something, i think non of us, at least me, have been thinking about is; how to get the HR into a position where people will want them in the party.
before mod 3, its almost always just our AOE dps that get us in, as an after thought fill in.
now i have been looking over our powers, traits, abilities trying to figure out what buffs or changes are needed to get the HR into a desirable position for dungeons and other future epic encounters that might get thrown at us.
now this mode of thought really is harder for me to understand. first CW have ruled the game for so long, and truthfully have broken the game in so many ways it is not funny. the current meta for running dungeons is stacking CW's for cc, and for their DPS. now i know many people believe the dungeons are "easy", but i disagree with that thinking, it is the CW's that give the impression of "easy". once the CW is brought down and nerfed into the ground please, i think we will see the "difficulty" go up where it should be. but that doesn't solve the entire problem.
in most games that utilize "classes", each member of a party had a specific tool at there disposal that made them invaluable for party membership. healer, tank, dps, aoe nuke, single target dps. of course these are games that balanced around PVE party and content. this allowed class diversity, and class specialization.
with the drive to "balance" around PVP this blurs the lines of the classes. in PVP, each class player "thinks" they should have equal chance to kill any other class. i think this is wrong because it tears away party make up, and class jobs. in pvp it becomes a race in gear, DPS and tankiness.
this "balance" around PVP is the second issue that really plays against an HR in terms of providing him a "job" in PVE party content. now PNP RPG's where never designed for class balance they where designed so each class had a purpose.
our logic has been
DC=heals
GF= tank
TR= single target assassin
CW= crowd control
GWF=off tank dps
HR= Ranged DPS aoe.
typically this would all be the correct assumption. but here in neverwinter, its all out of whack, off tank has been as tanky as the tank, cw's dish out more damage than dps classes, healers not really healing, they have been dps'ing and small heals and some support. this all follows the logic in PVP each class thinking they need to be as "powerful" as the next, instead it should be each class is but one part of the team.
so what can we do as hr's that will set us a part from the pack? our abilities jump wildly all over, from stealth, to heals and buffs, to debuffs, ranged, melee, aoe to single target.
what skill do you think need better development to define us as HR'S with truly unique skill they bring to a party.
please while pondering this, remember what we already have, and try and think how you would change things as a developer on the balancing crew.
what i came up with, is single target nuking, and single target control, i figure our job would be about hitting the big boy while the party protect me from the adds, and kept melee mobs off my toes. so skill that i would prioitize aimed shot, maybe higher damage, and skill like hindering and constricting much better at cc longer duration, and maybe throw in a couple more disables and disrupts. but in the end, our job would be taking the big boy down. and then targeting objectives of importance, like mages, healers, and other ranged.
another job, controling pulls, allowing smarter dungeon runs, though slower, than the speed runs do; and that is because of the CW and GWF dominance.
Feedback: Overall I'm using a 17.2k GS HR with mostly rank 10s, 37.7k hp on the preview. I cannot seem to complete a normal heroic encounter by myself. While I can easily do it with other classes. I can imagine people with average gear are going to have problems doing any form of PvE by themselves. This was all done with the new paragon, which I feel doesn't bring enough new utilities to the class. I'll try with Stormwarden paragon to see if I can have any success.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Well said bulletdancer. Is there any chance that devs could boost our rapid shot dps. I'm not sure where you guys payed D&D ever, but rangers are not support classes. If you wan't to nerf our ony viable aoe, (Silvanus knows why) could we get a dps increase to our SP?
Feedback: Overall I'm using a 17.2k GS HR with mostly rank 10s, 37.7k hp on the preview. I cannot seem to complete a normal heroic encounter by myself. While I can easily do it with other classes. I can imagine people with average gear are going to have problems doing any form of PvE by themselves. This was all done with the new paragon, which I feel doesn't bring enough new utilities to the class. I'll try with Stormwarden paragon to see if I can have any success.
I can easily complete the normal 2-3 person heroic encounters on my HR he not quite at 16k GS, just under 30k HPs, and is Archery spec'ed. I have no issue soloing these. I use my Royal Guard Set, and Grim pvp Jewerly. I do rely on a high LS for solo and dungeon grouping. I did choose all teh boons that have a chance to proc heals and the x3 Life steal. I have dropped bloodthirsty for Nature's Blessing. My Self healing( regen and life steal) + Skull Artifact + Potions is more then enough.
What is your power sitting, crit and armp sitting at? My non scientific obersvation is the mobs in Ice wind dale have some type of huge damage mitigation. Not sure if High defense, deflect, or armp..or something entirely new, as they al do have some type of black ice buff....but I hit for much less until I raised up my power by a significant margin.
Perhaps you want to meet in game and can see what is going on?
I can easily complete the normal 2-3 person heroic encounters on my HR he not quite at 16k GS, just under 30k HPs, and is Archery spec'ed. I have no issue soloing these. I use my Royal Guard Set, and Grim pvp Jewerly. I do rely on a high LS for solo and dungeon grouping. I did choose all teh boons that have a chance to proc heals and the x3 Life steal. I have dropped bloodthirsty for Nature's Blessing. My Self healing( regen and life steal) + Skull Artifact + Potions is more then enough.
