they have 3 stun abilities compared to every other class in the game the main one is the ice floor thing remove the lift stun from it and make it a slow enemy spell so its balanced with rest of classes.
You are playing as a TR in Elemental Evil- TR is Op as hell nowadays- you are saying : no TR is not OP
You show us your movie from Shadovmantle module- where GWF was a king of pvp, he could tank whole team and he was unkillable + he can smash easy every other classes and you said: "it was near perfectly balanced for me".
Please stop, because now you are not even funny you are ridiculous.
Hmm...while looking over your 8 pages of posts, I realize we certainly have nothing to talk about. You complain about literally every single class in this game, in one or more of your posts.
they have 3 stun abilities compared to every other class in the game the main one is the ice floor thing remove the lift stun from it and make it a slow enemy spell so its balanced with rest of classes.
This thread made my heart happy.
BTW, HAI ALYISIN!!!
Tenacity PvP Guild Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard twitch.tv/Divine1982
CWs are powerful I agree, and their damage in comparison to every other class is above average, but if you have enough control resist on your character a control wizard cant do much of anything to you.
I do agree however that TRs are a bit too OP. Its ridiculous how you can be sitting at a point and all of a sudden *knife strike*, and then in an instant you are dead without having had any time to react. However, TRs in general are even squishier than HRs. If you get the jump on them first, there's really nothing they can do. And other than the backstab ability, they dont have any other power to fear. If the mods nerfed their backstab ability, they would probably be entirely useless because they only have one good move to begin with....
CWs are powerful I agree, and their damage in comparison to every other class is above average, but if you have enough control resist on your character a control wizard cant do much of anything to you.
I do agree however that TRs are a bit too OP. Its ridiculous how you can be sitting at a point and all of a sudden *knife strike*, and then in an instant you are dead without having had any time to react. However, TRs in general are even squishier than HRs. If you get the jump on them first, there's really nothing they can do. And other than the backstab ability, they dont have any other power to fear. If the mods nerfed their backstab ability, they would probably be entirely useless because they only have one good move to begin with....
There is always time to react to any encounter, its just how much you are paying attention.
I recommend using head phones when playing and listening to the game sound. Every encounter from every class in this game has a sound. Hear the sound>dodge>win. The only time I seem to get hit with a lashing is when I'm not paying attention in a large fight, even then Lashing is generally pitiful damage because of my deflect.
I wish they would nerf Lashing. In fact, they could completely get rid of it for all I care. Its useless in PvP high end premades and I personally feel its a waste to use in PvE. Its good at making new undergeared players cry, that is all
I agree with OP, CWs are indeed too powerful for their own good and need to be dealt with.
Just yesterday there was a full premade of five wizards that took turns chain choking me on two, whilst my teammates roasted marshmallows in the spawn. I feel utterly violated.....
I agree with OP, CWs are indeed too powerful for their own good and need to be dealt with.
Just yesterday there was a full premade of five wizards that took turns chain choking me on two, whilst my teammates roasted marshmallows in the spawn. I feel utterly violated.....
Wait till mod 6....
Tenacity PvP Guild Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard twitch.tv/Divine1982
3 Rogues running perma stealth high con/regen ala Skill in our guild.
2 running perma daze (or WK SOD) for point rotation.
We've already had a ton of success with 4 rogue + 1 or 5 rogues lol.
I'm assuming that WK SOD means Whisperknife Shadow of Demise? I specced this path as an ignorant newb to the game. Been toying with a re-roll, but putting it off since she actually performs pretty well. Still, everything I've read seems to indicate that this is a poor set-up. So I am VERY curious about you saying that there is actually a desirable role for this build in pre-made.
Any chance you could elaborate a bit on the topic?
I'm assuming that WK SOD means Whisperknife Shadow of Demise? I specced this path as an ignorant newb to the game. Been toying with a re-roll, but putting it off since she actually performs pretty well. Still, everything I've read seems to indicate that this is a poor set-up. So I am VERY curious about you saying that there is actually a desirable role for this build in pre-made.
Any chance you could elaborate a bit on the topic?
Yeah, Whisper Knife SOD. Sly Flourish/Disheartening Strike. Dazing Strike/Vengeance Pursuit/shadow strike (can throw Impact shot in there sometimes too).
Basically you build for a moderate amount of health, (I'm at 32K) 48 percent deflection, 800 Tenacity, 5.5k power, 2,900 arp, 38 chance to crit, 1600+ regen, 1100+ Lifesteal.
