test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

5 BIGGEST module 6 "Issues" that need to be addressed

ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
So after getting to lvl 70, getting a few Transcendent encahnts to test out, I have my full Elemental Burning PVP set (the black ice rank 5 upgraded version) and have done several GG/Dominations as well as every Epic lvl 70 dungeon thus far (havnt completed them all but have completed every T1 and gotten to the last boss and/or cleared in every T2)

There are FIVE MAJOR issues that NEED to be addressed TODAY.

1) This is the MOST obvious one. PVE MOB DAMAGE. I have already highlighted this in another thread but its just laughable. Classes who dont feel this are CC heavy classes like CWs or classes that have immunity frames for dodges. The groups I have been running T1s with, are super CC heavy never really allowing any of the mobs to "hit" you and the CC immune mobs we usually have an HR or TR "tank" since HR has "fox shift" dodge as well as MANY small immunity frame dodges and TRs can perma Stealth/ITC/BloodBath repeat basically making them "immune" to all damage.

For more detail about this damage here is the thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?887011-PVE-dungeons-ran-several-last-night-for-hours-PVE-mobs-dealing-1Mil-Damage

2) Lostmauth Set. As an owner myself of the set and I know MANY have already invested into this, while there are some MAJOR game breaking issues with it that I wont get into here (that allow for the 'solo' of most PVE bosses) Overall the set bonus is FAR too good for what I think the DEVs had in mind. Not only is it plagued by the same issues as "Storm Spell" (Since it procs off a crit its always a crit, Storm spell needs to be nerfed in this respect as well) but its boosting damage for some classes FAR too much and gives other classes like TR/CW a MASSIVE advantage because of "stealth crit" and "eye of the storm" crit. Its benefiting off damage bonuses and for my GWF a proc of 8k+ is not uncommon. Ive seen TRs and CWs BLOW UP people with basically JUST the Lostmouth set bonus and its a MAJOR factor in both PVP and PVE damage.

For some additional detail see here: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?885821-lostmauth-set-bonus

SOLUTION: Give this set bonus a 5 second ICD. This will still make it good and worth using but not TOO strong where you can get 5+ hits of it in just a few seconds with back to back crits. This will also fix the "PVE issue" referenced above as well as normalize alot of classes damage. Any more than 5 seconds and it wont be worth investing into the set, you DO NOT want to OVER NERF it or else MANY MANY players will be very mad seeing as this is the cryptic pattern and its frustrating ALOT of people. There have been threads about this and you have KILLED players desire to invest RL $ into items because of this over buff/bugged item then gets OVER nerfed. Trust me on a 5 sec ICD and it will fix ALOT of the issues.

3) Devoted Cleric 'infinite Daily'. This is simple, the Artifact Equipment Offhand is bugged, there is a class feature "bonus" that provides teammates AP but is bugged and literally fills everyone's AP in seconds. Basically allowing infinite dailies. This causes issues with PVP and PVE. CWs using Singularity over and over with no target cap in PVE. TRs infinite bloodbath. I dont need to go on... Its VERY VERY broken.

4) Transcendent Bloodtheft Enchant. . Again, I OWN this. I have tested and seen it first hand. I think I have narrowed down the issue. Its tooltip states that it Deals damage to your attacker, heals you for that amount then heals AGAIN OVER 4 seconds.

What is ACTUALLY happening though is it is dealing damage to your attacker and healing you, then it deals damage and heals you again infinite times over the next 4 seconds. So if a person DoTs you and it procs, the enchant keeps 'proccing' each time you are struck during that four seconds, dealing damage and healing.

For an ACT log of this see this post here: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?883561-Transcendent-Terror-Enchant-DEBUFFING-my-attack-not-my-target-lt-BROKEN-gt&p=10524111&viewfull=1#post10524111

SOLUTION: An easily solution for this is to honestly keep it as is, but just apply an ICD to it so it cannot proc more than once every second. It can still keep its damage+heal and still be a 30 sec CD, but needs an ICD of atleast 1 second to make it balanced. Reverting it back to the tooltip will actually OVER nerf it and make it Useless - so Id avoid this IMO.

5) Trickster Rogue Feat: Knife's Edge.. This has been said over and over. This feat procs multiple times off BloodBath daily and resets ALL of the TRs CDs. This enables them to be near invincible since you can use "Impossible to Catch" then Bloodbath then "ITC again since it FULLY resets all your CDs. With things like AP cloaks as well as DC artifacts, or worse with the DC OH bug, its VERY easy to get a daily up, and basically be "immune" to damage over and over and over....

This just need to be fixed or even an EASY fix would just be to change this to: Activating an Encounter Power reduces your Cooldowns by: 1/2/3/4/5%. Would be MUCH better than having an infinitely impossible to catch TR (pun intended).


These are the MOST game breaking issues currently going on that drastically affect both PVE and PVP. Fix these FIVE things and the game will be MUCH MUCH more balanced than it is today.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13

Comments

  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I guess #6 should be stated that AC gives FAR TO LITTLE DR effect.