What is your power sitting, crit and armp sitting at? My non scientific obersvation is the mobs in Ice wind dale have some type of huge damage mitigation. Not sure if High defense, deflect, or armp..or something entirely new, as they al do have some type of black ice buff....but I hit for much less until I raised up my power by a significant margin.
Perhaps you want to meet in game and can see what is going on?
I just tried again using Archery Spec Stormwarden and it was fine. The problem with not using Archery spec, or Royal guard set is that the cooldown for all the skills is too long. With the stompstep action halved (or none in new paragon) really hurts the class.
It seems that combat spec isn't going to do so well just to get the dailies done. HR used to be a fun class to play, but now just feels too under powered.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
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l3g10nna1reMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
edited March 2014
@ Gentlemancrush Can you please review the power rework and check my Data and see if you can figure out whats going on please?
Test Subject - Level 60 Dummy in the Dread ring
Preview Server Data
16k GS
Perfect Vorpal
6597 Power
5025 Critical
2741 Armour penetration
All archery Feats+ max Distance for +20% damage
Your Aimed Shot deals 10343 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 10669 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11342 Physical to Target Dummy [Your Aimed Shot deals 21372 Physical to Target Dummy
[Your Aimed Shot deals 23360 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11038 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 21519 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 23014 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23402 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23109 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12426 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 23221 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 22696 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11955 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12556 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12083 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11498 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 23209 Physical to Target Dummy
Live Data
Test Subject - Level 60 Dummy in the Dread ring
Preview Data
15.6k GS
Perfect Vorpal
6278 Power
4405 Critical
2508 Armour penetration
All archery Feats+ max Distance for +20% damage
Your Aimed Shot deals 26441 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 13241 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11342 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 24361 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12241 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12841 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 13053 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 23078 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12343 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 28443 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12993 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 25392 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 25906 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12353 Physical to Target Dummy Your Aimed Shot deals 27337 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12650 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11512 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11630 Physical to Target Dummy
I dont understand how with Rank9/10s and more power and crit my Damage is less on preview than Live the only difference is the power rework, as there has been no notes to say Aimed shot has been changed.
Hey guys, we just finalized the list of changes (that I believe will be hitting next Friday, but that is subject to change). I will update the OP as well so feel free to look there for updates in the future.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Fox Shift: This power may now strike any one target a maximum of 2 times.
Thorn Strike: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%.
Split the Sky: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%. Additionally fixed a bug with the way weapon damage was calculated by this power. There should be no net change from this fix.
Aspect of the Pack: Now correctly grants Combat Advantage to allies instead of only granting it to the Ranger. The Ranger still benefits from this effect as well.
Hawkeye: *REWORK* This power now grants you 15% bonus damage on the next attack. Allies gain half this benefit (based on the rank of the power).
Oakskin: Healing increased by 150%.
Commanding Shot: This power now also gains +10% damage when it ranks up.
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
Electric Shot: Damage increased by roughly 100%. *It should now be in line with Split Shot.*
Clear the Ground: Damage increased by roughly 50%. *It should now be in line with Split Strike.*
Hey guys, we just finalized the list of changes (that I believe will be hitting next Friday, but that is subject to change). I will update the OP as well so feel free to look there for updates in the future.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Fox Shift: This power may now strike any one target a maximum of 2 times.
Thorn Strike: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%.
Split the Sky: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%. Additionally fixed a bug with the way weapon damage was calculated by this power. There should be no net change from this fix.
Aspect of the Pack: Now correctly grants Combat Advantage to allies instead of only granting it to the Ranger. The Ranger still benefits from this effect as well.
Hawkeye: *REWORK* This power now grants you 15% bonus damage on the next attack. Allies gain half this benefit (based on the rank of the power).
Oakskin: Healing increased by 150%.
Commanding Shot: This power now also gains +10% damage when it ranks up.
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
Electric Shot: Damage increased by roughly 100%. *It should now be in line with Split Shot.*
Clear the Ground: Damage increased by roughly 50%. *It should now be in line with Split Strike.*
So you're about to give a huge damage buff to a striker class that may outdamage wizards in pve and doing already quite a lot of damage in pvp - a lot more than TRs and GWFs, right before releasing the biggest pvp expansion the game has ever seen. I'm not sure about what to think right now... Am clearly confused and if every class complaining about not doing enough damage can get a buff making a 20 pages thread full of false assumptions and crocodile tears, i'm going to start one about CWs not doing enough damage.
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vsandddMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
Hey guys, we just finalized the list of changes (that I believe will be hitting next Friday, but that is subject to change). I will update the OP as well so feel free to look there for updates in the future.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Fox Shift: This power may now strike any one target a maximum of 2 times.
Thorn Strike: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%.
Split the Sky: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%. Additionally fixed a bug with the way weapon damage was calculated by this power. There should be no net change from this fix.
Aspect of the Pack: Now correctly grants Combat Advantage to allies instead of only granting it to the Ranger. The Ranger still benefits from this effect as well.
Hawkeye: *REWORK* This power now grants you 15% bonus damage on the next attack. Allies gain half this benefit (based on the rank of the power).
Oakskin: Healing increased by 150%.
Commanding Shot: This power now also gains +10% damage when it ranks up.
