Yes and yes .The only gwf's that are failing are the ones who've spent a boat load of ad and zen getting 14k in power and not adapting to the way it is now.Use to 26k gs GWF's could just spam cagi and ds with their intimidation , now you gotta work even more for your damage but the pay out is better . I don't pvp really but sooner or later people will start learning that weapon masters strike procs flanking manuevers then its over . Take all your old mmo mind builds and flush them down the toilet . gear score/stats are less relavent now than they were before , boons and anything that gives you a percentage is huge.I'd take a blink dog with 5% combat advantage damage over a 165ls/165 crit epic companion any day of the week .
GWF really need better stamina regeneration, maybe if they changed str to provide 3-4% stamina regen per point spend and removal of that 2-3 seconds delay from stamina regen would help.
There is a heroic feat that reduces it 15% , Stanima jewels can be crafted , boons increase it as well.
I respeced and even with the Elemental Fire weapon and knot at blue with rank 8 enchants, the Ethereal Armor set from Well of Dragons, surviveability as a solo in Sharandar, Dread, etc is somewhere below zero. Any place above the Fire Pit is a group activity unless you have 5 or 6 Legendary items, or are the Greatest player ever. Cryptic has ruined the game for solo GWF.
how much lifesteal and what path and what lev are you?
i play IV destroyer, using daring shout - 1. FLS/Daggers - 2. IBS + at will´s (3. sure strike 4. wicked strike) all deal about 20-25% from damage over all.
i can go sharandar and dread ring, having 5 boons, one blue compagnion (healer - heals me, give deflect buff for 4 sec, and 25% power buff priestess of sune)
lifesteal-actually 7% chance, solo all dungeon there class feature destroyer+ weapon master
the combination from daring shout (marks enemy)- unstoppable (20%damage buff+ 10 stacks -->50%) -daggers (10% damage buff)- wicked strike repeatedly- IBS/daggers is deadly , daily for soloing is slam
I have no problems like i had with warlock, other classes can´t do what GWF can
GWF its much more damage and much more fun atm than WL and when i die the only reason is that I was to slow in using unstoppable , the damage I deal, if buffed fully and fight last long enough, is abnorm, my warlock only can dream of, I am far from crying about warlock, but all GWF that cry about damage-solo dungeons and weakness of the class should go and play warlock to get in line again
char atm: 51k HP, 5k power, 2k arp and crit, 2,5k lifesteal, 2,7k DR, 2k deflect most of it blue lev 67 gear, weapon is dragon hellabard and dragon offhand, green lev 60 neck, pink lev 60 belt , having 3 blue artifacts slottet
In case you have problems i guess you should think about your damageencounter and your rotation a bit, can´t sy if your spec is bad...
warrior is the bomb, i think its the best solo class for hard, and really hard content, paladin being better at medium content, despite their lack of damage and only better than gwf because you can do it half asleep while gwfs have to be careful and can fail because of bad lack, and gwf(or some other class) being best on easy
warrior is the bomb, i think its the best solo class for hard, and really hard content, paladin being better at medium content, despite their lack of damage and only better than gwf because you can do it half asleep while gwfs have to be careful and can fail because of bad lack, and gwf(or some other class) being best on easy
ah thats no damage, nooo..., only lev 73 mobs with tons of hp melted in seconds, i even can´t think about doing the small HE in Icewinddale with warlock, dead meat in seconds...
the best from all this is he kills the mobs with an -->at will more or less <--using daring shout + daggers buffing the damage and than spin+at will thats all, easy peasy
as a pala i can do 5mans but it takes forever, during early preview as ~2000 ilvl GWF(probobably, didnt have item lvl then, was 18.5k gs) i did kenku 10man in spinward, dunno if the difficulty changed
warrior is the bomb, i think its the best solo class for hard, and really hard content, paladin being better at medium content, despite their lack of damage and only better than gwf because you can do it half asleep while gwfs have to be careful and can fail because of bad lack, and gwf(or some other class) being best on easy
- why ds are doing damage?
and yes... lvl 70 do a amazing damage for what i tested. but the class seens a little messed.
