I think if people try hard enough and have the skills, then it can be done without needing to spend hundreds of $$$. Challenging contents are made to be challenging. They will at first seem impossible, especially people with bad gear and bad party. I remember when they've made so many changes to CN back in the days, all the parties would wipe so many times at the start trying out different things, then eventually could manage to finish it, but the party can still fail with 1 or 2 bad players ruining it by making too many mistakes.
There is such a small difference between the T1 and T2 gear, just because you can only obtain T2 gear from T2 dungeons, I don't see them as the deciding factors. But if someone is running a lesser bilethorn, and a lesser barkshield, then yeah, he'll probably never be able to finish a T2 dungeon. So gear does make a difference, but I don't think BiS is required, as better gear just allows you to kill things faster and a bit more room to make mistakes. But unlike Tiamat, these dungeons have no time limit. So without the BiS gear, it is only harder since it's a longer fight, leading to more chances for people to make mistakes.
People should view these threads as incentive to try harder to clear these dungeons if they haven't already done so, and the videos are a great way to give people some ideas on what to do.
Excellent advice and a shot of reality! Refreshing instead of all the "I surrender" comments . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I think there is a big misconception about what all the complaints are about. Of course they can be done by folks with 3K or higher iLvL. Rather easily. But most folks (and more importantly the fresh blood that needs to be attracted to keep playing this game) do not have that kind of gear.
These dungeons have a 2000 iLvl requirement and so they should be balanced around that fact. While I won't say it's impossible to do them if everyone in the group is iLvL 2000, I will say it's extremely unlikely.
Every game has nightmare/hard/raid content to keep people entertained or give them something to do. Give it a rest. I don't care if new players can't do eCC or ToS right off the bat, and neither should you. There's plenty of content to enjoy or farm before trying to tackle that kind of challenge.
Yea, all attainable with lots of $$$. This pretty much says if you not willing to drop a few hundred or thousands of dollars, don't even think about T2. Only for the whales. Sure you can grind. But even if you spent every waking hour grinding, by the time you attain said gear, the next mod already made it obsolete.
Exactly this* And that is why wallet warriors spend money on this game. So they can brag about how skilled a player they are, then post videos about it as some form of proof to the masses that it's easy OR "doable", like a benevolent God. Oh thank you Lord. I believe....I believe.
Yup, its as if we bought what we thought was a home (with our attention, time and for many, money) but instead it was a hotel room, and mod 6 was checkout day.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited May 2015
GJ guys, I intend to do it as well at some stage, but until then....Jealous Sharp is Jealous
Exactly this* And that is why wallet warriors spend money on this game. So they can brag about how skilled a player they are, then post videos about it as some form of proof to the masses that it's easy OR "doable", like a benevolent God. Oh thank you Lord. I believe....I believe.
There was another thread about dungeons being run effectively by someone else whose guild worked hard to find new strategies. You don't need to spend hundreds or have BiS to do it.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited May 2015
This is the same as someone saying they beat Ninja Gaiden 1. Some can, others CAN'T.
tbh the dungeons are not any more difficult than some Hardcore version of a popular mmo i played in the past, more freestyle groups perform, you do not even have to communicate all through the fight
good job with good gear, well done.
but I honestly think its not that kind of difficulty we all claim since start of mod 6, its more that most of us don´t invest the time, the money and ambitions in running these dungeons
to come to the point running these dungeons like this its lots of work and a good team + gear
I myself will not and can´t invest that ammount of time to get that gear, and its hard for me to find a group to have success with lower gear, since all your read in chat is : lfg OP/DC/Tank, CW etc 3k+ experienced
the community is too big to get recognized or get access when posting in chat, noone realy remembers you doing a good job by pugging
There was another thread about dungeons being run effectively by someone else whose guild worked hard to find new strategies. You don't need to spend hundreds or have BiS to do it.
Nice lie fanboy. There is no loot, there is no reward. Even the key has to be bought.
You can beat the dungeons without BiS, but no matter how you do it, you lose money.
Greetings Neverwinter players,
some of the "hardcore" PvEers have beaten the Tier 2 dungeons, and that already shortly after module 6 release.
However many people still claim Tier 2s to be unbeatable therefore I thought I should record it and make it aviable.
There will obviously be people who says what we did is not legit. Example: Weaponmaster + Offhand bonus grants you 16% Critical Chance while tooltips say it should be 15% combined.