    With all classes having the ability to reach 100k+ HP and now that defense is only 400:1 mitigating any real advantage tanks have over DPS classes.

    The ONLY Thing tanks get are more AC which the boost in AC + Defense DR is a SINGLE DIGIT DR NUMBER!

    They need to BOOST AC to ATLEAST be 2:1 AC:DR

    This will also alleviate some of the "PVE DAMAGE" issues tank classes and melee classes feel. 2:1% is really not going to break the game by ANY means but more fairly balance high AC versus low AC in the form of DR.
  • qutsemniequtsemnie Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Pretty good post other than the AC thing. Most people that know whats up don't bother to post it for devs, and most people that don't just guess random things about whats broken. I agree on the AC thing, but most of the others are just broken is a little different. Like infinite AP for the group sounds broken... period, and the AC thing is just addressing a general problem: all their math (include boss pen) adds up to tanks and non-tanks are the same as far as mitigation which is kind of a different level of issue.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    So after getting to lvl 70, getting a few Transcendent encahnts to test out, I have my full Elemental Burning PVP set (the black ice rank 5 upgraded version) and have done several GG/Dominations as well as every Epic lvl 70 dungeon thus far (havnt completed them all but have completed every T1 and gotten to the last boss and/or cleared in every T2)

    There are FIVE MAJOR issues that NEED to be addressed TODAY.

    1) This is the MOST obvious one. PVE MOB DAMAGE. I have already highlighted this in another thread but its just laughable. Classes who dont feel this are CC heavy classes like CWs or classes that have immunity frames for dodges. The groups I have been running T1s with, are super CC heavy never really allowing any of the mobs to "hit" you and the CC immune mobs we usually have an HR or TR "tank" since HR has "fox shift" dodge as well as MANY small immunity frame dodges and TRs can perma Stealth/ITC/BloodBath repeat basically making them "immune" to all damage.

    For more detail about this damage here is the thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?887011-PVE-dungeons-ran-several-last-night-for-hours-PVE-mobs-dealing-1Mil-Damage

    2) Lostmauth Set. As an owner myself of the set and I know MANY have already invested into this, while there are some MAJOR game breaking issues with it that I wont get into here (that allow for the 'solo' of most PVE bosses) Overall the set bonus is FAR too good for what I think the DEVs had in mind. Not only is it plagued by the same issues as "Storm Spell" (Since it procs off a crit its always a crit, Storm spell needs to be nerfed in this respect as well) but its boosting damage for some classes FAR too much and gives other classes like TR/CW a MASSIVE advantage because of "stealth crit" and "eye of the storm" crit. Its benefiting off damage bonuses and for my GWF a proc of 8k+ is not uncommon. Ive seen TRs and CWs BLOW UP people with basically JUST the Lostmouth set bonus and its a MAJOR factor in both PVP and PVE damage.

    For some additional detail see here: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?885821-lostmauth-set-bonus

    SOLUTION: Give this set bonus a 5 second ICD. This will still make it good and worth using but not TOO strong where you can get 5+ hits of it in just a few seconds with back to back crits. This will also fix the "PVE issue" referenced above as well as normalize alot of classes damage. Any more than 5 seconds and it wont be worth investing into the set, you DO NOT want to OVER NERF it or else MANY MANY players will be very mad seeing as this is the cryptic pattern and its frustrating ALOT of people. There have been threads about this and you have KILLED players desire to invest RL $ into items because of this over buff/bugged item then gets OVER nerfed. Trust me on a 5 sec ICD and it will fix ALOT of the issues.

    3) Devoted Cleric 'infinite Daily'. This is simple, the Artifact Equipment Offhand is bugged, there is a class feature "bonus" that provides teammates AP but is bugged and literally fills everyone's AP in seconds. Basically allowing infinite dailies. This causes issues with PVP and PVE. CWs using Singularity over and over with no target cap in PVE. TRs infinite bloodbath. I dont need to go on... Its VERY VERY broken.

    4) Transcendent Bloodtheft Enchant. . Again, I OWN this. I have tested and seen it first hand. I think I have narrowed down the issue. Its tooltip states that it Deals damage to your attacker, heals you for that amount then heals AGAIN OVER 4 seconds.

    What is ACTUALLY happening though is it is dealing damage to your attacker and healing you, then it deals damage and heals you again infinite times over the next 4 seconds. So if a person DoTs you and it procs, the enchant keeps 'proccing' each time you are struck during that four seconds, dealing damage and healing.

    .
    "Trust me on a 5 sec ICD and it will fix ALOT of the issues."

    I say no cuz its an overnerf for GWF and this only helps CW's and TR's cuz they have 100 % crit chance but GWF only can achive max 60%.
    I think the best solution is to make class restriction only for GWF and TR .