A fairly damage heavy but balanced array of stats at 60 (17.6K GS)
Always start the fight stealth and open with a DHStrike on everyone on the node (stacking all that crazy dot damage and the life steal + sod tick which is in turn even more health)
ie group fight
Once everyone is dotted find either the CW or the HR and throw your veng pursuit at them. They will nine times out of ten spot you and open with a cc, as soon as they cc you follow up with your second part of VP to get out of their CC and tele to them with an interupt on contact (from the exe feat). That interupt will allow you to perfectly follow up with a dazing strike, while they're dazed hit them with a shadow strike immediately followed by a full stealth combo sly flourish (pref with the artifact weapon) and the incoming SOD from that. Meanwhile they're ticking for 2k a pop from DH.
If you get low health just use your decent base regen and dot people for the life steal while in stealth. It actually works really well. You do miss ITC but VP makes up for a lot of that. It's a good build for point rotation or quickly taking out targets/really stressing out a dc on a point. Almost all of our rogues who aren't permastealth/sc run a build like this.
Sorry for the poor grammar I'm at work and trying to do this quickly.
Right now, with a legendary Sly Flourish Artifact and my Power where it is, it's very hard to survive a full stealth sly flour combo. I've seen single swings hit for 13k.
With 4 piece profound and first strike, you can almost kill someone with a single DH strike from stealth over time lol. I don't normally run First Strike because Advantageous Position works so well with the combo I posted above, and I can't live without Tenacious Concealment.
FYI You will lose to Skullcrackers 1v1 unless they suck or you get some jumps. You can stalemate those fights on a point, but it's not an easy fight to win against a good rogue. All you have to do is catch them once tho, and remember, if you get that VP off, you can easily break their daze chain with it.
Aeneas/Einherjar/No Skill
(Iron Lotus)
Dragon Born Rouge GS 17.6k in Profound
Not to be confused with Rogue, I truly am the red makeup women put on their cheeks.
I'm assuming that WK SOD means Whisperknife Shadow of Demise? I specced this path as an ignorant newb to the game. Been toying with a re-roll, but putting it off since she actually performs pretty well. Still, everything I've read seems to indicate that this is a poor set-up. So I am VERY curious about you saying that there is actually a desirable role for this build in pre-made.
Any chance you could elaborate a bit on the topic?
In my opinion you can make a build of any of the three Tiers viable. It all depends on player skill and gear, and play style.
All of them have there pro's and con's.
WK/Exec is certainly not a common build and I can attest to it being one of the more difficult roles to play, but there are TR's using it that are very very good.
i don't hate the character i just hate how its being abused i could make one and be like everyone else but that's how pc pvp died and pve is dead as well because no one wants any other class because that one is far to oped.
LMFAO, CW is how PC pvp died. Funniest thing I've seen on the forums in weeks.
Yeah, Whisper Knife SOD. Sly Flourish/Disheartening Strike. Dazing Strike/Vengeance Pursuit/shadow strike (can throw Impact shot in there sometimes too).
Basically you build for a moderate amount of health, (I'm at 32K) 48 percent deflection, 800 Tenacity, 5.5k power, 38 chance to crit, 1600+ regen, 1100+ Lifesteal.
A fairly damage heavy but balanced array of stats at 60 (17.6K GS)
Always start the fight stealth and open with a DHStrike on everyone on the node (stacking all that crazy dot damage and the life steal + sod tick which is in turn even more health)
ie group fight
Once everyone is dotted find either the CW or the HR and throw your veng pursuit at them. They will nine times out of ten spot you and open with a cc, as soon as they cc you follow up with your second part of VP to get out of their CC and tele to them with an interupt on contact (from the exe feat). That interupt will allow you to perfectly follow up with a dazing strike, while they're dazed hit them with a shadow strike immediately followed by a full stealth combo sly flourish (pref with the artifact weapon) and the incoming SOD from that. Meanwhile they're ticking for 2k a pop from DH.
If you get low health just use your decent base regen and dot people for the life steal while in stealth. It actually works really well. You do miss ITC but VP makes up for a lot of that. It's a good build for point rotation or quickly taking out targets/really stressing out a dc on a point. Almost all of our rogues who aren't permastealth/sc run a build like this.
Sorry for the poor grammar I'm at work and trying to do this quickly.