Obviously some feats and powers are overperforming, working as intended or not. Some things are pretty overpowered like the Lostmauth set or the Hidden Daggers buffing melee damage for 40%, but theres no mentioning that these are actual bugs on side of the devs.
This thread is not intended to discuss these things or how and if people with way lower gear can clear these dungeons.
I personally am sure that a proper build, a good group composition and decent gameplay can make up for Mythics and Legendaries, maybe not epics.
Without further talk here are the videos, the quality is horrible and I play without sound. If able I will record dungeon runs to HDD in the future and upload them to Youtube.
Thanks for reading/watching.
If you like this or would like to see more runs recorded leave a comment.
If you have any questions same.
Blackyluke
Edit: As expected most people comment on how or if this is possible with much less geared people and if this is legit or not. This is not the topic of this thread. People in the run and other people have asked me to upload videos of Tier 2s, it's nothing more than that. I don't brag here, if at all my performance over these runs was very bad. In the ECC bossfight I missed a lot of At-Wills and Encounters and I failed to communicate with my HR to unslot Fox Shift. This was necessary as seen in the ToS bossfight at times GWFs Unstoppable (tab mechanic) can bug out and as long as you have temporary HP you won't be able to activate it. Therefore I need need to take damage every now and then which is not possible when an HR spams Fox Shift. In GWD I used my Crescendo on the boss once while he was immune.
Since there is so much negative feedback I will refrain from making posts here and if at all upload to a Youtube account. I leave this thread open in case somebody actually has questions or constructive feedback, if it goes on about off-topic I will probably get it closed/deleted. Thanks for reading/watching anyway.
Edit 2: Thanks for the kind comments on the later pages and less QQ more reasoning. Personally just wanna add that a lot of people I run dungeons with and I personally are not even challenged by the Tier2s. This is not anything I wanna brag about, I just say that if you run with good party compositions and have good gear and a good build, you can clear dungeons with ease. Sure for the average player I think it's too challenging. Gear makes you able to overcome misplay or mistakes (including your build).
A good player will beat T2s im sure. I understand these videos might not be very helpful for the start, but I'm not really the "content creator" kinda guy even tho I pick up new players and strangers and try to teach them 1-2 things about the game etc.
Personally hoping for a way of difficulty scaling. Like in D3 so some people with gear can do their things on normal and others can enjoy the challenge on torment levels.
I'd be very impressed if you did a video of you guys doing 3 consecutive runs on Malabog's Castle. Oh actually I'm so confident.....just show me one run on MC please. Show us how the game is not broken and the end game content is totally doable. Whats that? MC doesn't work but is in the queue list anyway? Well ****....
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited May 2015
I finally got in my legit Ecc, so no need to be jealous anymore
Fresh 2k have no chance to do it. They will have max, r7 and mix of a pvp / alliance gear from T1 with lesser enchants in armor and weapon + green or blue MH/OH and 1-2 green/blue Artifacts.
^ This is what gear will have fresh 2k toon. (this will actually be slighty above 2k, but doesnt matter). You have no chance finishing T2 with such gear unless you run some chesse comp of 3 Paladins + DC and 1 dps, where you can just chain Divine Protector one after another and beat it after few hours of derping.
You need to keep in mind that the longer the fight last the higher chance people make mistakes and die. The LM set (or any other) + enchants above lesser lvl give pretty big advantage, not to mention all the armor kits and r10+ enchants or mythic artifacts.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Fresh 2k have no chance to do it. They will have max, r7 and mix of a pvp / alliance gear from T1 with lesser enchants in armor and weapon + green or blue MH/OH and 1-2 green/blue Artifacts.
^ This is what gear will have fresh 2k toon. (this will actually be slighty above 2k, but doesnt matter). You have no chance finishing T2 with such gear unless you run some chesse comp of 3 Paladins + DC and 1 dps, where you can just chain Divine Protector one after another and beat it after few hours of derping.
You need to keep in mind that the longer the fight last the higher chance people make mistakes and die. The LM set (or any other) + enchants above lesser lvl give pretty big advantage, not to mention all the armor kits and r10+ enchants or mythic artifacts.
fresh 2k party completed the temple of the spider we had our old weapons and the blue t1 armor and some artifacts.MY gf even play on 55 level blue pants.Ofcourse we made some wipes but is logic when you have to get used to the new difficulty.
fresh 2k party completed the temple of the spider we had our old weapons and the blue t1 armor and some artifacts.MY gf even play on 55 level blue pants.Ofcourse we made some wipes but is logic when you have to get used to the new difficulty.
