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How is a GF supposed to do his job?
doriangreigh
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
Can someone leave some legitimate feedback on how GF is supposed to do his job?
I get that having a DC is pretty much essential but even with a DC healing and throwing down some AS and me using Fighter's Recovery with Guarded Assualt (which is pretty much the only way I can keep my HP up when a healer is on CD) its near impossible to not look like some ****** **** that goes down in every encounter.
Mobs make beelines to my back, moving rather too quickly in my opinion. Mobs in normal areas generally will stay in front of me unless there are more than 3 then they start to try to circle, but in skirmishes and dungeons they will NOT stop moving until they can hit my flank and bypass my shield. Even doing heroics in IWD mobs are more manageable than a smirish or dungeon.
Every hit on me seems to always be buffed anywhere from 20 - 80% sometimes more. Even with my shield up mobs are either ensuring they are at that perfect angle to bypass the shield even when it looks like its facing right in front of them or they are flat bypassing the shield with attack despite it being up.
I am VERY certain at this point that mobs have armor pen over 50% themselves as that is the only thing that I can see as being the reason why every hit on me is amplified such a substantial amount. Armor pen should NOT give you increased damage over what the targets DR is. The alternative, powers like Divine Glow and other buff/debuffs must be giving bonsues to MOBs. In any event the damage boost to mobs is unacceptable. There is NO way in an MMO to avoid getting hit 100% of the time, programmed mechanics are such that hits register with 0 chance to miss, only mitigation or dodge and not all classes have dodge.
I have ran with a couple of tanks that seem to stay up pretty well, but when i'm playing a CW maybe i'm doing more work than when i'm a GF and others are playing a CW, and i'd really like to know how they manage to take so much punishment and NOT end up getting beat into the dirt/one shotted.
I'm fairly certain that mobs are dealing damage after they have died (server lag or what have) as I have taken damage from a mob even after there are not mobs on the screen, and the damage is NOT coming from some latent dot, its a basic attack such as swing or bite and the like.
I am also certain that shield is NOT work vs. all attacks, it seems many mobs seem to just flat bypass the shield totally.
The only tactic I have been able ot do is essentially activate iron warrior taunt and start walking backwards in hopes that other party members will kill the mobs before they acquire threat or keep walking backwards until I or them die, basically just kite backwards trying to keep shield squarly in front of mobs as much as possible, which is beyond difficult due to the enhanced speed they get to move with me or pass me, I have seen some mobs just "slide" straight to my flank not even walking just be placed there so that it can score and unprotected hit which in the current state means scoring an amplified hit gaining 20 - 80% damage bonus which results in a one shot and down hit.
Can anyone suggest something that works?
Again doing normal heroics even in IWD I have less of these issues, it takes more than 1 hit to bring me down. Its just in skirmishes and dungeons do the mobs seem to have broken AI that allows them to flank faster than they should and always getting amplified damage and seemingly bypassing shield.
A side note, how on earth are any GF's able ot activate powers, the animation/delay is just enough that when shield drops to activate a power or daily you end up face down on the ground. I have extreme difficulty in being able to actually activate a power after combat starts, always ending up with the same problem, some basic attack landing 120 - 200k damage that does not appear to be mitigated at all its actually amplified ... (apparently my 33% DR and 30% deflect do nothing at all). The only time I can get a power off is if I can time it (assuming mobs aren't staggered perfectly in their own timing) to use FLS to knock them all down so I can use a rotation of powers by the time they get up (which is to say activate 2 encounters and or a daily power). This is of course if there are NO ranged mobs currently hitting me becausse if they are I am down as soon as I try to activate FLS.
Even standing in an Astral Shield it seems a GF can't tank more than 1 - 3 targets due to the massive amount of damage they can do even with shield blocking some of it, and again it seems shield is getting bypassed.
Personally I'd like a developer comment on how it is expected that GF's are to fill their roles because right now I can't figure out how you are supposed to do anything if you don't have a DC and 2 CW's standing behind or with you.
Solo everything is fine, group skirmish and dungeons just don't seem to make a GF viable, i'm better running around on my CW with shield on tab, I can tank better with a CW using shield than my tank can and my CW barely has 70k HP while my tank is in excess of 110k.
My only recourse is to pretty much use my Tank in the most mundane content or quit every time I end up with a group that has NO cw and NO DC at all.
Tanking is supposed to be able to run into a group get their attention and hold their attention, damage is minmal but threat generation is high and soaking up a great deal of damage. However in this game if you don't have two healers of some sort to rotate heals you can't even have a prayer of taking all the damage that is dealt.
I get that having a DC is pretty much essential but even with a DC healing and throwing down some AS and me using Fighter's Recovery with Guarded Assualt (which is pretty much the only way I can keep my HP up when a healer is on CD) its near impossible to not look like some ****** **** that goes down in every encounter.
