Plenty of room for civil debate about this. I think it is situational, but a good general rule is one player to cap an empty node. Why?
your examples:
1. You (on the back cap alone) get bum rushed by three players of the enemy team. It takes 10 seconds of them traveling from other places on the map to reach you, 15 seconds for them to kill you, and another 10 seconds to cap the node. In those 35 seconds your team has used the 4v2 advantage you've given them to cap your home node, cap 2, and start moving towards the back cap, or at the very least, reinforcing mid. Good job!
2. Two of you back cap, leaving the rest of your team at a 5v3 disadvantage, 20 seconds later you capped that node, but the enemy has won and capped both your home node and mid, because you left them at a severe disadvantage. You charge off of the back cap towards 2 and are met between them by a 5 of the other team, who dispatch you quickly at 5v2, 1 of them caps their home node and the other 4 go to 2 and grind your team down one by one as they rush out of spawn to 2.
If the enemy team is not terrible, that is what they do.
It is all about giving your team a numerical advantage on other nodes for as long as possible.
So many times I am able to draw 3 or 4 or 5 of other team to me, to last at least ten seconds, and I look up and not another node is capped. Or my team tries to rush to my aid instead of capping the other nodes because, in your words, they don;t want that node to be "needlessly lost".
That drives me insane and leads to some less than polite party chat lol.
I think this is all wrong in most situations. But, at least you agree that there is room for debate. And as long as there is ROOM, why can't you guys let it lie? This is an issue that is threatening to ruin the game for me.
The strategy overdriver13 explained is a pretty much standard optimal strategy for both teams that are equally geared, and similar skilled.
While noetic2 is also right and speaking from experience, it would only happen if you're lucky that your gear and skills are better than the other team. A TR shouldn't be cleared so fast, IF at all, against the 2 of you at enemy node. Quite often, the TRs is a major decider into which team wins. A team with 2 useless TRs will mostly lose to a side with just 1 good TR.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
I think this is all wrong in most situations. But, at least you agree that there is room for debate. And as long as their is ROOM, why can't you guys let it lie? This is an issue that is threatening to ruin the game for me.
The point of this thread is to enhance the enjoyment of pvp by laying out a simple set of guidelines for newer or more casual players. So I in no way want to ruin the game for you. We can agree to disagree.
I have no problem with a TR or GF slipping behind the lines to back cap while the rest of us are fighting it out in the center. But once the center is capped, it is only common sense to contest the enemy node. Usually a couple of guys will have to hang around to clear the home node of back cappers. That means 2 or 3 guys need to put pressure on the enemy node. One guy there is simply useless. He's going to get creamed in a matter of seconds.
Unless you have information to the contrary, it is ALWAYS a good idea to rush to a node that is in the process of being capped. Almost always it will be contested. And I say ALWAYS stick around on the enemy node until it gets capped. If you just run off leaving your guy behind, odds are that he won't be able to hold it. The enemies you just killed will spawn and be back in a matter of seconds and all your effort will be wasted.
edit: The best general rule to follow, I say, is to take advantage of numbers. You know you are winning when your home node is capped, you are holding the center, and the enemy is making, one at a time, kamikaze runs at you (and your buddies). Anytime you have a chance, buddy up. The worst sin (usually) is to rush off all alone.
I want to have this conversation because it can be really productive and neither of us is saying ours is the only right way. There is some disagreement and that is ok.
I think so much depends on the situation. What I said is a general rule, not in stone. I am always thinking of the man advantage.
If a team mate and I kill an enemy and back cap, I will go immediately to 2, or whatever other node is in trouble/filling red/being contested. 2 just because from mid you can get to the end nodes faster than from any other node. I leave my team mate alone because it s the back cap, furthest from spawn and of the three nodes will on average take the longest to get to from my team. So to me, in a pug, having home node and 2 capped through most of the match is entirely sufficient. That often requires harassment of the back cap but not its total domination through the match, which really is almost impossible vs a competent team.
If it is node 2 that we clear, home node is capped and looks safe, and I know someone is harassing the back cap, I will stay to cap 2 also. If the enemy team flies to their home node as a group, that is where I will go regardless of whether or not mid is capped, as long as my team is on mid and capping it.
If the main battle is on a node, that is where I want to be.