Yeah video or it didnt happen. Where you got the dps from and how long did it take? must have been at least 7-9min fight.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited May 2015
There is almost no difference between t2 and t1 gear, in case you didn't realise. Yesterday, with a 2-3k party I did 4 man etos, those dungeons are very viable.
I've beat eCC legit. That being said, I have a full Lathandar's set and a teal DC Sigil and full Rank 9s.
The original OP (congrats to the win) beat it with a full teal Lost set. All other artifacts teal and orange main/OH. That's either years playing to set up a farm or it's a cash infusion. Neither is wrong, but it does point out the truth that a large part of post-70 content is simply not available to characters rolled in Mod 5-6.
And that's where the game is running into problems.
I remember what it was like to face ToS etc in beta as a fresh-faced 60. They could be beaten, even painfully, by people with good builds and a good sense of team play.
While our new epic, end-game content is based on gear. Part of that is the child of the refinement system. It doesn't matter if you have the protector's seal gear or not. What matters is your artifacts, your weapon's refinement level, and your enchantment levels. Someone with no enchants, no artifacts in full protector seal gear is just a scrub v. someone in trash Mod 6 blues with Rank 9+ and teal artifacts.
People should have fun in this game. People should have challenging content with some real apex of boss fights to aspire to (CN in beta). This system doesn't work like that at all. But the Devs failures shouldn't set us at each other's throats.
Oh, look dungeon runs with the typical composition with pretty good gear.
God forbid anyone needs to run those dungeons for the gear.
I think you are having a math failure here. The differential between alliance and elven gear is about 1k HP and less than 200 stat points. If you've been hit by a T2 mob you will know that 1k HP is nothing. And if you have looked at the stat curves you will see that it is an aggregate gain of less than 1/2 a percent in abilities. Essentially the only reason you 'need' elven gear is because it has a better stat allocation than alliance gear. The equipment derives from protector seals is in no way the gear check for completing T2s. Composition does matter and you want a good composition. But the composition is not writ in stone. At this point I enjoy running ToS with something other than an ideal composition more because it is pretty routine with a standard composition.
I think you are having a math failure here. The differential between alliance and elven gear is about 1k HP and less than 200 stat points. If you've been hit by a T2 mob you will know that 1k HP is nothing. And if you have looked at the stat curves you will see that it is an aggregate gain of less than 1/2 a percent in abilities. Essentially the only reason you 'need' elven gear is because it has a better stat allocation than alliance gear. The equipment derives from protector seals is in no way the gear check for completing T2s. Composition does matter and you want a good composition. But the composition is not writ in stone. At this point I enjoy running ToS with something other than an ideal composition more because it is pretty routine with a standard composition.
I think you have a problem with understanding how this game works, honestly.
The Blue Set has pretty crappy stats for nearly every class. Your options are either the epic set from T2's (because no one has time for that Black Ice ****) or PvP gear. If you really want to wade through the landslide games, immortal DC/OPs, and bug abusers, go ahead.
However, it's not only faster but more efficient to just clear T2's for the equips.
Show me a pug in Blue Sets with Epic Artifacts and R7s clearing this without the typical composition. Then I'll be impressed.
Until then, it's always the same bull**** of the same party comps beating the same dungeons with the same generic equipment.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
No I really think the comprehension issues are on your side. By definition everyone, the first time they cleared a T2, did so in alliance gear (or perhaps burning which has it's own stat dispersal issues). The stat differentialls really are not that large. Load the game, hit CTR-J and use the calculator function on your computer. Remembering that 400 points is 1% in 1 stat. You are also incorrect about composition. My last T2 run the comp was: My HR, a somewhat under-geared GWF, 2 Paladins (heal and tank) and a TR. I've yet to see anyone call that an ideal composition. Ok we wiped a couple of times. After the wipe we talked about what went wrong, changed things, and tried again.<<<<THAT is more critical to successs than anything else you can bring. And the rarest skill in the game. And the one thing that made Mod6 turn PVE interesting again. Third pass we beat it. I cannot say for R7s as I have not used them in anything but alts since Mod4. My artis are epic (legendary MH from last 2x RP, Mod5 legendary belt because +4 stats).
You are really not listening here. Simple logic IF-elven gear only comes from T2s THEN- everyone who has elven got it from clearing a T2. Therefore everyone who has elven got elven from clearing T2s without elven. Now I do not really play the classes you play. So I cannot say definitively for those classes. I do however play with people who play them and they did manage to clear and earn gear. QED. I have a thread up in The Wilds because I am seriously considering not upgrading a couple of pieces because the elven may not be BiS.
