed or balanced, instead of bowing down to Joe`s extraordinary archery skills?

jsxshadow

splendideyes wrote: »

can we please go back to bringing the OPness of Sins to the devs attention in an desperate attempt to get it somehow nerfed or balanced, instead of bowing down to Joe`s extraordinary archery skills?

I want nothing more than that...that's why I gear my sin and not my Archer QQ NEED THAT NERF!

blazerboy

@jsxshadow several comments on that video vs sb
1) This was before glyphs were a thing so this isn’t really applicable to the current state of the game
2) the guy nearly never used Perigean tide nor cloudburst to maximize his output. He hit you 26k with frozen lightning with perigean gg could have been more consistent if he had cloudburst with full max thunder charges gg and ulti help could have. The guy was clearly trying to keep his water charges up which is fine but neglected his ability to spark icebullet climate shift cloudburst EP frozen Lightning and gg your archer w/o saves prob wouldn’t survive.
3) All in all he isn’t a terrible sb in my opinion But didn’t know what to do vs a toon he couldn’t constantly cc since you kept your antistuns up. It felt like he played defense more of the time while you were on offense.

illuziionn

Maybe too much people are stuck on the past gameplay of their own class ?
For example, almost all Barbs and Archer did switch from Josd to Deity, their is a reason..
mostly talking for psy ^^ they should all turn full deity since deity or Josd, in both way they would die quickly due to the amount of High DD we do see now.
About sin, the funny thing is that everyone is QQing about tidal, which is a skill working with luck, and if you are smart, you kite people, or you over damage them. Nothing hard with it let’s be honest, some people are doing this quite well
But yeah I know, it is always easier to QQ about 3-4 strong class than Cs, farm or switch our own gameplay.
For Joe, unless to make every single class and spend money for nothing, just bring one of you char in endgame ( which mean at least full+12, full gear CoA, Jaden and all ) and then go fight people with same gear. Why ?
Most of good pkers are endgame, and Endgame change how you have to play with your class, mostly cause we don’t have same gear as china’s Server’s one...

jsxshadow

@illuzionnn Welp, the thing about endgame or rather equal gears (endgame or not, doesnt really matter) is that people forget basic math in their calculation.

Certain classes like sins, barbs, BMs, Duskblades, etc ... do not need more survival-power, they mostly need more damage to beat ppl (at least in 1v1). So why should I even bother gearing up/endgaming a char, when I can see the damage I already deal on people. I just add the potential damage, see how there would be no competition if I did upgrade the gears and just leave it be. IDC about Mass-PvP and for 1v1 no endgame char is required at all. As an example: My Barb could hit Ruby (130 def lvl, 47k pdef) for 24k zc arma with 150 att lvl and 52k base damage. Now, if I add 60 att lvl, 20k base damage and 300 spirit...welp I believe he would die from a zc arma, don't you think? Why even bother?

Sins are way worse tho...even without that..I can hit ruby for 20k zc with only the last hit of elimination on selfbuffs..and my sins damage sucks compared to what an endgame sin or just equally geared one (to ruby) would deal to him. Sins damage is the main thing that is broken in general. Tidal is just broken beyond belief in Mass-PvP..cause as I've said, yes it doesn't always work, but with luck it could make a sin nearly immortal..those squishy, full att-level sins that should normally be 3-shot from anyone, CAN survive an onslaught of Multiple people, thanks to def charms and the inability to CC, Debuff, Purge. This "CAN" should not be allowed to exist. At least not to this extent.

illuziionn

Well, for the 1v1 part yes, I do agree and I know you are getting fun in it, I would love to see you enjoying mass pk, mostly cause we do finally have opennent at SP in Dawnglory

For the sin Part.. playing sin and having old characters too on the side, I agree I was able to survive quite well vs 3 class same gear in 3v3 even if I lost in final cause they were playing defensively and quitting non stop.. it’s still a 1v3, am not portal or w/e so ^^
But in every game, Assassin role is the same, and even in China, they are all aps mode like Luxana is on our own server. Is that powerful ? Yes, but vs a sin like me, he just have to die cause out of immun potion, I am better.
Then I don’t think the current balance is about skill, but mostly about the gear we can all get.
Sin already received a nerf about physical attack from cards, and we get only cheap phy attack from starchart too cause we deal passiv damage about %weapon; but the main thing is : a sin can decide to survive, or Massiv DD but most of time and most of sin can’t do both in same time..
after all, during mass pk, if I come to close from the middle fight, I just get catch from all bm, barb, dusk and storms, and 1 single DD is enough to make me use pots/genie.
When it happens to get 2-3 same gear on me, I just die or get save by my wonderfull cleric
Cause am sorry to say this but if we nerf sin abilities... can we do some others stuff ?