- why ds are doing damage?
and yes... lvl 70 do a amazing damage for what i tested. but the class seens a little messed.
i wanna grand fissure
in case of dealling abnorm>50% damage with "at wills", making encounter more like "buff spells" you are right, but i don´t see any problem in there, it´s quite a concept, shout-unstoppable-dagger at-will-at will-at will- IBS-daily
i don´t do anything else with warlock, but my encounter don´t buff my damage up to >200% or more taking only 3 points in feats (15% marking, 10 dagger, 20% unstoppable, 50% stacks from unstoppable, destroyer stacks 10%, weapon mastery +4,5 crit) and i am sure you have to multiplcate the singel buffs, not 15%+20%+....its more like xy x 1,15 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,5 x 1,2 x xy(crits)
tbh most of Warlocks encounter and feats are usless , i like playing GWF atm
no, no. daring shout are doing damage itself like if using intimidation. that is strange.
gwf lvl 70 DAMAGE are strong (messed, suspect, but strong) but you can see one thing: exist now a big gap between new players, intermediary (or lazy like me) and geared guys like lazza.
my ibs now can reach 250k or more (is bizarre in my opinion. balance the game is best than that. but i love big numbers and every player complain about you have a big weapon and have a inferior damage), lazza do 350k or more.
well, iam still need change my weapon.
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
So, is the Iron vanguard/Sentinel the best build for PvP?
I'm using it but sometimes I feel that I dont have the same survivability I had in mod 5.
Any thoughts?
I'm still Iv/Destroyer with some points in sentinel for the tier 3 sentinel DR feat. I havent done a full respec yet but I'll most likely be staying IV ( since even though Flourish is way better for damage, without a good lunge skill it'd be hard to land) and going High deflect for my defense. I feel that sentinel just doesn't have enough damage for PvP, and with a Negation + The tier 3 sentinel feat (which I can get as destroyer) once I take the inital shock damage my DR is high enough that I can tank people reasonably well while doing aceptable damage (lower than the top tier classes, but enough sustained that they cant face-tank me like they could in mod 5) ]
I ran through a leveling dungeon with some randoms, they seemed to have average gear for their level ( rank 5 enchants, normal weapon enchant, blues and greens), a Healing OP and a DPS ( I think ) warlock, I absolutely decimated them in damage, but this is understandable as I was probably 600-700 itemlevel above them.
I Wish that destroyer wasn't a class feature, and instead was a Passive part of the destroyer tree, so I could use Bravery + weaponmaster, or some other feature. it sucks because you're essentially forced into using the class feature if you go destro paragon, and Bravery is just too good for PVP to not use.
Having such heavy reliance on stacks is still annoying, damage basically ramps up for time. But when at full stacks (hard to maintain in PVP unless enemies are stupid or also melee) we do deal pretty great damage.
I'm still Iv/Destroyer with some points in sentinel for the tier 3 sentinel DR feat. I havent done a full respec yet but I'll most likely be staying IV ( since even though Flourish is way better for damage, without a good lunge skill it'd be hard to land) and going High deflect for my defense. I feel that sentinel just doesn't have enough damage for PvP, and with a Negation + The tier 3 sentinel feat (which I can get as destroyer) once I take the inital shock damage my DR is high enough that I can tank people reasonably well while doing aceptable damage (lower than the top tier classes, but enough sustained that they cant face-tank me like they could in mod 5) ]
I ran through a leveling dungeon with some randoms, they seemed to have average gear for their level ( rank 5 enchants, normal weapon enchant, blues and greens), a Healing OP and a DPS ( I think ) warlock, I absolutely decimated them in damage, but this is understandable as I was probably 600-700 itemlevel above them.
I Wish that destroyer wasn't a class feature, and instead was a Passive part of the destroyer tree, so I could use Bravery + weaponmaster, or some other feature. it sucks because you're essentially forced into using the class feature if you go destro paragon, and Bravery is just too good for PVP to not use.
Having such heavy reliance on stacks is still annoying, damage basically ramps up for time. But when at full stacks (hard to maintain in PVP unless enemies are stupid or also melee) we do deal pretty great damage.
Is it possible for you to show me your feats?
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited April 2015
I quit playing my 18K, IV Destroyer after finishing the WoD campaign (sans final boons). I first leveled my CW, then my Righteous DC. Then I dusted off the GWF, after seeing others out damage my CW so much. He's the only one who never died, 60-70. He never used a health pot until lvl 68, then only used 14 altogether. Most of those were due to falling off the Earth Nodes on SW. I have yet to put on any new gear.
My determination is almost always full. I'm doing a lot more damage. My survivability has increased. Granted, I haven't tried any dungeons yet, but so far, I'm loving the new GWF.
So, is the Iron vanguard/Sentinel the best build for PvP?
I'm using it but sometimes I feel that I dont have the same survivability I had in mod 5.
Any thoughts?
