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Cryptic OFFICIAL Feedback Thread: Refinement System
graalx3
Member Posts: 232
We have spent a lot of effort into making the experience of slotting, improving and unslotting Enchantments and Runestones much more enjoyable, totally reworking the entire system.
Every enchantment requires an amount of Refinement Points (RP) to be able to Upgrade it to the next rank. You gain RP by feeding the enchantment other enchantments, runestones and the new refining stones in the Item Refinement window. When you have accumulated enough RP to upgrade the enchantment you must go through the upgrade step. This step consumes certain catalyst items and has a chance of failure. Failing will consume the catalyst items as normal but will not affect the enchantment. If you have more catalyst items you can try again immediately. Succeed and you will be charged Astral Diamonds to complete the upgrade. Note that this is the only time in which you are charged Astral Diamonds for enchantments and runestones as the cost to unslot has been changed to gold.
That's basically it. There are a few refinements to the base system like being able to upgrade an enchantment while it’s slotted and you get bonus RP for consuming the same type of item. Wards are still available. Refining stones are a new treasure item type. They hold a lot of RP for your refining pleasure.
Just give the system a try and post any feedback and questions in this thread. I'll be reading all of your posts.
EDIT: Sorry about the typo in the title.
Every enchantment requires an amount of Refinement Points (RP) to be able to Upgrade it to the next rank. You gain RP by feeding the enchantment other enchantments, runestones and the new refining stones in the Item Refinement window. When you have accumulated enough RP to upgrade the enchantment you must go through the upgrade step. This step consumes certain catalyst items and has a chance of failure. Failing will consume the catalyst items as normal but will not affect the enchantment. If you have more catalyst items you can try again immediately. Succeed and you will be charged Astral Diamonds to complete the upgrade. Note that this is the only time in which you are charged Astral Diamonds for enchantments and runestones as the cost to unslot has been changed to gold.
That's basically it. There are a few refinements to the base system like being able to upgrade an enchantment while it’s slotted and you get bonus RP for consuming the same type of item. Wards are still available. Refining stones are a new treasure item type. They hold a lot of RP for your refining pleasure.
Just give the system a try and post any feedback and questions in this thread. I'll be reading all of your posts.
EDIT: Sorry about the typo in the title.
Post edited by graalx3 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
(Concise Feedback & Screen Shots are much appreciated)
Type: Bug, Feedback
(Pick one or the other)
Category: Refinement Window, Enchantments, Slotting, General
(Please write a category that best describes your feedback)
Example Posts:
Bug: Refinement Window: Enchantment
I am unable to refine my companion's Runestones without unslotting the runestone first.
Feedback: General: Slotting Enchantments
It would be nice to drag and drop enchantments into open enchant slots, but If already filled it would bring up the Item Refinement window instead!
The new Artifact items are also upgraded in rank and quality with this Item Refinement system, if you have feedback or find any bugs not related to the refinement changes, please make the posts in the thread below.
Artifact System: (Thread)
We look forward to hearing back from you!
- Drannic
Cryptic Studios
Questions:
1. Is this already available on the preview shard?
2. How is making us spend AD to upgrade enchants an improvement?
3. Assuming this will also affect weapon and armor enhancements, Will the current ratio of 85 coalescents, 256 shards to create a perfect become even more absurd?
4. How many AD are we talking about?
New known issue: If a player presses Sort while an Enchantment or Runestone with Refinement Points is in the inventory, it will stack with any others, thereby losing all its RP.
Temporary Workaround: When working with Enchantments and Runestones, avoid pressing the Sort button for now. The risk can be mitigated by keeping items with RP in separate bags from other versions of the same items.
Tried it. Hate it. It just make enchantments even more annoying to get, since you now need bank/bag space for every enchant with differing RP values and you need extra items as well as your wards. Hate it soo much. Please let this not make it to live.
Meanwhile...I'll be making as many high level enchants as I can on live so I can gear out in a R8s(with spares for my ranger) before Shadowmantle hits.
Feedback: Unslotting enchants costs gold
Unlike the above, I like this change. However, I feel that 2.5g to unslot a perfect enchant is ludicrously cheap.
