The future of Dragon's Conquest (xTW)

blazerboy

I do particularly enjoy xtw and would also like less whined fights

aensidhe

nightmare201 wrote: »

Are you folks just unable to stop whining at each other long enough to take a good hard look at what else is wrong with the system, as I believe is the point of this thread, and maybe try to get a good fix going? Every one of these threads that mentions xTW seems to devolve into a pissing contest about who's best or who did it legitimately.

If you want that, then you need to first discount the OP who didn't make such a post with the best of intentions. Certainly nothing was made of this back when the system was into Season 2, when the same flaws exist. He also did not mention similar issues with Arigora or with TNF. Know why? Because it didn't affect his guild then. Just look at his obsession with whining about Vindicate every chance he gets on forums and in server.

I will accept any other server or guild's post about this than from a known drama queen.

dingo488

aensidhe wrote: »

I will accept any other server or guild's post about this than from a known drama queen.

You fight facts with emotions and claim I'm a drama queen. There's plenty of people weighing in on the conversation, that don't get stuck on the fact I said the word Vindicate. It is you that can't get over the fact your faction name was mentioned and are automatically unable to process any information or understand any of the other points I've discussed. This is your second post on this thread and you have yet to add any type of value since you've spent every post doing nothing but attack me as a person, instead of my argument and examples. No one cares about what you will or will not accept, clearly any form of discussion is way over your head as you get distracted by who is making the argument instead of what the actual argument is.

---

@kalystconquerer#0876 did you find time to watch the video? I'd understand if you didn't, just figured since u mentioned it I'd check.

heerohex#3018

I have not had time to listen yet and think it would be in my interest. Tho I'll dismiss a few things I expect.

I'll attempt to do so later.

EDIT:

So after watching well listening I came came to the following conclusions.

Some of your points where interesting.

The main point of this you however missed totally and if you research comes up in the history of PWI. The Time zones for events is a BIG problem. This is nothing short of the other points of Players and Factions that are able to compete to the Level required as you have quoted.

I don't think your far off saying to reduce the lands either but. I would like to say its also kinda interesting to leave it as it is for the point of you really have to plan and pick your battles. Im sure i herd somewhere that the points you can earn are caped at 60 if your holding 6 lands it would be pointless attacking the middle... Now quote me if im wrong...

Think we really have to leave it another season... and the other point will be ILL bet the lands are hard coded!

Nice post tho.

dingo488

heero200 wrote: »

The main point of this you however missed totally and if you research comes up in the history of PWI. The Time zones for events is a BIG problem. This is nothing short of the other points of Players and Factions that are able to compete to the Level required as you have quoted.

I don't think your far off saying to reduce the lands either but. I would like to say its also kinda interesting to leave it as it is for the point of you really have to plan and pick your battles. Im sure i herd somewhere that the points you can earn are caped at 60 if your holding 6 lands it would be pointless attacking the middle... Now quote me if im wrong...

The point cap is non-existent.

The main reason I chose not to really touch on the timezone topic was because it has been discussed so extensively in the past.
I also think the easier way to improve xTW would be to make it more appealing and then generate more interest through that, instead of trying to generate more interest and thus making it more appealing.

When xTW first came out a lot of people really wanted xTW to be catered to the american timezones, especially since we saw how outnumbered we were compared to Dawnglory on the European timeslots (since we just had xNW). Though I feel like right now the servers, and especially the xTW factions are molded towards this current timeslot, I actually don't think we'll have more overall activity if we were to switch the slots. Mostly because a lot of people that previously were interested in xTW now no longer play the game since at the time it wasn't available to them. Obviously I can only take the activity of my own faction into account but I do believe we are a lot more active around xTW time now, instead of TW time. I imagine it would be the same for other factions. It could definitely be worth exploring this option though, I would love to see a lot of the people coming back to play the game, hopefully without watching the Dawnglory people go.

sensualsoul

What would help to make people want to DC more would be, lots less lag and better rewards. At this point everyone has both dragons and the charms you get only last 1 hour so are pretty useless. How about some useful rewards for us to buy with the DC coins? Charms that are not timed, fashion maybe? some kind of gear upgrade, maybe glyphs or something for star charts? I don't know but I hear a lot of people say the lag make it no fun and if they are going to do at least they want some kind of useful reward. I happen to agree with both.

shopcheese

The 2 hours charms are still nice as it saves money! However I do agree it would be nice to see other rewards available using the xTW coins.
I think nebula dust orb would be great.

Still hoping for a land reduction as well though.

dingo488

heero200 wrote: »

Think we really have to leave it another season... and the other point will be ILL bet the lands are hard coded!

Does this mean the lands can't be disabled?

I really don't think it would be a good idea to wait another season, the amount of factions attacking Swirling Dragon Camp right now has reached 0, things couldn't possibly get more stale ^^ Granted the season is pretty much over but this whole season has been 100% dead. Maybe taking half measures would be a good option if it's too early to commit to a big change, but I think no change is just going to create another 6 months of nothing going on.

heerohex#3018

@dingo488 yes if its hard coded like a lot of the events are then it will be near impossible to change...

We had an attack on the middle land this week... I really think your right and the system should take into account how many active factions are doing XTW. Then allow the system to auto tweek each season the amount of lands.

@kalystconquerer#0876 please can you look into the possibility of reducing lands on XTW. I know they have done this for XNW but my guess is It would be hard coded...

Thanks.

scruncy

Reducing land would be a idiotic move. Small factions have then no chance at all anymore since they would just face the OP big factions. Change the matching system. Top faction always matched with eachother then lower ranking with each other.
Then you will have your fights. Most small factions gave up on xtw because the matching system stinks.

beast21g

why reduce lands?
you can simply make to not be able to multi bid lvl1 or lvl2 lands

you own lvl1 land next week you can only bid lvl2 land
you own lvl2 land next week you can only bid lvl3 land

dingo488

heero200 wrote: »

We had an attack on the middle land this week... I really think your right and the system should take into account how many active factions are doing XTW. Then allow the system to auto tweek each season the amount of lands.

Ye, Dragon's Meet got 1 fight, Swirling 0, and everyone else went on the lowest tier, which obviously doesn't create much in terms of excitement.

I completely agree that reducing lands will have a negative effect on smaller factions, and I feel like this is where PWE is gonna have to make a choice. Looking at the design of xTW it's very clearly not designed for small factions. If you look at the rules you basically have to qualify to participate in xTW by being successful in TW on your own server. It's meant for only the top 3 factions on each server. Clearly that's not the case for us, but lowering the land count to match the amount of server would make that more the case for us.

