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GWF in Mod 6 - Opinions
rversant
Member Posts: 896 Arc User
Thought It'd be good to start a discussion thread for our class to discuss our experiences so far in mod 6.
My observations: - 2295 Ilvl
Respecced a bit more into Destroyer, like the old build we used to have. Using Roar/Fls/IBS at the moment (roar for aoe dmg in PvE), but will swap too Hidden Daggers when I unlock it, even though its animation looks comical and the whole skill does not fit the class. I might go into Swordmaster, but I just cant bear to lose my only gapcloser that isnt a daily.
The change to unstoppable Temp HP is really handy, Although when fighting harder enemies they can still break through it and damage your HP. it does feel a lot more defensive at the current level, I'm not sure how it'll hold up at 70 though. The damage increase on at-wills is very nice. They feel powerful now and it suits our weapon. The buff on 23/04 will be nice also but with DR dropping by a fair bit at 70 I'm not sure how great it will be. especially with the one hit kill damage we are currently subject too.
Speaking of At-wills, I feel like the focus is shifting more towards At-Will damage, and much less towards encounter damage, It'd be nice to have our more Utility/mobility based encounters like Punishing charge and mighty leap be more effective, I suggested in preview that Mighty leap have a charge based system (+1 charge a level) or punishing charge be targetted, have longer range and have an interrupt or ministun of some sort for a short time on hit.
I don't like how much survivability drops from 60-70. every level you gain you LOSE a decent chunk of DR / Crit / Deflect / Damage. it feels counterproductive.
We still have pretty bad class features. Bravery is amazing, compared to any of the other survivability ones And for destroyer you basically HAVE to have destroyer slotted (and for Sentinel you would usually want weapon master, however sentinel has been nerfed into almost uselessness). this really limits our builds. We need our other class features to be brought up to the same kind of level as the paladins auras, CW's SS/EoTs, etc.
Noticing in PVP and in PvE content with other players. our at-wills definitely hit like a truck, However our overall actual damage is still far below an equally geared other class specced for DPS. While I may be dealing huge at-will hits. my encounter damage is hilariously lower than other people I know with less power, and less gear.
I specced into deep gash for a bit to try it out, thinking it would be better DoT now that power can get much higher, only to notice that at 13k power my DoT is only about 500 a second. The dot cannot stack or crit and can be mitigated, so it'd be reasonable to make it stronger again. Even if it was twice as powerful, unless you Fully stacked power on everything you'd at best have a 2k dot per second for 6 seconds that doesnt stack. 12,000 mitigatable damage out of your 100k+ hp pool for a BiS is pretty high but there's much higher in the game that don't rely on critting.
I haven't tested instigator much yet, but I will when I get the time. I feel with extremely high crit instigator/SM might be worth trying due to the stun/prone from crits behind interaction with WMS. Could be fun.
Sentinel is a joke, I barely see a point to use this spec now that it doesnt deal damage, it still doesn't tank well either, so if it's meant to be low damage/high survivability, its not there yet. I'm sure at 70 it'll be even worse as you'll be lucky to have 30% base DR and 20% deflect unless you sacrifice all damage stats and just meatshield, but then even with the increased threat gain you wont hold aggro.
Who else has been playing their GWF and have experiences they want too share?
My observations: - 2295 Ilvl
Respecced a bit more into Destroyer, like the old build we used to have. Using Roar/Fls/IBS at the moment (roar for aoe dmg in PvE), but will swap too Hidden Daggers when I unlock it, even though its animation looks comical and the whole skill does not fit the class. I might go into Swordmaster, but I just cant bear to lose my only gapcloser that isnt a daily.
The change to unstoppable Temp HP is really handy, Although when fighting harder enemies they can still break through it and damage your HP. it does feel a lot more defensive at the current level, I'm not sure how it'll hold up at 70 though. The damage increase on at-wills is very nice. They feel powerful now and it suits our weapon. The buff on 23/04 will be nice also but with DR dropping by a fair bit at 70 I'm not sure how great it will be. especially with the one hit kill damage we are currently subject too.
Speaking of At-wills, I feel like the focus is shifting more towards At-Will damage, and much less towards encounter damage, It'd be nice to have our more Utility/mobility based encounters like Punishing charge and mighty leap be more effective, I suggested in preview that Mighty leap have a charge based system (+1 charge a level) or punishing charge be targetted, have longer range and have an interrupt or ministun of some sort for a short time on hit.
