pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited August 2013
The dev has a way with words that's the problem
"Duration is the same" but......
Unstoppable duration is now tied to the temp health.. Which they did nerf how much temp health you get... So yes the duration has been reduced significantly.. The dev just doesn't want to concede that.... Trying to sugar coat it... Trust me the duration is significantly lower now
Aww I made little pvp baddie mad. Sorry your crutch is being ripped away from you
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited August 2013
Anyone that brings there GWF to a t2 dungeon or CN will be shocked at just how bad they are now... It's not even funny... Before they had some viability in pve and still didn't get a party.. Now they aren't even viable... Devs have no idea what is going on... Absolutely no idea
Im sorry but that is irrelevant.. However your mechanics design and work the duration of unstoppable is still around 40% less.. Whether it is tied to another mechanic or not doesn't matter.. It's application is now at a point of it not being very useful at all...
And I wonder so you devs actually log in and try these mechanics before you implement them? Cause with these changes the GWF went from the worst pvp class by a fair bit to being completely ok another level in terms of how bad their mechanics are!
The duration is still 8 seconds with a full bar. If you activate it with less than a full bar it will last for less time.
It's also possible that you might be associating the yellow bar on your health with the actual Unstoppable effect. The yellow bar represents your temporary hit points, and previously could last longer than Unstoppable itself.
If you're seeing a full bar of Unstoppable only lasting for 5 seconds than that will certainly need to be looked into.
EDIT: Losing all your temp health does not end Unstoppable. Unstoppable ends when the bar on the left runs out.
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
The duration is still 8 seconds with a full bar. If you activate it with less than a full bar it will last for less time.
It's also possible that you might be associating the yellow bar on your health with the actual Unstoppable effect. The yellow bar represents your temporary hit points, and previously could last longer than Unstoppable itself.
If you're seeing a full bar of Unstoppable only lasting for 5 seconds than that will certainly need to be looked into.
Unstoppable now can drop out anytime once it's gets past the half duration point on the meter so it does drop off regularly after 4-5 seconds
Unstoppable now can drop out anytime once it's gets past the half duration point on the meter so it does drop off regularly after 4-5 seconds
What were you fighting at the time you saw this behavior?
When it fell off did the icon remove itself, and the afterimage shrink back down?
I haven't been able to find any situations yet that would cause it to randomly fall off in mid use, but if there is some bug doing that I'd certainly like to track it down.
Has anyone else experienced this? (Bearing in mind that the yellow bar on your health is temp health, not Unstoppable)
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
What were you fighting at the time you saw this behavior?
When it fell off did the icon remove itself, and the afterimage shrink back down?
I haven't been able to find any situations yet that would cause it to randomly fall off in mid use, but if there is some bug doing that I'd certainly like to track it down.
Has anyone else experienced this? (Bearing in mind that the yellow bar on your health is temp health, not Unstoppable)
Yes in combat.. I will test again later today as I'm about to board an aircraft from Malaysia to Australia...
Also just want to make sure u guys do realise the new GWF is horrible for pve right? U guys are aware of how bad they are now?
What were you fighting at the time you saw this behavior?
When it fell off did the icon remove itself, and the afterimage shrink back down?
I haven't been able to find any situations yet that would cause it to randomly fall off in mid use, but if there is some bug doing that I'd certainly like to track it down.
Has anyone else experienced this? (Bearing in mind that the yellow bar on your health is temp health, not Unstoppable)
Also I have been trying to find out if crit severity is capped and if it is where it is capped? Could u help shed a light on this as nobody seems to know
I have not been able to replicate the effect of the shorter Unstoppable on the Preview server. I compared both unstoppable on Live vs Preview, and both are about 8.75sec from the start of the animation. I only timed the Unstoppable uptime without being in combat. So I triggered it and just stood there. So if there is something that decreases its duration, it has to be a bug with being in combat.
Should note that the damage resistance being lowered is actually a tooltip display error, and will be fixed.
They still currently resist between 25-50% incoming damage while Unstoppable.
Edit: Should also mention that the duration did not change. Just that temp health is now actually tied to Unstoppable duration.