However, if we want smaller factions to also participate in xTW, then we're essentially taking a more ''fun'' approach instead of having it be a real competition between the top factions, which is perfectly fine too. But reducing lands wouldn't be a good change if you were to go with that approach, a better change would be to shorten the season. But ye... It's kind of a choice between ''everyone gets to have fun'' and ''it's a competition between the best'', in terms of how you want to approach xTW. Right now all these ''small'' factions are basically guaranteeing the big factions never get to fight each other. I guess it's kind of a ''pick-your-poison'' deal

heerohex#3018

beast21g wrote: »

why reduce lands?
you can simply make to not be able to multi bid lvl1 or lvl2 lands

you own lvl1 land next week you can only bid lvl2 land
you own lvl2 land next week you can only bid lvl3 land

again coding not going to happen but a nice suggestion and kinda how I thought it would work...

scruncy wrote: »

Reducing land would be a idiotic move. Small factions have then no chance at all anymore since they would just face the OP big factions. Change the matching system. Top faction always matched with eachother then lower ranking with each other.
Then you will have your fights. Most small factions gave up on xtw because the matching system stinks.

Wait... What... so if most small factions have stopped doing XTW and they have more chance with current lands...
My personal thinking is if you have less lands it will push bigger factions to attack higher land groups. meaning more resource goes into the bigger battle. Meaning the smaller factions may have a chance.

Just remember that can backfire at any point... either way the smaller factions that are not doing XTW and then complain will make it difficult to cater for.

its asking if it can be done. Ill be point it wont so no problem really.

Lastly feedback from other people on suggestions are good no one really can take the state of play from a few people.

in short KEEP YOUR FEEDBACK COMING IN!

Thanks.

dingo488

It's a bit on a different note, but Echo ran into a different issue this week with xTW. We had too many lands so some of our lands wouldn't show up on our list of battles.



Despite the fact there is a scroll bar you can't scroll down this list so it's not visible if the lands not on the list got attacked (which did happen this week). Clicking the arrow will VERY briefly scroll down the lands, but it's so fast it's very hard to see if they got attacked or not (it's probably just 1 or maybe 2 frames). This might be worth looking in to as well for in the future. This was the first time a faction actually had 10+ lands, so it's not a common issue, but that doesn't mean it can't happen again.

wadzio

Ok, I kinda prefered this season to be over, because I didnt wanna explain too much before it happened. The entire thing in the video is full of mistakes and misunderstandings.

I still love the best the part predicting how many lands will be attacked and which lands wont be attacked next week etc. Dude, this doesnt work this way. It fills until all lands are taken then it goes random, there is no pattern in that... Otherwise Infamous wouldnt have same swirling land attacked for 3 or 4 weeks in a row (some1 correct me here), Crisis not having battles on Swirling Dragon lands for 3 weeks, same as vindi i think never had one of their lands attacked for almost 2 months or Origin and Legendary holding tier 2 lands for weeks. Predicting how many wars Vindicate would have is fun Mister I Wannabe Nostradamous, not gonna lie I had a good laugh This comes with interest of guilds, tier of lands they wanna bid, lastly ammount of guilds participating. U should look at ur own guild were for some reason for like past 6 weeks (except last week) u had max 3 battles and that holding some decent ammount of lands (ah that unfair PWI system right!!!) LOL

With the end of the season different guilds had different goals and did what they could to take one of the top 3 spots. Yes, we can QQ about the week most couldnt enter, but yea there was a roll back in points and guess what - a lot of guilds bid different specially Crisis who then realised for the first time 60 pts per week is not enough, so yes with all guilds bidding different we could not have same setup of wars... Yet no matter what I believe none will come and say that Vindicate didnt deserve to win this xTW season. Yes, Crisis could be the strongest guild in xTW or have the strongest top 60 setup, but well their leadership played it rly poorly which also in my opinion killed their members fun (think thru all 6 months you folks had literally 3 wars worth calling them fun). Gotta also say Echo did a nice come back at the end of the season and climbed high on ranks. Same as Infamous surprised many beating Crisis... Pretty much this season everyone won with someone and everyone lost to someone

Anyway what is the main problem of xTW?
a/ The point system is not as much of a trouble IMO. It actually gives u a chance to compete on many different levels. I would say it would be more interesting actually to see tier 3 lands to not be vanished weekly and MAYBE give lets say 20 pts a week (instead of 10 pts like other lands) then it would bring the game into totally new level and it could possibly make the xTW gain more activity and bring new strategies to bidding, so the top guilds wouldnt hold so many low tier lands. Currently bidding tier 3 land in most of the cases is pointless in a long run and its why most guilds completely ignore it.

b/ The thing that wasnt mentioned at all in this topic is that during this season we had 29 guilds that ranked (gained at least once land), but there were a few guilds that did try to bid a few times and never succeed (as example Kakumau from TT). Yet out of those 29 guilds in the last weeks of xTW i believe max 16/17 were bidding still (Vindicate, Echo, Knights, Meteora, Obsolete from TT / Crisis, Infamous, Kylin, Zulu, Elysium from Da / Karma, Faith, GoldDgrz and Indignant from Et / Tempest, Dynasty and maybe QQme from Ti). Why? Because to fight in xTW u need not only numbers, but strong members... No disrespect to all these other smaller guilds which I would love to see participate more in xTW (I myself had that issue while trying to xTW with Vengeful), but guilds like Elysium, Meteora, BOOTYCAMP etc having just 10-15 ppl coming to xTW cant often compete with even alts from the top 6 guilds. At the end a lot of those smaller guilds quit doing xTW, because if u look at the map - out of the 32 lands tier 1 : Vindicate (4 lands), Karma (4 lands), Crisis (1 land), Tempest (5 lands), Echo (3 lands) - this is over half of the lands on the map. Now You wanna decrease the numbers of lands by half? Ok, sure there will be more lands under attack and it will create situations it will be harder for some guilds to accumulate many lands, yet again the top 6 guilds need just 1 squad of mains and 1 squad of alts to keep land from a lot of bidding guilds. At the end it will completely kill the possibility of smaller guilds to bid and have fun in xTW. War between Knights and Zulu like last week would be very unlikely to happen. So here coming back to point A. I would attract bidding on tier 2 and 3, so smaller guilds can have their fun on tier 1 lands, while bigger guilds compete on tier 2 and 3. What we see after first month is that a lot of guilds dont bid in xTW because there is no chance for them to compete and have fun (kinda like in regular TW map) - example Corvinus, BankaiGOD, etc.

c/ Similiar problem hits the tier 2 lands. There is maximum of 6 guilds that are even interested in bidding there - Crisis, Infamous, Echo, Vindicate, Karma, Tempest (for a short time Zulu and Dynasty bid there). Why other guilds dont bid tier 2 land? Simply as it is they are too small and too weak to fight those other 6 guilds in most of the cases. Some would maybe also bid on tier 2 land if they accumulated 2-3 lands tier 1 (so even if they lose one of those lands they can give a try on tier 2), but as mentioned before with top 6 guilds holding all tier 2 lands and over half of the tier 1 lands its almost impossible to happen. Cutting the ammount of tier 2 lands by half wont fix it, because mid and small guilds will feel discouraged and will end up giving wine instances. At the end again it leads to a situation that maybe 4~5 guilds from each server will try to xTW.