Absolutes are difficult to pin down in domination because so much really is conditional. The info I want to spread is safe-best info. The best situation ever is at the start of the match and the entire enemy team is capping their own node. It is GG at that point. That enemy team is begging to be zerged on their own point. They die on their mounts and then you camp their spawn for 3 minutes and they give up. Then its cap trading and 1v1s and some qqing.
I think so much depends on the situation. What I said is a general rule, not in stone. I am always thinking of the man advantage.
I am not completely sure where we disagree now, but running off alone leaving a player behind, even on the home node, violates my buddy rule. Not that I'd be angered by it. Heck, if a guy runs off leaving me to die on the enemy node, I figure he's probably accomplishing something elsewhere...though I figure we'd be better off if he were chasing wins instead of kills. This is all debatable. And as you say, situational. Problem is that for some guys this stuff DOES get written in stone. And they DO get nasty when common sense violates the rules.
The best situation ever is at the start of the match and the entire enemy team is capping their own node. It is GG at that point. That enemy team is begging to be zerged on their own point. They die on their mounts and then you camp their spawn for 3 minutes and they give up. Then its cap trading and 1v1s and some qqing.
I've had premades pull this off against my team. But I'm pretty certain that we were seriously outgunned. And I wonder if it would work with even odds.
I never head to the home node at the beginning of the game. I'll always throw myself into the middle of the fight on the center node. But, all things being even, it is easy for me to imagine a scenario where a whole team sitting on the home node at the beginning of a game would be at an ADVANTAGE. As I've said the key is numbers. If it is 5v4 or 5v3, home team would have numbers and would win, and then in a short time cap the node (if it were not capped already). Then it would be off to the center node with the home node capped and the enemy team (probably) still working on capping their home node.
Edit: Most of the disagreements I'm seeing is over the speed and conditions in which a node can be taken. No doubt that a party of 5 can cap a node FAR more quickly. 1/5 of the time? Sitting on a capped node most certainly doesn't prevent the enemy from taking it, and I can't even tell if it slows them down. I'm not really sure what happens when two teams arrive on a node that hasn't been taken by either team yet. This would be useful information to know!
If it is node 2 that we clear, home node is capped and looks safe, and I know someone is harassing the back cap, I will stay to cap 2 also. If the enemy team flies to their home node as a group, that is where I will go regardless of whether or not mid is capped, as long as my team is on mid and capping it.
If I've got you right, you would take on a whole team by yourself to buy time for your team at 2. No. I'd never do that. It'd be silly. I'd be dead in seconds. But maybe you are a lot less squishy.
If I've got you right, you would take on a whole team by yourself to buy time for your team at 2. No. I'd never do that. It'd be silly. I'd be dead in seconds. But maybe you are a lot less squishy.
There are classes that can hold up 1v5 at a node long enough for their teammates cap other 2 nodes, i.e healing DC, sabo TR, tank GF, and GWF.
And btw: if a team decides to go with whole team to a single node, they deserve to get kicked and penalty should increased to a perma ban!
It is very common to have 5 players from the same team at the center node at the beginning of the game. And I'm not even sure there is anything wrong with it. But, then, that's debatable. If they park there and let the other team cap other nodes, yes. But that kind of stupid is rare. The most common stupid is the do-this-the-way-I-do kind of stupid.
I've had premades pull this off against my team. But I'm pretty certain that we were seriously outgunned. And I wonder if it would work with even odds.
I never head to the home node at the beginning of the game. I'll always throw myself into the middle of the fight on the center node. But, all things being even, it is easy for me to imagine a scenario where a whole team sitting on the home node at the beginning of a game would be at an ADVANTAGE. As I've said the key is numbers. If it is 5v4 or 5v3, home team would have numbers and would win, and then in a short time cap the node (if it were not capped already). Then it would be off to the center node with the home node capped and the enemy team (probably) still working on capping their home node.
Edit: Most of the disagreements I'm seeing is over the speed and conditions in which a node can be taken. No doubt that a party of 5 can cap a node FAR more quickly. 1/5 of the time? Sitting on a capped node most certainly doesn't prevent the enemy from taking it, and I can't even tell if it slows them down. I'm not really sure what happens when two teams arrive on a node that hasn't been taken by either team yet. This would be useful information to know!
I think I see where we really disagree. To me, because it is a game where points are ticking every second, it is all about initiative and total aggression. I bolded part of your quote because I really want to respond specifically to that.