    I just want to add 1 thing to your list SW's Fabled Iliyanbruen set Deal way to much dmg .
    In 30 sec SW can deal ower 20 mill dps on bosses .

    We had an SW joined to VT run on last boss cuz our DC rage quit from the laag in VT .
    And he just say to us no casket i will burn down valindra.

    We finished the boss in 3 min cuz we need to wait on pahse 1 and 2 .
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I say no cuz its an overnerf for GWF and this only helps CW's and TR's cuz they have 100 % crit chance but GWF only can achive max 60%.
    I think the best solution is to make class restriction only for GWF and TR .

    I just want to add 1 thing to your list SW's Fabled Iliyanbruen set Deal way to much dmg .
    In 30 sec SW can deal ower 20 mill dps on bosses .

    We had an SW joined to VT run on last boss cuz our DC rage quit from the laag in VT .
    And he just say to us no casket i will burn down valindra.

    We finished the boss in 3 min cuz we need to wait on pahse 1 and 2 .

    You cant just make it class specific LOL!

    TRs get 100% stealth crits but can only stay IN stealth a short period of time and attack. Thus a 5 sec ICD means they will never get more than 1 proc each time they stealth.

    Also CWs EOTS lasts 6 seconds. Meaning they can now only get about 2 procs each EOTS.

    GWFs have much better BASE crit than the other classes but rely less on procs.

    Id also wonder if the SW was using the lostmauth set for his damage. since this seems to mirror the other classes glitch with the set....
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    You cant just make it class specific LOL!

    TRs get 100% stealth crits but can only stay IN stealth a short period of time and attack. Thus a 5 sec ICD means they will never get more than 1 proc each time they stealth.

    Also CWs EOTS lasts 6 seconds. Meaning they can now only get about 2 procs each EOTS.

    GWFs have much better BASE crit than the other classes but rely less on procs.

    Id also wonder if the SW was using the lostmauth set for his damage. since this seems to mirror the other classes glitch with the set....

    Nop Con belt Black ice neck .
    Sw dont need lostmauth set .
    Just Fabled Iliyanbruen set .

    Also CWs dont need EOS to get 100 % crit chance .
    Tr can manage all time steath for 100% crit chance.
    HR can manage 100% crit chance too .

    But on all other class the dmg from lostmauth set is normal around 10-20 % dps boost .

    Easy fix if the dmg from lostmauth set cannot crit.
    But agan its only broken on CW renegade /perma TR / and archery HR.
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • jumboyetjumboyet Member Posts: 211 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    Lostmouth set is ONLY bugged on HRs! Dont nerf it for other classes. On normal classes its doing a maximum of 5% of overall damage. Its nothing. just try running ACT.
  • dewman22dewman22 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Does anyone know i they are fixing the ioun stone legendary 15% stat bonus?
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Dooh fix aura of courage. Paladin class features it needs a severe icd. I can do up to 8kk damage with it
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rayrdan wrote: »
    Dooh fix aura of courage. Paladin class features it needs a severe icd. I can do up to 8kk damage with it


    Tell me the secret how???

    it do only 1,4 % of they hp as dmg

    To deal 8 k dmg with it they need around 600 k hp .
    sorry but you spread only flash rumors .,
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Tell me the secret how???

    it do only 1,4 % of they hp as dmg

    To deal 8 k dmg with it they need around 600 k hp .
    sorry but you spread only flash rumors .,
    Come will your paladin if you have one. I can hit up to 8kk with your aura of courage with a single encounter usage.
    I never never spread lies. One maybe can disagree for its own advantage. That does not mean im lying.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jumboyet wrote: »
    Lostmouth set is ONLY bugged on HRs! Dont nerf it for other classes. On normal classes its doing a maximum of 5% of overall damage. Its nothing. just try running ACT.

    Have it. Done it. More than 5%.

    Also ACT only shows PVE, go into PVP and its effects are also massive as well. 4-5k Sure Strike crits with an 8-12k Lostmauth proc.

    That happens 2-3x in Unstoppable and you just bursted

    36k-50k from THREE at will crits.

    Ive even had this proc for 45k before... Now thats not the norm and an extreme rarity of debuffs + damage buffs, but still.... When it has zero ICD, any decent player stacking +damage and crit will get BIG procs and VERY often. So it either needs to be one or the other:

    1) Big proc opportunity - allows +dmg buffs but an ICD
    2) OFTEN procs - NON +dmg buffs NO ICD.


    The #2 option favors certain classes FAR too much (like TR/CW) making crit stacking FAR too powerful especially with AoE abilities. So I think #1 is FAR FAR better allowing for potentially big procs (almost like Tenebrous) but with an ICD making it less often and making you rely LESS on Crit % Chance. It makes it more fair for more classes.

    Id say the only class that may not seem like a big deal is TR since they get very little +dmg bonuses. Thus the procs only hit for like 2-4k.

