Feedback on Alchemy at lv 25

scathias · February 2015

Since there is no official thread for feedback on the Professions at lv 25 i am starting an Alchemy one here. Perhaps the mods or the Devs will want to merge this into an official should they choose to make one.

Feedback
I like the idea of the new potions, they are excellent upgrades to what we currently have available and will make alchemy a useful profession once more

The Create Elemental Aggregate tasks however takes 7 days to complete, and the Elemental Aggregate (EA from here on) itself says it is used in all the other equipment producing professions. I had a look through Weaponsmithing and Platesmithing and saw that all of the tasks that make green gear from lv 21-25 use 1 EA as a component so I am going to assume that the same will go for all the other professions as well.

With a 7 day timer to create 1 EA there is no way there will be enough supply of the EAs to fulfill the demand that there will be, especially since making shirts and pants takes 2 EAs each. If the EAs are also a drop from somewhere (which is not suggested by a reading of the item text) then that may possibly take care of the supply situation except that then the alchemy task to create the EAs would be useless.

Another barrier to proper supply of the EAs will be the drop rate of the Elemental Air/Water/Fire/Earth x 4 each to create the EA. Currently I have only had the Elemental Water from from HEs that I did in the Drowned Shore so that is where i assume the rest of the items will drop. It is an excellent way to keep the HEs relevant over time but will provide a significant barrier to production in the professions on the scale that will be needed to simply level the professions up.

The Create Unified Elements task takes even longer at 12 days as well as requiring 4 EAs to create. And as far as I can see the Unified Elements (UE from here on) will be required to produce any item that has will have a gem slot on it (gemmed blue gear, purple shirts/pants). As such the UE will suffer from all of the problems that the EA does except in greater proportion do to the even greater demand for purple clothes

In light of everything I have written I recommend you drop the time required to create these 2 items to something like 1 hour and 4 hours as well as adding a rare task with a tiered system to it. Double or triple the required components and at T1 you get 1-2 back, T2 is 3-4, T3 is 5-6 for the EA and for the UE it would be T1 = 1, T2=2, T3=3 with an appropriate amount of time per task. there may be rare tasks that do this already but i have not seen them.

It would also be nice to have a transmutation system for the Elemental Fire/water/air/earth added to alchemy similar to the one already in place for the Green and Blue resources (like the green Witchwood or Fundamental Earth and the blue Arcane Crystal and Eldritch Crystal). Please add these as "free" recipes and not as extra recipes to unlock via the experimentation

Bugs
-The potions from lv 21-25 do not all require lv 65 to use at this point

-The potions do not all follow the same naming Conventions as the other lv 65 potions. IE: there is a Enhanced Superior Elixir of Accuracy and a Superior Elixir of Reflexes, both of which provide the same bonus value on use.

-Similarly, not all the Major tier potions are named the same, there are Major Elixir of Reflexes and Major Potion of Force. It is like this on Live at the moment as well but this is a good chance to fix it

-The potions also do not all have updated icons and some are reusing the icons from the Major potions, I suspect those are just place holders but it bares mentioning.

-There is no Superior version of the Iceforge Healing Elixir for use in lv 65+ open world pvp

-Not all the rare tasks of the Superior potions take 6 hours, some take 7.5 hours, consistency would be nice

-Extremely long completion times for the Elemental Aggregate (7 days) and the Unified Elements (12 days) added as a bug just in case, I have given Feedback on this above

beckylunatic · February 2015

I figured Alchemy must be where those crafting materials came from. If long completion times are intended (precisely in order to put a limit on supply), then cutting them back to mere hours is probably too short. What I'd look to regarding balancing them though is that the previous max time on profession tasks has been 3 days, for a weapon you'd only be making one time. Maybe cut to 18 hours for EA and 2 days for UE.

Fingers crossed for making better black ice salves. I've only just copied a character that was ready to get on with training Alchemy.

zeusom · February 2015

I posted the full tree here same time (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?840111-Level-21-25-Alchemy-(new-pots-etc)) Idid not mean to double-post on same subject. Yes the craft times are very long, purple workers cuts the time drastically. There are some bugs/consistencies pointed out in this thread. A fundamental->elemental transmutation would be nice since the elemental fire/ice/water/air are limiting reagents.

scathias · February 2015

The reason I cut the times for EA and UE to only hours is that they are need for ALL the professions and EVERY task. even spending 9 slots on doing only EA at 18hs (much reduced if you have purples which only the 'whales' can take advantage of on a 9 slot scale and multiple characters) this is going to bottle neck everything, and for a very long time except for the very rich players that can buy it all

angrysprite · February 2015

Zen Market Professions Pack.

One purple Super-duper-uber-Alchemist turns 12 days into 9 Days; Three of them will turn it into 6 days and hence turn 7 days into 3.5. Do you see where I'm going with this? And why it is unlikely they'll lower the time requirements?