A whole team on their home node to start. Say, red team. Blue team does this: weakest character goes to home node to cap, melee goes to 2 to cap, dc, cw, and tr go backcap against the entire other team on their node. That is a loss for the red team from the start unless they are way over geared. Here is why: that combination of classes will most definitely at least contest the back cap until their team mates on home and 2 have capped those nodes.
I charge 2 at the start of every pug match. If I have at least one team mate with me landing on and staying there, and I see no red team members coming to 2, I am flying to their home node as quickly as possible. If we wanna be specific I do this on anything but sw and gwf. The other classes can contest that node long enough to make a difference for their team. If I am on TR than by default I just right to back cap, unless my team already has another TR who is doing the same thing. Then I go to 2 as above.
Again, I really think it comes down to a defensive mindset (defending nodes) vs an offensive mindset (attacking nodes).
I am all about attacking. The first time I saw a total back cap zerg like that was when I was new to a pvp guild in the time when gwf iv sent was op and 17kgs was high. We had 5 of them on a team. We zerged the backcap as a group and I thought they were crazy. But we crushed that pug like it was nothing and it took several more matches on different classes for me to figure out that offense is key.
That is my experience anyways. We each do what works for us.
If I've got you right, you would take on a whole team by yourself to buy time for your team at 2. No. I'd never do that. It'd be silly. I'd be dead in seconds. But maybe you are a lot less squishy.
It depends on what class I am on. TR, of course, that is how you play TR. CW, GF, even HR, yes yes yes. SW no. GWF no. I can't speak to DC because I don't have much experience on DC at level 60. But from what I've seen a good DC can wreck a red teams ability to quickly cap their home node.
I am on my third CW, it is my main at this point. Yes I drive that thing right into the face of an opponent trying to cap their home node as a team at the start of a match. Yes they normally kill me between 10 and 30 seconds after hitting their node. But even ten seconds is really valuable. You can do a lot of damage to a whole team on cw in ten seconds. Especially when they are all on their mounts and definitely not expecting to be zerged by a lone kamikaze wizard lol. Things like setting up a self-targeted aoe cc immediately off node, repeling one of them off node, dodging immediately on node (the melee strikers and tanks will try to gap close you as you are dodging and they will land right in the middle of your aoe cc), single target cc whoever is left on node, and just kind of repeating from there. Any luck and you'll get help from a team mate before you die, and you've already set him up to contest that node for as long as possible via cc's and knocking enemy health way down.
If you are crazy and fearless enough in pvp, you will have better geared pugs running from you half the time even if they know they have a 50/50 chance beating you 1v1 or 2v1. I'm building up a library of dom pvp vids and will be uploading them soonish. I am by no means an expert or elite, but I think I know how to beat pugs most times. Would love for more knowledgeable people to chime in. The game only gets better when information is shared.
Again, we each have what works for us and in the end, in the name of sportsmanship, it is gg as always.
"DC is down in 1 rotation." LMFAO if a DC goes down in 1 rotation then that DC is most definitely not thought out, designed made his/her DC class for a PvP spec and has no clue how to optimally play the DC off tank PvP role, I have well over 500 wins in lvl60 PvP, (not counting lvl10-19 pvp) I have played a DC class from day #1 of closed beta and my DC is still my main character played to present date, I also have a total of 7 lvl60's one of each class, all designed made and played 100% PvP from lvl10-60 just as a learning tool to help better my understanding of the DC class PvP PoV as well as the other 6 classes PoV of PvP. The DC class Primary Role is LEADER, Secondary role is Crowd Control, As a DC I lead my team from the start gate to our base CAP, once cap is blue, then I lead them to Mid CAP, cap complete, on to enemy base CAP, NEVER WASTING TIME TO DEFEND, CAP = 300pts, Defend = 100pts, Never waste time fighting off CAP, kills only = 50pts, ASSIST only reward 25pts, but can be AoE for effect. The Team Base CAP Priority, Mid #2 CAP second priority and last but not least enemy CAP 3rd priority. this helps to keep the enemy team discombobulated, confounded and confused. Once the enemy team moral is deflated then I press on my attack of the enemy teams base CAP as 8 out of 9 times the newbie pugs will focus on trying to defend their team base CAP as a matter of Pride, and as they say Pride goeth before a fall. As I stated at the beginning of my polite retort in regards to the Original Post of this thread as well as to the replay to this post. I have well over 500+ lvl60 PvP Team Wins, that I have applied this Tactical Offensive Strategy. this has been a hard lesson learned from 7 classes designed, made and played 100% PvP from lvl10-60; as well as my primary default tactical strategy as a DC Class Role [Leader], [Crowd Controller] with all pvp team lvl1-60 wins 7 out of 10 domination matches. as for lvl60 GG PvP, that is a total cluster fluck and a very long winded rant for some other time lol :P
Sincerely with all my admiration and respect to all of the PvP community who are about to die I SALUTE YOU!