If you use the fill all refining slots to refine multiple times, once you get down to less than 5 enchantments, it will still show all slots being filled and won't be able to refine.
Screenshot here - As you can see, it is trying to refine using 5 eldritch enchantments, but I only have 2 left so it fails.
Feedback: Cost to rank.
I think having new items (which come from who knows where), AD, and wards (unless you want a chance of failure) is too much to ask from the refining system. It is not making the system any easier to use.
What kind of failure chances are we looking at? Right now upgrading a rank 4 enchant to rank 5 requires points from 3 identical rank 4s and 2 catalysts. Currently there's a 60% chance of successfully fusing rank 4s to 5s. Assuming catalysts are roughly equal to current preservation wards, requiring 2 catalysts means fusion rates are much, much lower compared to the current system. (33% as opposed to 60%) Throwing in a chance of failure on top of that reduces the odds even further.
Feedback: General: Refining Enchantments
Requiring various catalysts already takes chances of failure into account. Eliminate the chance of failure. Required materials= successful refinement.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
1: Every single enchantment where you fill the refinement bar needs its own inventory slot, and we already don't have many of these.
2: Spare RP going over the enchantment limit seems to be lost, there should be at least a warning message that we are about to waste them. It's a "one time mistake never do it again" thing but imagine a new player loosing a bunch of MK8 enchantments that way.
3: Fusing shards into a lesser enchantments actually costs 20.000 Astral diamonds +the coalescent ward now... which, quite seriously, is pretty expensive. And I have yet to see the cost for fusing lesser and normal enchantments.
(The last thing the game needs is yet another Astral Diamond sink, especially one of that magnitude, and the costs for blue wards should be enough.)
3b: Speaking of wards, you still seem to need to use wards when fusing lesser radiant, azure etc. enchantments into bigger ones, and blue wards for the epic variants... +Astral diamonds.
4: You apparently need something called a Catalyst to fuse gems now. An Item called "Mark of Potency" that comes in white, green blue and purple. No one seems to know where to get it. They don't drop from monsters, it seems, and I checked every store in Protectors enclave and found nothing which, and I hope I'm wrong, seems to imply that it's another Z store Item.
So basically: The new system adds absolutely nothing to improve gem upgrades. They are still chance based, you just (Apparently) loose your Astral Diamonds now, instead of your gems, and you still need to buy wards to combat that. (Yeah I know I get a single green ward once a week from celestial coins, but that won't really cut it)
Collecting marks of potency makes it also much harder (And possibly more expensive) to combine them and get even basic ones, and the added Astral Diamond cost is just nasty.
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how is making the refining system so complicated more enjoyable to anyone?
the feeding system might be nice, since we have the option to feed unused rune/enchant to get RP, but having an extra catalyst and DAT AD SINK is a big no no
Tested it:
Lesser->Normal is 50,000AD
Normal to Greater is 75,000AD
Greater to Perfect is 100,000AD
Not including the needed coal ward and the fact you still need 4 of each type.
"We have spent a lot of effort into making the experience of slotting, improving and unslotting Enchantments and Runestones much more enjoyable, totally reworking the entire system. "
As the build stands this goal was not accomplished. I like the thinking behind the change, you can use different enchantments/ runestones to upgrade the ones you want. However, in practice you made it more expensive (not good), more confusing, more complicated, uses more items to upgrade (enchantment, ward, catalyst) and finally you also managed to make enchantments take up even more bag space.
Please take a look at refining again. I really hope it doesn't make it live as is.
initial thought: what is this catalyst item and where do i get it? it doesn't even say in the tooltip where to get them from.
after reading the explanation in this thread: seems a little more complicated than the original method especially if it's going to be providing the same old upgrades. if i can feed any rank azures to a r7 dark, why couldn't i also get azure attributes on that enchantment? especially if i am also going to need to locate/farm/buy a catalyst item AND pay AD to create certain enchantment upgrades? i think this kind of system, if it's going to be complicated, needs to be worth the complication. initially i thought it was going to make ranking up enchants easier but add the rest of the requirements and imho it's the exact opposite.
on the enchant removal costs... 2.5 gold seems a little low. i was very surprised to see that price although i am assuming that the reason why that was chosen was because of the AD price of upgrading enchants. at that cost, i certainly wouldn't have that nervous uncertain feeling whenever i slot a weapon/armor enchant.
