No. Part of the rework in module 4 was about giving CWs *more* defense to get them up to par in PvP. There was no question that CWs were overall a weak class in PvP in module 3, while GWFs were grotesquely strong. The problem in module 3 was that GWFs had too much damage, cc and tankiness as Destroyers, while CWs had adequate damage and cc but insufficient survivability.
U do know for destroyer gwf to could get big dr from unstoppable it needed to lose over 60%-70%%hp ?how much cw needs to lose to get dr from shield?0% and it is arp and pierce resist
Only reason gwf got nerfed was he could pawn cws easy
U do know for destroyer gwf to could get big dr from unstoppable it needed to lose over 60%-70%%hp ?how much cw needs to lose to get dr from shield?0% and it is arp and pierce resist
Only reason gwf got nerfed was he could pawn cws easy
GWF got nerfed mod 4 because we could chain prones (which boosted our DPS massively as enemies cant deflect when proned) and we had the bugged roar. I still think the nerf went too far though (Only 1 prone as a daily now) and that they should be given back a prone on takedown, roars damage be increased as the only reason people used it was for the bugged effect, and mighty leap given a charge based system as a mobility option.
The reason people want to nerf shield (well, my views on it at least) is that the DR doesnt go away when its broken, it still provides a DR buff when when "broken" if it didnt do this, I dont think people would complain as much. Stormspell is very powerful though, if it is meant to be a source of damage for Oppressors, nerf its base levels, and add a feat in oppressor tree (t3 or higher) that increases its damage back to current levels. then again oppressor tree in general needs to be looked at so its a strong contender. Most CW atm go Thaum or Renegade, which are both DPS oriented trees , not Control oriented, so as such its understandable that their control will be weaker than if they were Feated for control, but again this leads back to oppressor tree not being as attractive to players as the damage or buffs from thaum/rene
macjae is basically right on everything about both CWs and GWFs.
Mod3 CWs got good enough damage and more or less, CC. CWs were strong if their team was good enough to provide protection, and if left free to cast from far it was easy for me to get 1st in the match, and kill a lot. The one and only problem was the lack of defensive tools.
That was the main reason behind shield buff. It was asked by CWs. Either a shield buff and more reactive teleports, or some other defensive tool. The problem is, the devs didn't just buff shield.
They also buffed damage, making it much easier to land and also moving it from being proactive, to being all about passive proc-fest. That was totally un-needed.
GWF in module 3 needed the charges to threat rush and roar fixed to do not root through CC-immunity. But considering the buffs other classes got in module 4, nothing else was needed. Instead... unstoppable overnerfed, determination gain nerfed (pretty bad coupled with direct unstoppable nerf), roar not just fixed but stripped of the rooting effect completely, damage overnerfed and then moved to intimidation.
At the time, in preview server every single guy you could meet and fight with in IWP would tell you GWFs were being overnerfed and CWs changes to avalanche and procs were un-needed and un-fun.
We'll see how mod6 will turn out...CWs are right now in a pretty sweet spot, right behind TRs and DPS DCs.
May what they need is damage moved back to aim-time encounters and not proc-based.
I keep reading that in mod3 CWs were weak etc....I don't remember such a thing.
Allt was 3rd or 4th toon in leaderboard.Overall in Mod3 more CWs were in first pages better than now.
Cws were never having survivability problem.The designers gave them range,huge dps,enormous CC and 4 dodges that provide 1 sec of immunity .The last one is a Steel Defence feat for free.
Yet CWs complain.."we are squishy".Through gear and new artis ,Mod5 CWs reached 40% DR and 40k+ hp.
Shield was overbuffed and with shield on ,CWs are way tankier than the most uber GWf.Plus they have 2x the DPS and 4x the controll.
There is no problem with CWs.
CWs are so easy now,that are the most noumerous class.It is an introductory class for kids and newcomers.Since it is more noumerous Devs make further adjustments to be viable to even more casual players.More casual players come in,the play-what else- CW and some find it difficult,and they ask for more buufs.That is the bitter truth.
CWs need their Storm Spell adjusted,thier shield return to pre buff era,their cc to respect tenacity and need also thier gear to provide less hp.
Also the dodges not to offer free immunity frame.