Norisman@Norisman
lvl60 DC/AC Faithful/Virtuous Hybrid Build/ Spec for PvP Team Support
D&D Neverwinter Online PvP Enthusiast
Time Played 18+ months from closed beta to present date.
I think there is probably some really good stuff in this post, and I want to kindly suggest paragraph breaks to ease the absorption of what helpful info there is here.
I always see the priority node as mid. But that depends on the situation. Mid because it is a game of speed and you can reach either end node the quickest, from 2. Really competitive matches 2 is contested through the entire match and the game comes down to which team can keep the end nodes capped the longest. I see keeping the red team on its heals and on the defensive as the key to winning pug matches.
A whole team on their home node to start. Say, red team. Blue team does this: weakest character goes to home node to cap, melee goes to 2 to cap, dc, cw, and tr go backcap against the entire other team on their node. That is a loss for the red team from the start unless they are way over geared. Here is why: that combination of classes will most definitely at least contest the back cap until their team mates on home and 2 have capped those nodes.
If a whole team goes home node to start it's usually because they inspected everyone and decided they had no chance before the match started and they are just hoping to get a free 300 points. 5 on home as a strategy to start won't lose you a game, but it is a strong indicator that you're going to lose anyways. With 5 at home and equal teams the point will be capped before your 3 get there to contest and then they will go right past you to the middle and kill your melee and steal the cap at 2. If you're winning the match by stalling 5 players with 3 players anywhere on the map it's probably not because 3v5 is a superior strategy but because their 5 players are worse than your 3.
If a whole team goes home node to start it's usually because they inspected everyone and decided they had no chance before the match started and they are just hoping to get a free 300 points. 5 on home as a strategy to start won't lose you a game, but it is a strong indicator that you're going to lose anyways. With 5 at home and equal teams the point will be capped before your 3 get there to contest and then they will go right past you to the middle and kill your melee and steal the cap at 2. If you're winning the match by stalling 5 players with 3 players anywhere on the map it's probably not because 3v5 is a superior strategy but because their 5 players are worse than your 3.
I think 5v3 equal skill and gs is a fair many seconds for the 5 to wipe out the 3. Depends on classes again...3 sws arent gonna last long anywhere while 3 TRs could last and entire match against the other team lol. So a mix and all other thing being equal...it lasts a little while. I think that goes for any odd man advantage 2v1, 3v2...so on.
My goal always is to tie up as many players of the other team for as long as I can at a node that will take them longest to get to the other nodes after they kill me.
I think 5v3 equal skill and gs is a fair many seconds for the 5 to wipe out the 3. Depends on classes again...3 sws arent gonna last long anywhere while 3 TRs could last and entire match against the other team lol. So a mix and all other thing being equal...it lasts a little while. I think that goes for any odd man advantage 2v1, 3v2...so on.
My goal always is to tie up as many players of the other team for as long as I can at a node that will take them longest to get to the other nodes after they kill me.
Here discussion moved to which class or which team can last longer..
Simply pick up 5 immortals DC and volla. Try move them away from any point.. U rather move to other spot than waste time to kill what can't die.
3 sw's vs 3 Tr's well. U know its depend of players battle experience. Same goes with all other classes. gear is big part, but if player is moron, even uber gear will not save him from lose.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Right. This is meant to be a basic guide for casual/newer players to increase their odds of winning and enjoying domination pvp. Get too far into conditions and particulars and you end up in a class balance argument or whatever.
Safe to say for anyone new looking at this thread- the information in the original post will serve you as a guide to increasing your chances of winning domination pick up game matches- and subsequently hopefully your enjoyment of the pvp experience in neverwinter overall.