    CWs - in combo with SpellStorm (another VERY OP feat thats needs a tone down) can get INCREDIBLE burst damage with this as well.

    is it broken on HR? Yup, but instead of trying to recode all that and having it STILL be very OP for other classes, assigning it an ICD of 5 seconds will fix the HR issue, as well as the CW burst in combo with EOTS+SS.


    Also if its only doing 5% of your damage, a 5 sec ICD will hardly touch it at all.

    DEVs specifically stated that the set bonuses were just that a "bonus" but not THE main reason to use the pieces... The set IS THE main reason to use the pieces.

    Heck, Id even be ok with a 2-3 sec ICD if you are REALLY worried about it being over-nerfed however I really dont think 5 is too much at all.

    10 sec ICD is FAR too much and ruins the set nearly completely...
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The Devs specifically stated that they wanted to remove set bonuses so people had more choice in gear. right now in its current state the Lostmauth set is so overpoweringly awesome that not using it puts you at a severe disadvantage. hence limiting gear again. I like the ICD suggestion and think it would be the best. though an alternative is just nerfing its damage to 25% of its current damage could work also. this means even though it always crits its doing 1/4 of the current damage. Slower classes usually have higher weapon damage which offsets this.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    PVE MOB DAMAGE

    No. Why would it be again in favor of the lowest of the lowest common denominator? Dungeons are doable and you don't need that much CC in T1s. Lower damage and all the challenge will be gone. Again. No thank you.

    Also you're completely wrong about the DC infinite AP bug, it's the virtuous feat, "gift of haste" it has no ICD, several gifts of haste may stack if you have several virtous DCs, which proves that you know little about the game, sadly. So I suggest you try to adapt to solve issue #1 before asking for that kind of change. Thank you. :)
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    diogene0 wrote: »
    No. Why would it be again in favor of the lowest of the lowest common denominator? Dungeons are doable and you don't need that much CC in T1s. Lower damage and all the challenge will be gone. Again. No thank you.

    Also you're completely wrong about the DC infinite AP bug, it's the virtuous feat, "gift of haste" it has no ICD, several gifts of haste may stack if you have several virtous DCs, which proves that you know little about the game, sadly. So I suggest you try to adapt to solve issue #1 before asking for that kind of change. Thank you. :)

    So its perfectly okay for "unavoidable" Attacks to hit over 200k damage? Remember not every class in the game has an actual dodge mechanic. some just gain a little DR (warlock/GWF). It's great that the difficulty cap has increased, but we have to take into account all classes. not just some, generic adds should not be able to 1 shot people.

    Why do you have such an "I'm amazing and your trash" approach to your post. If he's wrong, dont be condescending, just bring up your own point in a way that doesn't look passive aggressive or like you're trying to incite conflict, Here's an example
    "In regards to the DC Infinite AP bug, I think It might actually be caused by "Insert reason here"

    See? Isn't that much more polite and friendly?

    Anyway. the explanation you have given doesn't explain how they can refill in seconds in PvP with just 1 DC. and if this is how its working, It's too powerful and needs an ICD of a few seconds. Based on the OP's example. I think possibly it is reapplying on every tick of the DOT. because I cant think of another way that 1 DC would fill someone in seconds otherwise even with 3 HW and 2 other HoT's thats only 25%. (imagine a paladin who can perma Heroism / Spam divine judgement , or a CW spamming Sing because of his DC ally, Sounds a bit OP ) need a test of this. Might be able to get one done tonight and make a video.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rversant wrote: »
    Anyway. the explanation you have given doesn't explain how they can refill in seconds in PvP with just 1 DC. and if this is how its working, It's too powerful and needs an ICD of a few seconds. Based on the OP's example. I think possibly it is reapplying on every tick of the DOT. because I cant think of another way that 1 DC would fill someone in seconds otherwise even with 3 HW and 2 other HoT's thats only 25%. (imagine a paladin who can perma Heroism / Spam divine judgement , or a CW spamming Sing because of his DC ally, Sounds a bit OP ) need a test of this. Might be able to get one done tonight and make a video.

    I don't even think it's triggered by every tick of heals over time. It could be that but with divine fortune rank 4, and the divinity gain feats, it's very, very easy to spam divine encounters as if it were at-wills, especially with bastion. Not that bastion needs a nerf or that divinity gains needs to be lower (having done T2s, i can tell you that you NEED that much healing), but gift of haste does need an ICD (something like 15s or so) to make it on par with the rest of the feats. It shouldn't stack either when there are different clerics around you.
    rversant wrote: »
    So its perfectly okay for "unavoidable" Attacks to hit over 200k damage? Remember not every class in the game has an actual dodge mechanic. some just gain a little DR (warlock/GWF). It's great that the difficulty cap has increased, but we have to take into account all classes. not just some, generic adds should not be able to 1 shot people.