My beef is not totaly w/ unstopable thats great that there is a tool tip error. However the patch stated it was reducing the GWF class deflect. Our point is you have made all of the other lines weaker when your original complaint had to do with a specific path not the class in its entirty. Your title says combat designer I mean you know better than any that if you do a base deflect/defense hit to the class it effect's all of them. You also know that the other lines don't have a huge survivabilty because they sacrifice defense for ofense getting the huge numbers.
The real issue is the Sentinel build allowed them to get gear with defense/deflect and regen along w/ enchantments that grant short duration immunities. So now they can't crit IBS for big 15k hits but guess what they don't have to when 1 5-8k ibs has the potential (and does quite frequently) to daisy chain proc 5-7 tene proc's at max health around 2k-3k depending on hp. That is OP you have crazy deflect crazy defense and you can kite regen 300+ a tic and still dish out damage.
So you could easily make stacking/procing changes and solve way more. You probably put more in to making it worse than better and now you have to listen to the grief and potentialy lose income.
I think better use of time would be to scale power stats better reduce the temporary hp leave the stat bonuses from unstopable. Tweek how determination is generated. Adjust the sentinal path not the class base stats. Make Tene enchants multiple ones increase a proc rate and put a cool down on it no reason to have 7 procs going off like that 1 goes off guess what the others don't.
That would be a more realistic start then cutting our round parts off.
Also the patch notes talked about slam making it more of a utility as intended. I would like to see more utility out of the class its self. You have it designed to be but have yet to implement it.
Dev's don't take this as a hit to you. This is feedback from your customers. We obviously appreciate your work and efforts so much that we have allready become passionate enough to provide input and get peeved about the things instead of just leaving.
What were you fighting at the time you saw this behavior?
When it fell off did the icon remove itself, and the afterimage shrink back down?
Duergar in the Whispering Caverns.
I've gone Unstoppable at any time between 50-100% Determination, the animations starts, I hulk up, Determination goes below 50% and anytime between then and 0% the un-hulking animations starts and I'm back to normal. Determination often drops to 0 a short while after that, bounces back up a bit, then goes back to 0.
I haven't been able to find any situations yet that would cause it to randomly fall off in mid use, but if there is some bug doing that I'd certainly like to track it down.
Has anyone else experienced this? (Bearing in mind that the yellow bar on your health is temp health, not Unstoppable)
Yes, I have not been able to NOT notice it yet, as it happens EVERY time. Determination diminishes a lot faster, I could be Unstoppable the entire fight with the same Duergar on live, on preview I lost it halfway the fight, randomly when Determination was below 50%.
The real issue is the Sentinel build allowed them to get gear with defense/deflect and regen along w/ enchantments that grant short duration immunities. So now they can't crit IBS for big 15k hits but guess what they don't have to when 1 5-8k ibs has the potential (and does quite frequently) to daisy chain proc 5-7 tene proc's at max health around 2k-3k depending on hp. That is OP you have crazy deflect crazy defense and you can kite regen 300+ a tic and still dish out damage.
You should realize ANY class with 7 g tene is OP... but its also what brings GWF down - they meet 7tene GWF in PvP and instantly start crying how Sentinel is OP. (mainly bc its most popular along with GF to stack those)
I myself see natural Sentinel spec has same surviabilty like full-tank do.
I was also noticing the quick drop in unstoppable on preview. I did some unscientific testing, I hit tab and started to count... one thousand one, one thousand two, etc. I never got past one thousand four before unstoppable was completely gone, and one time it was gone by one thousand two ( that time the hulk up animation finished and the animation immediately went back to my "normal" self), a note on this; I always waited till I had full determination to test this so it was not because of different amounts of determination. The "feel" of the problem seemed to me to be that the duration of unstoppable was being reduced by damage taken because the shortest unstoppable happened when I was fighting the largest groups of mobs.
just tryed the new gwf and have to say it workes great in pve and pvp(much better then before for pve).slams dps is in reality about the same but extra utility is amazing.spinning strike is for sure the best dps daily in the game now.so much mentioned unstoppable nerf is barely noticed(i use destroyer build).deflection nerf was needed indeed but only sent will fell it (defflect stacking one). good nerf for balance in pvp and buff for pve.we are more viable then ever now.
just tryed the new gwf and have to say it workes great in pve and pvp(much better then before for pve).slams dps is in reality about the same but extra utility is amazing.spinning strike is for sure the best dps daily in the game now.so much mentioned unstoppable nerf is barely noticed(i use destroyer build).deflection nerf was needed indeed but only sent will fell it (defflect stacking one). good nerf for balance in pvp and buff for pve.we are more viable then ever now.