HAIL! Greetings and Salutations to all my Brothers/Sisters Viking kindred spirits in Arms with in the PWE/Cryptic's Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter Online PvP and PvE community of the general player population; of both the free to play and pay to support investor aspects and options of the PWE/Cryptic Neverwinter game franchise; that helps to pay the bills to keep the game alive and thriving. For each and every one of you regardless of how rich or poor you are irl and or in game, as long as you are able and willing to partake in the many different aspects of the games free to play non-paying or the pay to access and support the games ZEN and ZEN Market and the Public Auction House and the A.D. Exchange economic currencies systems, by buying the ZEN Market Z-Items & Z-Services and or buying ZEN offering it for sale on the A.D. Exchange for conversion to Astral Diamonds both are a very important aspect of the games vital economic systems that help support the PWE/Cryptic franchise that helps to keep the Arc Games like Neverwinter available as free to access, free to play, free to farm and enjoy the diverse aspects and content the game has to offer.
No matter how new you are to the game/race/class/role/pvp/pve or if you are and old school battle hardened 15 year Cryptic veteran like myself, no matter how meek and or meager or great and powerful, each and every one of you brings a special aspect to the game and I SALUTE YOU ALL!
I have been a Cryptic games cash paying customer since Cryptic's 1st mmorpg City of Heroes, City of Villains, Champion's Online, Star Trek Online and now here in Cryptics designed/developed version of the Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter Online based off of the D&D 4th Edition. With a total of 15 years experience of playing all of Cryptic's designed and developed mmorpg games with as always a personal primary interest focused on the PvP aspects of all of Cryptic's mmorpg games with a very strong secondary interest focused also on the PvE solo and team play content. Including all races, classes and their many different available roles, skills builds and speculations available to choose from. This also includes an in depth amount of time dedicated to studies of all the games many different aspects of gear, items, enchantments, artifacts, companions and mounts; as well as the many different professions/crafting skill sets and game resources and currencies.
I have 7 level 60's characters one of each class type, all 7 were designed, made and played for a primary focus on a primary focus spec in PvP, and a very strong secondary focus on PvE for speed leveling from level 1-10-59-60 for farming the wanted/needed gear/items/enchantments/artifacts/companions and mounts and as a primary learning tool to help me better understand all the many different points of view of each of the available race/class/roles available to play in each of the games modules 1-5 PvP/PvE content for both solo and team game play content.
Of all the current mod-1-5: 7 available playable classes, IMHO the DC class is my preferred class for both PvP & PvE game play content; as well as the learning the other 6 classes/roles mechanics and dynamics points of view also for both PvP & PvE for both aspects are merely one side of the same coin.
I have well over 500 wins in PvP Domination, I have always preferred to play the DC class as my main/primary class/character from day #1 of closed beta tests mod1-5 and now mod 6 closed/open beta tests. This current DC/AC Faithful/Virtuous Hybrid Servivalest Buffs for Dmg Mitigation, Dmg Augmentation, and Buffs for Allied and Self Stats and HP and THP & Heals, also for enemy debuffing and is capable of going at it in a 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 and yes even a 1v5 PvP CAP Attack that usually discombobulates, confounds and confuses the many of the enemy teams I have encountered and engaged in my many many PvP 5v5 Domination as well as GG 20v20 PvP.
The Devoted Cleric Paragon Path of the Anointed Champion is the more defensive focused path. This path has more group buffing abilities, offers a decent amount of damage mitigation and some group temporary immunity powers. Temporary hit points and healing builds are supplemented with anointed Holy Symbol which gives 10% HP to party for each divinity encounter (works with sunburst/BoH tab trick). Although you lose foresight, blessing of battle and anointed holy symbol can make up for it fairly easily. Choose this path for: A Survivability:Off-Tank/Buffing/Dmg Mitigation and Heals Team Support Build/specialized primarily for lvl60 5v5 Domination PvP.
Race: Half Elf (+2 CON & +2 WIS) Roll for Max CON to 14, with WIZ 17, STR 14, CHA 13.
Then all points into CON & WIS. At lvl60=STR 16, CON 20 , DEX 13, INT 15, WIS 23 CHA 15
Build/Spec: Servivalest/ Off Tank/Dmg Mitigation/Buffer/Healer/Team Support
Enchantments: Offensive Silvery, Defensive Silvery, Utility Dark
Paragon Path: Anointed Champion (AC)
Powers: Train all powers to 2/3 then add 3/3 to the power's you prefer to use in your action bar load out as 1st priority then add 3/3 to all remaining powers secondary priority post lvl60 Mod5|Mod6=lvl70.
Heroic Feats: 3 Greater Fortune, 3 Toughness, 3 Holy Resolve, 3 Weapon Mastery, 3 Repurpose Soul, 1 Cleanse, 4 Bountiful Fortune.