    It's perfectly OK if the support team (DC, GF, HR) uses the right builds and spells. Because then it's not a one-shot hit and the cleric has enough time to put the GWF back to full HP with a few divine encounters.
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    They could just change the set bonus in to something more predictable like + 2-3 to all stats (str,dex, wis, etc)
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    diogene0 wrote: »
    It's already possible to turn a 300k hit into a 50-60k one already. Proof: my team did it in grey wold den.

    I may add some figures to that assessment: As a DC I did more damage than healing and we made it to the final boss and tried to kill it 6-7 times. IIRC top damage was the GWF with 200M damage, I did 25M damage and healed for 20M. And I was the only healer. My only damage spell was divine glow. For 2h30 of dungeon delving that's really not a lot of healing.

    So the impossible to tank damage is a myth. The truth is that no one tried yet what we tried, ie stacking several layers of mitigation, damage reduction, and different defensive stuff which isn't related to hit points and DR. But it is completely doable. You people are so obsessed with DR and armor class that you forget there are many, many spells adding extra damage mitigation, allowing anyone to go way beyond the mythical 80% DR cap.

    So a GWF is not allowed to tank? I didnt realize that was no in their description since you are telling us that you require a GF+DC in order to play a GWF....

    Also with a DC, their buffs like AS are not 100% uptime. So your really only now looking at a GF with KV on that can "buff" the party by splitting damage with the group which doesnt count as "DR buff" BTW.

    Also, I already KNOW what you are proposing and I never said you CANT do these dungeons but its HOW you are required to do them.

    A GF "tanking" who is forced to hide behind shield with KV up while the CW CCs the entire group of mobs doesnt count as "tanking" IMO, he is basically just a buff bot.

    So in your world there is NO room for:
    A Tank GWF (Sentinel)
    Or a DPS Conq GF
    or a DPS DC

    I can go on...

    As ZACAZU said below. Defender Description:

    "Defenders take a lot of damage, mark targets and protect the rest of the party. If enemies they target try to attack another member of the party the defender will attack to stun, damage or taunt enemies to protect their companions."

    BUt it seems like the REAL implementation of the class in THIS game (and as you claim to like it)

    "Defenders buff the group. If an enemy tries to attack the defender, his control wizard will stun, damage, or control the enemy to protect the defender"

    A GF CANNOT "lunge into" a group of mobs and "tank". A GWF cannot take the first hit of damage without a DC AS down and even then, if the majority of the mobs are not controlled or are not attacking (trying to attack) a TR or HR or something, he just dies.

    I have been hit on my GWF for 50-60k, however thats ONE WHITE HIT with GF KV up. Guess what happens 1 second later? Hit AGAIN for 50-60k. DEAD.

    Ive DPSd in a group of mobs as well and I am Destroyer and DO deal good DPS. Guess what happens if there is a break in "control" and because I am dealing good damage... The mob turns to me and hits me for 300k+. Now IF DC AS is down and IF the GF is using KV, then yes that 1 hit turns into 50-60k. What if AS is NOT down? Im dead.


    A Melee DPS class has no way to survive, let alone tank if he wants to tank spec.


    Again, noone said it was NOT possible. Its just that it requires X type of group who are X type of builds who use X type of encounters.

    I am ALL FOR it being hard... Look there were people who LOVED the Diablo 3 insane difficulty. They were called wizards because it was the EXACT SAME ISSUE. Melee classes were screwed because the mobs dealt too much damage. The ranged Wizards loved it because only they could run the content by damage and kiting and controlling enemies.

    We see the same thing now in Neverwinter. Melee classes are worthless unless they have massive buffs OR you can just take more CWs who can DPS and control everything.

    I DO think PVE should be hard. But I DONT think Hard = "You MUST play this way with this group with these encounters". Hard can still mean difficult mobs, heck id like to see MORE control immune mobs - now THAT is TRULY "hard" content because you are REQUIRED to have a tank.

    However as it stands right now, 90%+ of the mobs are controllable, making CW mandatory and since they deal insane damage (even netted down with DR to 50-60k a hit) you PROVE the point that the tank is NOT tanking! Because even he cant take more than about 3 of those hits so if he has agro on all 5 mobs he insta-dies!
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    diogene0,

    Double posting since your saying the same thing in both threads.

    But Neverwinter PVE dungeons are EXACTLY like D3 Inferno was upon release. Only certain classes or groups could complete it. Certain classes like the Barbarians were just flat out gimped because they couldnt take the damage. Nerfing the PVE damage didnt make it any easier for the ranged/dps classes that COULD already do it, but it DID make it doable for the Barbarians...

    Here is one persons quote and I think it rings true here:

    "Oh for !@#$'s sake, even if inferno IS beatable with ANY kind of build, do you seriously think it's GOOD hard and not LAME hard?
    The difficulty of Diablo 3 is just LAME, it's not really hard it's just gimped. It's not fun or rewarding to get past a tough area, it just feels like "oh, I FINALLY managed to beat this broken area...".
    It feels like we gotta find cracks in the system to get past broken combinations of monsters.
    There's no ingenuity in the combinations, abilities or what the game requires you to do/achieve/think of to overcome the obstacles.
    Diablo 3 is a broken game, it's not a hard game."

