[PvE] Faithfull or Virtuoso?

karakla1 · May 2015

I playing curently an Faithfull DC and i am curious which kind of talent tree works better for PvE as healer: Faithfull or Virtuoso?

schietindebux · May 2015

faithfull for sure

never tested virtous but would like to since it might be comfortable esp in healing teammates spread arround the map ?

rapo973 · May 2015

schietindebux wrote: »

faithfull for sure
never tested virtous but would like to since it might be comfortable esp in healing teammates spread arround the map ?

You've never tested virtuous, but you stated "faithfull for sure"...
I've tested both and concerning healing, I would say that both are good for that. The mechanic is different, so the way you play is different.
At the end I'm very comfortable with virtuous when I have to heal, but you have to think more about timing of the heal and management of divine power.
In my opinion faithful is a better healbot: so the choice to be made is not on what but on how: here each player must find his/her way .

A concrete example. Yesterday I run eToS with a GF. He was hit hard twice by some layers of red carpet and he was close to die. I was able to heal him, the first time 109K, the second 107K.
So it's not a problem of quantity, but I was luck enough because I had the encounters and 3 stacks of divine power ready. The faithfull doesn't have to think about it too much, because it's the mechanic of the path that does it automatically. From this point of view, I'm stating that the faithfull is more "healbot-oriented" for this case.
On the other hand, as a virtuous, if I cast HoT powers, the regenerative effect lasts for some seconds and I've to be ready to start another rotation at the right rime...but many times, I simply heal even if it's not necessary. Some virtuous use this approach.

So what's the best? Cannot tell, it depends on your style and preferences.

schietindebux · May 2015

You've never tested virtuous, but you stated "faithfull for sure"...
I've tested both and concerning healing, I would say that both are good for that. The mechanic is different, so the way you play is different.
At the end I'm very comfortable with virtuous when I have to heal, but you have to think more about timing of the heal and management of divine power.
In my opinion faithful is a better healbot: so the choice to be made is not on what but on how: here each player must find his/her way .

thats a contradiction in one sentence from my side, what only means: I don´t have a clue
adding that i will check it out some time
so what is your question?

kiori001 · May 2015

Looked pretty clear to me what he said. He made a statement, so your comment "so what is your question" didn't make much sense to me.
Also I am in agreement with his comment: You've never tested virtuous, but you stated "faithfull for sure"...

having only tried one, why say it is better, you could have said I tried X and found it to be very effective, however I'm not sure about the other

diogene0 · May 2015

Faithful has much more tools to clean the mess when someone does a mistake. Virtuous makes you more like a healadin, ie great when you're not needed but useless when everyone takes tons of damage constantly.

angrysprite · May 2015

Righteous: Mostly DPS-oriented (as Clerics go); very little automatic healing, somewhat good with manual clutch-heals, great DPS, very squishy, low tankiness.
Faithful: Automatic burst-healing, great for manual clutch-heals (burst-healing) decent DPS, a medium squishy, medium tankiness.
Virtuous: Automatic slow-cooker heal-over-time, manual maintenance of slow-cooker heal-over-time, low DPS, least squishy, most tankiness.

These are the three branches of the paragon trees. The OP obviously wants to be a healer: look closely and compare. It *is* easier to play Faithful than Virtuous, but Virtuous allows a lot more flexibility in play styles, whereas Faithful is more like "automatic transmission vehicle: no need for a clutch, just press accelerator and go". Virtuous is more like "Standard transmission, high-torque, massive towing power 18-wheeler truck with balz". LOL

Oh and I guess Righteous would be: "Lamborghini Countach" - as Cleric go, anyway.

rapo973 · May 2015

diogene0 wrote: »

Faithful has much more tools to clean the mess when someone does a mistake. Virtuous makes you more like a healadin, ie great when you're not needed but useless when everyone takes tons of damage constantly.

I agree with you about the healdin, but on the other hand I don't agree with you when you say: "useless when everyone takes tons of damage constantly"
When everyone takes tons of damages constantly, the virtuous heals constantly thanks to the regenerative effect over the time of the cap feat "shield of the divine". If the team is a range of 30'', the overall effect is very powerful.Healing from almost 0 hp to full heal in 1 shot is possible for the virtuous: happened to me many time.
If I need "blind" heal (healbot), then I use passive "light of the divinity".
In a rotation of BoH, HW and DG (or SB), the team is healed constantly. There's just one drawback: I've to target the heal where it's needed and that's why I've always an eye on the hp meters of the team.
For this reason I believe that the faithfull is sligtly better from this point of view but I believe that when the gift of faith is used and the team take tons of damages constantly, both faith & virt face more or less the same problems.

schietindebux · May 2015

Looked pretty clear to me what he said. He made a statement, so your comment "so what is your question" didn't make much sense to me.
Also I am in agreement with his comment: You've never tested virtuous, but you stated "faithfull for sure"...

having only tried one, why say it is better, you could have said I tried X and found it to be very effective, however I'm not sure about the other

omg get the stick out of your... you just don´t understand the meaning of this message, thats all
as i wrote its a oneside, subjective unsolid comment i made by purpose
btw whats better black or white?

rapo973 · May 2015

schietindebux wrote: »

btw whats better black or white?