No way, mate. Destroyer deals up to 3 times more damage than sentinel due to Intimidation being nerfed to as low as at-will damage. As well as destroyer gets a lot more temporary hitpoints due to damage modifiers affecting how much you get. As well as they enter unstopable much faster than sentinels. Thus, destroyer deals both huge damage and tanks better than sentinel. Destroyer is the only playable build in both pvp and pve in mod 6.
I quit playing my 18K, IV Destroyer after finishing the WoD campaign (sans final boons). I first leveled my CW, then my Righteous DC. Then I dusted off the GWF, after seeing others out damage my CW so much. He's the only one who never died, 60-70. He never used a health pot until lvl 68, then only used 14 altogether. Most of those were due to falling off the Earth Nodes on SW. I have yet to put on any new gear.
My determination is almost always full. I'm doing a lot more damage. My survivability has increased. Granted, I haven't tried any dungeons yet, but so far, I'm loving the new GWF.
get into a tier 2 and see how long a melee class can survive.
@the devs
how much melee damage can you do when you cant get in melee range? mob standard attacks do 80k damage through a GWF's pitiful DR and deflect. something is wrong when you run out of the red and still get hit that is if you dash doesnt just rubberband you back in it anyway. the delay between you hit shift and start to run is wonky too sometimes its dead on and some times it s hit shift......... ok i ma gonna run....right ... about .... NOW!
YOU CANT ASK A MELEE CLASS TO LEARN TO DODGE ATTACKS WHEN THAT CLASS HAS NO WORKING DODGE THIS GOES FOR SW TOO MAKE IT A DASH LIKE ABLILTY WITH THE IMMUNITY FRAMES OF OTHER CLASSES
we dealt with our sprint because we had the DR to soke up a hit or used unstoppable as sort of a pseudo dodge but now you want us to play like we have one well you need to give us one then...
I like the idea of where you wanna go with GWF I do we just need some way to avoid a hit because increased dr when sprinting isnt cutting it
by the way,,, i find the place that coming so much damage. 1/3 of the class base damage is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bug.
the "solid damage" of GC, that made he stop to work the class even have the worsts powers/defensive tools/utilitary of all the classes is a bug alread reported.
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited April 2015
get into a tier 2 and see how long a melee class can survive
I was curious if it is now possible to play a GWF as a tank but it still has its main flaw: easy one-shot target.
If I remember correct, the GWF was meant to be a proactive tank and the GF to be a reactive tank but the GWF gets no real benefit from being proactive or active in any way due to technical issues like lags or rubber banding and it would be a tank only for ideal situations and wishful thinking.
Maybe a Sentinel GWF should get more Damage Reduction for being active and using its powers (via the Sentinel capstone for example) so that it can withstand a lot better than now as long as it is doing something; Reaping Strike was a good move thanks to the better mitigation it got with Modul 6 but there should be something else not bound to a single power to prevent our powers to become a wanna-be block.
The point is that a GWF is a very unreliable tank and some call it gracious "an off-tank" (instead of "a-not-very-useable-tank") as it has to do much damage to get aggro of its enemies only via its enhanced threat generation but its defences are diametrically opposite to this mechanic as it has to rely on moving and running and avoiding the big hits and sometimes a GWF has not the time do deal much damage as it has to kite and run due to the lack of a block or better damage reduction.
its not a tank there isnt really a way to make it one even going con dex and full sent build you are still gonna get one shot by trash and dont even try tanking a boss
in mod 6 its go dps or go sit in PE and hope a guyildie needs an extra dps for a dungeon
you may be able to get the threat to keep aggro but you wont survive it
these are my old feats when I was IV/Destro.
I've since respecced into SM Destroyer and have a slightly different setup, In PVE Dungeons I'm shredding everything due to my Crazy high (hits above 6k arpen when companion procs bonding. so I'm at the PvE Cap)
In PVP I'm also doing pretty well. I might go back to IV for a bit later on when we get the FLS buff. but ATM I'm enjoying this build. less "chase" ability, as I'm lacking T-rush and Not using mark except for DS in dungeons, but my single target damage is awesome and with my gear I managed to hold off and defeat people in a 3v1 on point while only dropping to about 50% life (they were pretty bad players though and probably not that geared, who in their right mind stands all together and tanks a unstoppable GWF spamming WMS Crits.)
the GWF works fine.. After i started using Lazalias GWF build for PVE, very few gets close to my DPS in Dungeons. The damage the GWF put out is just merely insane.. I think most people in here who say otherwise, just don´t play it the way it´s supposed to be played., or don´t know how to play it.
