Air Lock - Is it an exploit?

eirghan

@ellenfan if you wish to be automatically dismounted when you are attacked on a mount ride a mount with 0 loyalty.

kalystconquerer#0876

I haven't been ignoring this thread, by the way, if anyone's wondering. It's honestly because I haven't had time to really sit down with all the departments invloved and see what everyone's thoughts are. When I was still a player (well still am, but I mean a competitive player) I accepted air locking as just a consequence of TW- don't get trapped. That being said, I'm not saying take that as blanket approval. Will have to come back to this when I actually get a solid discussion going internally about it.

eirghan

Thanks @kalystconquerer#0876 i figured any clarification of rules might take time so we await your reply

blazerboy

Honestly when archers abused this years ago esp in 1v1 by flight high then falling and when enemy fell they would air stun/freeze if it were banned now after over 8yrs of abuse I'd be appalled

sensualsoul

Used my seeker to transpositioned a play near to our dragon in SvS and was told I was "glitching" him. Well hello wth?! I just use the skill as intented same as the reel-in skill would of done or a push skill. Use same skill to move someone closer to a SB vortex and they got "stuck" in the vortex was told I was "glitching" them...seems now if you use taht seeker skill with any forthought and a plan it's a "glitch". Seems someone like..oh I don't know...a GM maybe...needs to make clear what is and what isn't a glitch to some of these stupid people! And FYI sometime you just get stuck in the enviorment just running/jumping or moving fast, been glitching like that forever! Until they fix that I don't know how they will fix the "seeker" glitch, people get stuck, in objects all the time. And I think being stuck in the air is a glitch too since being "stuck" is a glitch in one instance it would be a glitch in all I would think! Stuck is stuck! What just because more classes are doing it it's okay? Fair is fair fix ALL the glitches that give the classes an upper hand over others. Oh yeah I went there!

fury85

This is an hard argument….
There are many way to lock in air and many situations.

Pushback. Many class like SB, Mystics and Archers can push back and stun right after. That can happen in mass pvp or 1v1, but in my opinion is a class mechanic and not even the terrain is plain. In this case i guess its hard to do something… very hard. Just to accept it and play around.

Pushback in an object. That’s a bit different. Pushback into an object make the target stuck in the graphic. Its not counter able and if did on purpose can be banned.

Pull in Air and Stun. Transposition in air, or reel-in and stun. Its annoying because you are not able to use skills in air. But need coordination to do that and you have many way to come back to the ground (genie, IG, put flyer). Just accept it and play around.

Lock in air while people jump. Well… many time happen to me that I use Ancestral Rage to stop someone running. But if the target jump he got immobilized in air. Another thing to play around.

SB vortex in air. I disagree with that because i find it much unfair because laso if you unstuck you can be pulled back a few time. But i think is not to “extreme” for a ban because you can counter it. But still harder to counter than other lock… here I will know what GM think.

To resume. In my opinion, until it can be countered can be accepted, maybe is unfair, maybe is annoying, sometime is just a class mechanic, but if you can counter it with genie, IG, jump on flyer, ecc you can play around. If something happen that you cannot counter it or play around can be object of investigation and ban from GMs.

This is only my opinion. Kalyst will update us with exact rules.

eirghan

@sensualsoul that is my experience as well. Basically any time you use transposition now *even if the player isnt stuck in graphics* you are dubbed a glitcher and are told people will report you. So it will be good to clarify.

blazerboy

My experience with this stem from archers flying max height and falling now with this pushback. Don't get me wrong I think they should have it but this is the only time I REALLY feel it. Idk anyone else besides that perhaps transposition

valdisman

This is the only real way a certain DB can kill people on Et is by pulling them into air xD Its also the tactic Karma have used for a while as they get rolled on the ground.

They can not ban this type of pvp without completely killing off pvp altogether. Yeah its annoying that you have to use an apoth or genie to get free and then that leaves you a bit more vulnerable till its cd, but take pride in knowing that this is sometimes the only way cash shoppers can kill you If they dont know their toon well enough to kill you outright without the need for pulling you into the terrain or air locking, whos the real winner?

soulstormer

WTB some gravity maybe. There's no reason getting cc'd should stop you from falling back down to the ground, but alas it does

magiceffect

Ain't happening, too much work needed.