Right now, with a legendary Sly Flourish Artifact and my Power where it is, it's very hard to survive a full stealth sly flour combo. I've seen single swings hit for 13k.
With 4 piece profound and first strike, you can almost kill someone with a single DH strike from stealth over time lol. I don't normally run First Strike because Advantageous Position works so well with the combo I posted above, and I can't live without Tenacious Concealment.
FYI You will lose to Skullcrackers 1v1 unless they suck or you get some jumps. You can stalemate those fights on a point, but it's not an easy fight to win against a good rogue. All you have to do is catch them once tho, and remember, if you get that VP off, you can easily break their daze chain with it.
Lazy,
Thanks for the detailed answer! Very much appreciated.
You've given me a lot to think about.
Our openings are identical (stealth, spread the DiS love, VP mark the high threat target).
Key difference with what I am doing right now, is that I actually slot Cos instead of Flourish. I use range to try and bait people away from my mark.
My rotation is VP into dazing into smokebomb. That leaves the mark slowed, dazed and staggering through the middle of a poisonous cloud. They're hopefully locked out while I'm throwing CA powered daggers to the face thanks to A. Position.
But against well geared, high HP targets, CoS is more of a nuissance than a real threat. I might experiment with SS and Flourish, although it will be tough to wean off of the CoS habit.
Again, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thanks!
Thanks for the detailed answer! Very much appreciated.
You've given me a lot to think about.
Our openings are identical (stealth, spread the DiS love, VP mark the high threat target).
Key difference with what I am doing right now, is that I actually slot Cos instead of Flourish. I use range to try and bait people away from my mark.
My rotation is VP into dazing into smokebomb. That leaves the mark slowed, dazed and staggering through the middle of a poisonous cloud. They're hopefully locked out while I'm throwing CA powered daggers to the face thanks to A. Position.
But against well geared, high HP targets, CoS is more of a nuissance than a real threat. I might experiment with SS and Flourish, although it will be tough to wean off of the CoS habit.
Again, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thanks!
If you like using CoS, you should check out a WK/Sab build. The damage from Shadow Opportunity/CoS with DS is disgusting. Like, you will be shocked how much damage comes from just CoS with that feat. Shadow Strike/VP/(dazing/deft/SB). Lurkers Assault for a daily and you'll kill just about anyone in a few seconds with just CoS.
Its more meant for MI Paragon, running ITC/SS/Dazing but it can work well with WK as well.
If you like using CoS, you should check out a WK/Sab build. The damage from Shadow Opportunity/CoS with DS is disgusting. Like, you will be shocked how much damage comes from just CoS with that feat. Shadow Strike/VP/(dazing/deft/SB). Lurkers Assault for a daily and you'll kill just about anyone in a few seconds with just CoS.
Its more meant for MI Paragon, running ITC/SS/Dazing but it can work well with WK as well.
Yeah, I've been theory-crafting a WK Sab for a while now. It is my choice spec for if/when I re-roll. I chose Exe initially because it seemed like the easiest path to learn the game with. I chose WK because I usually love blink/teleport abilities.
I've been delaying a re-roll because A) my little TR actually still performs quite well, so I don't exactly feel pressured to change things up (or maybe I'm just being lazy), and I typically like to play very aggressive, and I've really enjoyed VPing into a group of enemies and going HAM! Worried that I might not enjoy the play-style of perma as much.
But with re-rolls only costing $5 a pop, I'm sure I'll be giving it a go pretty soon.
Couple of questions on the build for ya:
Prioritize INT/CON, INT/CHA, or something else?
Why Deft Strike? To proc Return to Shadows?
Does DiS proc the full Shadowy Opportunity all on the first hit, or is it divided over each tick?
Yeah, Whisper Knife SOD. Sly Flourish/Disheartening Strike. Dazing Strike/Vengeance Pursuit/shadow strike (can throw Impact shot in there sometimes too).
Basically you build for a moderate amount of health, (I'm at 32K) 48 percent deflection, 800 Tenacity, 5.5k power, 2,900 arp, 38 chance to crit, 1600+ regen, 1100+ Lifesteal.