Just remember theirs no rest with this class, you need to be move on the move all the time, apply your dps buffs and position yourself correctly.. No rest for the wicked!
the GWF works fine.. After i started using Lazalias GWF build for PVE, very few gets close to my DPS in Dungeons. The damage the GWF put out is just merely insane.. I think most people in here who say otherwise, just don´t play it the way it´s supposed to be played., or don´t know how to play it.
Just remember theirs no rest with this class, you need to be move on the move all the time, apply your dps buffs and position yourself correctly.. No rest for the wicked!
Totally agree. GWFs with crit build makin huge dps. You can easy out dps every class. And i mean every class ( legit players ofc without any bugged <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like feytouch).
Comments
There is a heroic feat that reduces it 15% , Stanima jewels can be crafted , boons increase it as well.
how much lifesteal and what path and what lev are you?
i play IV destroyer, using daring shout - 1. FLS/Daggers - 2. IBS + at will´s (3. sure strike 4. wicked strike) all deal about 20-25% from damage over all.
i can go sharandar and dread ring, having 5 boons, one blue compagnion (healer - heals me, give deflect buff for 4 sec, and 25% power buff priestess of sune)
lifesteal-actually 7% chance, solo all dungeon there class feature destroyer+ weapon master
the combination from daring shout (marks enemy)- unstoppable (20%damage buff+ 10 stacks -->50%) -daggers (10% damage buff)- wicked strike repeatedly- IBS/daggers is deadly , daily for soloing is slam
I have no problems like i had with warlock, other classes can´t do what GWF can
GWF its much more damage and much more fun atm than WL and when i die the only reason is that I was to slow in using unstoppable , the damage I deal, if buffed fully and fight last long enough, is abnorm, my warlock only can dream of, I am far from crying about warlock, but all GWF that cry about damage-solo dungeons and weakness of the class should go and play warlock to get in line again
char atm: 51k HP, 5k power, 2k arp and crit, 2,5k lifesteal, 2,7k DR, 2k deflect most of it blue lev 67 gear, weapon is dragon hellabard and dragon offhand, green lev 60 neck, pink lev 60 belt , having 3 blue artifacts slottet
In case you have problems i guess you should think about your damageencounter and your rotation a bit, can´t sy if your spec is bad...
ill just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbXDrYZP1C1QzweFCgjyds25ykRX-Z4zr (not my videos)
warrior is the bomb, i think its the best solo class for hard, and really hard content, paladin being better at medium content, despite their lack of damage and only better than gwf because you can do it half asleep while gwfs have to be careful and can fail because of bad lack, and gwf(or some other class) being best on easy
ah thats no damage, nooo..., only lev 73 mobs with tons of hp melted in seconds, i even can´t think about doing the small HE in Icewinddale with warlock, dead meat in seconds...
the best from all this is he kills the mobs with an -->at will more or less <--using daring shout + daggers buffing the damage and than spin+at will thats all, easy peasy
as a pala i can do 5mans but it takes forever, during early preview as ~2000 ilvl GWF(probobably, didnt have item lvl then, was 18.5k gs) i did kenku 10man in spinward, dunno if the difficulty changed
- why ds are doing damage?
and yes... lvl 70 do a amazing damage for what i tested. but the class seens a little messed.
i wanna grand fissure
in case of dealling abnorm>50% damage with "at wills", making encounter more like "buff spells" you are right, but i don´t see any problem in there, it´s quite a concept, shout-unstoppable-dagger at-will-at will-at will- IBS-daily
i don´t do anything else with warlock, but my encounter don´t buff my damage up to >200% or more taking only 3 points in feats (15% marking, 10 dagger, 20% unstoppable, 50% stacks from unstoppable, destroyer stacks 10%, weapon mastery +4,5 crit) and i am sure you have to multiplcate the singel buffs, not 15%+20%+....its more like xy x 1,15 x 1,1 x 1,2 x 1,5 x 1,2 x xy(crits)
tbh most of Warlocks encounter and feats are usless , i like playing GWF atm
go fissure in sharandar, they do not onsshot you
gwf lvl 70 DAMAGE are strong (messed, suspect, but strong) but you can see one thing: exist now a big gap between new players, intermediary (or lazy like me) and geared guys like lazza.
my ibs now can reach 250k or more (is bizarre in my opinion. balance the game is best than that. but i love big numbers and every player complain about you have a big weapon and have a inferior damage), lazza do 350k or more.
well, iam still need change my weapon.
Daring shout can crit and it procs Lostmauth's Vengeance, that's all.
ah, i see.
I'm using it but sometimes I feel that I dont have the same survivability I had in mod 5.
Any thoughts?