Also i would like to see their range reduced to 70 feet,as the others classes most range.
Cheers:
A honest friend of CWs.
Edit:I forgot....CWs should no longer ignore Tenacity for CC prurposes!!!!
CW Shield is not the problem.
Problem is dodge gives 100% immunity to damage.
Dodge needs rework, or give -1 dodge to all classes.
Wizard with a shield should be a little tanky.
D&D wizards are not glass cannons if they use protection magic (such as a magic shield).
Protection magic can be more effective than metal armor.
Wizards are a jack-of-all trades.
Maybe Cryptic should nerf dps a little.
But nerfing CW survivability will make CW obsolete in module 6.
Nerfing CW shield wont help other classes to survive.
I play CW, DC, and HR.
In module 6, CW will be my least favorite class.
For 100% solo, trapper HR has *much* better survivability than any CW.
DC will be my main in module 6.
I am looking forward to 4DC + 1 tank dungeon runs while you all delude yourself to think your non-CW class will be more welcome in parties, if only CW were weaker.
I keep reading that in mod3 CWs were weak etc....I don't remember such a thing.
Allt was 3rd or 4th toon in leaderboard.Overall in Mod3 more CWs were in first pages better than now.
Cws were never having survivability problem.The designers gave them range,huge dps,enormous CC and 4 dodges that provide 1 sec of immunity .The last one is a Steel Defence feat for free.
Yet CWs complain.."we are squishy".Through gear and new artis ,Mod5 CWs reached 40% DR and 40k+ hp.
Shield was overbuffed and with shield on ,CWs are way tankier than the most uber GWf.Plus they have 2x the DPS and 4x the controll.
There is no problem with CWs.
CWs are so easy now,that are the most noumerous class.It is an introductory class for kids and newcomers.Since it is more noumerous Devs make further adjustments to be viable to even more casual players.More casual players come in,the play-what else- CW and some find it difficult,and they ask for more buufs.That is the bitter truth.
CWs need their Storm Spell adjusted,thier shield return to pre buff era,their cc to respect tenacity and need also thier gear to provide less hp.
Also the dodges not to offer free immunity frame.
Also i would like to see their range reduced to 70 feet,as the others classes most range.
Cheers:
A honest friend of CWs.
Edit:I forgot....CWs should no longer ignore Tenacity for CC prurposes!!!!
why is that a problem excactly? I mean every1 have some kind of dogde mechanism, and well in order to avoid red effects u need that tbh...
for pve? the natural dogde mechanism for range classes is called... distance. in the gap between range classes and enemies should exist a defender (gf/paladin).
if a range class have ALL THE SURVIVOL TOOLS, the diference between a defender and a range class is: for no reason, the defender is just a guy that need take a lot more damage to do the same thing of other classes (if have tools to do the same thing).
take a lot of damage today will be die in one shot.
for pve? the natural dogde mechanism for range classes is called... distance. in the gap between range classes and enemies should exist a defender (gf/paladin).
if a range class have ALL THE SURVIVOL TOOLS, the diference between a defender and a range class is: for no reason, the defender is just a guy that need take a lot more damage to do the same thing of other classes (if have tools to do the same thing).
But as have been said over and over and over again, CW's need to be in close in order to cast all of their spells!???
exist a big diference between be fixed in one place to do your damage (that is, do damage=take damage) and freeze the ground, teleport, coi, teleport, stealtime, teleport. storm thing do the heavy job.
and, of course, exist a big diference between have options and not.
note: i put this gwf video (dot time) for one reason. in general life steal+dot have this relation: a class "x" shot a power, and ls will give to you hp IF you take damage. if you are a burst class and really need tank your enemy, the ls relation will be a average between how much damage you take vs how much hp you can stolen.
to a range classe+dot, ls will act like a reservatory of hp. iam just saying that to show how that tentatives to fix the game w/o fix cw only make the gwf life worse. and, of course, show the diference between how much damage the classes need receive even using "med range" (not melee) encounters.
and THAT is just to say: when I say "a" or "b" I do not by any passion, class anger; etc. is jut the facts and rational conclusions.