Mobs make beelines to my back, moving rather too quickly in my opinion. Mobs in normal areas generally will stay in front of me unless there are more than 3 then they start to try to circle, but in skirmishes and dungeons they will NOT stop moving until they can hit my flank and bypass my shield. Even doing heroics in IWD mobs are more manageable than a smirish or dungeon.
Every hit on me seems to always be buffed anywhere from 20 - 80% sometimes more. Even with my shield up mobs are either ensuring they are at that perfect angle to bypass the shield even when it looks like its facing right in front of them or they are flat bypassing the shield with attack despite it being up.
I am VERY certain at this point that mobs have armor pen over 50% themselves as that is the only thing that I can see as being the reason why every hit on me is amplified such a substantial amount. Armor pen should NOT give you increased damage over what the targets DR is. The alternative, powers like Divine Glow and other buff/debuffs must be giving bonsues to MOBs. In any event the damage boost to mobs is unacceptable. There is NO way in an MMO to avoid getting hit 100% of the time, programmed mechanics are such that hits register with 0 chance to miss, only mitigation or dodge and not all classes have dodge.
I have ran with a couple of tanks that seem to stay up pretty well, but when i'm playing a CW maybe i'm doing more work than when i'm a GF and others are playing a CW, and i'd really like to know how they manage to take so much punishment and NOT end up getting beat into the dirt/one shotted.
I'm fairly certain that mobs are dealing damage after they have died (server lag or what have) as I have taken damage from a mob even after there are not mobs on the screen, and the damage is NOT coming from some latent dot, its a basic attack such as swing or bite and the like.
I am also certain that shield is NOT work vs. all attacks, it seems many mobs seem to just flat bypass the shield totally.
The only tactic I have been able ot do is essentially activate iron warrior taunt and start walking backwards in hopes that other party members will kill the mobs before they acquire threat or keep walking backwards until I or them die, basically just kite backwards trying to keep shield squarly in front of mobs as much as possible, which is beyond difficult due to the enhanced speed they get to move with me or pass me, I have seen some mobs just "slide" straight to my flank not even walking just be placed there so that it can score and unprotected hit which in the current state means scoring an amplified hit gaining 20 - 80% damage bonus which results in a one shot and down hit.
Can anyone suggest something that works?
Again doing normal heroics even in IWD I have less of these issues, it takes more than 1 hit to bring me down. Its just in skirmishes and dungeons do the mobs seem to have broken AI that allows them to flank faster than they should and always getting amplified damage and seemingly bypassing shield.
A side note, how on earth are any GF's able ot activate powers, the animation/delay is just enough that when shield drops to activate a power or daily you end up face down on the ground. I have extreme difficulty in being able to actually activate a power after combat starts, always ending up with the same problem, some basic attack landing 120 - 200k damage that does not appear to be mitigated at all its actually amplified ... (apparently my 33% DR and 30% deflect do nothing at all). The only time I can get a power off is if I can time it (assuming mobs aren't staggered perfectly in their own timing) to use FLS to knock them all down so I can use a rotation of powers by the time they get up (which is to say activate 2 encounters and or a daily power). This is of course if there are NO ranged mobs currently hitting me becausse if they are I am down as soon as I try to activate FLS.
Even standing in an Astral Shield it seems a GF can't tank more than 1 - 3 targets due to the massive amount of damage they can do even with shield blocking some of it, and again it seems shield is getting bypassed.
Personally I'd like a developer comment on how it is expected that GF's are to fill their roles because right now I can't figure out how you are supposed to do anything if you don't have a DC and 2 CW's standing behind or with you.
Solo everything is fine, group skirmish and dungeons just don't seem to make a GF viable, i'm better running around on my CW with shield on tab, I can tank better with a CW using shield than my tank can and my CW barely has 70k HP while my tank is in excess of 110k.
My only recourse is to pretty much use my Tank in the most mundane content or quit every time I end up with a group that has NO cw and NO DC at all.
Tanking is supposed to be able to run into a group get their attention and hold their attention, damage is minmal but threat generation is high and soaking up a great deal of damage. However in this game if you don't have two healers of some sort to rotate heals you can't even have a prayer of taking all the damage that is dealt.
Post edited by doriangreigh on
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I just left an eToS group in frustration -- not with the group, but with the critters. When a spiderling -- a SPIDERLING -- can take 90k HP off through 55.3% DR, that's just wrong.
If no other message gets across, this one must: the difficulty of dungeon critters is unreasonable. It's not fun, it's frustrating.
You should not have to be a maxed-out GF to withstand a hit from a spiderling!
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
actually spiderlings can hit for 119k per basic attack. the orange ones that is.
Exactly, and with their armorpen? 90k still gets through. I say that is entirely unreasonable.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
yup i have a hr that has 90k with radiant rank 8s in 4 defense slots. i know im not supposed to tank but i focused with more defense and im wondering how my tank is gonna last if they hit that hard.
I feel your pain. The damage I posted is on my HR, not a GF. She has 18.6k defense! This isn't just a GF problem, it's a problem for everyone. It's probably being most keenly felt by GF's since tanking is their core job, but when every critter hits this hard the problem is much, MUCH bigger than that.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
use skill when monster is controlled.