A fairly damage heavy but balanced array of stats at 60 (17.6K GS)
Always start the fight stealth and open with a DHStrike on everyone on the node (stacking all that crazy dot damage and the life steal + sod tick which is in turn even more health)
ie group fight
Once everyone is dotted find either the CW or the HR and throw your veng pursuit at them. They will nine times out of ten spot you and open with a cc, as soon as they cc you follow up with your second part of VP to get out of their CC and tele to them with an interupt on contact (from the exe feat). That interupt will allow you to perfectly follow up with a dazing strike, while they're dazed hit them with a shadow strike immediately followed by a full stealth combo sly flourish (pref with the artifact weapon) and the incoming SOD from that. Meanwhile they're ticking for 2k a pop from DH.
If you get low health just use your decent base regen and dot people for the life steal while in stealth. It actually works really well. You do miss ITC but VP makes up for a lot of that. It's a good build for point rotation or quickly taking out targets/really stressing out a dc on a point. Almost all of our rogues who aren't permastealth/sc run a build like this.
Sorry for the poor grammar I'm at work and trying to do this quickly.
Right now, with a legendary Sly Flourish Artifact and my Power where it is, it's very hard to survive a full stealth sly flour combo. I've seen single swings hit for 13k.
With 4 piece profound and first strike, you can almost kill someone with a single DH strike from stealth over time lol. I don't normally run First Strike because Advantageous Position works so well with the combo I posted above, and I can't live without Tenacious Concealment.
FYI You will lose to Skullcrackers 1v1 unless they suck or you get some jumps. You can stalemate those fights on a point, but it's not an easy fight to win against a good rogue. All you have to do is catch them once tho, and remember, if you get that VP off, you can easily break their daze chain with it.
I like having TR's on my side during dungeons and questing, but during PVP it's too much.
First you named off a few issues with the class in explaining how OP it is. If one class gets a stun, all get a stun. If one class gets a CC breaker, all should get a CC breaker. If one class can go invisible, all should have a detect ability. The PVP should be set up in a 'rock, paper, scissors' style way to where there is no UNSTOPPABLE combination, but a mixture of proper planning and hitting the right encounter to get out of it.
Why was PVP so successful in WoW?
Because their Warrior/Tanks actually took damage and dealt damage and wouldn't be so easy to kill like the GWF's in NW.
The Rogues could be spotted with a ground AOE that breaks their invisibility or a strike in the area of where they were.
Granted a Rogue could stun lock your *** for days if they were good and caught you off guard, but it wasn't as bad as NW TR's are.
I just started a CW and of my actual CC's that can't be avoided- Strangle is one that TR's can pop an encounter to get out of. I'm cool with that but then they build up stealth and go invisible and then stun lock you and stack their attacks while you have nothing to do. Want to get them away? You have 2 moves that can force them back, but they have to be timed right because a TR has so many dodges that they will gain the 15' push back in less than 1 second with their 30' leap ability.
I am sure you can nerf them without rendering them useless, but I don't know enough ABOUT the TR to say specifically what should be altered. I believe there should be less of their evasiveness because as it stands now- only a moron TR can be killed. Nearly every TR can go 9-0, 10-0, 15-2, 9-2, 16-1. Add a DC on their team and it's game over.
As for the original poster about CW's being OP? Avoid my icy terrain (just don't walk on it, moron), if I stack frost on you then my daily will hurt- alot. My at-will slows you down, my encounters slow you down and I have one CC that will pick you up and render you useless unless you can break out of it- even so this move only lasts 2 seconds anyways.
So it seems to me that you're mad the CW is an average class? Because in all my PVP I've only seen a few bad *** CW's and most top scorers are TR's. The rest seem to mix and take turns as I feel their all average (except GF- too much defense and no attack power, poor guys)
I like having TR's on my side during dungeons and questing, but during PVP it's too much.
First you named off a few issues with the class in explaining how OP it is. If one class gets a stun, all get a stun. If one class gets a CC breaker, all should get a CC breaker. If one class can go invisible, all should have a detect ability. The PVP should be set up in a 'rock, paper, scissors' style way to where there is no UNSTOPPABLE combination, but a mixture of proper planning and hitting the right encounter to get out of it.
I'm sorry this is where I stopped reading your post.
If every class could do everything then there would only be one class, and that is not a game that I want to be a part of.
There are counters to every class in this game. Some class's and particular builds fair better against other class's of particular builds and that's why premade teams are constantly switching up comps to deal with this fact. No one thinks its unfair, they just adapt.
TR's that stack all damage, are incredibly squishy. TR's that build for Longer stealth duration/regen or tanky builds, sacrifice damage.
Every class is a double edged sword, you sacrifice one for the other.
If you have your guy geared up and spec'd right, a CW can take someone out quickly- but get them stunned and their done.