    Neverwinter is a broken game not a hard game. There is a big difference....
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Oh there's peeps there but that was pretty funny. I don't want say exactly what the bugs are because saying hastening light in a dc offhand causes crazy ap for example makes it more widespread but someone should look at the new cw feats and ask questions about does this reduce cooldowns it shouldn't reduce and can I use a certain transcendent enchant to set up a mini tyrannical threat effect that lasts as long as mobs are standing. Maybe its inentional but I doubt it.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    So a GWF is not allowed to tank? I didnt realize that was no in their description since you are telling us that you require a GF+DC in order to play a GWF....

    Also with a DC, their buffs like AS are not 100% uptime. So your really only now looking at a GF with KV on that can "buff" the party by splitting damage with the group which doesnt count as "DR buff" BTW.

    Also, I already KNOW what you are proposing and I never said you CANT do these dungeons but its HOW you are required to do them.

    A GF "tanking" who is forced to hide behind shield with KV up while the CW CCs the entire group of mobs doesnt count as "tanking" IMO, he is basically just a buff bot.

    So in your world there is NO room for:
    A Tank GWF (Sentinel)
    Or a DPS Conq GF
    or a DPS DC

    I can go on...

    As ZACAZU said below. Defender Description:

    "Defenders take a lot of damage, mark targets and protect the rest of the party. If enemies they target try to attack another member of the party the defender will attack to stun, damage or taunt enemies to protect their companions."

    BUt it seems like the REAL implementation of the class in THIS game (and as you claim to like it)

    "Defenders buff the group. If an enemy tries to attack the defender, his control wizard will stun, damage, or control the enemy to protect the defender"

    A GF CANNOT "lunge into" a group of mobs and "tank". A GWF cannot take the first hit of damage without a DC AS down and even then, if the majority of the mobs are not controlled or are not attacking (trying to attack) a TR or HR or something, he just dies.

    I have been hit on my GWF for 50-60k, however thats ONE WHITE HIT with GF KV up. Guess what happens 1 second later? Hit AGAIN for 50-60k. DEAD.

    Ive DPSd in a group of mobs as well and I am Destroyer and DO deal good DPS. Guess what happens if there is a break in "control" and because I am dealing good damage... The mob turns to me and hits me for 300k+. Now IF DC AS is down and IF the GF is using KV, then yes that 1 hit turns into 50-60k. What if AS is NOT down? Im dead.


    A Melee DPS class has no way to survive, let alone tank if he wants to tank spec.


    Again, noone said it was NOT possible. Its just that it requires X type of group who are X type of builds who use X type of encounters.

    I am ALL FOR it being hard... Look there were people who LOVED the Diablo 3 insane difficulty. They were called wizards because it was the EXACT SAME ISSUE. Melee classes were screwed because the mobs dealt too much damage. The ranged Wizards loved it because only they could run the content by damage and kiting and controlling enemies.

    We see the same thing now in Neverwinter. Melee classes are worthless unless they have massive buffs OR you can just take more CWs who can DPS and control everything.

    I DO think PVE should be hard. But I DONT think Hard = "You MUST play this way with this group with these encounters". Hard can still mean difficult mobs, heck id like to see MORE control immune mobs - now THAT is TRULY "hard" content because you are REQUIRED to have a tank.

    However as it stands right now, 90%+ of the mobs are controllable, making CW mandatory and since they deal insane damage (even netted down with DR to 50-60k a hit) you PROVE the point that the tank is NOT tanking! Because even he cant take more than about 3 of those hits so if he has agro on all 5 mobs he insta-dies!

    Funny thing i lvl my prot pala to 70 have T1 set on him i have 40% dr 120k hp around 100k temp hp +shift Tactical Zone of Sanctuary +60% more dr + 10% from Divine Call + 80 % from Divine Protector and scorpion just hit on me 5 millon dmg mignated to 695k wtf....

    This is not difficulty its a pure .......


    Someway T1 T2 need to be adjusted to resonable for warriors tanks no one can heal soo much or mignate soo much not even GF.

    But if you think T1 or T2 is hard get a DC and try out Esot the fun part of the game begins there ....

    Behold mighty Garakas one shoting even Tiamat all five head .
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • tantivetyrelltantivetyrell Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The difficulty in the mobs should not be in the amount of damage they do, it should be in their powers. The biggest thing wich keeps a party active and on their toes, and ruining rotations is by introducing more CC attacks from mobs into players.

    Enemy group Synergy.