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
Electric Shot: Damage increased by roughly 100%. *It should now be in line with Split Shot.*
Clear the Ground: Damage increased by roughly 50%. *It should now be in line with Split Strike.*
Slasher's Mark: Damage increase by 300%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Nice!
Can you look into:
Aimed Strikeis not being affected by armor penetration.
Forest Ghost is easily interrupted and goes on cooldown with no effect, could you make the animation faster or something?
The HR Dodgesometimes doesn't seem to give immunity to cc and/or damage.
Grasping Rootscauses other encounters to not hit the target affected by them (ex: Control Wizard's Shard of Endless Avalanche).
So you're about to give a huge damage buff to a striker class that may outdamage wizards in pve and doing already quite a lot of damage in pvp - a lot more than TRs and GWFs, right before releasing the biggest pvp expansion the game has ever seen. I'm not sure about what to think right now... Am clearly confused and if every class complaining about not doing enough damage can get a buff making a 20 pages thread full of false assumptions and crocodile tears, i'm going to start one about CWs not doing enough damage.
this are mostly aoe skills so pve focused but with this buffs and huge nerfs gwf got on utily on dps think hr could become second the best class after king cw
Hey guys, we just finalized the list of changes (that I believe will be hitting next Friday, but that is subject to change). I will update the OP as well so feel free to look there for updates in the future.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Fox Shift: This power may now strike any one target a maximum of 2 times.
Thorn Strike: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%.
Split the Sky: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%. Additionally fixed a bug with the way weapon damage was calculated by this power. There should be no net change from this fix.
Aspect of the Pack: Now correctly grants Combat Advantage to allies instead of only granting it to the Ranger. The Ranger still benefits from this effect as well.
Hawkeye: *REWORK* This power now grants you 15% bonus damage on the next attack. Allies gain half this benefit (based on the rank of the power).
Oakskin: Healing increased by 150%.
Commanding Shot: This power now also gains +10% damage when it ranks up.
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
Electric Shot: Damage increased by roughly 100%. *It should now be in line with Split Shot.*
Clear the Ground: Damage increased by roughly 50%. *It should now be in line with Split Strike.*
Slasher's Mark: Damage increase by 300%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
These are exactly the kind of changes I was hoping for. The damage has been spread out over several encounters to give us a choice in game play. We have no single over the top must have skill for either pvp or pve with these changes. Choice is GOOD!! Fixed apsect of the pack which is a fabulous team buff. Oakskin buffed. It looks like we now bring good things to benefit a group. It seems on the surface just by reading these changes and having played the ranger since it's launch that smart tactical gameplay will be rewarded now with good results. No more faceroll spamming splitshot in pve, which I for one couldn't be more happy about. No more relying on only foxes shift in pvp, which again i am pleased with. You are going to have to carefully set up each different attack but the opportunity for some nice combos are there in both pve and pvp. I am truly looking forward to testing these out when they hit preview.
So you're about to give a huge damage buff to a striker class that may outdamage wizards in pve and doing already quite a lot of damage in pvp - a lot more than TRs and GWFs, right before releasing the biggest pvp expansion the game has ever seen. I'm not sure about what to think right now... Am clearly confused and if every class complaining about not doing enough damage can get a buff making a 20 pages thread full of false assumptions and crocodile tears, i'm going to start one about CWs not doing enough damage.
0.o
i know i did not just read this!
this is a PVE game, and should be balanced for PVE, and PVP should be secondary
a CW will usually out damage a HR at higher GS. a CW has been rocking PVE since beta, and has broken most dungeons, and pve balance, made other class obsolete. and you want to cry about a striker clas out dps'ing a control?
O.0 i just don't know what to say, wow
So you're about to give a huge damage buff to a striker class that may outdamage wizards in pve and doing already quite a lot of damage in pvp - a lot more than TRs and GWFs, right before releasing the biggest pvp expansion the game has ever seen. I'm not sure about what to think right now... Am clearly confused and if every class complaining about not doing enough damage can get a buff making a 20 pages thread full of false assumptions and crocodile tears, i'm going to start one about CWs not doing enough damage.
I'm not sure you understand these changes. All that has happened is the damage has been moved from split shot and OP foxes shift into other encounters and will force ranger players to be much much smarter. No more 4 hit burst from foxes in pvp, no more faceroll spamming splitshot. Each and every attack is going to have to be carefully setup to get the most out the ranger. It will be a higher skillcap class. Ranger players will have to be smarter and play much more tactically now and I for one am happy about this. You keep comparing a striker class (Ranger) to a control class (Wizard) and think wizards should do as much damage as a ranger yet still have all that fabulous CC. Each and every class should have it's roll in PVE and be viable to, and bring assets to a group. Currently on live, you know as well as everyone else that this isn't the case. These changes to the HR will make it a little more wanted in a group. Once again....
TOODLES!!!
Liell.
You keep comparing a striker class (Ranger) to a control class (Wizard) and think wizards should do as much damage as a ranger yet still have all that fabulous CC.
HRs have MUCH, much, MUCH better CC than CW in PvP. Good HRs keep my CW perma-disabled. I rarely get to shoot a spell at them, and when I do, it does little to no damage. If they deflect it, which happens often, they get healed. While I'm dazed and constricted, the HR has fun and shoots stuff at me and burst me down. When I am finally out of CC and shoot a spell, it's OK, since HR has conserved dodges and can now spam a few until he gets me CCed yet again.