I ran through a leveling dungeon with some randoms, they seemed to have average gear for their level ( rank 5 enchants, normal weapon enchant, blues and greens), a Healing OP and a DPS ( I think ) warlock, I absolutely decimated them in damage, but this is understandable as I was probably 600-700 itemlevel above them.
I Wish that destroyer wasn't a class feature, and instead was a Passive part of the destroyer tree, so I could use Bravery + weaponmaster, or some other feature. it sucks because you're essentially forced into using the class feature if you go destro paragon, and Bravery is just too good for PVP to not use.
Having such heavy reliance on stacks is still annoying, damage basically ramps up for time. But when at full stacks (hard to maintain in PVP unless enemies are stupid or also melee) we do deal pretty great damage.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
My determination is almost always full. I'm doing a lot more damage. My survivability has increased. Granted, I haven't tried any dungeons yet, but so far, I'm loving the new GWF.
No way, mate. Destroyer deals up to 3 times more damage than sentinel due to Intimidation being nerfed to as low as at-will damage. As well as destroyer gets a lot more temporary hitpoints due to damage modifiers affecting how much you get. As well as they enter unstopable much faster than sentinels. Thus, destroyer deals both huge damage and tanks better than sentinel. Destroyer is the only playable build in both pvp and pve in mod 6.
get into a tier 2 and see how long a melee class can survive.
@the devs
how much melee damage can you do when you cant get in melee range? mob standard attacks do 80k damage through a GWF's pitiful DR and deflect. something is wrong when you run out of the red and still get hit that is if you dash doesnt just rubberband you back in it anyway. the delay between you hit shift and start to run is wonky too sometimes its dead on and some times it s hit shift......... ok i ma gonna run....right ... about .... NOW!
YOU CANT ASK A MELEE CLASS TO LEARN TO DODGE ATTACKS WHEN THAT CLASS HAS NO WORKING DODGE THIS GOES FOR SW TOO MAKE IT A DASH LIKE ABLILTY WITH THE IMMUNITY FRAMES OF OTHER CLASSES
we dealt with our sprint because we had the DR to soke up a hit or used unstoppable as sort of a pseudo dodge but now you want us to play like we have one well you need to give us one then...
I like the idea of where you wanna go with GWF I do we just need some way to avoid a hit because increased dr when sprinting isnt cutting it
the "solid damage" of GC, that made he stop to work the class even have the worsts powers/defensive tools/utilitary of all the classes is a bug alread reported.
Isn't that true for everyone?
If I remember correct, the GWF was meant to be a proactive tank and the GF to be a reactive tank but the GWF gets no real benefit from being proactive or active in any way due to technical issues like lags or rubber banding and it would be a tank only for ideal situations and wishful thinking.
Maybe a Sentinel GWF should get more Damage Reduction for being active and using its powers (via the Sentinel capstone for example) so that it can withstand a lot better than now as long as it is doing something; Reaping Strike was a good move thanks to the better mitigation it got with Modul 6 but there should be something else not bound to a single power to prevent our powers to become a wanna-be block.
The point is that a GWF is a very unreliable tank and some call it gracious "an off-tank" (instead of "a-not-very-useable-tank") as it has to do much damage to get aggro of its enemies only via its enhanced threat generation but its defences are diametrically opposite to this mechanic as it has to rely on moving and running and avoiding the big hits and sometimes a GWF has not the time do deal much damage as it has to kite and run due to the lack of a block or better damage reduction.
in mod 6 its go dps or go sit in PE and hope a guyildie needs an extra dps for a dungeon
you may be able to get the threat to keep aggro but you wont survive it
these are my old feats when I was IV/Destro.
I've since respecced into SM Destroyer and have a slightly different setup, In PVE Dungeons I'm shredding everything due to my Crazy high
In PVP I'm also doing pretty well. I might go back to IV for a bit later on when we get the FLS buff. but ATM I'm enjoying this build. less "chase" ability, as I'm lacking T-rush and Not using mark except for DS in dungeons, but my single target damage is awesome and with my gear I managed to hold off and defeat people in a 3v1 on point while only dropping to about 50% life (they were pretty bad players though and probably not that geared, who in their right mind stands all together and tanks a unstoppable GWF spamming WMS Crits.)
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Just remember theirs no rest with this class, you need to be move on the move all the time, apply your dps buffs and position yourself correctly.. No rest for the wicked!
Totally agree. GWFs with crit build makin huge dps. You can easy out dps every class. And i mean every class ( legit players ofc without any bugged <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like feytouch).
Yes. Its a build thing plus in mod 6 you need something like movement/little rotation/skill. I dont know if this is to difficult for most of the GWFs.