I don't like how much survivability drops from 60-70. every level you gain you LOSE a decent chunk of DR / Crit / Deflect / Damage. it feels counterproductive.
We still have pretty bad class features. Bravery is amazing, compared to any of the other survivability ones And for destroyer you basically HAVE to have destroyer slotted (and for Sentinel you would usually want weapon master, however sentinel has been nerfed into almost uselessness). this really limits our builds. We need our other class features to be brought up to the same kind of level as the paladins auras, CW's SS/EoTs, etc.
Noticing in PVP and in PvE content with other players. our at-wills definitely hit like a truck, However our overall actual damage is still far below an equally geared other class specced for DPS. While I may be dealing huge at-will hits. my encounter damage is hilariously lower than other people I know with less power, and less gear.
I specced into deep gash for a bit to try it out, thinking it would be better DoT now that power can get much higher, only to notice that at 13k power my DoT is only about 500 a second. The dot cannot stack or crit and can be mitigated, so it'd be reasonable to make it stronger again. Even if it was twice as powerful, unless you Fully stacked power on everything you'd at best have a 2k dot per second for 6 seconds that doesnt stack. 12,000 mitigatable damage out of your 100k+ hp pool for a BiS is pretty high but there's much higher in the game that don't rely on critting.
I haven't tested instigator much yet, but I will when I get the time. I feel with extremely high crit instigator/SM might be worth trying due to the stun/prone from crits behind interaction with WMS. Could be fun.
Sentinel is a joke, I barely see a point to use this spec now that it doesnt deal damage, it still doesn't tank well either, so if it's meant to be low damage/high survivability, its not there yet. I'm sure at 70 it'll be even worse as you'll be lucky to have 30% base DR and 20% deflect unless you sacrifice all damage stats and just meatshield, but then even with the increased threat gain you wont hold aggro.
Who else has been playing their GWF and have experiences they want too share?
People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Post edited by Unknown User on
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...the entire class needs a new, "modern" redesign.
ASAP.
To say nothing of content on thread........ .. .....
Get weird gwf's, enchants and Stat curves have given us choices we never had before. We can still op
PD: any suggestions for a pvp build?
You answered your own question; summed your build up in 10 letters. Read your feats carefully, considering how you want to play, and choose from that. I'm pumped for what I put together through testing and reading, I would be happy to offer advice on where to test for what desired result, but would never deprive you the opportunity to play your chosen class by giving you the fruit of my labor. Want cookie cutter op? Roll TR ftw
Some base stats and offensive/defensive %: Power 19k+, CC 28.5%, Res. ignored 46%, dmg reduce 28.5% /with 6500 defense/, 91k HP
Note: I was totally maxed at M5 ...
So first pain in the a$$ - determination is building much more slower. I have no idea how is now calculated, how much determination you fill, per dmg taken or per dmg output, but for example, I take 120k dmg, reducing 50% and build 1/6 of the determination bar / needed to activate unstoppable, not to fill the entire bar/. Doing dmg is same - 120k output dmg, fills 1/6 of the bar ... I think something is wrong with that!
Not to say tt output dmg is total joke. In the dungeons with a/m res. ignore, I deal some funny numbers like 4k, 5k /with Destroyer as class feature/ ... I played with a friend dps DC, and he did little bit less dmg than me in Paingiver chart ...
One more thing, 100k HP is nothing at reworked dungeons. Even with unstoppable and sprinting, you take dmg from mobs as hell. With low chance of LS/ 10%/ and considering, that you have to be close to the enemies, survivability of GWF is another joke.
Note that there is not a huge difference btw blue gear with item lvl 130 and purple gear with item lvl 135.
I have only one question: Is this really a FIGHTER or just a training dummy for the mobs.
Will try today SM/Destroyer, but it will be the same imo ...
Edit: Tried SM/Destroyer ... even worse.
With Mighty blade feat, at least, FLS worked little bit fine at IV. Not to say that FLS give you more control and this control provides you better survivability in the dungeons.
For trash mobs clearing, when leveling and dealing quests/dailies, FLS + Hidden daggers works better than SM single target encounters ...