He is and I am, to a certain degree. It's just his notion of being a cc-chaining monster is so far from the truth, I rarely if ever cc chain something other than a gwf/gf. My burst dps is on point tho, not TR point but pretty close.
Again. We all know how dumb the SoD glitch is. The Devs know about it, the community knows about it, lets stop basing an entire class, because of one bugged mechanic.
I'd argue that the immense dodge frames of the TR are a bugged mechanic, and the ability to go invisble while I'm hitting you (or better yet while you're taking damage from my DoT) is plain silly.
To the original topic. I'd agree (even as a slow-casting, SW) with others here that the CWs job is to control. That's what they do and I see no need for nerfing.
I'm sorry this is where I stopped reading your post.
If every class could do everything then there would only be one class, and that is not a game that I want to be a part of.
There are counters to every class in this game. Some class's and particular builds fair better against other class's of particular builds and that's why premade teams are constantly switching up comps to deal with this fact. No one thinks its unfair, they just adapt.
TR's that stack all damage, are incredibly squishy. TR's that build for Longer stealth duration/regen or tanky builds, sacrifice damage.
Every class is a double edged sword, you sacrifice one for the other.
You obviously just want to keep using your TR because of the advantages.
Not a single thing I said is saying "Oh TR's go invis, lets all do it!" I said give a detect or AOE ability that removes their invisibility. You want to break my CC, fine. Go invisible? Okay. You CAN do that, literally and as frequent as you'd like.
But every class should have a COUNTER to eachother. If a TR gets a counter to stuns, why does no one else get a counter to stun or detect invisibility?
Your logic is simply personal preference because it benefits you.
As for the post of a CW being 'Over Powered' some CW's that are built exceptionally well and geared are monsters, but that's not to say they aren't able to be killed and with some skill. The same way a GWF spams their encounters on a TR they spam their encounters at the wrong time on a CW, from my experience.
I'd argue that the immense dodge frames of the TR are a bugged mechanic, and the ability to go invisble while I'm hitting you (or better yet while you're taking damage from my DoT) is plain silly.
To the original topic. I'd agree (even as a slow-casting, SW) with others here that the CWs job is to control. That's what they do and I see no need for nerfing.
I agree, it is a cheap and unfair advantage to remain invisible while taking damage or to avoid damage entirely when clearly they are being hit because their 'dodging' the attacks quicker than the cast can be made.
Comments
Shut up, Meg.
Hmm...while looking over your 8 pages of posts, I realize we certainly have nothing to talk about. You complain about literally every single class in this game, in one or more of your posts.
Listen Steven... Put that remote down...its not going to help you in the PvPz https://youtu.be/SOejnOx1gh4
This thread made my heart happy.
BTW, HAI ALYISIN!!!
Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard
twitch.tv/Divine1982
I do agree however that TRs are a bit too OP. Its ridiculous how you can be sitting at a point and all of a sudden *knife strike*, and then in an instant you are dead without having had any time to react. However, TRs in general are even squishier than HRs. If you get the jump on them first, there's really nothing they can do. And other than the backstab ability, they dont have any other power to fear. If the mods nerfed their backstab ability, they would probably be entirely useless because they only have one good move to begin with....
There is always time to react to any encounter, its just how much you are paying attention.
I recommend using head phones when playing and listening to the game sound. Every encounter from every class in this game has a sound. Hear the sound>dodge>win. The only time I seem to get hit with a lashing is when I'm not paying attention in a large fight, even then Lashing is generally pitiful damage because of my deflect.
I wish they would nerf Lashing. In fact, they could completely get rid of it for all I care. Its useless in PvP high end premades and I personally feel its a waste to use in PvE. Its good at making new undergeared players cry, that is all
Just yesterday there was a full premade of five wizards that took turns chain choking me on two, whilst my teammates roasted marshmallows in the spawn. I feel utterly violated.....
Relentless -LVL 60 GWF-
<DENIAL>
Wait till mod 6....
Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard
twitch.tv/Divine1982
5 trs vs 5 cws... who wins?
Assuming same skilled players/gear
< Goon Squad >
In domo? Five Rogues
3 Rogues running perma stealth high con/regen ala Skill in our guild.
2 running perma daze (or WK SOD) for point rotation.
We've already had a ton of success with 4 rogue + 1 or 5 rogues lol.
