New "physical and magical piercing" stats
tictic99999
Posts: 204 Arc User
anyone got a clear understanding or explaination of how these stats work? For instance the astrolabe on the pwnews page is a relavatively endgame astrolabe and it gives almost 1500 physical pierce. But what does 1500 physical pierce mean? Is it like 1500 pierce ignores 1500 physical defense? (which in endgame terms is essentially nothing) Or is it percentage based like spirit where roughly 10 spirit is 1 attack and defense level? If so it would make more sense if it was percentage based and if 2000 defense cut could ignore 20%+ of overall resistance. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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Dawnglory's legendary Stormbringer ShockWave LV 105-105-103
7 year old Harshlands character, semi-retired Wizard Boomz
Will he reach 1800 spirit?
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My guess - physical penetration is a typo / translation error and should be pdef, since all the others are basic stats. Suppose only time will tell unless someone in CN version can enlighten.0
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It's not a typo, it's a new kind of stat that lets you bypass defense/resistance. It's actually a really good stat since it means to mitigate the overwhelming defense people have these days you no longer need to have even more overwhelming damage but rather just higher penetration. Having this stat in the game makes it harder to one shot lower geared people since it is more effective on people with high defense than those with low defense. It's a shame it wasn't in the game since the beginning.konataizumichan wrote: »My guess - physical penetration is a typo / translation error and should be pdef, since all the others are basic stats. Suppose only time will tell unless someone in CN version can enlighten.
I don't have any formula for it though but it won't be too hard to figure out the specifics with some testing later.0 -
Hmm I see, well thank you for the enlightenment Asty-poo
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It's not a typo, it's a new kind of stat that lets you bypass defense/resistance. It's actually a really good stat since it means to mitigate the overwhelming defense people have these days you no longer need to have even more overwhelming damage but rather just higher penetration. Having this stat in the game makes it harder to one shot lower geared people since it is more effective on people with high defense than those with low defense. It's a shame it wasn't in the game since the beginning.konataizumichan wrote: »My guess - physical penetration is a typo / translation error and should be pdef, since all the others are basic stats. Suppose only time will tell unless someone in CN version can enlighten.
I don't have any formula for it though but it won't be too hard to figure out the specifics with some testing later.
Makes it harder to one shot lower geared people how exactly?
It bypasses defenses, how does that make it harder to one shot lower geared people? It just makes it easier to hit harder on higher geared from how I read it and even easier than it already is to one shot lower geared people.
Am I missing the mechanic how this thing works, does it somehow magically empower lower geared people defense instead of bypassing it?
The only fitting image for this forum.0 -
It's not a typo, it's a new kind of stat that lets you bypass defense/resistance. It's actually a really good stat since it means to mitigate the overwhelming defense people have these days you no longer need to have even more overwhelming damage but rather just higher penetration. Having this stat in the game makes it harder to one shot lower geared people since it is more effective on people with high defense than those with low defense. It's a shame it wasn't in the game since the beginning.konataizumichan wrote: »My guess - physical penetration is a typo / translation error and should be pdef, since all the others are basic stats. Suppose only time will tell unless someone in CN version can enlighten.
I don't have any formula for it though but it won't be too hard to figure out the specifics with some testing later.
Makes it harder to one shot lower geared people how exactly?
It bypasses defenses, how does that make it harder to one shot lower geared people? It just makes it easier to hit harder on higher geared from how I read it and even easier than it already is to one shot lower geared people.
Am I missing the mechanic how this thing works, does it somehow magically empower lower geared people defense instead of bypassing it?
Nothing is easier than to "one shot" someone, I don't think half shots are invented yet.0 -
It's a stat that happens to be more effective against people with better gear. Like suppose it cuts opponents damage mitigation in half (I don't know how it would work but let's just pretend it would work like this). So someone with 90% damage reduction gets cut down to 45% while someone with 50% damage reduction gets cut down to 25%. That means the overall damage you do against the 90% reduction goes from 10% to 55%, so it went up 450% (wow). The damage you do against the lower gear player goes from 50% to 75% which is just +50% damage (not much wow).
It's not a typo, it's a new kind of stat that lets you bypass defense/resistance. It's actually a really good stat since it means to mitigate the overwhelming defense people have these days you no longer need to have even more overwhelming damage but rather just higher penetration. Having this stat in the game makes it harder to one shot lower geared people since it is more effective on people with high defense than those with low defense. It's a shame it wasn't in the game since the beginning.konataizumichan wrote: »My guess - physical penetration is a typo / translation error and should be pdef, since all the others are basic stats. Suppose only time will tell unless someone in CN version can enlighten.
I don't have any formula for it though but it won't be too hard to figure out the specifics with some testing later.
Makes it harder to one shot lower geared people how exactly?
It bypasses defenses, how does that make it harder to one shot lower geared people? It just makes it easier to hit harder on higher geared from how I read it and even easier than it already is to one shot lower geared people.
Am I missing the mechanic how this thing works, does it somehow magically empower lower geared people defense instead of bypassing it?