Psy should be able to turn in neutral and not beeing in Attack mode or defense mode when they used their skill.
Seeker when they use their skills that decrease their def lvl to increase their attack lvl shouldn’t be able to transfer it with Qui pro quo ( sorry if I type wrong )
Bm definitely need more damage.. but they have powerful control as **** xD
Dusk... if we nerf sin, nerf this **** class too... really.
Barb.. as you said... you can hit with arma 20k with 1 skill on Ruby.. I guess their is a problem.
Those are just example, I don’t accept to get nerf if seeker don’t get nerf as well
Well, I have to agree on 1 thing.. cause am fair.
The next update with to/paralyze for 3.5 sec, and 4 sec with lvl 8 glyph make me smile
Yes it is definitely OP, and sin will become even bigger monster with it ^^

blazerboy

@illuziionn first of all that “sin get nerf atk from card and chart thing” stop saying that please. What other class has wolf emblem which is consistent 20 crit damage and 40 atk for basically free on top of atleast 200%+ base phy atk damage amplifiers newsflash and can repeadily spark which all stacks NOBODY BUT SIN, sin are in no way lacking when it comes to damage. Even when you argue the china aspect they just purge with aps and do a onslaught of 4aps and 4-16k you call that nerf? Please go watch the taiwan version or **** version videos on YouTube and see how crazy son damage is before you say that....

Also how do classes drop quickly quick in Jsod as deity does? Are they missing a good chart? Good cards? These are other aspects to consider. None of my 3 defense level based toons drop anywhere near quickly at all. A good reason why barbs and Archers even went attack level is due to lack of crowd control so they may aswell go full attack to farm kill not because ppl drop quick in def level that’s completely absurd. Atk levels do not match defense level blow for blow otherwise a minor 30 def level would barely be noticeable agianst 70 atk lvl weapons which is Very noticeable when you damage test it. The 80 atk g17.5 wep isn’t even a proper counter to the op as heck 80 def level weapon with a defense proc on both gg...

What nerf do you want more for dusk to get? Dusk has been getting nerf since HS opened. When HS opened about every class got some form of damage increase on skills except guess? Duskblades. The glyph update gave no real damage index increase to dusk either most of it apply to pve or like 50% weapon damage here and there which is a complete joke. Then they increase cooldown of umbral stalker and divine moonlight. What is that 4 major updates dusk got relatively no damage increase? What more do you want exactly? HS gave spellcutter condense thorn more damage to match elimination and CJ then glyph gave elimination more damage or spamable and paralyze to sin. You can argue the tidal “nerf” which really didn’t change sins much outside of 1v1s which sorry to @jsxshadow but this game wasn’t balanced for 1v1 it was for mass. Now Assassins May get paralyze on leaps which completely will destroy the lives or anything arcane there is absolutely no way you can justify duskblade needs more nerfs. What do you want quadrature to deal half damage which is literally at this point dusk main form of damage with a 3min cd imagine CJ and elimination with the same where will sins be? I’m always confused when ppl keep asking for duskblades to get nerf but ignore 4 updates when they got their damage stagnant while everyone’s def went up via passives then their saves get nerfed aswell what do you want all skills to not paralyze or increase CD? A private server tried that and the class was completely unplayable once skills were used just run and wait 45 seconds just to use half its skills repeat lol. A duskblade can’t even get solokills in mass unless they massively outgear opponents while a sin can do it to a char they are ungeared what exactly do you want here?