    The Cult of the Dragon mobs had wonderful synergy in mob difficulty just being a low level. Nasty Ranger attacks, Twirling Great Weapon Fighters which would push you away and could freeze you if you didn't look out, trash mobs which suddenly become hulking badasses because of a potion, if you didn't prevent them from drinking it.
    That is the kind of difficulty devs should focus on.
    Red caps that heal their allies, that black summon creature from red wizards which steal AP. Anyone remember the Icewolves in Ice Spire Peak? Their nasty grabbing bites are something to be reckoned with for an open world mob.
    Those hulking types which pull you in with Epic Dreadvault fight, those make things tense. Especially if you're forced to fight them near edges.

    Champions Online, Cryptics earlier title had enemies with much more crowd control attacks versus a player, and could easily ruin your day.

    It is okay if they hit hard, but if everything one shots it leaves out others classes. More CC on the players, ruin their rotations. A few elite badasses in group mobs which don't get CC'd by players that keep on going whilst it's allies are locked down.
  • essentiessenti Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The difficulty in the mobs should not be in the amount of damage they do, it should be in their powers. The biggest thing wich keeps a party active and on their toes, and ruining rotations is by introducing more CC attacks from mobs into players.

    Enemy group Synergy.

    The Cult of the Dragon mobs had wonderful synergy in mob difficulty just being a low level. Nasty Ranger attacks, Twirling Great Weapon Fighters which would push you away and could freeze you if you didn't look out, trash mobs which suddenly become hulking badasses because of a potion, if you didn't prevent them from drinking it.
    That is the kind of difficulty devs should focus on.
    Red caps that heal their allies, that black summon creature from red wizards which steal AP. Anyone remember the Icewolves in Ice Spire Peak? Their nasty grabbing bites are something to be reckoned with for an open world mob.
    Those hulking types which pull you in with Epic Dreadvault fight, those make things tense. Especially if you're forced to fight them near edges.

    Champions Online, Cryptics earlier title had enemies with much more crowd control attacks versus a player, and could easily ruin your day.

    It is okay if they hit hard, but if everything one shots it leaves out others classes. More CC on the players, ruin their rotations. A few elite badasses in group mobs which don't get CC'd by players that keep on going whilst it's allies are locked down.

    Absolutely this! Although I have no doubt that the changes in mod 6 took a lot of work, increasing damage and defenses on mobs is an absolutely lazy solution to the problem. Make the mob's abilities interact with each other, give the mobs some rotations to use on players!
    Campaign - Trail of the Imaskarcana (NWS-DMFG77QOF)
    • A Mere Expedition! (NW-DIAAPG3S4)
    • Work In Progress on Part 2
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    essenti wrote: »
    Absolutely this! Although I have no doubt that the changes in mod 6 took a lot of work, increasing damage and defenses on mobs is an absolutely lazy solution to the problem. Make the mob's abilities interact with each other, give the mobs some rotations to use on players!

    I dont know how much work it would be, but I would imagine a VERY cool solution would be to separate mobs into four categories.

    1) CC Immune Mobs
    2) Physical Damage Immune Mobs
    3) NON-Physical Damage Immune Mobs
    4) REGULAR Mobs

    Current the dungeons are basically 5-10% of #1 and 90-95% of #4.

    Making MORE CC immune mobs, forces groups to rely MORE on "tanks and healers". Forcing Physical immune mobs makes you HAVE to take non-physical classes like DPS DC, SW, CW, Paladin etc.

    Making NON-Physical Immune mobs forces classes like HR/TR/GF/GWF to be of value.

    Now EACH of the classes performs a roll and I will GUARANTEE this is much more difficult and requires much more teamwork than the current dungeons.

    Id say something like:

    1) 25% - CC immune mobs.
    2) 15% - Physical Immune Mobs
    3) 15% NON-Physical Immune mobs (can only be hurt by physical damage)
    4) 45% regular mobs.

    This would make for MUCH more balanced dungeon design.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I would ADD though, ALL of this starts with a reduction of PVE mob damage to reasonable levels.

    THEN if you want, the NEXT step could even be to make more CC immune or resistant mobs.. Even to a 50-50 level would make the dungeons MUCH more difficult.
  • essentiessenti Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    I dont know how much work it would be, but I would imagine a VERY cool solution would be to separate mobs into four categories.

    1) CC Immune Mobs
    2) Physical Damage Immune Mobs
    3) NON-Physical Damage Immune Mobs
    4) REGULAR Mobs

    Current the dungeons are basically 5-10% of #1 and 90-95% of #4.

    Making MORE CC immune mobs, forces groups to rely MORE on "tanks and healers". Forcing Physical immune mobs makes you HAVE to take non-physical classes like DPS DC, SW, CW, Paladin etc.

    Making NON-Physical Immune mobs forces classes like HR/TR/GF/GWF to be of value.

    Now EACH of the classes performs a roll and I will GUARANTEE this is much more difficult and requires much more teamwork than the current dungeons.

    Id say something like:

    1) 25% - CC immune mobs.
    2) 15% - Physical Immune Mobs
    3) 15% NON-Physical Immune mobs (can only be hurt by physical damage)
    4) 45% regular mobs.