I am not saying it's right or wrong or correct or broken, or that I agree with it or not or anything. I'm just pointing out that time requirements are on a sliding scale based on the "quality" of assets and also makes the end product more valuable at the same time.

beckylunatic · February 2015

Ok, so the thing with that... green and blue crafted gear is highly likely to still be utter trash compared to anything else of comparable level, so who cares? Material supply is needed to replace everyone's shirts and pants, and I guess armor kits if they rebalance them to be anything close to worth the cost of obtaining them.

Levelling crafting by making items that consumed rare resources was rarely efficient or profitable, and nearly every task in all the crafting could safely be ignored unless you were after something really specific.

zeusom · February 2015

Because only about half the L25 trees have been filled in we dont know all the things EA/UE will be needed for yet. Probably lots of people will be crafting the EA and UE... Sure some will craft with all purple workers and provide earlybird overinflated price special, but everyone can craft them with blue green and white workers. Over time as more and more appear on the AH the price will come down to something reasonable. The items crafted using these EA/UE just wont be instantly available.

scathias · February 2015

If you are willing to invest the resources like residuum then creating the green and blue gear provides a much faster way to level up a profession then simply doing the gathering tasks. Since this is what i was planning on doing (crafting the gear to level) it is why i am so unhappy about this. apart from that though you are right, no one will be making the gear to actually use except possibly as transmutes or while leveling through to lv 70

Unknown · February 2015

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checkmatein3 · February 2015

The complaint is that it takes too long to craft Elemental Aggregate and Unified Element through the Alchemy profession and that drop rates via HEs is too low to consider farming for drops.

In fact, on preview, the hourly quests in the first area of Drowned Shores give both Elemental Aggregate (rare) and Unified Elements (epic). You access these hourly quests after 20-30min of questing in the Drowned Shore. Then, you can repeat the collection of these materials as much as you like (hourly).

At least, it is that way on preview at present...

So, the complaint that the time to make these elements for higher weapon/armor crafting is unfounded (if the hourly quests will continue to grant the items necessary).

Thank you.

graalx3 · February 2015

There is a significant difference between the Enhanced Superior potions made by Alchemy and the dropped Superior potions.

Alchemy is not the only source of Elemental Aggregate and Unified Elements. They drop from skill nodes and as checkmatein3 mentioned are available as quest rewards.

I am not inclined to make tasks to transmute base Elemental items as they are given as quest rewards in particular zones and I would like to see all of the new zones in use as time goes by. I'll definitely give the idea some thought.

Thanks for the bugs and the feedback.

zeusom · February 2015

checkmatein3 wrote: »

So, the complaint that the time to make these elements for higher weapon/armor crafting is unfounded (if the hourly quests will continue to grant the items necessary).
Thank you.

Wow your right, they are a reward for hourly Drowned Shore heroic encounters. So this does not seem congruent. Why would anyone bother to craft one in 7 days when you could get 7 in one day by doing heroic encounters? I think either the time for crafting them will be reduced or the difficulty/frequency of obtaining them from heroic encounters will be increased, probably the latter. On launch these guarenteed EA/UE rewards are likely to be daily rewards.

scathias · February 2015

Thank you for this information, it was unknown to me.

However, this means the days that Alchemy takes to complete production of EA and UE are even more out of balance then I thought before.

Here is my reasoning. If I commit 7 days to the production an EA I am hoping i am going to get a return on that time invested. However, since the EA and UE are earned from the hourly quests it is very very likely i will be able to spend that time making Aqua Regia (or leadership or whatever) to sell or otherwise make a profit that will far outstrip what a single EA will get me in return for those 7 days.

A lot of this is going to depend on market forces that Cryptic can't control outright, but they can help by making Alchemy a competitive place to obtain these items. If i can earn a EA or UE every hour then i should be able to do something similar with alchemy should I not?

i will be back with more feedback about this once i find out the reward rates for the EA/UE on preview right now

graalx3 · February 2015

Elemental Aggregate and Unified Elements can be quest rewards. They are not guaranteed drops.

zeusom · February 2015

Ok.. the guaranteed drops from the early Drowned shore quests are [Elemental Water Sealed Container] and 1 or 2 [Elemental Water]. I completed 10 of the quests and a few of the walk up heroic encounter and no elemental aggregate or unified element drop.

Hoping for an alchemical transmute for fundamental ice/fire/earth/lightning to elemental water/earth/fire/air.

Unknown · February 2015

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zeusom · February 2015

If the EA/UE are rare, the long crafting time could worth it. If not, people won'tr craft them since doing anything else with profession slots will make provide more value.

One slot working 4x purple alchemists could craft four Elemental Aggregate in a week.

scathias · February 2015

graalx3 wrote: »

There is a significant difference between the Enhanced Superior potions made by Alchemy and the dropped Superior potions.

