I bet you think that no one should play this game unless you say it is okay. Elitism is elitism is elitism... you cannot control me and that bothers you.
I irritate you. That is cool... I irritate a lot of people. I also elevate even more people.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Yes and there is another side to this. THe VAST majority of TRs do not get GEARED enough to stack all the Synergies that enable OP things to exist.
You want to deicmate players in PVP. Go get a Mythic Wheel, Get Lurkers Up, Get an Orange MH, get LOL set bonus and spec into SO.
Pop Fire buff, Use Lurkers then spam COS and watch everyone you face melt in seconds - it doesnt matter the class really. Its nearly as cheesy as last module SE literally 1 shotting players from 100% - 0%. Was the average TR doing that? NO. So the AVERAGE player was coming here to defend TRs saying "My SE doesnt hit for 45k+ when a player is full HP, so L2P bro". But guess what, you were not GEARED enough to do that. We can start looking at some of the issues, such as LOL set being OP but thats only ~ 10% of the damage TRs deal and same with other classes. Will it ALLEVIATE the problem? Sure. But it wont be gone.
What about SO piercing and same with Wheel Fire Buff? Sure that will alleviate the issue too. I could make posts about all these things but at the end of the day the meta is the same. If TR damage gets nerfed its not really that big a deal. I dont think you played NW module 3, TR did ZERO damage so ALL they did all module long was hop around the node not even EVER attacking. You couldnt wipe them, they literally wouldnt attack you at all. Is that why you Que for PVP? I know I dont. Its just utterly BORING.
and I KNOW and HOPE something fills that vacuum. I have posted this in the OP - the CLASSES that will be the new backcappers will probably be Paladins. But guess what, you can SEE them, they also have to sacrifice DAMAGE to be tanky. So if they want to spec into "contesting" a node, they lose damage and can more easily be killed because they can be SEEN.
As I said before, the ASSASSIN should NOT be the ideal "Defender" of a node. This should be the DEFENDERS (OP/GF/Sent GWF) to be the best defenders.
The TR should be the ultimate ASSASSIN with the HIGHEST burst damage in the game. The only way to make TRs play this way, to make the class fill that ROLE is to increase their damage (which I think its actually at a pretty fair spot atm) and make it so its LESS "effective" in a game to USE them as a defender.
Now we can go back and forth on 'changind ITC" "removing piercing" "changing Shadow Strike" "Changing stealth" blah blah blah. Why not INSTEAD of change the class - something people invest to build around. INSTEAD change the GAME? Since it HAS been an issue for YEARS in this game and it has been something that CLEARLY the DEVs cannot seem to EVER find a way to balance, just REMOVE the issue that makes it hard to balance - TR defending nodes.
Let the Defenders defend, let the ASSASSIN KILL. Thats all I am saying. Just for YOUR perspective, I used to play TR back in module 1, when this "perma" playstyle first became popular I saw the trajectory and quit my TR here is what/how I used to play and I am NOT saying this is "balanced" because its not, but this is MORE what the TR should play like than the current BULL**** "contesting" game:
(That is how a TR should FEEL and be played, high burst, but vulnerable outside stealth and stealth is used to SET UP damage not hop around a node)
That I agree with.
Which is why I cap and run. I know what my role is. As I have proudly stated in another thread... I have been 3rd in a match, 4425 points, with 0 kills and 0 deaths... and 9 assists. I cap and support. I kill when I can... and I usually die a lot.
Hell, I will even be the guy to run across the field after the opposition camps out at the campfire, to cap 5. I wont be there when they arrive, since I have moved on to 1 or 3. I like messing with the opposition... which is what a Trickster Rogue is supposed to do. I create chaos.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
0
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Mister TR, why object to this change if you wouldn't be affected by it? OP has an excellent point. Any 'good' TR nullifies the points from and potentially captures a node just by stealthing and skittering around. It's the same thing the GF/OP, who are WaI, are supposed to do. What OP is saying is that running around stealthed on a node prevents the owner from getting points, even if they have 2 there keeping you from capping it. As a bonus, you're tying up 2 members of their team for 1 member of your team, giving you an edge in fights. Again, the same as the GF. Except here's the deal breaker- you also have MASSIVE burst damage, god help any squishy character that comes to counter-contest you. The OP suggests a minor change that would only affect permastealth TR players significantly, and inhibit their Assassinate OR grind down + be unkillable. The TR stays the nuisance that he is, but as long as he's not uncontested the node will still generate points.