ps: a LOT of cws ask for nerfs to gwf this time. now, compare both perfomances. if i say, "cw need be nerfed" is unfair? be honest,
exist a big diference between be fixed in one place to do your damage (that is, do damage=take damage) and freeze the ground, teleport, coi, teleport, stealtime, teleport. storm thing do the heavy job.
and, of course, exist a big diference between have options and not.
note: i put this gwf video (dot time) for one reason. in general life steal+dot have this relation: a class "x" shot a power, and ls will give to you hp IF you take damage. if you are a burst class and really need tank your enemy, the ls relation will be a average between how much damage you take vs how much hp you can stolen.
to a range classe+dot, ls will act like a reservatory of hp. iam just saying that to show how that tentatives to fix the game w/o fix cw only make the gwf life worse. and, of course, show the diference between how much damage the classes need receive even using "med range" (not melee) encounters.
and THAT is just to say: when I say "a" or "b" I do not by any passion, class anger; etc. is jut the facts and rational conclusions.
ps: a LOT of cws ask for nerfs to gwf this time. now, compare both perfomances. if i say, "cw need be nerfed" is unfair? be honest,
Sorry i have no idea excactly what point you are trying to bring across...
cw take far less damage, solo, than a gwf in party in your best time.
how that can be possible?
dodge
big radius powers
passive dots doing the damage.
cc
so... is a lot of survivol tools, forward shield, no?
if you eliminate just dodge, maybe is enough.
the LS thing is just to explain what even a monkey should know: if you change the rules of the game to bring some difficult to range classes, you just eliminate the melee classes.
for a melee class, like gwf, the combat is not how much damage i give before receive some damage IF receive some damage. is HOW MUCH DAMAGE I CAN GIVE VS HOW MUCH DAMAGE I CAN TAKE (now, how much damage i give before die)
so, instead to what macjae say, the solution for gwf is not nerf the monsters again. is nerf cw (and other classes), and, from that you can change the rules of the game. the first way to do that? dodge. the SECOND is the dots madness. just the third is ls (just to see the HAMSTER in perspective).
ps:the base of desintegration in my blue gear cw w/o expend a single point is the same than my ibs in the last module. if you take the cooldon time, is MORE DAMAGE expended 3 points in ibs (that is, more than 15k).
like in m4 / m5, I dont see any reason to play this game. this time, even to got the new boons (in this case, lvl 70)
"Sounds like you didn't play module 3, then. The presence of CWs in the first leaderboard pages then was about on par with SWs in module 5. Which is to say, not a lot at all."
^^
Lies,lies,accursed lies,misconception,false info and propaganda.
It seems you didn't played mod3 or playing Sims at at that time.
Did you build a nice city in Sims afterall,or was a city full of CWs running around?
Alt was 3rd toon,Sobek (CW) 6th or seventh.There were others too.I just remeber these two the most.
"So you really didn't play module 3."
You are not in a position to know who played or not.Except if you have some phychic -except your confirmed trolling- powers.
"So what you're saying is CWs are overpowered and easy mode, but a GF with half the gear score beats a CW? Your reasoning is truly coherent."
Yes i am saying that you are hiden OP class.An easy mode class.A whinning mode class.You are the introductory class to NW.An easy mode able to do anything with 3 clicks.That is why all the survivability tools.
Dodges,immunity frames,range,DPS,CC and Shiled.
Devs are in a catch 22 situation.Nearly 50% of NW players are CWs.Most of them casuals.They cannot comprehend and beat easily the game,so CWs are made easier to play.More gamers flock in,since it is the kindergarden-elementary school class now.Devs need to buff it more.
My reasoning is ofcourse coherent.Contrary to your sky floating logic.22k CW in the video uses no dodge,no cc ,and tries to beat a blocking GF with Ray of Frost?
Really?You do not understand?Ofcourse i know you understand but just playing stupid for the sake of impressions.Try harder.
All understood that the majority of whinning CWs in forums ,are just as bad as the 22k CW in that video.So when they will see complaints .they will know what they have to deal with.
PS: Yes, that CW on video is like most CWs in PvP fight... So, Hyper, do not be surprised if CW-players still complain about their own class
^^
Most good or mediocre PVP specced CWs are killing machines.They can kill DCs in seconds.They put a stubborn fight against Trs.