Edit 2: I noticed that Weapon master do NOT stack at level 4 ... Really ... -15% CC. Now I understand why crits are so rare.
However, unless anybody finds a way how you can tank melee attacks of 50-80k as GWF you will repeatedly die.
No GWF is not the highest DD per se. SM destroyer is. Instigator and Sentinel and Iron Vanguard paragon now suck *** at everything they do.
is that a lot of dmg? i have only been playing the game for 3 days only so i don't know how much tanks do
No. I think that he's saying that it doesn't matter if one particular archetype (Swordmaster Destroyer) GWF has amazing damage, it dies so fast to all of the damage melees take in high level dungeons that it won't end up doing more damage than a (low damage) tank: because it will be dead so much.
If I were starting out fresh, I'd go CW. They seem solid for PVE in every module so far. If you really want to avoid that for flavour reasons, then possibly TR. GWF seem reasonable to me but I'm not yet 70. However, in previous modules GWF have been more reliant on being geared up than any other class (possibly because weapon damage is so important to their abilities). Unless you're planning on throwing money at the game, or you have a lot of free time to grind in, I'd avoid again.
Bear in mind that right after a new module hits everyone is complaining that they've been nerfed, except the new class.
i saw tanks doing very good in tanking mobs, holding aggro very very easy, in case of you don´t pull the trash first it should be no problem for you to beat the mob, or did you go without a tank?
second: i met enough GWF in leveling zone 68-70, my warlock was ripped 10 times more and faster than these guys, actually they just run into a group of HE encounter (the one with the slaads- if anyone knows what i mean) and survived really long! lol agianst 20 slaads (epic version), can´t say i could do same, cause i die in 2 seconds
third: i met some ugly GWF in PVP yesterday and i can say, there is not much to complain about, he ripped us 1, 2 or even 3 vs him, can´t say which path or specc, would like to know myself because i want to level my GWF next to 70
and he definitly had no probelms with his determination bar ! so look at your feats you chose, probabaly you forgot some feats to take?
all in all , I will make my personal experiences in time, but from what i see in PVE and face in PVP I can´t understand what you talk about
in case of dealing no damage by lieing dead on the ground, i only would say: you forgot something very important in mod 6 (livesteal) and I am sure most cases are L2P-/adapting-issues
most ppl build their chars in times of mod 5 -> easy mode, no investment into defence
actual i am very curious about palying GWF in PVE/PVP cause it looks not that bad you say , not at all, atm I would say GWF is a strong class
can anyone tell me what would be best option for PVP, atm i am IV destroyer, thy
dont even think about doing any damage as a gwf before you get you destroyer paragon capstone(lvl 55? ) it alone increases gwf dmg by 50%, overall full stacks increase gwf dmg by some 200%, at low levels damage is pathetic, many ppl tried to tell cryptic but did they listen ?
better to play a class that you like, playing FotM class that you dont like is boring
though its bad that we have lost our best guide writers to the dark side(darn u warlocks) it will be harder to new gwf to learn, hopefully well get some guide
can´t say anything about paladins, but everyone dies from trashmobs in "some parts"
and imo if stacking enough livesteal you can reduce these moment a lot
what i can say for sure is: i went PVP (new PVP set-1800 tenacity) and faced some GWF ...... some builds are unkillable, can easily 3 vs 1, stomp CW, WL, DC, TR´s in a row even when they don´t abuse obvious bugs like ferocious reaction again multiprocing and T Bloodtheft that oneshots classes who dare to put dot on target (HP 80k+ instant dead <1 second)
two TR´s in my team, just stayed in stealth and thow daggers, did not dare to attack out of stealth
cryptic is not able to find a balance for this class , not in this life, never
you cant compare gwf to paladin, its like comparing chainsaw and a pillow, gwf does good dps, has no survivability, paladin has no damage whatsoever(solo content), get some 15%+ life steal on gwf and just punch everything with your beard til the die
on gwf i can progress 2 maps at same time simply because i run out of quests in first 30 minutes on one, on pala i tried picking quests that avoid combat simply because it takes so long
But if somone find a way not to die every 2 sec share it cuz even after 23 th patch " determinaton before DR" we will still die from 1 hit .
I agree with schietindebux i play paladin now cuz somtimes i can out dps GWF cuz they are sitting on campfire.