White for sure,
never tested black

karakla1 · May 2015

Thanks for your Opinions

xmlx11x44 · May 2015

Lmao at all the scrubs all over Faithful.

Faithful is good for healcarrying undergeared, dumb pugs and that is about it.
Virtuous requires great timing and skill in order to heal efficiently - no doubt most of the faithful healbots lack this skill, hence the rabid obsession over a skilless autohealbot tree.

fluppery · June 2015

schietindebux wrote: »

omg get the stick out of your... you just don´t understand the meaning of this message, thats all
as i wrote its a oneside, subjective unsolid comment i made by purpose
btw whats better black or white?

Can you please improve your use of English. How do you expect anyone to understand you when you type broken English.

As you once said to me when I posted my DC Debuffing Powers, "Why do you even write things like this?"

schietindebux · June 2015

Can you please improve your use of English. How do you expect anyone to understand you when you type broken English.
As you once said to me when I posted my "DC Debuffing Powers", why do you even write things like this?

back again? yes why do you write things like this?
sry for my english but I am sure its sufficient
posting a question is good, starting a thread with misinformations is bad
only to give u a summary of the things u posted
you don´t have to wonder if ppl reply this way in case you write misinformation and wrong stuff in so many cases

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?942121-DC-Guide&p=11070191#post11070191
the therad is about a PVP build and divinity gain, referring to a DC using profound set in PVP? Maybe I misunderstood everything, but profound gear is mod 5 and there is nothing to win in mod 6 by wearing it, or am I wrong?

ENCOUNTER DIVINE GLOW (power points: IV)
Debuff Without divinity does not stack unless you have some Empowerment. With divinity it stacks. This is why you will see me cast divine glow with divinity 3x in a row and then a 4th time without divinity. The 4th non-divine cast consumes 3 empowerment. The result is 37.5% reduction of damage to enemies and can last as long as about 25 seconds and 25' radius if you do it right. It also increases allies damage by 37.5%

the whole thread can be found here
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?942251-DC-Debuffing-powers&p=11074031#post11074031

clericalist · June 2015

I have tried all 3 paths in mod 6, and if you want a short answer what the best healer is then its faithful. As others have already mentioned here however, virtuous can also make you a very strong healer, it does however have the one drawback that you cannot provide the big instant clutch heal which requires less reactive play and more preemptive healing, the AP gain it provides for the party does make up for that problem in my opinion.

You ask what the best healing path is, and it can obviously not be the righteous path, but you need to ask yourself if you only want to be a healer, because it makes things like soloing really painful. You can be an adequate healer being righteous for most parties, if you have high power and crit stats then you can get the benefits of dishing out much more dps than the other two paths and being a healer when needed.

silverkelt · June 2015

I dropped out of righteous early in testing. I could tell healing was going to be needed, at least probably for most of mod 6, righteouss will come back into play again if they continue to progress us with no increase of mob difficulty (but who knows what they are planning really, I think the stat recurve was a lazy type of mechanic.. I mean I had lvl 80-100 characters in many other games. that had like 8-15k hps.. its insane the way they did the rework, instead of a general rescaling from 1-70, they went lazy and did one from 60-70.. but whatever, its what we have atm.

In terms of the healing lines, Im trying the DO virtue at the moment.. and Ive been AC faithful.

Of the two, I will state, faithful is a much easier path to heal, it pops up people all the time.

Virtuous is fairly easy to keep one person at full, with no real issues, its the boss areas that kill you.. as you are running for your life and people are taking damage.. there is no insta pops to help, but its ok.

In terms of dps they both SUCK. so that's nothing to compare really.

I might respec back to faithful if I do any regular farming of t2s, other then just playing around in them. I just dont fell the compunction to do them atm, would rather farm iwd.

fizbad · June 2015

silverkelt wrote: »

I dropped out of righteous early in testing. I could tell healing was going to be needed, at least probably for most of mod 6, righteouss will come back into play again if they continue to progress us with no increase of mob difficulty (but who knows what they are planning really, I think the stat recurve was a lazy type of mechanic.. I mean I had lvl 80-100 characters in many other games. that had like 8-15k hps.. its insane the way they did the rework, instead of a general rescaling from 1-70, they went lazy and did one from 60-70.. but whatever, its what we have atm.