But as said,these CWs are a minority into the ocean of bad CW players ,that do not know how to dodge,keerp their dinstance or time their encounters.
I have CW friends that can plow through any content ,taking any role.Soloing CN,kitting the xcorpion in eleol.Everything imaginable they can do it.So soem excellent veteraqn players play this class.But these players you will rarely se in the forums and they never complain for anything.
Why that?Cause these are skills not needed in pve ,for any CW good or bad.You just click and things die.And these CWs reach 20-22k gs and in reality have no clue.They face any decent pvp toon,they loose badly(as in the video) and then they start whiinning and asking for buffs.
Every time i read "we are squishy" i am ready to smash my screen.Squishy.With 40% DR and 40+k hp in mod5 plus the shield.
"We are squishy". "We do not have CC" "Our DPS is low"
These are the people we have to deal with.Unfortunately.
Every time i read "we are squishy" i am ready to smash my screen.Squishy.With 40% DR and 40+k hp in mod5 plus the shield.
"We are squishy". "We do not have CC" "Our DPS is low"
+1... squishy. I have the impression that they dont look the game for what really is, but by stereotypes. so, "cw is squishy", ""need brain to play this class", etc, etc, etc.
And was "thanks" to those NOOBs CW-players [I were the first one on tell about them on Mod4's thread while arguing with, i think, a **** CW-player as Magiquepurse was (do not know if he is still around, but i do not care at all) but, sadly, here are a lot more clumsy players like him whose their only "good" option is only to be overgeared (P2W players) and, after me, players like Pando83 started to do the same thing as me] is that GWF-class is a real mess and CW-class is that OP. But well, you should follow my advice: do not expect a thing from CW-players. Them all, even on "PMVSPM" chanel do not know what they talk about... unless they talk about "how broken the TR class is"...
******s gonna ******... But gratz on making a post that makes less sense than the ones from zacazu!
well, here is a practical example of my affirmation above. some people (mainly cws) are unable to see the game by your real form, but by stereotypes. so everthing seens confused.
add the fact that the devs dont understand a hyperbole and ... welcome to nerver winter!
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2015
WHAT?! cw CAN'T ONE SHOT GWF yet ??? ... how can neverwinter call itself an fps pvp wise ? .............. All the Console FPS Games already have a thing called "head-shot".
Comments
U do know for destroyer gwf to could get big dr from unstoppable it needed to lose over 60%-70%%hp ?how much cw needs to lose to get dr from shield?0% and it is arp and pierce resist
Only reason gwf got nerfed was he could pawn cws easy
GWF got nerfed mod 4 because we could chain prones (which boosted our DPS massively as enemies cant deflect when proned) and we had the bugged roar. I still think the nerf went too far though (Only 1 prone as a daily now) and that they should be given back a prone on takedown, roars damage be increased as the only reason people used it was for the bugged effect, and mighty leap given a charge based system as a mobility option.
The reason people want to nerf shield (well, my views on it at least) is that the DR doesnt go away when its broken, it still provides a DR buff when when "broken" if it didnt do this, I dont think people would complain as much. Stormspell is very powerful though, if it is meant to be a source of damage for Oppressors, nerf its base levels, and add a feat in oppressor tree (t3 or higher) that increases its damage back to current levels. then again oppressor tree in general needs to be looked at so its a strong contender. Most CW atm go Thaum or Renegade, which are both DPS oriented trees , not Control oriented, so as such its understandable that their control will be weaker than if they were Feated for control, but again this leads back to oppressor tree not being as attractive to players as the damage or buffs from thaum/rene
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
/10 chars
WTB Class Reroll please
Mod3 CWs got good enough damage and more or less, CC. CWs were strong if their team was good enough to provide protection, and if left free to cast from far it was easy for me to get 1st in the match, and kill a lot. The one and only problem was the lack of defensive tools.
That was the main reason behind shield buff. It was asked by CWs. Either a shield buff and more reactive teleports, or some other defensive tool. The problem is, the devs didn't just buff shield.
They also buffed damage, making it much easier to land and also moving it from being proactive, to being all about passive proc-fest. That was totally un-needed.