Familiar?
Because the CC class has way less CC than the striker class in this instance.
You keep comparing a striker class (Ranger) to a control class (Wizard) and think wizards should do as much damage as a ranger yet still have all that fabulous CC. Each and every class should have it's roll in PVE and be viable to, and bring assets to a group. Currently on live, you know as well as everyone else that this isn't the case. These changes to the HR will make it a little more wanted in a group. Once again....
TOODLES!!!
Liell.
The issue is now, that PVP is not balanced (yet again) Because HRs actually have some of the BEST pvp CC and burst as well....
For PVE? Sure this helps alot! But for PVP CWs have the shaft right now and HRs are pretty beastmode
So you're about to give a huge damage buff to a striker class that may outdamage wizards in pve and doing already quite a lot of damage in pvp - a lot more than TRs and GWFs, right before releasing the biggest pvp expansion the game has ever seen. I'm not sure about what to think right now... Am clearly confused and if every class complaining about not doing enough damage can get a buff making a 20 pages thread full of false assumptions and crocodile tears, i'm going to start one about CWs not doing enough damage.
u are being wrong buddy.... HR got some serious nerfs.. these buffs are compensates to the previous nerfs (split shot damage lowered by 45%... )
u are being wrong buddy.... HR got some serious nerfs.. these buffs are compensates to the previous nerfs (split shot damage lowered by 45%... )
Actually there is actually a pattern here. Certain CW players complain about every class in PvP in turn to get them nerfed. First GWFs and TRs, and now HRs. If you don't believe me just check their previous post history....
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
I love you
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frozenflame22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 56
edited March 2014
I'm thrilled to these changes, but I'm still concerned about split shot. With a 45% cut, there really isn't any reason to slot it anymore. Dial that back to a 10%-25% cut and it would be much more in line with other at will powers.
Actually I think that Split Shot needs to be reworked entirely. If I were to fix this, I would give it a flat total damage that would be divided among targets but also give a upper limit to the amount of targets that would increase as the power is leveled up. 4 targets at 1st level, 5 at 2nd level, and 6 at 3rd level. The total damage should be slightly higher than rapid shot, but only because split shot is slower.
Edited to add: Currently on the live server I do have Split Shot slotted, but I am not a Split Shot spammer. I fire a few times at the beginning of an encounter then switch to Rapid Shot if I'm solo or Aimed Shot when in a party. Sometimes if I really want to be careful about aggro, then I don't use it at all. It just depends on the situation.
Also, there is a major problem with the way melee version works for archery speced rangers. Melee should be less powerful than archery if you're not speced for it, but currently I'm much better off shooting things with the bow even when things are at point blank range. I don't have any suggestions for this one, but it needs some looking into. Right now, I don't dare tab over to melee ever because every stinking time I end up dying. It just isn't worth it.
The issue is now, that PVP is not balanced (yet again) Because HRs actually have some of the BEST pvp CC and burst as well....
For PVE? Sure this helps alot! But for PVP CWs have the shaft right now and HRs are pretty beastmode
Wont argue the fact that on live right now foxes hitting a single target 4 times is a tad to much and that split shot on live is also a tad to much in pvp. But as you see, all that damage has been moved. The ranger will have less burst in PVP and be more viable for group PVE. As for CC in pvp surely you jest.....surely....No I'm not calling you shirley...Come on really? Compared to the train wreck that is a prone chain or repel/freeze/choke from a CW....really? No, just no. Rangers have constricting arrow, disrupting shot as a daily, hindering as a melee attack and that's highly situational and you must give up something much better for other uses to slot it. No......I have a CW,a GF and DC all at lvl 60 and I pvp with them. You're not selling me any ocean front property in arizona here folks with that nonsense. I know better.
Hey guys, we just finalized the list of changes (that I believe will be hitting next Friday, but that is subject to change). I will update the OP as well so feel free to look there for updates in the future.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Fox Shift: This power may now strike any one target a maximum of 2 times.
Thorn Strike: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%.
Split the Sky: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%. Additionally fixed a bug with the way weapon damage was calculated by this power. There should be no net change from this fix.
Aspect of the Pack: Now correctly grants Combat Advantage to allies instead of only granting it to the Ranger. The Ranger still benefits from this effect as well.
Hawkeye: *REWORK* This power now grants you 15% bonus damage on the next attack. Allies gain half this benefit (based on the rank of the power).
Oakskin: Healing increased by 150%.
Commanding Shot: This power now also gains +10% damage when it ranks up.
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
Electric Shot: Damage increased by roughly 100%. *It should now be in line with Split Shot.*
Clear the Ground: Damage increased by roughly 50%. *It should now be in line with Split Strike.*
Slasher's Mark: Damage increase by 300%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
These are all changes that are pretty much needed. Thank you, but strangely leaves my HR build unaffected except by the nerf to split shot.