Holding tier 3 lands (8 of them in total) would probably push the top 6 guilds to fight more for tier 2 and 3 lands (not tier 1), while mid size guilds like Faith, GoldDgrz, Kylin, etc could fight for tier 1 and 2 lands, still giving the chance for smaller guilds to fight on tier 1 lands (knowing that sometimes they will hit some big guild and lose, but least from time to time they will have a chance). Some sort of solution could be setting a limit of lands a guild can hold. Surely the population in all servers isnt good enough, but because of that we should give a chance to those mid size and small size guilds to participate instead of killing their fun and neglecting them from server events / forcing them to join bigger guilds.

dingo488

wadzio wrote: »

It fills until all lands are taken then it goes random, there is no pattern in that...

There's absolutely a ''pattern''. The reason factions didn't get their Swirling Lands attacked for multiple weeks is because the past 3 weeks there have been a total of 3 attacks of Swirling Dragon Camp lands. While it's true the prediction was off, that was mostly because factions significantly changed their pattern towards the end of the season, compared to the rest of the season. The only basis I had when making a prediction was the rest of the season, sure it was a wrong prediction at the time, but it's still better to use data when making a prediction than to just flip a coin and hope you're right.

wadzio wrote: »

Yet no matter what I believe none will come and say that Vindicate didnt deserve to win this xTW season. Yes, Crisis could be the strongest guild in xTW or have the strongest top 60 setup, but well their leadership played it rly poorly which also in my opinion killed their members fun (think thru all 6 months you folks had literally 3 wars worth calling them fun). Gotta also say Echo did a nice come back at the end of the season and climbed high on ranks. Same as Infamous surprised many beating Crisis... Pretty much this season everyone won with someone and everyone lost to someone

While I agree that Crisis' decisions were absolutely awful, I don't think anyone but Vindicate thinks they deserved to win over Crisis. It could be a different story for Karma (since they were also helped significantly by the server crash). But rolling back the server didn't fix anything, lands generate points every single week, and as you said, your lands don't get attacked for 2 months, no ones lands are getting attacked twice in a row, once 1 land gets attacked, it won't be attacked again until 2 months later. 2 months = 80 points per land, and Karma still owns 2 of the lands that got ''saved'' by the crash, and Vindicate still owns 3. That's looking like a free 160~240 points, which obviously would bump Crisis into first place. And if certain lands got attacked multiple times in succession that would be because of something I brought up on a different thread, which was the server maintenance. Like I said, it was never confirmed, but I felt like they were running server maintenance which reset the match history, and make Land A, B and C get attacked all over again while it was the turn of land H, I, J to get attacked. Wasn't confirmed however so mostly not worth discussing. Aside from that, factions claiming the same land got attacked 3 weeks in a row probably just failed to properly keep track of their battles, that doesn't happen. Then again, who ''deserved'' to win the season isn't worth discussing to be honest, imo this season is pretty fkd either way and there's no telling who really should've won, there'll be a winner and they'll get their rewards and we all have to accept that and hope next season will play out properly. So it really doesn't matter.

wadzio wrote: »

The point system is not as much of a trouble IMO. It actually gives u a chance to compete on many different levels. I would say it would be more interesting actually to see tier 3 lands to not be vanished weekly and MAYBE give lets say 20 pts a week (instead of 10 pts like other lands) then it would bring the game into totally new level and it could possibly make the xTW gain more activity and bring new strategies to bidding, so the top guilds wouldnt hold so many low tier lands. Currently bidding tier 3 land in most of the cases is pointless in a long run and its why most guilds completely ignore it.

More lands = More clutter = More reason to no-show each other. Just look at your own match history this season, the season lasted months, and you can count your actual big fights on 1 hand. This goes for every faction.

wadzio wrote: »

The thing that wasnt mentioned at all in this topic is that during this season we had 29 guilds that ranked (gained at least once land), but there were a few guilds that did try to bid a few times and never succeed (as example Kakumau from TT). Yet out of those 29 guilds in the last weeks of xTW i believe max 16/17 were bidding still (Vindicate, Echo, Knights, Meteora, Obsolete from TT / Crisis, Infamous, Kylin, Zulu, Elysium from Da / Karma, Faith, GoldDgrz and Indignant from Et / Tempest, Dynasty and maybe QQme from Ti)

It's really hard to draw any conclusion out of this. Your list is obviously inaccurate as there were a lot of faction bidding that may or may not have never found success. You're even missing factions that did in fact find success. I believe the amount of factions bidding mostly stayed the same but like I said, it's hard to draw a conclusion because no one has enough data for it. I can definitely say that we fought factions not included on your list, Infamous lost this weekend to a faction not included on your list. Not really worth discussing unless we have full data.

wadzio wrote: »

Similiar problem hits the tier 2 lands. There is maximum of 6 guilds that are even interested in bidding there - Crisis, Infamous, Echo, Vindicate, Karma, Tempest (for a short time Zulu and Dynasty bid there). Why other guilds dont bid tier 2 land? Simply as it is they are too small and too weak to fight those other 6 guilds in most of the cases. Some would maybe also bid on tier 2 land if they accumulated 2-3 lands tier 1 (so even if they lose one of those lands they can give a try on tier 2), but as mentioned before with top 6 guilds holding all tier 2 lands and over half of the tier 1 lands its almost impossible to happen. Cutting the ammount of tier 2 lands by half wont fix it, because mid and small guilds will feel discouraged and will end up giving wine instances. At the end again it leads to a situation that maybe 4~5 guilds from each server will try to xTW.