Just to clear up what I meant here, Alchemy is currently making both Enhanced Superior potions and Superior Elixir potions and Enhanced Superior Elixirs but giving all of them the same effect, +1000 to a stat, lasts 1 hour and persists through death.

I have not yet received a Superior potion as a drop but i will take your word that they are different.

graalx3 · February 2015

AhhHA! That's just the title of the task that is wrong. It does make an Enhanced Superior Elixir of Reflexes.

scathias · February 2015

Ah so it does. What about the Enhanced Superior Tidespan (and Fortification and Force) Potions not containing the word Elixir in either the task name or the potion it creates? (which I actually double checked and then tested this time)

zeusom · February 2015

graalx3 wrote: »

There is a significant difference between the Enhanced Superior potions made by Alchemy and the dropped Superior potions.

Nice - then these higher Alchemy potion crafting tasks will be in use. There was no point to use the lower level Alchemy tasks to make the same pots that drop plentifully from pve content. I am curious to find out the difference between the Enhanced Superior pots craftable by alchemy and the normal pots that will drop from Level 65-70 PVE content.

Here are the Alchemy Level 21-25 craft Potions at the moment:

Potion of Superior Healing.....................................Instantly Heal 10,000 HP
Superior Potion of Rejuvenation.............................2,645 HP every 2 sec for 12 sec (+15,870 HP)
Distilled Potion of Superior Healing.........................Instant 10,000 HP then 850 HP every 2 sec for 12 sec (+15,100 HP)

Enhanced Superior Potion of Force.........................1000 Power for 1 hour, persists through death
Enhanced Superior Elixir of Accuracy......................1000 Crit strike for 1 hour, persists through death
Enhanced Superior Tidespan Potion........................1000 Recovery for 1 hour, persists through death
Enhanced Superior Elixir of Reflexes.......................1000 Deflect for 1 hour, persists through death
Enhanced Superior Fortification Potion....................1000 Defense for 1 hour, persists through death

Superior Flask of Potency (Duration 30 min, persists through death)
400 Crit Strike
400 Recovery
400 Power
7.5% Crit Severity

Superior Flask of Protection (Duration 30 min, persists through death)
400 Defense
400 Deflect
1200 HP

zeusom · February 2015

graalx3 wrote: »

I am not inclined to make tasks to transmute base Elemental items as they are given as quest rewards in particular zones and I would like to see all of the new zones in use as time goes by.

Thanks for the bugs and the feedback.

Makes sense. New zones should be the source of new raw materials. Maybe something like [Elemental Water]+ n[Fundamental Ice] -> 2 [Elemental Water] could work and still keep the need to play the zones. Maybe [Fundamental x] transmutes to a higher level primordial goo where goo + an element > 2 elements.

burkaanc · February 2015

graalx3 wrote: »

Alchemy is not the only source of Elemental Aggregate and Unified Elements. They drop from skill nodes and as checkmatein3 mentioned are available as quest rewards.

bots will love this, wouldnt it be better to add them as dungeon drops if they are then simply increase the chance ?

beckylunatic · February 2015

Feedback - Black Ice Salve:
I'd still really like to see an Alchemical option to create the higher tier black ice salves that are currently only available to people PvPing in IWD, since I think this is an unfair limitation when BI gear was not designed exclusively for PvP players.

I have dredged up my old thread where I wrote up thoughts in detail
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?779591-Alchemy-and-black-ice-salve-%28professions-suggestion%29

taurude · April 2015

Hello, i recently update my Alchemy to level 25 but looks like i miss a skill.
In the link: http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Alchemy_Page_2#cite_ref-R25result_13-0 from the official gamepedia and as well in the posts of the fellow users it's seen to exist a skill called "Create Unified Elements" common task from level 25, but it's not listed in the profession tree in my case.
There is any other player current in the same situation? Do i proceed to open a ticket or wait in till the next maintenance before open it?
Sorry after read the skill properly i manage to understand that you need to get the skill from the Rank 25 Experimentation result, so i going to do this experiment and see what happens.

ironzerg79 · April 2015

You need to do the level 25 research tasks until you discover it.

feanor70118 · April 2015

Is there any definitive answer to how many successful rank 25 experimentation results there are? I've succeeded 3x so far, including learning to create unified elements, but the task is still available. (I'm guessing 1 more since I can't create the superior flask of potency yet).

blackjackwidow · April 2015

feanor70118 wrote: »

Is there any definitive answer to how many successful rank 25 experimentation results there are? I've succeeded 3x so far, including learning to create unified elements, but the task is still available. (I'm guessing 1 more since I can't create the superior flask of potency yet).

Yes, there are 4: Unified Elements, Superior Potency, Superior Protection, Superior Unstable Potion

Feedback on Alchemy at lv 25

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