Class Features: Storm Step, Twin Blades
Encounters: Marauders, Hindering, and Constricting (plus melee counterparts)
At Wills: Rapid, Split
Dailies: Disrupting, Forest Ghost
I move between melee and ranged based on what I'm still waiting for cooldown, using split as filler. This might get me to replace rapid with electric and move aimed to my right mouse button. I already swap to aimed for encounters I think it'll be useful. I'm more worried it leaves my go to encounter powers untouched and perhaps purposefully. They seem thought of as pvp powers and buffing them could be detrimental to pvp, but I find the extra damage from having both melee and ranged direct damage counterparts (unlike stuff like Split the Sky) integral to competing dps wise in groups at times on live already.
Plus these changes still leave me perplexed with the Pathfinder abilities (and class features)--is this meant to be the support path? If so, why the significant buff on Slasher's? I guess which is why I suggested earlier scrapping battlehoned, and cruel recovery for damage augmenting features (like buffing control damage/control bonus).
Anyway, these are definitely needed and good changes, but I still feel like my HR is in limbo DPS wise, but I'll have to play around with stuff like ambush+slasher's mark when the changes happen to see what other potential there is for the Pathfinder.
Is ambush being broken by DoT damage intended behavior?
Hey guys, we just finalized the list of changes (that I believe will be hitting next Friday, but that is subject to change). I will update the OP as well so feel free to look there for updates in the future.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Fox Shift: This power may now strike any one target a maximum of 2 times.
Thorn Strike: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%.
Split the Sky: Base Damage of this power increased by roughly 40%. Additionally fixed a bug with the way weapon damage was calculated by this power. There should be no net change from this fix.
Aspect of the Pack: Now correctly grants Combat Advantage to allies instead of only granting it to the Ranger. The Ranger still benefits from this effect as well.
Hawkeye: *REWORK* This power now grants you 15% bonus damage on the next attack. Allies gain half this benefit (based on the rank of the power).
Oakskin: Healing increased by 150%.
Commanding Shot: This power now also gains +10% damage when it ranks up.
Boar Charge: This power now requires a target to be fired.
Electric Shot: Damage increased by roughly 100%. *It should now be in line with Split Shot.*
Clear the Ground: Damage increased by roughly 50%. *It should now be in line with Split Strike.*
Slasher's Mark: Damage increase by 300%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Great news!
There are currently 2 bugs that will affect the testing and feel of changes to Fox Shift and Thorn Strike
Fox Shift: The +30% bonus damage to first target hit is currently not being applied. Thorn Strike: Tooltip damage is not in line with actual damage - tooltip shows as roughly +40% of actual damage.
Also, since the skill is on the drawing board, I have always wondered the following of Boar Charge; is the delay between use and being able to attack again intentional? If so, reducing this delay would go a long way toward making this skill better.
I guess I can use this post as a chance to report another bug: Ambush: tooltip damage is not in line with actual damage
tooltip shows: 1,698 - 2,040
Actual: [Combat (Self)] Your Ambush deals 1053 Physical to Target Dummy.
EDIT: Ambush damage seems to be applying off-hand weapon damage (instead of main hand) when triggered by a melee skill.
Great news! Fox Shift: The +30% bonus damage to first target hit is currently not being applied. Thorn Strike: Tooltip damage is not in line with actual damage - tooltip shows as roughly +40% of actual damage.
First one is not a bug, I think you just misunderstood the patch note. There is no +30% bonus to the first target hit. When the initial instant hit was removed and the power changed to 3 hits rather than 4, the damage of each hit was increased by 33% (meaning a net zero change to damage if all 3 hits land). Unless your +30% is coming from some other source I am not aware of.
Second, this is probably showing average damage. This is a slightly misleading behavior with powers that have buffs like this built into them. It might be easy to fix but I will have to dig.
Cool stuff. I took forever editing more junk into my post. In case you didn't see it:
Also, since the skill is on the drawing board, I have always wondered the following of Boar Charge; is the delay between use and being able to attack again intentional? If so, reducing this delay would go a long way toward making this skill better.
I guess I can use this post as a chance to report another bug: Ambush: tooltip damage is not in line with actual damage
tooltip shows: 1,698 - 2,040
Actual: [Combat (Self)] Your Ambush deals 1053 Physical to Target Dummy.
EDIT: Ambush damage seems to be applying off-hand weapon damage (instead of main hand) when triggered by a melee skill.
If you did see it, feel free to delete this post.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And of course you state reality just as often about PvE I assume....
Yes, if asked, and if that is the topic of discussion. I have no issues admitting certain classes, including HRs, are almost completely left out of "serious" PvE and not desired during the usual high end speed run. Or that CWs are very powerful because of bad dungeon design/bad mechanics. Or that any class that is purely specced for damage should compete for max DPS. Anybody looking through my posts can see I never had any desires but a rate of 50% wins for CW in PvP against similarly geared/specced/experienced opponents. This has nothing to do with PvE however and I really don't see why I should make a disclaimer to each of my PvP centric posts that "CW is however very good in PvE".
But since I already stated the reality, and this is a feedback topic, let's leave it uncluttered for the devs
Looking forward to these updates. We have hope in HRs to be fun to play again.
If Electric Shot and Clear the ground is around same damage as Split shot and Split Strike. I would imagine no one will be using Split shot anymore, and it will be a dead skill. Perhaps a smaller reduction for Split shot damage, instead of 45% reduction compare to what it is in Live, make it 25%, so that it will still do more damage than Electric Shot by a small margin.