Yes, and no. Cutting the amount of Tier 2 lands in half probably wont make smaller factions attack it more often, true. But it will disable the option of each big faction taking 5 Tier 2 lands and generate more points than could possibly be generated from Dragon's Meet, which will influence the activity of the big factions. A faction owning 1 in each tier gets 60 points per week. For a faction that refuses to attack Dragon's Meet to generate 60 points per week will be extremely difficult if the lands were halved, exactly because of the bidding pattern, that you're just gonna have to believe exists. Almost exactly as hard as it is to earn 120 points per week right now, which no faction has done so far. But it's like I said before in the thread, it's a choice PWI needs to make. If they cater to small factions then it'll be not as good for big factions, and if they cater to the big factions it'll be not as good for small factions.

sin20

Thing is if a faction reaches a point where they got 10 lands and out of that only like 4 wars shows whats wrong with our version of xTW , in china because of amount of servers and their population they dont have problems we got .
Our current biding meta is basically bid t1 and t2 , generate more lands and avoid fights to secure more points which is fine but its also something thats killing xtw , during the duration of 6 months no one can say each week they had good fights because most of the time factions avoided fighting each other , and dont tell me 'good fights' are when a top tier faction fights against a faction that cant come close with numbers nor gear xD
TWs on each server are more or less dead , only thing where top factions got some challenge is xTW so no offense to any smaller factions but event was designed for cross server fights , not for small factions , that being said if pwe wants more faction to be active in xtw few things would need to change like amount of land one faction can hold , if small to mid sized faction bids xtw and sees echo or any top tier faction in 90% of the cases they would wine them , but what happens if they bid and see echo and that same echo got 9 more wars on their lands , well in that case anything can happen.
One of main problems in our version is server population and amount of servers , we got way to many lands and way to few strong factions with good numbers , like i said in previous post if top 5-6 factions hold almost 30-40 lands together dont tell me nothing is wrong with xtw xD
If u wanna hoard lands and avoid fights thats what TW is for imo (why turn xTW into same thing as TW xD) , but PWE should aim to at least make xTW more competitive and see how it would be good to change it.

keihan007#7641

dingo488 wrote: »

While I agree that Crisis' decisions were absolutely awful, I don't think anyone but Vindicate thinks they deserved to win over Crisis. It could be a different story for Karma (since they were also helped significantly by the server crash). But rolling back the server didn't fix anything, lands generate points every single week, and as you said, your lands don't get attacked for 2 months, no ones lands are getting attacked twice in a row, once 1 land gets attacked, it won't be attacked again until 2 months later.

It depends what you call deserved. I personally dont think Crisis deserved to win, not with the idiotic bidding strategy they showed. If you only consider who is the strongest faction with most ppl attending? Thats Crisis but while there is also luck involvement in xTW, Crisis really cant go behind that excuse. They lost because of their bidding strategy, which is important part of xTW. Should the bidding strategies revolve around having the most lower tier lands? Prolly not but as it stands, the factions who adapted also succeeded.

So in short, Vindi deserved their win as much as any faction would when there is massive glitch in the season. Its not ideal situation for anybody but they have the most points and thats what matters.

scruncy

There is a simple solution to all of this: A land that doesnt get attacked doesnt generate points.
Match factions according to ranking , high ranking v high ranking and low v low.
Problem solved.

booker27

Ppl are suddenly worried about small factions? they werent worried about small factions getting good fights when they attacked them in tw to quickly gain lands so whys xtw different? lol isn't xtw sipposed to be about the best factions of each server facing in each other anyway? I remember china had like a 5 land tw req. to bid for xtw or something

dingo488

saxroll wrote: »

It depends what you call deserved. I personally dont think Crisis deserved to win, not with the idiotic bidding strategy they showed. If you only consider who is the strongest faction with most ppl attending? Thats Crisis but while there is also luck involvement in xTW, Crisis really cant go behind that excuse. They lost because of their bidding strategy, which is important part of xTW. Should the bidding strategies revolve around having the most lower tier lands? Prolly not but as it stands, the factions who adapted also succeeded.

So in short, Vindi deserved their win as much as any faction would when there is massive glitch in the season. Its not ideal situation for anybody but they have the most points and thats what matters.

It's a fair point, you can't really push any narrative this season because no one really knows what would have happened, which is a frustration I expressed in my video. I guess we just have to wait for next season and hope it runs better (and I still hope there'll be changes though it's probably a bit too late for that at this point)

sin20

I also think that 6 month season is way to long , factions that fall behind early if they end up getting stronger they cant really catch up to top 3-4 factions since they would have already made a massive lead compared to rest , similar to how this season top 3 factions on rankings were known since start of 3rd month , and with 2 many lands and not enough factions its impossible for them to catch up.
Lets look hypothetically we have vindi who at start of season is stronger than echo , they get more points , make a good lead compared to them , 2-3 months into season echo gets some new ppl vindi looses some and echo ends up being stronger , because there is 2 many land and not enough factions to grab them by the time echo catches up on land vindi will have a good lead and then both factions sit on 5-6 lands and get equal amount of points because there is 2 many 'free' land there is no way for echo to catch up in points in time.
Thats just an example , this season infamous was by strength proly 2nd across all servers but due to having a bad start cause of what i explained they never were able to catch up to top 3 and fight for top rewards , same goes for echo they could have fought fo 3rd place imo but neither could catch up cause of free land.

Now if amount of land got reduced it would prevent this kind of situations , that would mean that all lands would end up being bid almost every week and there woudnt be any free lands (by that i mean just look at echo , 10 lands 5-6 free lands without wars) and would force factions to fight each other more and with shorter season it would be way more competitive compared to now , another possibility is to adjust amount of points each land gives.

dingo488

Hey now, Echo beat Infamous this weekend you know but yes, I agree with most your points. And having 5 battles with 10 lands was a LOT, compared to our usual weeks. When we had 8/9 lands we'd have 2 battles at most, granted it was in part because thats how we picked our lands, but still, it's not very good for a competition.

sin20

dingo488 wrote: »

Hey now, Echo beat Infamous this weekend you know but yes, I agree with most your points. And having 5 battles with 10 lands was a LOT, compared to our usual weeks. When we had 8/9 lands we'd have 2 battles at most, granted it was in part because thats how we picked our lands, but still, it's not very good for a competition.

Man everyone knows Echo beat Infa , Infa members are having special training these days , they are spamming UCH focusing on dragons in wind part.
Kappa.

valdisman

scruncy wrote: »

There is a simple solution to all of this: A land that doesnt get attacked doesnt generate points.
Problem solved.

This, although it's been mentioned many times before. Only seems fair that if you don't defend or win a land, then you shouldn't get points for it. That strategy worked out really well for Crysis but other factions were generating masses of points for 1/2 fights for weeks in a row while have 5+ lands against far weaker factions so they lost out in the end.

But this is PWI, don't expect anything to change as it never has done. It only changes for the worse.

wadzio

dingo488 wrote: »

wadzio wrote: »

It fills until all lands are taken then it goes random, there is no pattern in that...