(Iron Lotus)
Dragon Born Rouge GS 17.6k in Profound
Not to be confused with Rogue, I truly am the red makeup women put on their cheeks.
Oh I know....it's gonna be a QQ fest :P
Relentless -LVL 60 GWF-
<DENIAL>
I'm assuming that WK SOD means Whisperknife Shadow of Demise? I specced this path as an ignorant newb to the game. Been toying with a re-roll, but putting it off since she actually performs pretty well. Still, everything I've read seems to indicate that this is a poor set-up. So I am VERY curious about you saying that there is actually a desirable role for this build in pre-made.
Any chance you could elaborate a bit on the topic?
Yeah, Whisper Knife SOD. Sly Flourish/Disheartening Strike. Dazing Strike/Vengeance Pursuit/shadow strike (can throw Impact shot in there sometimes too).
Basically you build for a moderate amount of health, (I'm at 32K) 48 percent deflection, 800 Tenacity, 5.5k power, 2,900 arp, 38 chance to crit, 1600+ regen, 1100+ Lifesteal.
A fairly damage heavy but balanced array of stats at 60 (17.6K GS)
Always start the fight stealth and open with a DHStrike on everyone on the node (stacking all that crazy dot damage and the life steal + sod tick which is in turn even more health)
ie group fight
Once everyone is dotted find either the CW or the HR and throw your veng pursuit at them. They will nine times out of ten spot you and open with a cc, as soon as they cc you follow up with your second part of VP to get out of their CC and tele to them with an interupt on contact (from the exe feat). That interupt will allow you to perfectly follow up with a dazing strike, while they're dazed hit them with a shadow strike immediately followed by a full stealth combo sly flourish (pref with the artifact weapon) and the incoming SOD from that. Meanwhile they're ticking for 2k a pop from DH.
If you get low health just use your decent base regen and dot people for the life steal while in stealth. It actually works really well. You do miss ITC but VP makes up for a lot of that. It's a good build for point rotation or quickly taking out targets/really stressing out a dc on a point. Almost all of our rogues who aren't permastealth/sc run a build like this.
Sorry for the poor grammar I'm at work and trying to do this quickly.
Right now, with a legendary Sly Flourish Artifact and my Power where it is, it's very hard to survive a full stealth sly flour combo. I've seen single swings hit for 13k.
With 4 piece profound and first strike, you can almost kill someone with a single DH strike from stealth over time lol. I don't normally run First Strike because Advantageous Position works so well with the combo I posted above, and I can't live without Tenacious Concealment.
FYI You will lose to Skullcrackers 1v1 unless they suck or you get some jumps. You can stalemate those fights on a point, but it's not an easy fight to win against a good rogue. All you have to do is catch them once tho, and remember, if you get that VP off, you can easily break their daze chain with it.
(Iron Lotus)
Dragon Born Rouge GS 17.6k in Profound
Not to be confused with Rogue, I truly am the red makeup women put on their cheeks.
In my opinion you can make a build of any of the three Tiers viable. It all depends on player skill and gear, and play style.
All of them have there pro's and con's.
WK/Exec is certainly not a common build and I can attest to it being one of the more difficult roles to play, but there are TR's using it that are very very good.
LMFAO, CW is how PC pvp died. Funniest thing I've seen on the forums in weeks.
TR is what killed PVP on PC.
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Lazy,
Thanks for the detailed answer! Very much appreciated.
You've given me a lot to think about.
Our openings are identical (stealth, spread the DiS love, VP mark the high threat target).
Key difference with what I am doing right now, is that I actually slot Cos instead of Flourish. I use range to try and bait people away from my mark.
My rotation is VP into dazing into smokebomb. That leaves the mark slowed, dazed and staggering through the middle of a poisonous cloud. They're hopefully locked out while I'm throwing CA powered daggers to the face thanks to A. Position.
But against well geared, high HP targets, CoS is more of a nuissance than a real threat. I might experiment with SS and Flourish, although it will be tough to wean off of the CoS habit.
Again, really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Thanks!
If you like using CoS, you should check out a WK/Sab build. The damage from Shadow Opportunity/CoS with DS is disgusting. Like, you will be shocked how much damage comes from just CoS with that feat. Shadow Strike/VP/(dazing/deft/SB). Lurkers Assault for a daily and you'll kill just about anyone in a few seconds with just CoS.
Its more meant for MI Paragon, running ITC/SS/Dazing but it can work well with WK as well.