Tried it. Didn't like it. I thought it was supposed to be easier? Then again I never thought right clicking a stack of 4 enchantments and selecting Fuse was very difficult in the first place. Either I am missing something or you guys missed the mark by a mile.
The AD cost seems to be way to high as well. So every time I make, for example, a rank 4 enchantment it will cost me 25,000 AD? That's a bit ridiculous if true. I only messed around with it a few minutes because I found it confusing but that's at least what my initial impression was. Regardless, I did not find the process "more enjoyable" in the least. I'll be sure to make as many high ranks as I can before this goes live and that will be it for me as far as enchantments going forward.
However I do like the change of using gold to unslot an enchantment.
Refining an enchantment that is slotted into an item already shows the wrong amount of refinement needed. It says it needs 10 instead of whatever actual amount it needs.
Feedback: Refinement Cost
After crunching the numbers it appears to require 3 enchantments of the same type and level at rank 1-3 to upgrade (1 that gets ranked up, 2 to get the refinement points required), 4 enchantments of the same type and level at rank 4-6 (1 that gets ranked up, 2 to get the refinement points required), and then 6! enchantments for rank 7-9 (1 that gets ranked up, 1 that is used as a catalyst, and to to get the refinement points required). I much preferred the old way of 4 enchantments across the board.
I know you can use more of other types to rank it up and that you can save on using wards under this new method, but I still don't like this new system.
makin' them from rank4 to rank5 without preservation wards it fails everytime, without losing considerate numbers of rank4 i need to use preservation wards.. but is outragous to lose 10 pres just to make 1 r5 dark ! fix it please.. with silvery i don't have any problem.. goes to r6 without preservation ..
1. Will praying each day give you catalysts instead?
2. Will current coalescent be of a lesser use they are now?
Hoping not to regret of recently buying the Hero of the North pack.
100% agree
I really want to know if this is something the Devs are saying "we are thinking about maybe... maybe changing into this" or if we are facing a situation like "This is what is gonna be like now, we'll do minor tweaks from you feedbacks but it is what it is."
What's wrong with you?
I bet the catalyst items will come from lockboxes or zen store.
Have to agree 100 percent with this comment. I can't believe that you even consider this change. It shows incredibly poor judgement. I have disagreed with many previous changes but this has to be the worst i could imagine.
For me it took 10 rank four azures to have a 60% chance to use 1000 AD to make a rank 5 azure. Still looking for that improvement.
the way i would done this would be only cost of ad to upgrade and no fail chance 1>2 2k ad ,2>3 4k ad ,3>4 8k ad, 4>5 16k ad, 5>6 32k ad,7>8 64k ad,8>9 128k ad, 9>10 256k this system would use for normal gems and for special would use
shards>lesser 32k ad,leser>normal 64k ad,normal>greater 128k ad and greater >perfect 256k ad
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I really can not understand why so much time as been put into developing this new system while there are many, many other parts of the game that ergently need attention and fixing.
There was nothing wrong with the original enchanting system, why waste so much time changing somthing that functioned perfectly well before, i realy dont understand some of the development that is focused on things in the game that work perfectly well and have never had any issues.
If it is working well = leave it alone, if it is broken = fix it
To experiment with this process, I moved all my characters to preview and condensed all my wards and stones with all enchants off of 5 characters to one. I also moved all my ADs to this character and ran the numbers. I had to move a sizable store of my enchantment bank for this. I was not able generate a single Rank 9 off of my enchants using stones and wards, but at my rate I estimated about 2000 Rank 4s would be needed. It also would cost about 650K ADs in addition to those R4s and wards.
I believe I've seen numbers around 9000 R4 enchants in the old system, but that does not lessen the huge cost of ADs in this 'new' method. Really dirty cryptic, really dirty. So it will now be down to the haves and have nots, widening the valley for new players to compete against those 'lucky' players who got it all before the changes. I call this a fail.
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Thank you to everyone providing constructive feedback!
Additional clarification: Refinement Points gained past 100% will carry over to the next Upgrade level. We are working on UI improvements to make that clearer.