There's absolutely a ''pattern''. The reason factions didn't get their Swirling Lands attacked for multiple weeks is because the past 3 weeks there have been a total of 3 attacks of Swirling Dragon Camp lands. While it's true the prediction was off, that was mostly because factions significantly changed their pattern towards the end of the season, compared to the rest of the season. The only basis I had when making a prediction was the rest of the season, sure it was a wrong prediction at the time, but it's still better to use data when making a prediction than to just flip a coin and hope you're right.

LOL there was more. Actually 2 weeks in a row Vindicate (4 and 3 weeks ago) had the attack war on same land of Infamous (#5 @ Swirling Dragon). Again. At start of the season Legendary and Origin held their tier 2 lands for around 2 months without being attacked while pretty much 8 guilds used to bid tier 2 lands (Vindicate, Echo, Dynasty, Infamous, Tempest, Karma, Zulu, QQme). Forgot Echo was attacking weekly Swirling Dragon and weekly getting Vindicate for like 3 weeks in a row... Please just please.... shush... Yes only thing that is right its ammount of bids can increase deeds of havin more defences, specially when u have 8-9 lands for few weeks. For now u r the only one looking like u r flipping the coin and trying to predict LOL

wadzio wrote: »

Yet no matter what I believe none will come and say that Vindicate didnt deserve to win this xTW season. Yes, Crisis could be the strongest guild in xTW or have the strongest top 60 setup, but well their leadership played it rly poorly which also in my opinion killed their members fun (think thru all 6 months you folks had literally 3 wars worth calling them fun). Gotta also say Echo did a nice come back at the end of the season and climbed high on ranks. Same as Infamous surprised many beating Crisis... Pretty much this season everyone won with someone and everyone lost to someone

While I agree that Crisis' decisions were absolutely awful, I don't think anyone but Vindicate thinks they deserved to win over Crisis. It could be a different story for Karma (since they were also helped significantly by the server crash). But rolling back the server didn't fix anything, lands generate points every single week, and as you said, your lands don't get attacked for 2 months, no ones lands are getting attacked twice in a row, once 1 land gets attacked, it won't be attacked again until 2 months later. 2 months = 80 points per land, and Karma still owns 2 of the lands that got ''saved'' by the crash, and Vindicate still owns 3. That's looking like a free 160~240 points, which obviously would bump Crisis into first place. And if certain lands got attacked multiple times in succession that would be because of something I brought up on a different thread, which was the server maintenance. Like I said, it was never confirmed, but I felt like they were running server maintenance which reset the match history, and make Land A, B and C get attacked all over again while it was the turn of land H, I, J to get attacked. Wasn't confirmed however so mostly not worth discussing. Aside from that, factions claiming the same land got attacked 3 weeks in a row probably just failed to properly keep track of their battles, that doesn't happen. Then again, who ''deserved'' to win the season isn't worth discussing to be honest, imo this season is pretty fkd either way and there's no telling who really should've won, there'll be a winner and they'll get their rewards and we all have to accept that and hope next season will play out properly. So it really doesn't matter.

Server crashing this season didnt influence at all in final results since there was roll back (which didnt happen in previous seasons when other glitches happened). I would say this was one of the actually most fair seasons, on previous ones there was always some issue and nothing was ever done.. Actually the only guild that benefit from the roll back was Crisis who changed their strategy and for 2 weeks bid on tier 2 lands realizing they would be by a lot point behind Vindicate and Karma otherwise. Again ur patterns and maintainence... Like I mentioned Vindicate had 2 weeks in a row attack war on Infamous on same land. Your points are invalid and have no cover, so the way you count points is as useless too, specially since u still fail to understand main issue is how many bids are placed and which lvl of land (again since all were bidding on tier 1 land was why 2 and 3 weeks ago we had to defend all our tier 1 lands than last week just 1 fight while apparently almost everybody bid tier 1!!! the pattern, young Nostradamous!!!!)... Of course I understand u wont believe me, because you are blinded by ur vindicate crusade, but ask ppl from Infamous about it... Also quite honest Vindicate every week had 4-6 wars and we pulled fine... yes I know its hard to admit and say anything good about the guild u hate so much

wadzio wrote: »

The point system is not as much of a trouble IMO. It actually gives u a chance to compete on many different levels. I would say it would be more interesting actually to see tier 3 lands to not be vanished weekly and MAYBE give lets say 20 pts a week (instead of 10 pts like other lands) then it would bring the game into totally new level and it could possibly make the xTW gain more activity and bring new strategies to bidding, so the top guilds wouldnt hold so many low tier lands. Currently bidding tier 3 land in most of the cases is pointless in a long run and its why most guilds completely ignore it.

More lands = More clutter = More reason to no-show each other. Just look at your own match history this season, the season lasted months, and you can count your actual big fights on 1 hand. This goes for every faction.

We did have plenty of good fights. Not always 60 v 60, but also very honest.... Even infamous didnt bring full 60 to ur last war... There is just Karma, Vindicate, Echo, Crisis and Tempest who surely can bring 60~100 ppl to every xTW (we had few weeks of over 100 participants without alts, I know Crisis had few times 12 squads). We did have 2-3 fights 60 v 60 with Echo, 2 with Infamous, 1 with Crisis, 1 with Tempest. But also we had many fights of 40ish-50ish like against Faith, Karma, Zulu, etc. Again.... Small and mid size guilds stop bidding, they dont have enough lands to fight - its like expecting Corvinus to bid Echo or Vindicate in regular TW map. If top guild accumulate like 3-4 lands and they will do it without bigger problem they will just defend what they sure can defend and they wont show full power. Imagine Infamous has 60 ppl for XTW and they have 4 lands. They get wars vs Echo, Meteora, Faith and BOOTYCAMP. Now please tell me u expect them to show to u knowing u have 10 squads for xTW and u will for sure show full 60 while they risk losing 3 lands and 30 points (+ multiplies over next weeks?)... FFS logic, dude!!! If tier 3 lands wouldnt vanish and they would give 20 pts, the top guilds would be interested in having them, they wouldnt be as interested in holding as many low tier lands, which again would give a chance to small guilds to compete against each other... The no shows will happen regardless... only thing u still fail to see is that less guilds will participate in XTW hence less wars will occur and even if few guilds have few wars, they will start trading lands or having small wars of 30 vs 30, because most of guilds either dont have 60 for xTW or wont throw all they have into just 1 war... You really dont get it?!??!

wadzio wrote: »

The thing that wasnt mentioned at all in this topic is that during this season we had 29 guilds that ranked (gained at least once land), but there were a few guilds that did try to bid a few times and never succeed (as example Kakumau from TT). Yet out of those 29 guilds in the last weeks of xTW i believe max 16/17 were bidding still (Vindicate, Echo, Knights, Meteora, Obsolete from TT / Crisis, Infamous, Kylin, Zulu, Elysium from Da / Karma, Faith, GoldDgrz and Indignant from Et / Tempest, Dynasty and maybe QQme from Ti)

It's really hard to draw any conclusion out of this. Your list is obviously inaccurate as there were a lot of faction bidding that may or may not have never found success. You're even missing factions that did in fact find success. I believe the amount of factions bidding mostly stayed the same but like I said, it's hard to draw a conclusion because no one has enough data for it. I can definitely say that we fought factions not included on your list, Infamous lost this weekend to a faction not included on your list. Not really worth discussing unless we have full data.