GWF in module 3 needed the charges to threat rush and roar fixed to do not root through CC-immunity. But considering the buffs other classes got in module 4, nothing else was needed. Instead... unstoppable overnerfed, determination gain nerfed (pretty bad coupled with direct unstoppable nerf), roar not just fixed but stripped of the rooting effect completely, damage overnerfed and then moved to intimidation.
At the time, in preview server every single guy you could meet and fight with in IWP would tell you GWFs were being overnerfed and CWs changes to avalanche and procs were un-needed and un-fun.
We'll see how mod6 will turn out...CWs are right now in a pretty sweet spot, right behind TRs and DPS DCs.
May what they need is damage moved back to aim-time encounters and not proc-based.
Allt was 3rd or 4th toon in leaderboard.Overall in Mod3 more CWs were in first pages better than now.
Cws were never having survivability problem.The designers gave them range,huge dps,enormous CC and 4 dodges that provide 1 sec of immunity .The last one is a Steel Defence feat for free.
Yet CWs complain.."we are squishy".Through gear and new artis ,Mod5 CWs reached 40% DR and 40k+ hp.
Shield was overbuffed and with shield on ,CWs are way tankier than the most uber GWf.Plus they have 2x the DPS and 4x the controll.
There is no problem with CWs.
CWs are so easy now,that are the most noumerous class.It is an introductory class for kids and newcomers.Since it is more noumerous Devs make further adjustments to be viable to even more casual players.More casual players come in,the play-what else- CW and some find it difficult,and they ask for more buufs.That is the bitter truth.
A typical 22k CW player:enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5NFaAkL7Ns&spfreload=10
CWs need their Storm Spell adjusted,thier shield return to pre buff era,their cc to respect tenacity and need also thier gear to provide less hp.
Also the dodges not to offer free immunity frame.
Also i would like to see their range reduced to 70 feet,as the others classes most range.
Cheers:
A honest friend of CWs.
Edit:I forgot....CWs should no longer ignore Tenacity for CC prurposes!!!!
Problem is dodge gives 100% immunity to damage.
Dodge needs rework, or give -1 dodge to all classes.
Wizard with a shield should be a little tanky.
D&D wizards are not glass cannons if they use protection magic (such as a magic shield).
Protection magic can be more effective than metal armor.
Wizards are a jack-of-all trades.
Maybe Cryptic should nerf dps a little.
But nerfing CW survivability will make CW obsolete in module 6.
Nerfing CW shield wont help other classes to survive.
I play CW, DC, and HR.
In module 6, CW will be my least favorite class.
For 100% solo, trapper HR has *much* better survivability than any CW.
DC will be my main in module 6.
I am looking forward to 4DC + 1 tank dungeon runs while you all delude yourself to think your non-CW class will be more welcome in parties, if only CW were weaker.
range classes in general have dodge is a problem for pve. change that after the ls change should solve a lot of problems.
why is that a problem excactly? I mean every1 have some kind of dogde mechanism, and well in order to avoid red effects u need that tbh...
for pve? the natural dogde mechanism for range classes is called... distance. in the gap between range classes and enemies should exist a defender (gf/paladin).
if a range class have ALL THE SURVIVOL TOOLS, the diference between a defender and a range class is: for no reason, the defender is just a guy that need take a lot more damage to do the same thing of other classes (if have tools to do the same thing).
take a lot of damage today will be die in one shot.
But as have been said over and over and over again, CW's need to be in close in order to cast all of their spells!???
and, of course, exist a big diference between have options and not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyaSqlK6cc
vs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtm7H1Db0Hs
note: i put this gwf video (dot time) for one reason. in general life steal+dot have this relation: a class "x" shot a power, and ls will give to you hp IF you take damage. if you are a burst class and really need tank your enemy, the ls relation will be a average between how much damage you take vs how much hp you can stolen.
to a range classe+dot, ls will act like a reservatory of hp. iam just saying that to show how that tentatives to fix the game w/o fix cw only make the gwf life worse. and, of course, show the diference between how much damage the classes need receive even using "med range" (not melee) encounters.
and THAT is just to say: when I say "a" or "b" I do not by any passion, class anger; etc. is jut the facts and rational conclusions.