Are most clears going to be pre-made? Sure. Pugging is something you do for keks when you are bored. It was possible to clear content in pugs all week in the last few mods. It was also possible to clear them half-drunk watching a movie. This, to me, means the game is getting better. At this point ToS is the only thing I really PuG becuse it is the easiest T2 dungeon. I have no burning gear at all. Every piece I have I got by clearing dungeons. It's doable. Try joining /legit and getting some people to run the content with you if you don't have guildies or a friend's list to build parties from. And yeah. Nobody is going to show you a video of a PuG run because going to the trouble of making a video is a lot more work than hitting up your friends list and seeing if anyone wants to make a video.
The problem isn't just in T2 dungeons; it's only that T2 dungeons are the most visible and glaring symptom. Last night I re-ran through my Foundry, mainly to see if mod 6 broke anything (the new "social aggro" is going to be problematic for Foundry authors, but I digress). What I had deemed to be "hard" difficulty in mod 5 is now "nightmare" difficulty in mod 6. No joke. I ran it with my HR main, who has a 4191 IL and the gods' own defense of just a hair below 18.7k. It was B-R-U-T-A-L on the "hard" setting.
From mod 5 to mod 6, they went from one extreme to the other. They need to dial it back at least somewhat, even if it means swallowing some pride.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Ya. Being one-shotted by a sniper or huntsman is pretty bizarre. It is like every enemy is a Mod 5 BOSS.
This is why (as a paladin) I harangue my teammates to focus ranged (archers, etc.) first. 1 volley of arrows = dunked.
Anyway, this thread is about it being possible to clear all dungeons. It is possible with the right gear and the right team and enough persistence. If people are undergeared and refuse to work as a team, clearing the dungeon in a timely manner or at all is far less likely. I am not geared very well (2.1k) and I have cleared with pubs and premades. It can be done it's just hard - end of story.
It's great when crusade-era mods go through and ninja half the discussion but don't bother cleaning everything up.
If only the ********** stalking every post I made had the balls to announce it, or do their full job.
Even CCP Forum Mods are better than this.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
It's great when crusade-era mods go through and ninja half the discussion but don't bother cleaning everything up.
If only the ********** stalking every post I made had the balls to announce it, or do their full job.
Even CCP Forum Mods are better than this.
Here here. I was disagreeing with you. But I think the discussion should be allowed to exist.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
Comments
Excellent advice and a shot of reality! Refreshing instead of all the "I surrender" comments . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Every game has nightmare/hard/raid content to keep people entertained or give them something to do. Give it a rest. I don't care if new players can't do eCC or ToS right off the bat, and neither should you. There's plenty of content to enjoy or farm before trying to tackle that kind of challenge.
Exactly this* And that is why wallet warriors spend money on this game. So they can brag about how skilled a player they are, then post videos about it as some form of proof to the masses that it's easy OR "doable", like a benevolent God. Oh thank you Lord. I believe....I believe.
There was another thread about dungeons being run effectively by someone else whose guild worked hard to find new strategies. You don't need to spend hundreds or have BiS to do it.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
good job with good gear, well done.
but I honestly think its not that kind of difficulty we all claim since start of mod 6, its more that most of us don´t invest the time, the money and ambitions in running these dungeons
to come to the point running these dungeons like this its lots of work and a good team + gear
I myself will not and can´t invest that ammount of time to get that gear, and its hard for me to find a group to have success with lower gear, since all your read in chat is : lfg OP/DC/Tank, CW etc 3k+ experienced
the community is too big to get recognized or get access when posting in chat, noone realy remembers you doing a good job by pugging
Nice lie fanboy. There is no loot, there is no reward. Even the key has to be bought.
You can beat the dungeons without BiS, but no matter how you do it, you lose money.
Heroes of Darkness
Retired since 02/15
My opinions are my own. Please do not judge my friends nor guild for my statements.
http://postimg.org/image/nyahr568v/ one mistake or unlucky can fail;p look what happened.
^ This is what gear will have fresh 2k toon. (this will actually be slighty above 2k, but doesnt matter). You have no chance finishing T2 with such gear unless you run some chesse comp of 3 Paladins + DC and 1 dps, where you can just chain Divine Protector one after another and beat it after few hours of derping.