Again I said I believe... I didnt say Im sure... Pretty sure it was less than 20 bids though.... Conclusion is that with start of every TW or xTW season there is always a lot of guilds bidding, because there is some chance to have a fight and even win a land. Want an example? Aloha. do you think if Aloha with same personal squad would try to bid at the end of the season in XTW they would win a land and be ranked? They bid at start of xTW season and managed to win once, losing a few times too. We had guilds like BankaiGOD, HellSings that bid at start a few times, won few lands then stopped xTWing at all. Again main issue those mid and small guild usually stop bidding because they feel discouraged by getting rekt weekly by top guilds that hold 70% of all lands. So hence less bids, less wars happen, less defences, less need to split ur power, etc...

wadzio wrote: »

Similiar problem hits the tier 2 lands. There is maximum of 6 guilds that are even interested in bidding there - Crisis, Infamous, Echo, Vindicate, Karma, Tempest (for a short time Zulu and Dynasty bid there). Why other guilds dont bid tier 2 land? Simply as it is they are too small and too weak to fight those other 6 guilds in most of the cases. Some would maybe also bid on tier 2 land if they accumulated 2-3 lands tier 1 (so even if they lose one of those lands they can give a try on tier 2), but as mentioned before with top 6 guilds holding all tier 2 lands and over half of the tier 1 lands its almost impossible to happen. Cutting the ammount of tier 2 lands by half wont fix it, because mid and small guilds will feel discouraged and will end up giving wine instances. At the end again it leads to a situation that maybe 4~5 guilds from each server will try to xTW.

Yes, and no. Cutting the amount of Tier 2 lands in half probably wont make smaller factions attack it more often, true. But it will disable the option of each big faction taking 5 Tier 2 lands and generate more points than could possibly be generated from Dragon's Meet, which will influence the activity of the big factions. A faction owning 1 in each tier gets 60 points per week. For a faction that refuses to attack Dragon's Meet to generate 60 points per week will be extremely difficult if the lands were halved, exactly because of the bidding pattern, that you're just gonna have to believe exists. Almost exactly as hard as it is to earn 120 points per week right now, which no faction has done so far. But it's like I said before in the thread, it's a choice PWI needs to make. If they cater to small factions then it'll be not as good for big factions, and if they cater to the big factions it'll be not as good for small factions.

Ok let me explain u in other way.... We have 32 lands tier 1, 16 tier 2. This gives u a chance of having max 48 battles per week. We cut everything by half as u wish... there will be 8 lands tier 2 and 16 lands tier 1, which means max 24 wars a week. Now as mentioned before... With your idea in the first week the max ammount of guilds that can bid tier 1 lands is equal to 32 as 2 guilds fight for all 16 lands tier 1 (last season we had 29 guilds ranked as mentioned before there was plenty of guilds that participated and never succeed). So pretty much in the first week we will already have guilds that cant participate in xTW. 2nd week most likely majority of guilds even if they won tier 1 land will bid again on another tier 1 land. Now most of the mid / small size guilds who lost the first week will bid again on tier 1. Imagine guilds like Meteora, Obsolete, Knights, Elysium, Indignant get paired with top 6 guilds from last season. The top guild will have to put like 15 ppl in such war and will win as they can still have attack on lets say Faith, Zulu, GoldDgrz and beat them with even 30 ppl. Lets say all top guilds bid tier 1 land... Pretty much after 2nd week all lands tier 1 will be held by top 12 factions from last season. Moreover lets say 30 guilds would like to bid on tier 1 and well there is just 16 lands... A lot of guilds cant even participate again, the list increases more... Top guilds still have no problem defending those tier 1 lands from most of small / mid sized guilds, if on 3rd week they bid tier 2 and get some strong guild, if they dont have enough numbers they will dodge the fight, to defend tier 1 land again... The effect will be that we will have even less wars, xTW will become an event only for big guilds and empty wars will occur even more (as some1 else mentioned at least now Meteora or Bootycamp will show up to Echo hoping you gotta split ur numbers into more wars, not just 2-3)... Once all mid and small sized guilds get tired of not being able to fight, those 24 lands will be surely held by 8 to 10 guilds, all that will happen is that some guilds will trade lands and it will keep status quo. Yes, those guilds wont probably have 6-7 lands like its possible to happen now, but also cuz they are too small and they wont bother risking fighting for tier 3 land. Even if lets say there is 8 tier 2 lands and every guild holds 1 land - vindicate, echo, karma, crisis, infamous, qqme, tempest and all of them bid also tier 2. Now imagine Infamous have war vs Crisis and QQme. They wont pull 30 ppl to every instance, cuz they will risk losing both... Meanwhile Echo as example might put 30-40 in QQme and still max fill Crisis and be able to win both, which will lead to accumulating lands maybe in smaller way.. But the risk of losing tier 1 and 2 lands while trying to win tier 3 land and then not gaining any points next will make guilds even less interested in bidding tier 3 lands... It would work if we had 12-15 guilds bringing ~80ish ppl to every xTW... but it wont happen... and at the end we just neglect the community from being able to participate in events.

sin20

Well even last season we had factions at start that coudnt bid xtw , first week of the season not all T1 lands were taken saying every faction wouldnt be able to bid at 1st week doesnt matter since they coudnt even before xD
What would change now is that there woudnt be any empty wars if lands got reduced top tier factions if they got multiple t1 and t2 wars would have 4-5 wars if they decide on that strategy and would actually have to fight all 5 wars to try to defend , this gives smaller factions bigger chances to win a land from them compared to now where factions barely get 2-3 wars on 6-8 lands.
And with less land on the board and same amount of top tier factions they cant reach the point of having 10 land with barely 3-4 wars , so some will have to adapt their strategies , more factions try biding t3 land and etc.
Like i said in china they dont have problems we do , with more servers and more top factions this works for them , but for us this just doesnt work , having 50% less lands in xtw would actually make xtw how china designed it originally.
Top factions fighting smaller factions is the same now as it would be then , only thing that would be removed is the free land factions have that dont get attacked, every faction that had 5-10 land most of the season they barely got 50% of fights on them , in china if a faction reaches 5 lands they got 5 wars , here maybe 1-2.