Wrong. Destroyer as well as Instigator feel the deflection change more so than Sentinel spec.
Sentinel spec is so op that when it got the nerf bat it deflected it to the other two paths.
Maybe they should change the GWF Shift to be able to deflect attacks while running or be able to dodge for a percentage of attacks, or even change the mechanics that while attacking they deflect twice as much but lose a bit of the dps, sort of what it would look like realistically, even deflecting some of the damage back or something. GWF should be able to dive inside mobs and do decent aoe dps and come out alive. That would add up to the utility they are aiming for the GWF, even a slight damage mitigation while pressing shift would be better about 20-30%.
Of course if they would do that there needs to be some slight re balancing to the op builds, better yet the OP enchantments. well.. what do I know, I'm just stating whats on my mind XD
nah instigator is op played right it is ultimate dps of the game.and why they need deflect when this is not pvp build lol. defflect with so much dps aoe...you want singulaity with that to?
Well, to make it simple, they should add something to the GWF Shift key, some kind of mitigation or dodge, maybe that can help. The way it is, mobs can still chase you fast even if you sprint so a little defensive attribute to that mechanic would be welcome and not that much OP. TR, CW, and DC can dodge, GF can block, what does GWF have? run face first? XD just my opinion tho
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited August 2013
I haven't played in a month, and it seems like there are no reasons to return either.
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austing2013Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited August 2013
Yup, looks like I'm done.
The game's a hollow shell anyway. There's just not much to do at cap other than speedruns, one pvp map, or cheesefarm GG.
Reading this thread made me realise how much I was relying on Slam and Unstoppable in my Dungeon runs. I could wipe trash mobs using Slam, than hit Unstoppable several times to stay alive among all the mobs converging on me. Perhaps it was a bit OP ??? Was top of the dps chart in two Pirate King runs, and by 5-600k.
Yet this tatctic always had it's risks, and had to rely on good healing ... I wonder if it will be still viable.
Whatever we deny or embrace, we belong togheter./ Pat Benatar
I found a bug that was causing it, and it will get fixed.
Essentially things that could normally build Determination (while not using Unstoppable) were causing it to drain faster.
This was definitely not an intended change, so thanks everyone for bringing it up.
I found a bug that was causing it, and it will get fixed.
Essentially things that could normally build Determination (while not using Unstoppable) were causing it to drain faster.
This was definitely not an intended change, so thanks everyone for bringing it up.
Thank you very much for the response...
Would you be kind enough to respond to the possibility of a Target Cap increase for Slam and/or our AOE At-Will abilities? Just curious, and thank you in advance!
I found a bug that was causing it, and it will get fixed.
Essentially things that could normally build Determination (while not using Unstoppable) were causing it to drain faster.
This was definitely not an intended change, so thanks everyone for bringing it up.
Comments
"Duration is the same" but......
Unstoppable duration is now tied to the temp health.. Which they did nerf how much temp health you get... So yes the duration has been reduced significantly.. The dev just doesn't want to concede that.... Trying to sugar coat it... Trust me the duration is significantly lower now
Aww I made little pvp baddie mad. Sorry your crutch is being ripped away from you
The duration is still 8 seconds with a full bar. If you activate it with less than a full bar it will last for less time.
It's also possible that you might be associating the yellow bar on your health with the actual Unstoppable effect. The yellow bar represents your temporary hit points, and previously could last longer than Unstoppable itself.
If you're seeing a full bar of Unstoppable only lasting for 5 seconds than that will certainly need to be looked into.
EDIT: Losing all your temp health does not end Unstoppable. Unstoppable ends when the bar on the left runs out.
Unstoppable now can drop out anytime once it's gets past the half duration point on the meter so it does drop off regularly after 4-5 seconds
What were you fighting at the time you saw this behavior?
When it fell off did the icon remove itself, and the afterimage shrink back down?
I haven't been able to find any situations yet that would cause it to randomly fall off in mid use, but if there is some bug doing that I'd certainly like to track it down.
Has anyone else experienced this? (Bearing in mind that the yellow bar on your health is temp health, not Unstoppable)
Yes in combat.. I will test again later today as I'm about to board an aircraft from Malaysia to Australia...