You need to keep in mind that the longer the fight last the higher chance people make mistakes and die. The LM set (or any other) + enchants above lesser lvl give pretty big advantage, not to mention all the armor kits and r10+ enchants or mythic artifacts.
fresh 2k party completed the temple of the spider we had our old weapons and the blue t1 armor and some artifacts.MY gf even play on 55 level blue pants.Ofcourse we made some wipes but is logic when you have to get used to the new difficulty.
Yeah video or it didnt happen. Where you got the dps from and how long did it take? must have been at least 7-9min fight.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2o0b4c
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2o0b5s
the one cw even have 8k power we was max with 10k power that was me and sw.
The original OP (congrats to the win) beat it with a full teal Lost set. All other artifacts teal and orange main/OH. That's either years playing to set up a farm or it's a cash infusion. Neither is wrong, but it does point out the truth that a large part of post-70 content is simply not available to characters rolled in Mod 5-6.
And that's where the game is running into problems.
I remember what it was like to face ToS etc in beta as a fresh-faced 60. They could be beaten, even painfully, by people with good builds and a good sense of team play.
While our new epic, end-game content is based on gear. Part of that is the child of the refinement system. It doesn't matter if you have the protector's seal gear or not. What matters is your artifacts, your weapon's refinement level, and your enchantment levels. Someone with no enchants, no artifacts in full protector seal gear is just a scrub v. someone in trash Mod 6 blues with Rank 9+ and teal artifacts.
People should have fun in this game. People should have challenging content with some real apex of boss fights to aspire to (CN in beta). This system doesn't work like that at all. But the Devs failures shouldn't set us at each other's throats.
God forbid anyone needs to run those dungeons for the gear.
I really think we're all missing the point of the complaining here.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
I think you are having a math failure here. The differential between alliance and elven gear is about 1k HP and less than 200 stat points. If you've been hit by a T2 mob you will know that 1k HP is nothing. And if you have looked at the stat curves you will see that it is an aggregate gain of less than 1/2 a percent in abilities. Essentially the only reason you 'need' elven gear is because it has a better stat allocation than alliance gear. The equipment derives from protector seals is in no way the gear check for completing T2s. Composition does matter and you want a good composition. But the composition is not writ in stone. At this point I enjoy running ToS with something other than an ideal composition more because it is pretty routine with a standard composition.
I think you have a problem with understanding how this game works, honestly.
The Blue Set has pretty crappy stats for nearly every class. Your options are either the epic set from T2's (because no one has time for that Black Ice ****) or PvP gear. If you really want to wade through the landslide games, immortal DC/OPs, and bug abusers, go ahead.
However, it's not only faster but more efficient to just clear T2's for the equips.
Show me a pug in Blue Sets with Epic Artifacts and R7s clearing this without the typical composition. Then I'll be impressed.
Until then, it's always the same bull**** of the same party comps beating the same dungeons with the same generic equipment.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Are most clears going to be pre-made? Sure. Pugging is something you do for keks when you are bored. It was possible to clear content in pugs all week in the last few mods. It was also possible to clear them half-drunk watching a movie. This, to me, means the game is getting better. At this point ToS is the only thing I really PuG becuse it is the easiest T2 dungeon. I have no burning gear at all. Every piece I have I got by clearing dungeons. It's doable. Try joining /legit and getting some people to run the content with you if you don't have guildies or a friend's list to build parties from. And yeah. Nobody is going to show you a video of a PuG run because going to the trouble of making a video is a lot more work than hitting up your friends list and seeing if anyone wants to make a video.
From mod 5 to mod 6, they went from one extreme to the other. They need to dial it back at least somewhat, even if it means swallowing some pride.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
This is why (as a paladin) I harangue my teammates to focus ranged (archers, etc.) first. 1 volley of arrows = dunked.
Anyway, this thread is about it being possible to clear all dungeons. It is possible with the right gear and the right team and enough persistence. If people are undergeared and refuse to work as a team, clearing the dungeon in a timely manner or at all is far less likely. I am not geared very well (2.1k) and I have cleared with pubs and premades. It can be done it's just hard - end of story.
If only the ********** stalking every post I made had the balls to announce it, or do their full job.
Even CCP Forum Mods are better than this.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Here here. I was disagreeing with you. But I think the discussion should be allowed to exist.
False, for gwf dps rage its t1.5 helmet, t1.5 bracers and t2 boots + armor.
For gf acctualy best i see t1.5 full set coz of nice combo of deflect and defense.
Not sure about other classes, but i just eliminated the 2 i know the best.
(Sin)cerely
Kain