Giving every mob Armour Penetration has basically made the defense stat useless. Astral Shield or some other class' equivalent should not be a requirement to complete a dungeon.
Put Dark Enhancements into Utility slots - minions are fast (humanoids are too fast imo), their "AI" is obviously to outflank and oneshot you, so backward speed matters. Dragon Hoard are useless, especially for GF/DC, no kills = no drop, maybe one/two Peridot or Pearl per dungeon run.
If you use KV. KV death might happens quickly if you stand between ranged NPC and team. Damage to team comes to your back this time and this is not guarded. Also some npc when jump on your shield generate splash damage affecting your teammates which stand too close to you - one shot them, one shot you with KV.
If you GF SM, try sequence Daily -> Steel Defence (short immune) -> Get Aggro/Group mobs/Soak 0% damage -> Retreat.Control abilities like crescendo and flourish allow to deal elite mobs. Also NPC melee attacks range is about 1.5-2 of normal cleave attack range. Crescendo and flourish allow to attack from safe distance.
What is annoying is shield slam lasts another 2-3 seconds in same direction, player has lost control over its character this moment.
— (The unwritten rule)
All yours analysis are right. But we missed the point.
GF is not tank anymore. Greedy Cryptic made OP to tempt players to PAAYYY. All feats of Pally are the one GF should have (defences, resistances etc)
More.
Developers have no idea how it should work, arpen just killing everyone and the only choice is CONTROL. GF stands back, push KV, ITF and pray to be not targeted.
And even more. They will not change it, till people pay for new class. Do you remember HRs? Really, really can't understand why they hate our class and do nothing, to make it viable in end game. Sad.
.Suicide Squad.
But for now our best friend is fighters recovery mixed with steel defence. It's my best survival combo anyway.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is NO EXUCE or REASONABLE EXPLANATION for making BOSS mobs hit for in excess for over 1 mil dam.
They dident make this content hard to finish they made it avoid ALL damage kill some mobs DIE if hit run back KILL some more mobs DIE when hit rince repeat until your at the boss mob.
Tanks are pure waste of space you dont need them you need CC BURN THE LIVING F**CK out of EVERTHING while AVOIDING HITS AT ALL COST.
Add some lag to this and its pure lottery if you die 5 or 20 times claering the TRASH only.
Making something hard because everyhing that actually hits you is a death sentence instead of actually working on interesting encounters where different strategy are needed is just pure lazyness and lack of imagination, shame on you cryptic is all I can say....
(Oh hi Crixus btw)
And yeah this mod needs some major fixes.
Trash mobs hit waaay too hard but the bosses are a little much. And them scorpions in ELol, they hit me 130k through guard o.0
I think there would be really good fix for gf's it wouldn't solve everything but would make some balance.
Make our guard block 100% of dmg in pve only. They have done changes tht ffect other classes powers differently in pve/pvp so buff our guard for pve so it's no longer mde out of paper
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also people refuse to put away their blasted tank companions, and they sit there randomly hard taunting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off of me and spinning Lostmauth or grabbing Scorpions and then get snarky about aggro hold slips. Or claim they have no control over it. Yeah it's great your Wild Hunt Rider held the scorpion's aggro, maybe if the thing spinning stuff hadn't killed me I could have held the aggro. Yes you have control over your companion's hard taunt, summon something else.
Oh and the people who have to run ahead of the tank. Why the role that needs to enter the room first is the slowest one with no way to speed up(OP doesn't even have ITF, though that never helped my GF much since it just gave everyone else a run speed boost too), I do not know. Or the role that takes the most damage being unable to get out of red or have any immunity or even take a hit.
I'm pretty sure at this point I'm just going to go Devotion on my OP. The healer still takes <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but at least then your job isn't to be thanklessly pounded on and get killed by your party.
Not really true. I can tank just fine with 2.7 ilvl. I could with 2.4 as well though it was a lot harder. Not a single dollar spent. Today with a guildie ranger killed scorpions by ourselves after80% I tanked both. Carefull position timed dodges and proper use of steel defence. Watch your angles.and watch your back. T2 bosses will require wall tanking(back always covered by wall). Now go and tank those things lad....
Thats the issue with gf though. you can tank well if nothing goes wrong. I have fought some hard bosses solo then other times died right away. Many times I have fought scorpions well then other times steel defence decided not to work and I get 1 shotted. Our class is so buggy and everytime you use something there is a chance it will go wrong and get you killed
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
T2s aren't supposed to be played as a GF alone, you're here to grab aggro on some big, nasty npcs, while the controllers and healer support you. With teamwork all this damage is completely under control.
If damage is lowered tanks won't be required anymore. Then enjoy having a useless character!
Agreed on this one. Maybe tjey shoild check on spiderlings and other minion type dmg. Its not that cant survive but more of it being unreasonable
Anything is reasonable when you're healed in time.