Nobody is even asking to completely break sin class either code all their damage to weapon damage so ppl don’t just easily get bypassed or remove tidal completely so they can easily be cced forcing them to either work as a team or die not farm solo kills like they have been. You’re literally asking classes get crippled because ppl are tired of sins just getting away with w/3 they want? What? >.<

thetruesinsz

Nerf Duskblades, unbelivable class. Nonstop CC, go to hell LMAO

tabaloul

lmao iamtheone or kitashi "not absolute trash"
try win 1v1 against idk dikke? or ruby? or idk even pandyon, you are gonna delete your ea after the outcome.

well illuzion was playing a bm, reached endgame and decided to reroll sin....
why not mystic or idk wizard? why sin?

there is just 1 reason, sins are an overpowered class, first was the aps sin i played one and i was solokilling Initium cata teams with it back in time, then DPH came out, deity came out, purge weapon came out, devil stones came out, paralyze glyph came out, all of this cr.ap gave the best returns to assassin class...

at cards and star chart damage nerf, that is laughable, during a fight no other class can consistently multiply its base damage output x12 and sh.it like that.

there is a reason genesesia or w.e. solowins 1v3 arena and dragoonz does not.​​

blazerboy

What kinda confuses me is how ppl will swear it’s mostly due to genesesia gear not his class when you can easily see Nemki,dragoonz are at just about the same gears in fact Nemki is 5/6 2rb NP g17.5 weapon +3 stone I’m not even sure if gene has as much rb on his cards yet psy gl 3v1. Archer? As long opposing squad has a sin or db and gg. Sin? Just bypass and kite with a defensive proc win. You can argue that’s a top tier sin and lower sins don’t accomplish this but wrong. With how many free +2/3 were given a deity and devil sin can still bypass ppl if he just AA. Most ppl don’t mind dying to a 3-5 person gank, that’s life ok np. But if everyone is hitting you 4-8k max while being about the same gear then out of nowhere one toon just about evenly gears sometimes even lesser does 16-25k per hit something just isn’t right lol not to mention the sins who outgear you.

wtl

LOL, I rarely come to the forums any more, but came today to see why I'm getting random gifts from pwi on different toons with no discernable pattern I can see and found this thread.

For years, I thought if i geared up, leveled up and tried there might be a chance my toons could be competative. As a farmer it was not an easy task. I finally got my barb to 104 102 102 R9R3 +10 and the first thing that happened to me in nw was to get 2 shot by a veno before I could even hit her.

So I guess I'm just slow, but no more pvp events for me. Barb is parked, Seeker is semi parked and now I'm just enjoying leveling my old jolly old jones toons doing quests. The morai gear is fine with me, not worth the effort to farm the coin to get r9. So when my coin runs out I will stop playing. You need gold to realy level gears, but that will never happen with the auction house in the shape it's in. The gap between most farmers and the cash shoppers has grown to the point to where there is no point to even try to be competative.

limit1#4879

@thetruesinsz finally someone who knows their stuff... sins are not op in general.. if you see the damage output of db vs sins. sins are slightly disadvantaged. somehow the g16 db deals more damage than g16 sins. + their no effort cc lock and db still has no nerf ahahaha. tidal has been nerf so no effort their if you know how to kite then ur good... db have 3 dash 1 20sec cd , 1 30 sec cd not sure on this one, and 1 that can be reset ,... and another skill to reset all their skills cd. and they are not op?
sins with no gear is like a normal mob.... it doesnt matter what your class in this PAY2WIN GAME. THE MORE END GAME GEAR + NP CARDS YOU HAVE THE BETTER YOUR PVP EXPERIENCE IS. g17 5th cast has 2 effects 1 offensive and 1 defensive... if that is not op... then what is?.. ... you will realize the gear difference when you maxed ur nuema and sky level + passives. ur a g16 mob.. somehow you are not 1 hit coz of those 3 things. ... but still you will die on 2nd or 3rd hit/skill. and you deal meh damage to them and they still win in the end. thats the level of interaction you will get on nw,xnw with max passives+max nuema... plus if you think hard enough why full devils any class can win againts full def levels cleric/bm and barb. .. def levels is meant for you to add to your survival time.. thats why josd bm can only only kill g16 mobs and not atk levels sins.
full g16 mob with 29 def levels vs 180 atklevels anyclass surely u know who will win regardless of how well you know that class. MONEY DOESNT LIE IN THIS GAME. Don't QQ that sins are op.. the general rule in this game is "the more money you have the more op you are!" seems to be true. most of the time.
fyi. you know when r9+12 you facing has no passives when you hit them.. if your damge with 160 atk levels = 1-500 damge. you have no chance of winning... if your damage is 501 - 999 - you might have a chance <5% if you deal 1k++ you have 50% chance of winning. i use this formula to accept my death in nw xnw. .. you should add this to your system if you feel wrong about not having any interaction against them.
lastly ... bm is a support class/cc ****.... if you think you can kill loads of people in it.. you should've played seeker instead. or even better sb. there is no interaction with def levels bm vs atk level freaks. pwi math doesnt allow it.