PWI does not afford/want to care about this aspect (that much). You guys are initiating a discussion where PWI representatives are forced to say "we will look at this, we treat this seriously", but cannot do much about it anyway.

The path they seem to take, is provide more means of control, maybe in hopes of dilluting the advantages that used to only be held by one class.

Being from Romania (interesting developments lately over here), I can only laugh a bit about this. When only one person steals, its a crime. If all do, it suddenly becomes acceptable. Welcome to communism.

freygin

heero200 wrote: »

Kalyst will have last word on this.

Anything that is used as not intended is an exploit. Killing the Soul in AEU with Psy skill /cleric skill... 1 shot the last boss in FSP really its banable by the ToS. Sadly yet again due to not being enforced like many other things... not a lot will be done about it.​​

Those have been in the game since forever, you know them, I know them, the dev and the publisher should also know them by now.

Once an exploit has been found and the next-next patches do nothing to fix it, let's all just agree it's intended.

That soul does attack, has low hp, and is not immune to debuffs,
it's like the spheres in trial 8 iirc, only bleed dot with no dmg can land, so only veno's lv 100 skill with random debuff including bleed can land and kill them without doing it the hard way
1 shot the last boss in fsp too

They're all legal to me now because not only they're not fixed by a few patches, the technique for doing each of them is done by using game mechanics approved by the game. If they're actually not intended and because of poor designs then they should fix'em, else it's intended.

dregenfox

That's a good point, can we at least get the Bella Leun last boss in FSP OS bug fixed if we can't resolve the air exploit? Currently sins are using an exploit to instantly bypass the boss and one-shot it, this works regardless of gear level. It's become standard now that an FSP group MUST have a glitcher.

eirghan

pwi doesnt seem to fix glitches or any issue really. they just release new content that makes things seem less of an issue EG botting, new "passives", new "skills" nerf drop rate/value. etc.

mooglemonger

If oneshotting the last boss in fsp was an exploit then why do we have the axe falling on the sins head once when they do the glitch? That to me looks like an intended shortcut. Downside is not having enough soulforce or doing the " glitch" inncorrectly results in a dead fish and/ or the boss not dieing.

bloodedone87

dregenfox wrote: »

That's a good point, can we at least get the Bella Leun last boss in FSP OS bug fixed if we can't resolve the air exploit? Currently sins are using an exploit to instantly bypass the boss and one-shot it, this works regardless of gear level. It's become standard now that an FSP group MUST have a glitcher.

On Etherblade they are asking in world chat for sins to glitch that boss.

eirghan

Well im cutting it close but i dont want this to necro so bumping it

blazerboy

@eirghan wtb a glitch that lets me have 2 spark for 30 seconds k thx

eirghan

blazerboy wrote: »

@eirghan wtb a glitch that lets me have 2 spark for 30 seconds k thx

if were going to glitch sparks why not go all the way and glitch a 4 spark skill

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asterelle

I don't know of any other game where stunning a jumping target causes them to levitate in the air. That said it's been a feature of the game for 10 years without being changed. If the devs thought it was improper they would have changed it so stunned/frozen targets fall to the ground.

Also it's pointless though to declare it an exploit when it happens frequently in normal play. Would you be expected to stop channeling your stun skills when the target starts jumping?

I do agree though that it happens more frequently now that pvp pull/knockback skills are more common. Maybe that is reason for the devs to give it another thought.​​

johndoe#4146

If the mobs in warsong can do it, the players should be able to as well.. lol.

blazerboy

Honestly for me the airglitching is most rediculous from archers. Not saying archers are unfair or op but 6 sec to spam that when they can shoot stun me in mid air is stupid. If you don't want to extend the CD fine but make it so I don't get stunned mid decent, if I'm stunned and a archer push back somehow I get pushed into the sky if that makes sense!? And then frozen in midair while the archer/mag classes can pick off at me without genie I'm as good as deleted and heck even with genie in forced to use a save due to broken physics not even just mechanics but gravity doesnt apply lol.