Currently if you had to deal an added 450% damage to the stronger tier player you also have to deal out 450% more damage to the lower gear player.
So if it took 30 hits to kill the top tier player and 5 hits to kill the lower gear player, now the top tier player can be killed in 6 hits but the lower gear player is just a one shot.
With this new mechanic you can still deal 450% more damage to the top tier player but the effect is much less pronounced on lower geared players.
So the top tier player gets cut from 30 hits down to 5 hits but the lower geared player gets cut from 6 hits down to 4 hits.
Although this example is extreme it shows that the overall effect on the game will be to lessen the gear divide.
It's actually a stat I've been saying should have been in the game for years.0 -
Well explained i think, i know alot about this from playing ESO and your kind of right with what you said but..... is there going to be a soft cap on how much you ignore?0
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BUTTTT in saying that you are also kind of worng and heres why... AP will ignore certain % of armor/armour value increasing your overall damage to a player (its a given) but it also works against you beacuase you will in turn take more damage from players (again its a given) but what you kind of touched on was the fact that lower level players will cause a little bit more damage but not enough to bring a 30 hit kill down to a 6 hit kill because there is still a high % of armor/armour to consider.... lets say AP gives us a 10% damage increase at max, a lvl 80 full tt set vs a lvl 100 full R9 set would still be in favor of the R9 the 10% couldnt cause the R9 and problems when you take into factor the DEF lvls and the original Phys/Mag def they already have so it wouldnt help a lower lvl player really because the sheer power of the R9 (in my head this makes sense but ive never been one for expaling things clear, hope you kind of understand my point)
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chandlerbm wrote: »BUTTTT in saying that you are also kind of worng and heres why... AP will ignore certain % of armor/armour value increasing your overall damage to a player (its a given) but it also works against you beacuase you will in turn take more damage from players (again its a given) but what you kind of touched on was the fact that lower level players will cause a little bit more damage but not enough to bring a 30 hit kill down to a 6 hit kill because there is still a high % of armor/armour to consider.... lets say AP gives us a 10% damage increase at max, a lvl 80 full tt set vs a lvl 100 full R9 set would still be in favor of the R9 the 10% couldnt cause the R9 and problems when you take into factor the DEF lvls and the original Phys/Mag def they already have so it wouldnt help a lower lvl player really because the sheer power of the R9 (in my head this makes sense but ive never been one for expaling things clear, hope you kind of understand my point)
Although this example is extreme it shows that the overall effect on the game will be to lessen the gear divide.
It's actually a stat I've been saying should have been in the game for years.
Said it was an extreme example
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It's a stat that happens to be more effective against people with better gear. Like suppose it cuts opponents damage mitigation in half (I don't know how it would work but let's just pretend it would work like this). So someone with 90% damage reduction gets cut down to 45% while someone with 50% damage reduction gets cut down to 25%. That means the overall damage you do against the 90% reduction goes from 10% to 55%, so it went up 450% (wow). The damage you do against the lower gear player goes from 50% to 75% which is just +50% damage (not much wow).
It's not a typo, it's a new kind of stat that lets you bypass defense/resistance. It's actually a really good stat since it means to mitigate the overwhelming defense people have these days you no longer need to have even more overwhelming damage but rather just higher penetration. Having this stat in the game makes it harder to one shot lower geared people since it is more effective on people with high defense than those with low defense. It's a shame it wasn't in the game since the beginning.konataizumichan wrote: »My guess - physical penetration is a typo / translation error and should be pdef, since all the others are basic stats. Suppose only time will tell unless someone in CN version can enlighten.
I don't have any formula for it though but it won't be too hard to figure out the specifics with some testing later.
Makes it harder to one shot lower geared people how exactly?
It bypasses defenses, how does that make it harder to one shot lower geared people? It just makes it easier to hit harder on higher geared from how I read it and even easier than it already is to one shot lower geared people.
Am I missing the mechanic how this thing works, does it somehow magically empower lower geared people defense instead of bypassing it?
Currently if you had to deal an added 450% damage to the stronger tier player you also have to deal out 450% more damage to the lower gear player.
So if it took 30 hits to kill the top tier player and 5 hits to kill the lower gear player, now the top tier player can be killed in 6 hits but the lower gear player is just a one shot.
With this new mechanic you can still deal 450% more damage to the top tier player but the effect is much less pronounced on lower geared players.
So the top tier player gets cut from 30 hits down to 5 hits but the lower geared player gets cut from 6 hits down to 4 hits.
Although this example is extreme it shows that the overall effect on the game will be to lessen the gear divide.
It's actually a stat I've been saying should have been in the game for years.
Are u sure thats how it works? Because thats not how I see it at all. When I heard about the armor/magic penetration I was hoping for a % penetration, but looking at numbers like 958 thats very clearly a flat penetration. That would mean the effect of the penetration is the exact opposite of your example.
Someone with 1000 armor penetration is attacking someone with 2000 pdef, due to the armor penetration it will bypass 1000 of this pdef and therefor the target only has 1000 pdef for him.