    This would make for MUCH more balanced dungeon design.
    This is a cool idea, although completely immune is a little too strong, just highly resistant would be better.

    It makes me wonder why Cryptic did not retain the four different defenses from 4e mechanics in stronger fashion. It was similar to what you have above:

    Willpower = CC defense
    Reflex = AoE defense
    Fortitude = Forced Movement and Poison/Disease Defense
    Armor Class = Normal Physical Defense

    4e used these to balance the difficulty of monsters and to enforce certain defense holes on PCs. While NWO has these in spirit, they are abstracted away to a really strange degree.
    Campaign - Trail of the Imaskarcana (NWS-DMFG77QOF)
    • A Mere Expedition! (NW-DIAAPG3S4)
    • Work In Progress on Part 2
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    essenti wrote: »
    This is a cool idea, although completely immune is a little too strong, just highly resistant would be better.

    It makes me wonder why Cryptic did not retain the four different defenses from 4e mechanics in stronger fashion. It was similar to what you have above:

    Willpower = CC defense
    Reflex = AoE defense
    Fortitude = Forced Movement and Poison/Disease Defense
    Armor Class = Normal Physical Defense

    4e used these to balance the difficulty of monsters and to enforce certain defense holes on PCs. While NWO has these in spirit, they are abstracted away to a really strange degree.

    Yeah you could do resistance, either or... I like Immune because its just flat out easier. You deal zero damage to them etc.


    And yes I agree on that as well. CC defense, AoE defense, etc... Basically similar to what I said above.


    I think Step 1) reduce PVE DAMAGE mobs deal then Step 2) Make MORE CC Immune or Resistance Mobs.

    Atleast this would be a START to REQUIRE tanks and group mechanics. As of right now its seems an optimal group is just anyone with a DC/CW where the DC gives infinite dailies, CW infinitely controls mobs over and over. Thanks to StormSpell and EOTS the CW can also do crazy good damage without having to change up the rotation.
  • vteasyvteasy Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Lostmouth set, if reworked, should have no cooldown but damage should be toned down. If you add 5 sec cooldown it would favor GWF (nice big procs).

    Some others others:
    1. Hidden daggers bug
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?889031-GWF-damage-bug
    2. Feytouched enchantment. Not even going into this on here. Just look at every geared GWF
    3. GWF double mark.
    4. CW's Disintegrate, does crazy damage and can be put on 4.5 sec cool down

    May just start a separate thread to highlight these though
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    vteasy wrote: »
    Lostmouth set, if reworked, should have no cooldown but damage should be toned down. If you add 5 sec cooldown it would favor GWF (nice big procs).

    Some others others:
    1. Hidden daggers bug
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?889031-GWF-damage-bug
    2. Feytouched enchantment. Not even going into this on here. Just look at every geared GWF
    3. GWF double mark.
    4. CW's Disintegrate, does crazy damage and can be put on 4.5 sec cool down

    May just start a separate thread to highlight these though

    If its NOT given a cooldown then it only favors classes that can crit more like TR/CW. The GWF damage bonuses is an entirely different issue that as a class we have been TRYING to get rid of. So thats why I HIGHLY dislike this not having an ICD. It makes it FAR too good for TR/CW.

    1) Hidden Daggers actually isnt bugged it just stacks. Again GWFs asked to NOT have MORE stacking damage bonus. Whats funny is it takes this ******ED type of +dmg bonuses in order for GWFs to keep up with other classes. Its a mandatory encounter we have now and it has the WORST animation. Id GLADLY give this up AND most of our +dmg bonuses if they just feaking raised our BASE damage. A GF and GWF both naked in PE, the GF shares the same encounters as GWF and the GFs is nearly 50% HIGHER. Why is that? because GWFs get a bajillion damage stacks to make up the difference. Why not increase the base and remove all this stupid BS.

    Daggers gives 40% dmg bonus for 8 seconds. Stacks up to 3x so 120% dmg bonus however you will use 4 seconds just casting it 3x. But anyways its just a dumb mechanic that unfortunately GWFs NEED due to their current state. DEVs have already said this is WAI too which is dumb because they "like where GWFs are at atm".

    2) Feytouched is actually ALSO WAI. The ONLY thing I think that it MAY not supposed to be doing is when it AoE procs it gives back the damage bonus 3x. So its 18%*3 damage bonus. So that could be toned down. But it also has a liability of glitching and then ALL your damage hits for 0 for a while too... so its not without its bugs.

    3) GWF double mark has gone since noone uses Daring Shout or Intimidation anymore. So this is kinda a moot point atleast for now.

    4) Disintegrate - Not sure I dont play a CW so Ill take your word for it.
  • doidlokodoidloko Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    the most important and urgent is Seal of Triumph !
    some players have this new set and the anothers cant have.
    pvp 120k hp vs 20 / 30k hp and quests and dungeons its impossible
  • edited April 2015
    This content has been removed.
Sign In or Register to comment.