_Why paladin cuz i dont like CW in my eyes ranged class are coward playstyle.
DPS: Subpar as a DPS class, just like mod 5, but more squishy.
Tanking: No longer an option for GWF. Please try it and see if you can get better results than I. We can't "dodge tank" the big hits, and don't have the ability to block. All we can do is try to take the hit, and the T1 gear we get doesn't mitigate enough damage, even with the tanking set and against T1 mobs. Sent unstoppable is the only way to survive a boss hit (sometimes), and that's not up 100% of the time. Admittedly, I did not have the R10+ enchantments to stack hitpoints (which has a natural synergy with unstoppable) but at 90k HP, I got annihilated when I tried to tank. It was embarrassing.
What we really need is more passive mitigation, like A LOT more, 20-30%, and tanks need more HP on their gear than other classes. Warrior's courage only helps below 50% health, and sitting at 50% health is a recipe for getting 1 shot. Make it a constant passive and it might be useful.
Unstoppable change is nice, same with the at-will buffs, but not enough.
Perhaps when the broken abilities are fixed, it'll be different, but for right now, all I have to say is... Thank you Cryptic for once again destroying the class.
Jo'dan
level 70 GWF
tell us your path and tell me your lifesteal in percent please
sentinel is no option as written lots of times, redicules damage from a tank spec with intimidation-procs is history, btw GWF can´t tank .
I play IV destroyer, determinationbar is nearly allways up --> i use steadfast determination, Roar and the capstone, so i am running at least 50% of the time with unstoppable, and 50% damage buff is allways up !!
other classes die also a lot and believe me, my warlock is a poor saucage-no unstoppable- it is a big difference having 4% lifesteal and having 8%
so if you play sentinel (tanking path) the failure is --> no damage --> less determination, less selfheal
low lifesteal?--> in case of having only 3% lifesteal you get ripped all time
as i wrote above: GWF with the right build is near to invinceable in PVP, thats my impression from latest matches , and thats teh reason why i level my GWF atm (to got 70 hop into PVP and rip some buts
more mitigation, more determination ? (btw there are feads and other things to pump determination, tried out?)
so in case of playing with a char who has ugly stats, the wrong build and die all time just try something else before crying for more invincability !
and let me add something, I am a newbie GWF, trying to curse all targets (WL), clueless at the most thing, but i can read the feads and stats and di infomr myself a littel bit
Path is Swordmaster, lifesteal % is 13. (I even gave up the boon for crit severity to get an extra 3%).
I have seen that build of which you speak, in action, in PVP. I'm wondering what the trick is. I've got a decent set of level 70 PVP gear, and would like to try and duplicate those results.
When taking PVE, I ran roar, or daring shout, restoring strike, and IBS. Passives, typically warriors courage & steel defense (to capitalize on my 4% AP gain neck piece), though I did try steadfast determination. There is always the gap between unstoppables that causes problems. I can't see the lathander set making that much of a difference as the 10% mitigation from AC isn't exactly huge.
The only time I've effectively been able to tank is when I run with a cleric that uses their new AP gain passive ability, and I'm able to pop off a daily every 7 seconds. Then, I am literally, invulnerable. This does not require a sentinel build to pull off, so why bother with sentinel? The tankability of our class should not depend upon the synergy of another specific class using a specific ability.
Jo'dan
dafuq, no hidden daggers, weapon master and destroyer ? and you wonder why the dps is bad ?
IV has also a bonus of FLS, makes me want to rush gwf to 70 to check if its that bad, lvled pally 1st so the lack of damage doesnt cause me to kill myself
later it sure will get hard at last zone, but with warlock i did not perform any better
plays really fluent and smooth atm, warlock dies much more imo (full Black Ice gear, artifacts, compared to my trash GWF), actually i did not die at all
endzone with warlock i never tried soloing HE encounter for 5 ppl, to weak"
but i saw some GWF in the zone who did and who really had no problems surving in spite of me
one ran into ths slaad encounter" limbus" survived really long- i was two shottet in seconds, SB-Fury
-so no reason to cry
core problem to me seems the gain of determination, to max this i take as written above: steadfast determination (class feature) wich works quite good i think, Roar and the capstone from Destroyer , i have a healer compagnion, no augment no tank pet, cheap setup