This is just an example of how rediculous this is. Hell as a db I can stop and completely cc lock ppl into hell with just air locking even if it's a arcane class if say a barb knocked them down or they got off their fly... Imo the target should receive the stun but continue falling. I've tried to jump on a flyer and Sins did this to me and completely end me. I don't believe it should be ban worthy due to sometimes it's on purpose and sometimes it's an accident there's no clear way to gauge everyone's intentions. Just fix it so the basic laws of nature apply @asterelle

P.S @eirghan yes 4 spark skill for except a few since all but sins SAGE veno/db and barbs would struggle to get the chi in a timely manner to build for it or to replenish all that reserves used xD

mooglemonger

Good point @johndoe069. If mobs can do it then why can't we? > : (

bloodedone87

blazerboy wrote: »

Honestly for me the airglitching is most rediculous from archers. Not saying archers are unfair or op but 6 sec to spam that when they can shoot stun me in mid air is stupid. If you don't want to extend the CD fine but make it so I don't get stunned mid decent, if I'm stunned and a archer push back somehow I get pushed into the sky if that makes sense!? And then frozen in midair while the archer/mag classes can pick off at me without genie I'm as good as deleted and heck even with genie in forced to use a save due to broken physics not even just mechanics but gravity doesnt apply lol.

This is just an example of how rediculous this is. Hell as a db I can stop and completely cc lock ppl into hell with just air locking even if it's a arcane class if say a barb knocked them down or they got off their fly... Imo the target should receive the stun but continue falling. I've tried to jump on a flyer and Sins did this to me and completely end me. I don't believe it should be ban worthy due to sometimes it's on purpose and sometimes it's an accident there's no clear way to gauge everyone's intentions. Just fix it so the basic laws of nature apply @asterelle

P.S @eirghan yes 4 spark skill for except a few since all but sins SAGE veno/db and barbs would struggle to get the chi in a timely manner to build for it or to replenish all that reserves used xD

SB gets chi fast too.

blazerboy

@bloodedone87 ah yes I forgot let's all take solace in the fact a sb can stun me lunar surge me in the sky while his/her friends stunlock me up there and then within 15 seconds do it agian... What is gravity? What is Newtons Third Law of motion, what goes up must come down? Naw stay up there we froze you in place get rekt rip

catgirldesu

With the amount of stuns, paralyzes, reels and knockbacks we have in-game at this point, I think air-lock is worth looking into. There are bigger concerns that need to be addressed, especially on our version, but I do believe air-lock can get ridiculous sometimes.

I was thinking this could be looked into while the developers are working on the new game engine if the engine upgrade is real. That's their opportunity to fix/modify a lot of things to improve gameplay.

eirghan

it is that time again to come and clear out the ghosts. Hello everyone.

kalystconquerer#0876

I forgot to bookmark this thread, shame on me!

So the definitive word is -
This is annoying (perhaps unintended?), however this is not an exploit and will not get you banned. To try and fix the way physics behaves and how a player interacts with being in the air will likely take a rework of alot of things that might not be feasible at this time. Because there are ways to get out of it however, this shouldn't be labeled as an exploit.

However please do not do other things such as throwing people into trees or unhinging TW carts *makes eyeballs*

eirghan

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

I forgot to bookmark this thread, shame on me!

So the definitive word is -
This is annoying (perhaps unintended?), however this is not an exploit and will not get you banned. To try and fix the way physics behaves and how a player interacts with being in the air will likely take a rework of alot of things that might not be feasible at this time. Because there are ways to get out of it however, this shouldn't be labeled as an exploit.

However please do not do other things such as throwing people into trees or unhinging TW carts *makes eyeballs*

Thanks for your answer Kalyst. I think that sets some pretty definitive guidelines in place for what is NOT OK and what is simply annoying.

Really appreciate your help!!!