I stated it at the bottom... why I contest any changes.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Which is why I cap and run. I know what my role is. As I have proudly stated in another thread... I have been 3rd in a match, 4425 points, with 0 kills and 0 deaths... and 9 assists. I cap and support. I kill when I can... and I usually die a lot.
Hell, I will even be the guy to run across the field after the opposition camps out at the campfire, to cap 5. I wont be there when they arrive, since I have moved on to 1 or 3. I like messing with the opposition... which is what a Trickster Rogue is supposed to do. I create chaos.
Yeah so whats YOUR solution? Post a thread about how TRs shouldnt be playing so effectively?
I mean dude, not to be a jerk but it seems to me that you are not really "up to speed" on competitive premades and how "top tier pvp" is played.
Hearing you chose WK as your path and then ontop of that seeing you cap and run... Both of those if WE were in party together I would probably be getting pissed at YOU for not playing the way I am saying needs to be changed. Because its too effective and wins games.
So since you AGREE how a TR should be played and you also DONT play the way I am suggesting TRs should NOT be played. It doesnt make sense that you want to advocate against my idea?
I think it's OP is a good idea. Why not either increase stealth depletion or just don't allow TRs to not contest node while in stealth?
Let's see, players cried for DC nerfing when it came to healing, this resulted in Righteousness becoming a class feature given to them (-40% nerf to self healing). Then came the HAMSTER with the new tenacity pvp mod, which gave DC another healing nerf, called healing depression (PvP only).
While Righteousness is an always active (needed) nerf, healing depression is only active in PvP. So why not impair/nerf/fix a trs stealth or ability to contest a node while in stealth or increase their stealth depletion in pvp?
If stealth is depleted faster in (PvP only)
- Means they have to play with more tactics as other ( not all) classes do.
or
If while in Stealth, Tr cannot contest node (PvP only)
- Trs can still can be stealth, kill opposing team, and now plays a more supporting role.
Many players cry for balancing but in actuality, all they really want is for their own class to be better than all others. This is partly why players say PvP will never be balanced.
I show player support, by only playing Neverwinter as F2P
I think not being able to contest while in stealth should be considered, but it doesn't really solve the core issues. TRs would just turn into invisible invincible little node clearers running around making the game miserable for everyone rather than just the guys fighting them on their node.
And weren't they playing around with some 3v3 deathmatch thing on preview? If they add any other form of PvPing, class balance needs to take that into consideration as well.
It really doesn't take much either, just get the TR paths working as they are intended: Saboteurs should have high survivability, but low damage output; executioners high damage output but less survivability. Other classes should stand a fair chance 1v1.
A substantial part of the current problem besides Shadowy Opportunity being broken also goes back to stealth reveal being removed; if that was still in, TRs would not be able to abuse CoS with impunity as they do now.
I agree with some of the core issues. I think one thing to consider when looking at addressing the things as you have stated: Stealth reveal and Sabos having less damage (maybe SO is the way to go).
However all I think this gets us BACK to is ~ module 3 TR. As long as TRs most "optimal" role in a PM is to be stealthed and contest a node, I dont see a "DPS TR" ever being a focus in PVP.
With stealth reveal and SO changed to NON-piercing, all that will happen is Sabos will just never attack, just run around the node. While its "more fair" in the sense its harder for the TR to 1v1 and 2v1 classes, it doesnt alleviate the frustration of the "meta" of "perma stealth contest".
I just doesnt seem much like "KOTH" when all you have to do is "contest".