When you're level 105 the reduction that 2000 pdef provides is 32.39% vs other 105.
When you're level 105 the reduction that 1000 pdef provides is 19.32% vs other 105.
Now if you compare that to people with good gear, lets say 40.000 pdef.
When you're level 105 the reduction that 40.000 pdef provides is 90.55% vs other 105.
When you're level 105 the reduction that 39.000 pdef provides is 90.33% vs other 105.
Although the example is rather extreme, looking at these numbers it shows that the physical penetration does next to nothing on high gear people, while its completely devastating on low gear people. The way I see it this physical/magical penetration is completely useless against Endgame/Buffed people and is only effectively used when u have skills that further debuff the stat you are trying to penetrate (i.e. Undine Strike + Spark + Magic Penetration) or when you are attacking targets that have a low defense to begin with.
(I could imagine demon ironwood reducing someones pdef down to 0 and the penetration further lowering it into the negatives for the damage calculation, resulting in hits in the 6 digits on end game people)
Do correct me if Im wrong however! This is merely how I see these numbers
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I don't think they would introduce a system that allows negative defense since there is an asymptote at around -4000 defense where you do infinite damage.
There are only so many forms defense mitigation can take and in my opinion something like this is the most likely:
PDef.effective = PDef.base * 1000/(1000+Phys.Penetration)
In general people with better gear have more of their survivability come from defense than those with lower gear. That means most kinds of defense mitigation will effect people with better gear more. Demon ironwood doesn't do much to someone in TT90 but totally destroys end game players.
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I don't think they would introduce a system that allows negative defense since there is an asymptote at around -4000 defense where you do infinite damage.
There are only so many forms defense mitigation can take and in my opinion something like this is the most likely:
PDef.effective = PDef.base * 1000/(1000+Phys.Penetration)
In general people with better gear have more of their survivability come from defense than those with lower gear. That means most kinds of defense mitigation will effect people with better gear more. Demon ironwood doesn't do much to someone in TT90 but totally destroys end game players.
Thanks a lot fo these explanations. If this is indeed how this works I will for sure be excited to see this. Please update us if you find out anything different.
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I know it was mentioned the example was extreme but, I hope this new feature is somewhat balanced. I don't want us to end up playing as if we're all +5 armor +12 weapons.
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qontroL come here, I want to do infinite damage to you. For science.0
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I believe some of these stats are custom to your needs. BUT... Don't quote me on that.
May be more again but dont quote me to the class your playing.0 -
mitigation is a good thing to come .... defense numbers are getting so ridiculously out of control.... its not even funny anymore0
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i dont think anyone should worry about nerfed defense. Keep in mind this will be added with this strange charm tick passive, and the hp passive, well all have defense out the wazoo.
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i dont think anyone should worry about nerfed defense. Keep in mind this will be added with this strange charm tick passive, and the hp passive, well all have defense out the wazoo.
I was thinking about that myself. This will help balance out the HP passive with vit sharded players and cata barbs.0 -
It's just hard to be positive knowing PWI's history.i dont think anyone should worry about nerfed defense. Keep in mind this will be added with this strange charm tick passive, and the hp passive, well all have defense out the wazoo.
I mean we certainly worried about the War Avatar cards, but we all managed to adapt to it (and it didn't ruin things, just added extra stuff to work on) so chances are this is the same thing. However, I can't help it but worry a little bit until I see for myself how it works.
Post edited by catgirldesu on0 -
I guess we'll see what it does, my money is on it being completely useless against anyone with well refined ornaments and proper cards... $$$. Or what would be even more funny is if it was similar to the way spirit works that u can get other stats that completely negate the effect of the penetration. Spirit is a nice system in that regard, if u keep up like the vast majority then u gain nothing, if u fail to keep up then u lose everything.
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Bumping this. I am seriously interested in knowing as much as possible about this ahead of time so anyone with any further information please inform us. I would love to know how the new mode works and what to expect.
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dingo488 with the rainbow kappa0
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Does it work on monsters too ?0
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If it won't bypass both PDef/MDef AND defense levels/spirit modifier then the stat won't really help a lot... Still, it's a boost with a bias to lower gear players and the IAS/ICR crew (since that stat is applied per-hit).... forget your fears. And want no more...
Dawnglory player:
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It only says Pdef and Mdef in the screenshot above, so defense levels and spirits won't be affected I believe.
Is Mdef separated for each element ? in the screenshot there are Earth and Water resistance penetrations, can we get like for example several Metal resistance penetration ?0 -
You guys have it all wrong. Defense levels and spirit are both modifiers, amplifiers if you would of your current stats. They are both nothing without a large amount of physical and magical resistance. If your resistance is lowered, your total defense is lowered and the lowering is then amplied, the same way if you gain more resistance your damage is reduced. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
Dawnglory's legendary Stormbringer ShockWave LV 105-105-103
7 year old Harshlands character, semi-retired Wizard Boomz
Will he reach 1800 spirit?0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXi45uIrOt0
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