Mid sized guilds will still be able to fight top factions if they got all 5 lands attacked but small factions wont have much chances but honestly this is a cross server event , its designed for top factions of each server to fight each other , not for small factions of barely 10 ppl fighting a faction of 60 ppl , for smaller factions there is TW , if they can get bigger they can do more in xtw and thats how it should be xD

"But the risk of losing tier 1 and 2 lands while trying to win tier 3 land and then not gaining any points next will make guilds even less interested in bidding tier 3 lands.."
How do u think the event actually works? Thats how its suposed to be , the event was designed so that u shoudnt be able to actually get so many land how most factions get , so there is an option factions have , fight for t1 t2 which is safer and less points , or you fight for t3 and get more points , high risk - high reward.
5-10 man small factions atm loose to few alts from big factions so they would be in same situation even with reduced land , only factions that go for more land would end up having more wars and thats how it should be , either that or increase the value of T3 by 20-30 points , whats the point of going T3 and fight for less points when factions can just hoard free land and end up getting more points like that with no wars.
And THATS the main problem we got in xtw , and cause of that longer xtw season just makes it worse since factions cant catch up on time if they fall behind cause theres to many free land and everyone gets same amount of points per week , thats why echo and infamous even though they got stronger than they were at start of season never really had the chance to catch up to fight for top 3.

dingo488

wadzio wrote: »

Ok let me explain u in other way.... We have 32 lands tier 1, 16 tier 2. This gives u a chance of having max 48 battles per week. We cut everything by half as u wish... there will be 8 lands tier 2 and 16 lands tier 1, which means max 24 wars a week. Now as mentioned before... With your idea in the first week the max ammount of guilds that can bid tier 1 lands is equal to 32 as 2 guilds fight for all 16 lands tier 1 (last season we had 29 guilds ranked as mentioned before there was plenty of guilds that participated and never succeed). So pretty much in the first week we will already have guilds that cant participate in xTW.

Correct, I'm aware. xTW is made to be a competition, not a ''let's all participate with our 20-man factions event''. If you look at the list of rules, you actually have to qualify to bid, where owning more lands in the TW map puts you in front of another faction that doesn't own as many lands. This rule was put in place for a very good reason. I'm not sure how you imagine this to be in China, but I'm pretty sure it's literally only the #1, or maybe #1/#2 from each server that gets to participate. And I've said this countless time, PWI can't cater to both, that's when you get the boring stuff you have right now.

As for the example that factions will still try to take multiple Tier 2 lands, I think that'd be a stupid strategy. Sure it works out the first week, as you state, for the big factions. But the week after both lands will get attacked again and then suddenly it can't be defended. One of the major reasons there's no many no-shows right now is because factions don't know how many battles everyone has. If almost every land gets attacked every week that will knock out this ''mystery'' and it should increase activity. It's exactly as Sin20 says, if you take low risk there's a low reward. Whereas high risks carries a high reward. Right now the exact opposite is the case, you can attack Swirling Dragon Camp and its the easiest battle you'll ever have, speaking from experience, yet it's the most rewarding land you can take. Ultimately that just boils down to a lottery as to which faction lucks out through-out the season and dodges the big dogs, which isn't good.

wadzio

sin20 wrote: »

Well even last season we had factions at start that coudnt bid xtw , first week of the season not all T1 lands were taken saying every faction wouldnt be able to bid at 1st week doesnt matter since they coudnt even before xD

You make no sense with this - you are just negating what u say first with what u say later. All lands werent taken in first week, because there was not enough bidders. if we had 64 guilds bidding, we would have 32 battlefields ready in first week and then also 32 guilds on the ranking directly after first week. So no you are wrong and the issue will remain.

What would change now is that there woudnt be any empty wars if lands got reduced top tier factions if they got multiple t1 and t2 wars would have 4-5 wars if they decide on that strategy and would actually have to fight all 5 wars to try to defend , this gives smaller factions bigger chances to win a land from them compared to now where factions barely get 2-3 wars on 6-8 lands.

Again u dont fully make sense I agree with one thing... Most likely u would have all lands under attack every week... since a lot of big guilds actually accumulated lands all previous seasons the only difference would be that they wouldnt accumulate as many.. Instead of lets say 6 lands they will accumulate 4... But since it will effect all the only difference is that we will just see all guilds gain less points... but also in the meantime... u keep not looking at the part i said before... our guilds are way too innactive. there is just 4 guilds that can put full 60 in a tier 3 war and still lets say defend tier 1 land. Yet if u look at past season... even Crisis when put 60 ppl to Infamous, lost to Kylin in a 30ish v 30 ish... Part you completely make no sense is that that it will give smaller factions more chances to win... if big guilds dont accumulate more lands and dont get unlucky by gettting too many wars as mentioned before big guilds will just need alts and few mains to beat small guilds.

And with less land on the board and same amount of top tier factions they cant reach the point of having 10 land with barely 3-4 wars , so some will have to adapt their strategies , more factions try biding t3 land and etc.
Like i said in china they dont have problems we do , with more servers and more top factions this works for them , but for us this just doesnt work , having 50% less lands in xtw would actually make xtw how china designed it originally.
Top factions fighting smaller factions is the same now as it would be then , only thing that would be removed is the free land factions have that dont get attacked, every faction that had 5-10 land most of the season they barely got 50% of fights on them , in china if a faction reaches 5 lands they got 5 wars , here maybe 1-2.

The problem is small population and guilds not really participating in the event. Like I mentioned before... if we have only 4-5 guilds in entire xTW that bring over 60 ppl to xTW then if u have 1 land on tier 1 and 1 land on tier 2 and then u wanna attack tier 3 - then u dont have ppl to actually fill even 2 battlefields. it will lead to empty instances, because of the fact "we had too many wars, not enough ppl". Like I mentioned before if lets say a mid size guild have 2 wars and one of the wars will be against top 5-6 guilds they wont show to the top guild, because they know those guilds will be always able to equal the numbers and still win. I would say that maybe could work if we decreased the numbers of ppl per instance to 40 then. I would believe smaller factions in china would still bring 40-50 ppl, while big guilds would have 150 ppl to cover 3 wars, while we cant even think about it.

How do u think the event actually works? Thats how its suposed to be , the event was designed so that u shoudnt be able to actually get so many land how most factions get , so there is an option factions have , fight for t1 t2 which is safer and less points , or you fight for t3 and get more points , high risk - high reward.