Or maybe ANOTHER option would be to change the game entirely: if its 1v1 its contested, if its 2v1 however the team with TWO players on a node override the "ONE" from the opposing team and the node no longer counts as contesting.
THIS would alleviate the 2v1 issue of the TR forcing two players to fight against him as it provides no "real" advantage as the node is no longer contested while it would still allow the TR to 1v1 just as well and contest a node. That seems much more fair IMO. Maybe THIS is the solution. You can "cap" if you outnumber, so why not allowing to "tick" as well if you outnumber them? This changes the meta from throwing ONE person on a node to contest and make the game much more about teamplay than anything else.
Comments
I bet you think that no one should play this game unless you say it is okay. Elitism is elitism is elitism... you cannot control me and that bothers you.
I irritate you. That is cool... I irritate a lot of people. I also elevate even more people.
That I agree with.
Which is why I cap and run. I know what my role is. As I have proudly stated in another thread... I have been 3rd in a match, 4425 points, with 0 kills and 0 deaths... and 9 assists. I cap and support. I kill when I can... and I usually die a lot.
Hell, I will even be the guy to run across the field after the opposition camps out at the campfire, to cap 5. I wont be there when they arrive, since I have moved on to 1 or 3. I like messing with the opposition... which is what a Trickster Rogue is supposed to do. I create chaos.
I stated it at the bottom... why I contest any changes.
Yeah so whats YOUR solution? Post a thread about how TRs shouldnt be playing so effectively?
I mean dude, not to be a jerk but it seems to me that you are not really "up to speed" on competitive premades and how "top tier pvp" is played.
Hearing you chose WK as your path and then ontop of that seeing you cap and run... Both of those if WE were in party together I would probably be getting pissed at YOU for not playing the way I am saying needs to be changed. Because its too effective and wins games.
So since you AGREE how a TR should be played and you also DONT play the way I am suggesting TRs should NOT be played. It doesnt make sense that you want to advocate against my idea?
Let's see, players cried for DC nerfing when it came to healing, this resulted in Righteousness becoming a class feature given to them (-40% nerf to self healing). Then came the HAMSTER with the new tenacity pvp mod, which gave DC another healing nerf, called healing depression (PvP only).
While Righteousness is an always active (needed) nerf, healing depression is only active in PvP. So why not impair/nerf/fix a trs stealth or ability to contest a node while in stealth or increase their stealth depletion in pvp?
If stealth is depleted faster in (PvP only)
- Means they have to play with more tactics as other ( not all) classes do.
or
If while in Stealth, Tr cannot contest node (PvP only)
- Trs can still can be stealth, kill opposing team, and now plays a more supporting role.
Many players cry for balancing but in actuality, all they really want is for their own class to be better than all others. This is partly why players say PvP will never be balanced.
I agree with some of the core issues. I think one thing to consider when looking at addressing the things as you have stated: Stealth reveal and Sabos having less damage (maybe SO is the way to go).
However all I think this gets us BACK to is ~ module 3 TR. As long as TRs most "optimal" role in a PM is to be stealthed and contest a node, I dont see a "DPS TR" ever being a focus in PVP.
With stealth reveal and SO changed to NON-piercing, all that will happen is Sabos will just never attack, just run around the node. While its "more fair" in the sense its harder for the TR to 1v1 and 2v1 classes, it doesnt alleviate the frustration of the "meta" of "perma stealth contest".
I just doesnt seem much like "KOTH" when all you have to do is "contest".
Or maybe ANOTHER option would be to change the game entirely: if its 1v1 its contested, if its 2v1 however the team with TWO players on a node override the "ONE" from the opposing team and the node no longer counts as contesting.
THIS would alleviate the 2v1 issue of the TR forcing two players to fight against him as it provides no "real" advantage as the node is no longer contested while it would still allow the TR to 1v1 just as well and contest a node. That seems much more fair IMO. Maybe THIS is the solution. You can "cap" if you outnumber, so why not allowing to "tick" as well if you outnumber them? This changes the meta from throwing ONE person on a node to contest and make the game much more about teamplay than anything else.