Yeah, I've been theory-crafting a WK Sab for a while now. It is my choice spec for if/when I re-roll. I chose Exe initially because it seemed like the easiest path to learn the game with. I chose WK because I usually love blink/teleport abilities.
I've been delaying a re-roll because A) my little TR actually still performs quite well, so I don't exactly feel pressured to change things up (or maybe I'm just being lazy), and
But with re-rolls only costing $5 a pop, I'm sure I'll be giving it a go pretty soon.
Couple of questions on the build for ya:
Thanks Munk!
about ice Terrain, its easy, only avoid and dont walk on this o.O
I like having TR's on my side during dungeons and questing, but during PVP it's too much.
First you named off a few issues with the class in explaining how OP it is. If one class gets a stun, all get a stun. If one class gets a CC breaker, all should get a CC breaker. If one class can go invisible, all should have a detect ability. The PVP should be set up in a 'rock, paper, scissors' style way to where there is no UNSTOPPABLE combination, but a mixture of proper planning and hitting the right encounter to get out of it.
Why was PVP so successful in WoW?
Because their Warrior/Tanks actually took damage and dealt damage and wouldn't be so easy to kill like the GWF's in NW.
The Rogues could be spotted with a ground AOE that breaks their invisibility or a strike in the area of where they were.
Granted a Rogue could stun lock your *** for days if they were good and caught you off guard, but it wasn't as bad as NW TR's are.
I just started a CW and of my actual CC's that can't be avoided- Strangle is one that TR's can pop an encounter to get out of. I'm cool with that but then they build up stealth and go invisible and then stun lock you and stack their attacks while you have nothing to do. Want to get them away? You have 2 moves that can force them back, but they have to be timed right because a TR has so many dodges that they will gain the 15' push back in less than 1 second with their 30' leap ability.
I am sure you can nerf them without rendering them useless, but I don't know enough ABOUT the TR to say specifically what should be altered. I believe there should be less of their evasiveness because as it stands now- only a moron TR can be killed. Nearly every TR can go 9-0, 10-0, 15-2, 9-2, 16-1. Add a DC on their team and it's game over.
As for the original poster about CW's being OP? Avoid my icy terrain (just don't walk on it, moron), if I stack frost on you then my daily will hurt- alot. My at-will slows you down, my encounters slow you down and I have one CC that will pick you up and render you useless unless you can break out of it- even so this move only lasts 2 seconds anyways.
So it seems to me that you're mad the CW is an average class? Because in all my PVP I've only seen a few bad *** CW's and most top scorers are TR's. The rest seem to mix and take turns as I feel their all average (except GF- too much defense and no attack power, poor guys)
If you have your guy geared up and spec'd right, a CW can take someone out quickly- but get them stunned and their done.
I'm sorry this is where I stopped reading your post.
If every class could do everything then there would only be one class, and that is not a game that I want to be a part of.
There are counters to every class in this game. Some class's and particular builds fair better against other class's of particular builds and that's why premade teams are constantly switching up comps to deal with this fact. No one thinks its unfair, they just adapt.
TR's that stack all damage, are incredibly squishy. TR's that build for Longer stealth duration/regen or tanky builds, sacrifice damage.
Every class is a double edged sword, you sacrifice one for the other.
I'd argue that the immense dodge frames of the TR are a bugged mechanic, and the ability to go invisble while I'm hitting you (or better yet while you're taking damage from my DoT) is plain silly.
To the original topic. I'd agree (even as a slow-casting, SW) with others here that the CWs job is to control. That's what they do and I see no need for nerfing.
You obviously just want to keep using your TR because of the advantages.
Not a single thing I said is saying "Oh TR's go invis, lets all do it!" I said give a detect or AOE ability that removes their invisibility. You want to break my CC, fine. Go invisible? Okay. You CAN do that, literally and as frequent as you'd like.
But every class should have a COUNTER to eachother. If a TR gets a counter to stuns, why does no one else get a counter to stun or detect invisibility?
Your logic is simply personal preference because it benefits you.
As for the post of a CW being 'Over Powered' some CW's that are built exceptionally well and geared are monsters, but that's not to say they aren't able to be killed and with some skill. The same way a GWF spams their encounters on a TR they spam their encounters at the wrong time on a CW, from my experience.
I agree, it is a cheap and unfair advantage to remain invisible while taking damage or to avoid damage entirely when clearly they are being hit because their 'dodging' the attacks quicker than the cast can be made.