Adding massive HP stacks to armor was mind-boggling to say the least. I wasn't around when M6 rolled around, did they ever explain the rationale? How is this better than just rolling them into the level up bonuses?

beckylunatic · June 2015

fizbad wrote: »

Adding massive HP stacks to armor was mind-boggling to say the least. I wasn't around when M6 rolled around, did they ever explain the rationale? How is this better than just rolling them into the level up bonuses?

They wanted to force everyone to shuck their old armor sets with the monster-melting 4-piece bonuses. Giving everyone the HPs independent of the gear wouldn't have accomplished that goal.

fizbad · June 2015

beckylunatic wrote: »

They wanted to force everyone to shuck their old armor sets with the monster-melting 4-piece bonuses. Giving everyone the HPs independent of the gear wouldn't have accomplished that goal.

They could have simply toned down gear bonuses to what they consider reasonable. It doesn't look like something that begged for a fundamental change in itemization philosophy.

beckylunatic · June 2015

If you look at the gear bonuses from other module releases, they tried. And people for the most part decided that the new gear sucked because of sucky set bonuses and continued wearing their original T1 or T2 sets, depending on which performed best for their class. And it went like that module after module.

As for nerfing the original sets, I think only GFs ever actually went though that process (first with Stalwart Bulwark and then Knight Captain). Would it have worked? Hard to say. It seems to have been very difficult for them to find a sweet spot between "works way too well" and "totally garbage".

I'm paraphrasing, but the reasoning behind doing away with set bonuses on M6 gear was slightly explained and we were told that the feature would possibly be brought back in the future, but in a form that isn't as crazy overboard as they went with (some of) the original sets.

tyrtallow · June 2015

I'd say Virtuous actually has the advantage solo DPS-wise. With Faithful you need to consciously drop heals every so often for your healing feats to work. It doesn't help that your other feats favor groups/having allies around. Virtuous is just cast-and-forget (feats automatically proc on specific power use or if you have an HoT up, and Virtuous always has at least one HoT up) and you get more healing over time. As long as you have a tank/striker/controller companion handy Virtuous can be a lot more reckless than Faithful DPS-wise.

dfnce · June 2015

Adding my comment in regard to group-wise content. Solo DC Virtuous players still have to take place in group content anyway to gear up, so they will look their opportunities in lfg, guild runs or legit channel.

My opinion is that burst heal matters most vs burst damage from mobs. To be successful with Virtuous such player need to be above average with gear and experience too, team expectation is to have health being brought to full hp back asap no matter if DC tells to rest of group, he/she is Righteous, Virtuous or Faithful, team won't care, can't wait several seconds, period. Well-geared experienced DC Virtuous player can do all this, ofc it is great to have HoT effect in addition. But for average Joe there is no cookie-cutter Virtuous build which can be "easy" in average party.

I have spent great deal of time in lfg (2k-3k range) as Virtuous/Faithful (2.7k), playing half of time as GF (2.5k), being with all possible DC players in party. Virtuous heal is good for ranged class when such player can dodge and escape from mobs for few seconds, not exactly a case with GF/OP, also GWF/TR can't wait. Heck, majority of CW seem to do face tanking:) These groups are not BiS or even close to BiS parties with where even Righteous can heal to sufficient degree, where 1-2 players pretty much steamrolling everything like before.

I'm playing myself as AC Faithful AP build - burst heal, AA (75% of time) and HG (25%) dailies, Gift of Haste to AP gain by party with HoT encounters, BoH/Exaltation and third encounter adjusted to situation - AS/DG/BtS. That gives in my opinion lowest mortality rate, solid and efficient support adapted to LFG playerbase. Big relief to me after playing Virtuous DO, while full Faithful DO seems to go over-healing.

rapo973 · June 2015

dfnce wrote: »

Adding my comment in regard to group-wise content. Solo DC Virtuous players still have to take place in group content anyway to gear up, so they will look their opportunities in lfg, guild runs or legit channel.

[...]

I'm playing myself as AC Faithful AP build - burst heal, AA (75% of time) and HG (25%) dailies, Gift of Haste to AP gain by party with HoT encounters, BoH/Exaltation and third encounter adjusted to situation - AS/DG/BtS. That gives in my opinion lowest mortality rate, solid and efficient support adapted to LFG playerbase. Big relief to me after playing Virtuous DO, while full Faithful DO seems to go over-healing.

I agree with almost everything. As a full virtuous, I use more or less the same powers set-up (with the exception of exaltation).
AA is very efficient when you can cast it frequently: I'm 90% AA and 10% HG.

I've no problem with healing at all with the virtuous: when I see 110K or more I'm quite relaxed. I got 220K heal when I was overbuffed in Tiamat, but that is not the normal dungeon environment.
I can say that even the virtuous can provide the big instant clutch if you read carefully the feats of the virtuous and how all of them work togheter.
The problem is how this is done and it's not a problem of the amount of heals.