There is still a few older problems that needs to be looked at:
Marauders Escape: Does not work if character is in the air, eg jumping. While the Marauders Rush works in the same situation as long as you have a target. If Marauder Escape is WAI, perhaps give us a shorter cooldown, similar to a GWF missing Takedown. Player should not be penalised for casting while not on the ground.
When the skill is working, the animation can be interrupted very easily by any CC. The name and tooltip suggest it to be an escape, meaning we should be able to escape.
Shift: This doesn't allow the HR to dodge most CCs. Unlike a CW's shift where it can effective dodge any incoming attack.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Stay on topic everyone. This is not a "How does CW stack up against this class in PVP Thread". Also, personal attacks and flaming are not permitted. Lets keep this discussion focused on the appropriate topic.
Comments
before mod 3, its almost always just our AOE dps that get us in, as an after thought fill in.
now i have been looking over our powers, traits, abilities trying to figure out what buffs or changes are needed to get the HR into a desirable position for dungeons and other future epic encounters that might get thrown at us.
now this mode of thought really is harder for me to understand. first CW have ruled the game for so long, and truthfully have broken the game in so many ways it is not funny. the current meta for running dungeons is stacking CW's for cc, and for their DPS. now i know many people believe the dungeons are "easy", but i disagree with that thinking, it is the CW's that give the impression of "easy". once the CW is brought down and nerfed into the ground please, i think we will see the "difficulty" go up where it should be. but that doesn't solve the entire problem.
in most games that utilize "classes", each member of a party had a specific tool at there disposal that made them invaluable for party membership. healer, tank, dps, aoe nuke, single target dps. of course these are games that balanced around PVE party and content. this allowed class diversity, and class specialization.
with the drive to "balance" around PVP this blurs the lines of the classes. in PVP, each class player "thinks" they should have equal chance to kill any other class. i think this is wrong because it tears away party make up, and class jobs. in pvp it becomes a race in gear, DPS and tankiness.
this "balance" around PVP is the second issue that really plays against an HR in terms of providing him a "job" in PVE party content. now PNP RPG's where never designed for class balance they where designed so each class had a purpose.
our logic has been
DC=heals
GF= tank
TR= single target assassin
CW= crowd control
GWF=off tank dps
HR= Ranged DPS aoe.
typically this would all be the correct assumption. but here in neverwinter, its all out of whack, off tank has been as tanky as the tank, cw's dish out more damage than dps classes, healers not really healing, they have been dps'ing and small heals and some support. this all follows the logic in PVP each class thinking they need to be as "powerful" as the next, instead it should be each class is but one part of the team.
so what can we do as hr's that will set us a part from the pack? our abilities jump wildly all over, from stealth, to heals and buffs, to debuffs, ranged, melee, aoe to single target.
what skill do you think need better development to define us as HR'S with truly unique skill they bring to a party.
please while pondering this, remember what we already have, and try and think how you would change things as a developer on the balancing crew.
what i came up with, is single target nuking, and single target control, i figure our job would be about hitting the big boy while the party protect me from the adds, and kept melee mobs off my toes. so skill that i would prioitize aimed shot, maybe higher damage, and skill like hindering and constricting much better at cc longer duration, and maybe throw in a couple more disables and disrupts. but in the end, our job would be taking the big boy down. and then targeting objectives of importance, like mages, healers, and other ranged.
another job, controling pulls, allowing smarter dungeon runs, though slower, than the speed runs do; and that is because of the CW and GWF dominance.
I'm using a 17.2k GS HR with mostly rank 10s, 37.7k hp on the preview. I cannot seem to complete a normal heroic encounter by myself. While I can easily do it with other classes. I can imagine people with average gear are going to have problems doing any form of PvE by themselves. This was all done with the new paragon, which I feel doesn't bring enough new utilities to the class. I'll try with Stormwarden paragon to see if I can have any success.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
I can easily complete the normal 2-3 person heroic encounters on my HR he not quite at 16k GS, just under 30k HPs, and is Archery spec'ed. I have no issue soloing these. I use my Royal Guard Set, and Grim pvp Jewerly. I do rely on a high LS for solo and dungeon grouping. I did choose all teh boons that have a chance to proc heals and the x3 Life steal. I have dropped bloodthirsty for Nature's Blessing. My Self healing( regen and life steal) + Skull Artifact + Potions is more then enough.
What is your power sitting, crit and armp sitting at? My non scientific obersvation is the mobs in Ice wind dale have some type of huge damage mitigation. Not sure if High defense, deflect, or armp..or something entirely new, as they al do have some type of black ice buff....but I hit for much less until I raised up my power by a significant margin.
Perhaps you want to meet in game and can see what is going on?
I just tried again using Archery Spec Stormwarden and it was fine. The problem with not using Archery spec, or Royal guard set is that the cooldown for all the skills is too long. With the stompstep action halved (or none in new paragon) really hurts the class.