I dont think the event was made for u to accumulate lands, but to actually be able to fight in them. I think u keep missing this point. Even if all guilds bid like Crisis in lets call it " China designed way". it would mean u should have 2/3 wars a week for every top guild. Problem is - like i keep repeating myself - we wont get fights because except 4-5 guilds we dont have numbers to play it that way. I will again agree it would be a good idea if the numbers would be decreased to lets say 40, cuz then:
a. big guilds could actually multi defend and play it in designated way.
b. mid size guilds wouldnt be rolled just because enemy had 2 squads more than them.

5-10 man small factions atm loose to few alts from big factions so they would be in same situation even with reduced land , only factions that go for more land would end up having more wars and thats how it should be , either that or increase the value of T3 by 20-30 points , whats the point of going T3 and fight for less points when factions can just hoard free land and end up getting more points like that with no wars.

yea increasing value of those lands would be good to force guilds to bid on those lands - this is something i mentioned too. but also if u would reduce those by half means max 4 dragons meet battles.

wadzio

dingo488 wrote: »

Correct, I'm aware. xTW is made to be a competition, not a ''let's all participate with our 20-man factions event''. If you look at the list of rules, you actually have to qualify to bid, where owning more lands in the TW map puts you in front of another faction that doesn't own as many lands. This rule was put in place for a very good reason. I'm not sure how you imagine this to be in China, but I'm pretty sure it's literally only the #1, or maybe #1/#2 from each server that gets to participate. And I've said this countless time, PWI can't cater to both, that's when you get the boring stuff you have right now.

Ya if we would go by rules than Hoorah should be excluded from xTW since u didnt even have lands in normal TW map LOL as the very first point says:
1. Faction that owns 3+ territories in a single server are qualified to DECLARE war.
Hoorah didnt meet this requirement for 2 seasons of xTW. and basically i could finish talking with u about rules here, but since you are calling out the rules. I dont see them saying u cant participate with 20-man factions. Moreover the high ranked guilds on TW maps on each server are not much bigger than that! Knights that finished season as #2 on TT was actually a guild of max 30 ppl for xTW. Kylin that finished 2nd on Dawnglory server on TW map is also a guild of 30-40 ppl. Same goes for GoldDgrz on Et that was bringing close to 40. Yes we arent China to have 10 server with 10 sub servers, then they do Cross sub server events for each main server (basically if we had EU server with 10 subserver, the xTW would be made only for all 10 EU subservers, etc), which means pretty sure they have least 4-5 guilds to participate from each sub server. Again i will repeat our main issue is LOW POPULATION. if u r bringing those chineese guilds out im pretty sure they will bring 120-150 ppl to xTW, something we can dream on here. so yea we arent china to fill those instances as they will do and actually give all players the fun. Again not saying your idea is bad but it wont work with 60 ppl cap in a war, because it will be an event for just 5-6 guilds and will kill totally the fun for anyone else, not to mention to give them even a chance to participate. We arent China and we dont have to do things like them.

As for the example that factions will still try to take multiple Tier 2 lands, I think that'd be a stupid strategy. Sure it works out the first week, as you state, for the big factions. But the week after both lands will get attacked again and then suddenly it can't be defended. One of the major reasons there's no many no-shows right now is because factions don't know how many battles everyone has. If almost every land gets attacked every week that will knock out this ''mystery'' and it should increase activity. It's exactly as Sin20 says, if you take low risk there's a low reward. Whereas high risks carries a high reward. Right now the exact opposite is the case, you can attack Swirling Dragon Camp and its the easiest battle you'll ever have, speaking from experience, yet it's the most rewarding land you can take. Ultimately that just boils down to a lottery as to which faction lucks out through-out the season and dodges the big dogs, which isn't good.

Gawd... Ok need to explain it again. Lets say u are in Faith from Et. You have 1 tier 1 land. You wanna attack tier 2 land that is gonna be held by Vindicate / Echo / Karma / Crisis. Lets say each of them have 2 of those lvl 2 lands and 1 lvl 1 too. Man u just realized they might have 4 wars, but dang we Faith have 2 wars - we have Vindicate / Echo / Karma / Crisis and defence against Zulu on tier 1. we have just 4 squads what to do? Put 2 squads each war and lose both? risk putting all 4 in swirling and losing tier 1? Nah, lets ignore Vindicate / Echo / Karma / Crisis and defend Zulu, because even if we put all 40 on them they will put 30 or even more cuz they have close to 100 ppl for xTW and still roll us and we lose both. This is what is gonna be the mentality of all factions except those 4 (maybe Tempest also). Will be there mystery? No, on that you are right. Will it make any better for those battles? No. pretty sure the top 6 guilds if they dont meet each other they wont really have ppl showing up to them, unless those attacking guilds lucky out and dont have defence war. You want to have battles, but u will see even more empty instances as u see now. So like you are saying ppl wont risk and it wont change at all the activity in battles, moreover it will make less guilds be able to even bid which will lead to less activity. Now again main Problem is not point system or accumulating lands (if x guilds accumulate lands and x guilds have empty instances then it makes no difference between them anyway, since each of them have still same ammount of ACTIVE BATTLES - if u have 8 lands and u have 3 battles and win 3 while ur enemy has 7 lands and 4 battles and also wins all 4 of them the gap will be 10 points, same as if u would have 4 lands win 3 battles and ur enemy have 3 lands and win 2 wars - it will still be 10 points gap), but POPULATION. I would agree halving lands would be fine if u would also decrease the ammount of players per instance to lets say 40, otherwise it will be all about how u lucky out on ur opponents event, since u dont know who u will get. Right now u might get 6 fights with mediocre guilds and win all 6 as well as get 2-3 fights with op enemies and lose 2. But well without numbers (with 60 ppl capped instances) not many guilds will play risk strategy, because it wont benefit them. Imagine Infamous who has a nice top 60 (but they dont get more for xTW) will bid tier 3 land. Have war vs Crisis, but on tier 1 they have Knights and on tier 2 Faith. I wanna see them go for tier 3 land with full 60, risk losing points from tier 1 and 2 and not be sure of getting points from tier 3, knowing that Crisis will have no issue filling 60 in top instance. U know what it will lead into? The guilds that will risk bidding on tier 3 will lose either tier 1 or tier 2 land. Then next week they will be forced to retake either of those lands and there is gonna be a week so many guilds will be screwed there that one guild will bid tier 3 and get crystal walk and free 40 pts... and then im pretty sure all will come and QQ on forum on how stupid is that system that some1 can gain points like that without a fight while others have to run their asses to get 10 points per week.