ps: a LOT of cws ask for nerfs to gwf this time. now, compare both perfomances. if i say, "cw need be nerfed" is unfair? be honest,
^^^
..Both!!!! :P
He is troll, there is no even point to argue with him, he know everything better
Sorry i have no idea excactly what point you are trying to bring across...
how that can be possible?
dodge
big radius powers
passive dots doing the damage.
cc
so... is a lot of survivol tools, forward shield, no?
if you eliminate just dodge, maybe is enough.
the LS thing is just to explain what even a monkey should know: if you change the rules of the game to bring some difficult to range classes, you just eliminate the melee classes.
for a melee class, like gwf, the combat is not how much damage i give before receive some damage IF receive some damage. is HOW MUCH DAMAGE I CAN GIVE VS HOW MUCH DAMAGE I CAN TAKE (now, how much damage i give before die)
so, instead to what macjae say, the solution for gwf is not nerf the monsters again. is nerf cw (and other classes), and, from that you can change the rules of the game. the first way to do that? dodge. the SECOND is the dots madness. just the third is ls (just to see the HAMSTER in perspective).
ps:the base of desintegration in my blue gear cw w/o expend a single point is the same than my ibs in the last module. if you take the cooldon time, is MORE DAMAGE expended 3 points in ibs (that is, more than 15k).
like in m4 / m5, I dont see any reason to play this game. this time, even to got the new boons (in this case, lvl 70)
^^
Lies,lies,accursed lies,misconception,false info and propaganda.
It seems you didn't played mod3 or playing Sims at at that time.
Did you build a nice city in Sims afterall,or was a city full of CWs running around?
Alt was 3rd toon,Sobek (CW) 6th or seventh.There were others too.I just remeber these two the most.
"So you really didn't play module 3."
You are not in a position to know who played or not.Except if you have some phychic -except your confirmed trolling- powers.
"So what you're saying is CWs are overpowered and easy mode, but a GF with half the gear score beats a CW? Your reasoning is truly coherent."
Yes i am saying that you are hiden OP class.An easy mode class.A whinning mode class.You are the introductory class to NW.An easy mode able to do anything with 3 clicks.That is why all the survivability tools.
Dodges,immunity frames,range,DPS,CC and Shiled.
Devs are in a catch 22 situation.Nearly 50% of NW players are CWs.Most of them casuals.They cannot comprehend and beat easily the game,so CWs are made easier to play.More gamers flock in,since it is the kindergarden-elementary school class now.Devs need to buff it more.
My reasoning is ofcourse coherent.Contrary to your sky floating logic.22k CW in the video uses no dodge,no cc ,and tries to beat a blocking GF with Ray of Frost?
Really?You do not understand?Ofcourse i know you understand but just playing stupid for the sake of impressions.Try harder.
All understood that the majority of whinning CWs in forums ,are just as bad as the 22k CW in that video.So when they will see complaints .they will know what they have to deal with.
Edit:CWs SHOULD NO LONGER IGNORE TENACITY CC.
^^
Most good or mediocre PVP specced CWs are killing machines.They can kill DCs in seconds.They put a stubborn fight against Trs.
But as said,these CWs are a minority into the ocean of bad CW players ,that do not know how to dodge,keerp their dinstance or time their encounters.
I have CW friends that can plow through any content ,taking any role.Soloing CN,kitting the xcorpion in eleol.Everything imaginable they can do it.So soem excellent veteraqn players play this class.But these players you will rarely se in the forums and they never complain for anything.
Why that?Cause these are skills not needed in pve ,for any CW good or bad.You just click and things die.And these CWs reach 20-22k gs and in reality have no clue.They face any decent pvp toon,they loose badly(as in the video) and then they start whiinning and asking for buffs.
Every time i read "we are squishy" i am ready to smash my screen.Squishy.With 40% DR and 40+k hp in mod5 plus the shield.
"We are squishy". "We do not have CC" "Our DPS is low"
These are the people we have to deal with.Unfortunately.
+1... squishy. I have the impression that they dont look the game for what really is, but by stereotypes. so, "cw is squishy", ""need brain to play this class", etc, etc, etc.
******s gonna ******... But gratz on making a post that makes less sense than the ones from zacazu!
add the fact that the devs dont understand a hyperbole and ... welcome to nerver winter!
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