It seems that combat spec isn't going to do so well just to get the dailies done. HR used to be a fun class to play, but now just feels too under powered.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Test Subject - Level 60 Dummy in the Dread ring
Preview Server Data
16k GS
Perfect Vorpal
6597 Power
5025 Critical
2741 Armour penetration
All archery Feats+ max Distance for +20% damage
Your Aimed Shot deals 10343 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 10669 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11342 Physical to Target Dummy
[Your Aimed Shot deals 21372 Physical to Target Dummy
[Your Aimed Shot deals 23360 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11038 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 21519 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23014 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23402 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23109 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12426 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23221 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 22696 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11955 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12556 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12083 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11498 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23209 Physical to Target Dummy
Live Data
Test Subject - Level 60 Dummy in the Dread ring
Preview Data
15.6k GS
Perfect Vorpal
6278 Power
4405 Critical
2508 Armour penetration
All archery Feats+ max Distance for +20% damage
Your Aimed Shot deals 26441 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 13241 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11342 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 24361 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12241 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12841 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 13053 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 23078 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12343 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 28443 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12993 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 25392 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 25906 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12353 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 27337 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 12650 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11512 Physical to Target Dummy
Your Aimed Shot deals 11630 Physical to Target Dummy
I dont understand how with Rank9/10s and more power and crit my Damage is less on preview than Live the only difference is the power rework, as there has been no notes to say Aimed shot has been changed.
And sorry I can't really help you with the melee specs...as I play a ranger for "range" lol. I use melee only when I have to.
The changes we are making next week are as follows.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Wow , some nice changes there.
Nice!
Can you look into:
this are mostly aoe skills so pve focused but with this buffs and huge nerfs gwf got on utily on dps think hr could become second the best class after king cw
These are exactly the kind of changes I was hoping for. The damage has been spread out over several encounters to give us a choice in game play. We have no single over the top must have skill for either pvp or pve with these changes. Choice is GOOD!! Fixed apsect of the pack which is a fabulous team buff. Oakskin buffed. It looks like we now bring good things to benefit a group. It seems on the surface just by reading these changes and having played the ranger since it's launch that smart tactical gameplay will be rewarded now with good results. No more faceroll spamming splitshot in pve, which I for one couldn't be more happy about. No more relying on only foxes shift in pvp, which again i am pleased with. You are going to have to carefully set up each different attack but the opportunity for some nice combos are there in both pve and pvp. I am truly looking forward to testing these out when they hit preview.
0.o
i know i did not just read this!
this is a PVE game, and should be balanced for PVE, and PVP should be secondary
a CW will usually out damage a HR at higher GS. a CW has been rocking PVE since beta, and has broken most dungeons, and pve balance, made other class obsolete. and you want to cry about a striker clas out dps'ing a control?
O.0 i just don't know what to say, wow
i think i just got trolled 0_0
I'm not sure you understand these changes. All that has happened is the damage has been moved from split shot and OP foxes shift into other encounters and will force ranger players to be much much smarter. No more 4 hit burst from foxes in pvp, no more faceroll spamming splitshot. Each and every attack is going to have to be carefully setup to get the most out the ranger. It will be a higher skillcap class. Ranger players will have to be smarter and play much more tactically now and I for one am happy about this. You keep comparing a striker class (Ranger) to a control class (Wizard) and think wizards should do as much damage as a ranger yet still have all that fabulous CC. Each and every class should have it's roll in PVE and be viable to, and bring assets to a group. Currently on live, you know as well as everyone else that this isn't the case. These changes to the HR will make it a little more wanted in a group. Once again....
TOODLES!!!
Liell.
HRs have MUCH, much, MUCH better CC than CW in PvP. Good HRs keep my CW perma-disabled. I rarely get to shoot a spell at them, and when I do, it does little to no damage. If they deflect it, which happens often, they get healed. While I'm dazed and constricted, the HR has fun and shoots stuff at me and burst me down. When I am finally out of CC and shoot a spell, it's OK, since HR has conserved dodges and can now spam a few until he gets me CCed yet again.
Familiar?
Because the CC class has way less CC than the striker class in this instance.
The issue is now, that PVP is not balanced (yet again) Because HRs actually have some of the BEST pvp CC and burst as well....
For PVE? Sure this helps alot! But for PVP CWs have the shaft right now and HRs are pretty beastmode
u are being wrong buddy.... HR got some serious nerfs.. these buffs are compensates to the previous nerfs (split shot damage lowered by 45%... )
Actually there is actually a pattern here. Certain CW players complain about every class in PvP in turn to get them nerfed. First GWFs and TRs, and now HRs. If you don't believe me just check their previous post history....
I love you
Actually I think that Split Shot needs to be reworked entirely. If I were to fix this, I would give it a flat total damage that would be divided among targets but also give a upper limit to the amount of targets that would increase as the power is leveled up. 4 targets at 1st level, 5 at 2nd level, and 6 at 3rd level. The total damage should be slightly higher than rapid shot, but only because split shot is slower.
Edited to add: Currently on the live server I do have Split Shot slotted, but I am not a Split Shot spammer. I fire a few times at the beginning of an encounter then switch to Rapid Shot if I'm solo or Aimed Shot when in a party. Sometimes if I really want to be careful about aggro, then I don't use it at all. It just depends on the situation.