If you don't want to think too much about heals, I would say to go faithfull, but it's just a choice.
Coming back to the original question, I still believe that both faithfull and virtuous are very good to heal: the real difference is not the path, but you: your preferences, your style, your expectations and your project when you have a clear understanding of both paths.

silverkelt · June 2015

tyrtallow wrote: »

I'd say Virtuous actually has the advantage solo DPS-wise. With Faithful you need to consciously drop heals every so often for your healing feats to work. It doesn't help that your other feats favor groups/having allies around. Virtuous is just cast-and-forget (feats automatically proc on specific power use or if you have an HoT up, and Virtuous always has at least one HoT up) and you get more healing over time. As long as you have a tank/striker/controller companion handy Virtuous can be a lot more reckless than Faithful DPS-wise.

Ive run both.. Its similar in terms of overall time it takes to kill things. Virtuous is semi nice in terms of you get healing without worrying about doing else. But honestly just SB is enough to fight most mob packs. ITs going to take forever in either spec.. which is why I dont do much solo farming on my DC.. just boring.

viridian86 · June 2015

xmlx11x44 wrote: »

Lmao at all the scrubs all over Faithful.

Faithful is good for healcarrying undergeared, dumb pugs and that is about it.
Virtuous requires great timing and skill in order to heal efficiently - no doubt most of the faithful healbots lack this skill, hence the rabid obsession over a skilless autohealbot tree.

Reading this makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Don't be a dumbass.

fizbad · June 2015

Are there any dedicated Righteous DC players around? I spec'd into the line with the idea that I can switch to Healer's Lore for group content and heal with (divine) Searing Light + (empowered) Astral Shield + (empowered) Bastion of Healing, but I'm not sure how well that's going to work. I'm also not sure whether I should be trying to work Healing Word and Divine Glow into the rotation.

Any thoughts?

putzboy78 · June 2015

I'm DO Righteous. Here is what i use

Full heals - Foresight/Healer's Lore/Astral Shield/Healing Word/Bastion of Health

Full dps - Terrifying Insight/Holy Fervor/Chains of Blazing Light/Daunting Light/Divine Glow

for bosses i will usually swap out Chains of Blazing Light for Break the Spirit

That's my base setup, then as i run with the party I make changes as required. Like swapping bastion for divine glow or healer's word for holy fervor, or astral shield for chains (if you got good tank).

Using righteous for heals is a bit more gear dependent since you don't get the heal bonuses from the feats. So my opinion is that its something you graduate into. ex. I ran faithful until i was full elven elemental.

Obviously you can use searing light to heal, but that assumes that a target enemy is within 30' of the target to be healed. Which may not work for cws/hrs/sws circling the boss in elol as an example. However, if your whole team is melee then searing light is good.

Key challenge for Righteous is that you do not have a passive heal, so it requires a bit more attention on that front and makes fights like Valindra difficult since ranged players tend to spread out (for righteous tight hallways and fighting quarters are your friend).

x1101011x · June 2015

Specialization
Content Difficulty
Clear Speed

Faithful
Hard
Slow

Virtuous
Medium
Medium

Righteous
Easy
Fast

fluppery · June 2015

schietindebux wrote: »

back again? yes why do you write things like this?
sry for my english but I am sure its sufficient
posting a question is good, starting a thread with misinformations is bad
only to give u a summary of the things u posted
you don´t have to wonder if ppl reply this way in case you write misinformation and wrong stuff in so many cases

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?942121-DC-Guide&p=11070191#post11070191
the therad is about a PVP build and divinity gain, referring to a DC using profound set in PVP? Maybe I misunderstood everything, but profound gear is mod 5 and there is nothing to win in mod 6 by wearing it, or am I wrong?

the whole thread can be found here
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?942251-DC-Debuffing-powers&p=11074031#post11074031

LOL

Oh so I made a mistake and fixed it.

Why are you so serious? You're the only one reacting to what I post.

BTW, Benefit of Foresight does work. You couldn't test it, yet you insist it might not be working... LOL

*I* did test it: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?937891-Cannot-confirm-that-Foresight-is-working&p=11072081#post11072081

ichimaruginx · June 2015

I have run a righteous DC and a faithful.

- Righteous healing requires more attention and skill but it's more fun
- Faithful is more relax and you can "carry" lower geared team with better ease.
- Virtuous i'm going test it out soon

Currently I'm running faithful because I am farming t2 for my gear often with random pugs (which unlike friend/guildies, I don't know their playstyle) Another reason is that I am expriencing a lag issue atm.

On the side note tho, I have been noticing that my faithful gift of faith sometimes do not pop or is delayed. Anyone experiencing such issues? (might be i'm just lagging and didn't see it pop but i hope not)

Unknown · June 2015

This content has been removed.

[PvE] Faithfull or Virtuoso?

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