jsxshadow

@limit1#4879 Stop taking things out of context. We are not talking about a sitatuation in which a certain class outgears another. On equal gears sins just destroy everything. Granted, Duskblades do the very same.

People get the wrong idea here. No one said Duskblades are not OP, heck I have beaten ppl with my Duskblade rather easily that I wouldn't have been able to kill on my Sin with those gears and if I could kill them then I would have to focus way, way harder than on my Dusk.

The thing is...Sins scale the best with gears. 1v1 isn't even that big of a deal. Sins and Duskblades are kinda equal there. If both have enough damage they will rip through anything BUT the sin will beat the Duskblade in a direct 1v1 so that gives the sin the slight edge. Also, most people tend to forget a very, VERY important thing: I have died to ultra-mega-hyper noob Sins...basically just using random BS-skills. If a duskblade is not a master you can easily beat him with any class. That's the difference. Most ppl ignore that..and I don't see why. If someone is an absolute master with his class..granted. Let him wreck everyone but garbage players`? I much rather deal with a noob DB than a noob Sin.

tabaloul

people trying to fabricate facts to argument sins are not op in 2018.... it's getting boring
sin damage is np? allright then lets give 400% base damage to motionless move or idk, take aim, or idk any other fvcking skill? when the sin is gonna get hit by a 400% base skill he will realize how OP this **** is​​

blazerboy

@jsxshadow lmfao at this point there is no point arguing when this was said by @limit1#4879 “if you see the damage output of db vs ins sins are slightly disadvantage and db deals more damage than sins” this is probably the most ignorant phrase said in this whole convo. Literally reading sin skills this is prove otherwise. Find one duskblade skill that’s coded nearly as high as, elimination, and cursed jail those skills are based on % base damage. Exactly how do you propose to prove db hits harder than sin? Granted db has a easier time locking arcane but damage? Lmfao you literally prove you know NOTHING of the classes differences lmfao.

Give every other class 320% base physical damage + 140% weapon damage then each hit charge deals 24% damage this is a argent glyph lvl5 elimination. You will not find one single class with a skill that scales even half as high as this, then add constant triple spark. You have no idea how damage is even calculated your claim db hits harder literally proves this when sins have a skill like elimination lying around. Not satisfied? Argent lvl5 Cursed jail deals 200% base physical damage + weapon damage sanguine glyph are you serious?

Before you say other classes have as much damage go find other classes with consistent 20% crit damage and free 40 atk level? Are you kidding? Lmfao db has advantages mainly agianst arcane but sin has advantage agianst every single class in game massively. If you time a faith/AD/fortify genie wisely genie db loses easily in 1v1 devil vs Serenity or devil vs devil but serenity vs Serenity will take a lot of time and patience but doable for certain classes. Jade of steady defense vs deity same result fighting a dusk. Go try that with a Assassin devil vs devil all it takes is one cursed jail/elimination w/o genie and you’re done. If you have a faith/AD or even a faith expel genie all the sin needs to do is wait patiently for you to waste both skills and it’s gg win. Mass pk is literally terrorizing when you can have cap defense and still die bypassed lol. God help you if a deity/devil sin jumps you with any form support, most of the time they bypass with you with their two top skills or just get the job done alone with just def charms being proced. Yes the game is dependent on who’s pocket is bigger but even vit stone sins with mediocre gears can scare Serenity toons die to how high their skills deal no other class can do the same.