Also, there is a major problem with the way melee version works for archery speced rangers. Melee should be less powerful than archery if you're not speced for it, but currently I'm much better off shooting things with the bow even when things are at point blank range. I don't have any suggestions for this one, but it needs some looking into. Right now, I don't dare tab over to melee ever because every stinking time I end up dying. It just isn't worth it.
Wont argue the fact that on live right now foxes hitting a single target 4 times is a tad to much and that split shot on live is also a tad to much in pvp. But as you see, all that damage has been moved. The ranger will have less burst in PVP and be more viable for group PVE. As for CC in pvp surely you jest.....surely....No I'm not calling you shirley...Come on really? Compared to the train wreck that is a prone chain or repel/freeze/choke from a CW....really? No, just no. Rangers have constricting arrow, disrupting shot as a daily, hindering as a melee attack and that's highly situational and you must give up something much better for other uses to slot it. No......I have a CW,a GF and DC all at lvl 60 and I pvp with them. You're not selling me any ocean front property in arizona here folks with that nonsense. I know better.
These are all changes that are pretty much needed. Thank you, but strangely leaves my HR build unaffected except by the nerf to split shot.
Class Features: Storm Step, Twin Blades
Encounters: Marauders, Hindering, and Constricting (plus melee counterparts)
At Wills: Rapid, Split
Dailies: Disrupting, Forest Ghost
I move between melee and ranged based on what I'm still waiting for cooldown, using split as filler. This might get me to replace rapid with electric and move aimed to my right mouse button. I already swap to aimed for encounters I think it'll be useful. I'm more worried it leaves my go to encounter powers untouched and perhaps purposefully. They seem thought of as pvp powers and buffing them could be detrimental to pvp, but I find the extra damage from having both melee and ranged direct damage counterparts (unlike stuff like Split the Sky) integral to competing dps wise in groups at times on live already.
Plus these changes still leave me perplexed with the Pathfinder abilities (and class features)--is this meant to be the support path? If so, why the significant buff on Slasher's? I guess which is why I suggested earlier scrapping battlehoned, and cruel recovery for damage augmenting features (like buffing control damage/control bonus).
Anyway, these are definitely needed and good changes, but I still feel like my HR is in limbo DPS wise, but I'll have to play around with stuff like ambush+slasher's mark when the changes happen to see what other potential there is for the Pathfinder.
Is ambush being broken by DoT damage intended behavior?
Great news!
There are currently 2 bugs that will affect the testing and feel of changes to Fox Shift and Thorn Strike
Fox Shift: The +30% bonus damage to first target hit is currently not being applied.
Thorn Strike: Tooltip damage is not in line with actual damage - tooltip shows as roughly +40% of actual damage.
Also, since the skill is on the drawing board, I have always wondered the following of Boar Charge; is the delay between use and being able to attack again intentional? If so, reducing this delay would go a long way toward making this skill better.
I guess I can use this post as a chance to report another bug:
Ambush: tooltip damage is not in line with actual damage
tooltip shows: 1,698 - 2,040
Actual: [Combat (Self)] Your Ambush deals 1053 Physical to Target Dummy.
EDIT: Ambush damage seems to be applying off-hand weapon damage (instead of main hand) when triggered by a melee skill.
First one is not a bug, I think you just misunderstood the patch note. There is no +30% bonus to the first target hit. When the initial instant hit was removed and the power changed to 3 hits rather than 4, the damage of each hit was increased by 33% (meaning a net zero change to damage if all 3 hits land). Unless your +30% is coming from some other source I am not aware of.
Second, this is probably showing average damage. This is a slightly misleading behavior with powers that have buffs like this built into them. It might be easy to fix but I will have to dig.
If you did see it, feel free to delete this post.
Yes, if asked, and if that is the topic of discussion. I have no issues admitting certain classes, including HRs, are almost completely left out of "serious" PvE and not desired during the usual high end speed run. Or that CWs are very powerful because of bad dungeon design/bad mechanics. Or that any class that is purely specced for damage should compete for max DPS. Anybody looking through my posts can see I never had any desires but a rate of 50% wins for CW in PvP against similarly geared/specced/experienced opponents. This has nothing to do with PvE however and I really don't see why I should make a disclaimer to each of my PvP centric posts that "CW is however very good in PvE".
But since I already stated the reality, and this is a feedback topic, let's leave it uncluttered for the devs
If Electric Shot and Clear the ground is around same damage as Split shot and Split Strike. I would imagine no one will be using Split shot anymore, and it will be a dead skill. Perhaps a smaller reduction for Split shot damage, instead of 45% reduction compare to what it is in Live, make it 25%, so that it will still do more damage than Electric Shot by a small margin.
There is still a few older problems that needs to be looked at:
Marauders Escape: Does not work if character is in the air, eg jumping. While the Marauders Rush works in the same situation as long as you have a target. If Marauder Escape is WAI, perhaps give us a shorter cooldown, similar to a GWF missing Takedown. Player should not be penalised for casting while not on the ground.
When the skill is working, the animation can be interrupted very easily by any CC. The name and tooltip suggest it to be an escape, meaning we should be able to escape.
Shift: This doesn't allow the HR to dodge most CCs. Unlike a CW's shift where it can effective dodge any incoming attack.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)