Also just want to make sure u guys do realise the new GWF is horrible for pve right? U guys are aware of how bad they are now?
And also sometimes i see it just drop off, mainly because being knock back but sometimes it just drop off for no reason.
Also I have been trying to find out if crit severity is capped and if it is where it is capped? Could u help shed a light on this as nobody seems to know
My beef is not totaly w/ unstopable thats great that there is a tool tip error. However the patch stated it was reducing the GWF class deflect. Our point is you have made all of the other lines weaker when your original complaint had to do with a specific path not the class in its entirty. Your title says combat designer I mean you know better than any that if you do a base deflect/defense hit to the class it effect's all of them. You also know that the other lines don't have a huge survivabilty because they sacrifice defense for ofense getting the huge numbers.
The real issue is the Sentinel build allowed them to get gear with defense/deflect and regen along w/ enchantments that grant short duration immunities. So now they can't crit IBS for big 15k hits but guess what they don't have to when 1 5-8k ibs has the potential (and does quite frequently) to daisy chain proc 5-7 tene proc's at max health around 2k-3k depending on hp. That is OP you have crazy deflect crazy defense and you can kite regen 300+ a tic and still dish out damage.
So you could easily make stacking/procing changes and solve way more. You probably put more in to making it worse than better and now you have to listen to the grief and potentialy lose income.
I think better use of time would be to scale power stats better reduce the temporary hp leave the stat bonuses from unstopable. Tweek how determination is generated. Adjust the sentinal path not the class base stats. Make Tene enchants multiple ones increase a proc rate and put a cool down on it no reason to have 7 procs going off like that 1 goes off guess what the others don't.
That would be a more realistic start then cutting our round parts off.
Also the patch notes talked about slam making it more of a utility as intended. I would like to see more utility out of the class its self. You have it designed to be but have yet to implement it.
Dev's don't take this as a hit to you. This is feedback from your customers. We obviously appreciate your work and efforts so much that we have allready become passionate enough to provide input and get peeved about the things instead of just leaving.
Duergar in the Whispering Caverns.
I've gone Unstoppable at any time between 50-100% Determination, the animations starts, I hulk up, Determination goes below 50% and anytime between then and 0% the un-hulking animations starts and I'm back to normal. Determination often drops to 0 a short while after that, bounces back up a bit, then goes back to 0.
Yes, I have not been able to NOT notice it yet, as it happens EVERY time. Determination diminishes a lot faster, I could be Unstoppable the entire fight with the same Duergar on live, on preview I lost it halfway the fight, randomly when Determination was below 50%.
I did make a bugreport.
You should realize ANY class with 7 g tene is OP... but its also what brings GWF down - they meet 7tene GWF in PvP and instantly start crying how Sentinel is OP. (mainly bc its most popular along with GF to stack those)
I myself see natural Sentinel spec has same surviabilty like full-tank do.
Wrong. Destroyer as well as Instigator feel the deflection change more so than Sentinel spec.
Sentinel spec is so op that when it got the nerf bat it deflected it to the other two paths.
Of course if they would do that there needs to be some slight re balancing to the op builds, better yet the OP enchantments. well.. what do I know, I'm just stating whats on my mind XD
The game's a hollow shell anyway. There's just not much to do at cap other than speedruns, one pvp map, or cheesefarm GG.
No big loss.
The Unstoppable thing... Eh, that not a fan of at all really. Then again I'll make due with whatever happens, just hope they work it together well.
Yet this tatctic always had it's risks, and had to rely on good healing ... I wonder if it will be still viable.
So following up on Unstoppable ending early.
I found a bug that was causing it, and it will get fixed.
Essentially things that could normally build Determination (while not using Unstoppable) were causing it to drain faster.
This was definitely not an intended change, so thanks everyone for bringing it up.
Oh, I like you.
Would you be kind enough to respond to the possibility of a Target Cap increase for Slam and/or our AOE At-Will abilities? Just curious, and thank you in advance!
Thanks, that's one scare less.
It seems to be on vacation, or completely absent.
My congratulations to the GWFs.
I want this class in NW.
When your divine power just stops working randomly in PvP lol
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Any chance we could get Roar push back changed?
Either remove it completely or give it a bigger push back.
I'd prefer it removed completely as that push back is a minor DPs loss.