Faithfull: 5/5 Resounding Beliefs (stronger direct heals); 5/5 Desperate Restoration (more clutch healing, Divine intervention may not stack with AHS); 5/5 Shared Burdens (turns any heal to an AoE heal); 5/5 Test of Faith (much stronger personal survivability feat and useful for party also); 1/1 Agent of the Divine
For the last 10 points, you can go 5/5 Lasting Wishes, 5/5 Battle Fervor for more healing/ buffing
At-wills: Blessing of Battle (fast divinity), Astral Seal (easy healing)
Encounters: Astral Shield/Divine Glow/Healing Word or Bastion of Health
or Break the Spirit (for party DPS buff) or Exaltation (buff/heal single target)
Class Features: Anointed Holy Symbol (mitigation)/ Holy Fervor (faster AP gain) or Healer's Lore (more healing)
Daily: Hallowed Ground, Anointed Army
Playstyle: You probably want to use A.S. and D.G. Between both of those and B.o.B. you still give great D.R. and can probably help the party get to the cap. recast A.S. a few mobs, then either spam B.o.B. or A.S. depending on preference. A.H.S. no longer gives free Temp H.P. now that divine A.S. doesn't heal but you're still going to use DIVINE ENCOUNTER enough to make it worthwhile. If you have a strong DPS' player who is doing the bulk of the DPS then Exaltation is very good, otherwise a RD Healing Encounter makes for a very safe experience, or B.T.S. for faster kills. H.G. for damage/DR buffs, and A.A. for clutches/immunity to C.C. Still very powerful and versatile.
Level 60 PvP Domination
PvP Domination Score Points Priorities
[CAP=300pts], [Defend Cap=100pts], [kill=50pts] & [Assists=25pts]
As a D.C. class my role in the team is be a Team Leader and a Crowd Controller all at same time also trying to focus on keeping my self buffed/healed as much as possible, so I can focus on completing the [CAP] catputer.
I always try to Lead my team from start gate to our team base [CAP], once capture complete 100% Blue, = 300 score points, then I try to Lead my team to Mid#2 [CAP], once capture is completed at 100% Blue = 300 score points, ( at his time if all 5 of my team members have stayed in a tight close team formation and received both of the 1st and 2nd CAP score point for a minimum 600 score. so now every one of team get at lest the min rewards at end of match, regardless of what team wins.
OK now all 5x team members BLITZ on to the enemy base CAP,
NEVER WASTE TIME TRYING TO DEFEND Mid#2 IF IT IS *BLUE* CAP TOTAL WASTE OF TIME:
ALWAYS FOCUS ON ATTACKING ENEMY RED CAPS #1 & #3. Remember the score rewards are CAP=300pts, Defend=100pts, Never waste time fighting off CAP, kills only = 50pts, ASSIST only reward 25pts, but can be AoE for effect.
The Team CAP first Priority,#1 CAP & Cap#3, Skip Mid#2 when on Blitz Run to Cap #3 second priority.
this helps to keep the enemy team discombobulated, confounded and confused. and spread out thin across the battlefield between #1 and #3.
Once the enemy teams moral is deflated then I try to lead my team for a full out hard press BLITZES attacking of the enemy teams base CAP as 5 out of 7 times the newbie pugs will try to fall back close to respawn point to quick respawn after death and short run to team home base to focus on trying to defend their team base CAP as a matter confusion and or bruised pride, and as they say pride goeth before the fall.
I have well over 500+ lvl60 PvP 5v5 Domination Match WINS, you can verify this by looking me up on the PvP Leader Board; because I have applied this Tactical Offensive Strategy. This has been a hard lesson learned from hundreds if not thousands of PvP 5v5 Dom matches from all 7 classes lvl60 5v5 Domination Match Team WINS 7 out of 10 domination matches.
Sincerely with all my admiration and respect to all of the PvP community who are about to die
I SALUTE YOU!
Norisman@Norisman
lvl60 DC/AC Faithful/Virtuous Hybrid Build/ Spec for PvP Team Support
D&D Neverwinter Online PvP Enthusiast
Time Played 22 months from closed beta to present date.
i fight trs all day at my home node idc about winning the match!!!! Fight trs don't let them bully you!!!
As a guide for beginners, this kind of sucks. Bad idea to go after them alone. Sometimes TRs are not worth the trouble of rooting out. If they want to hang around your home node after it is capped, let them! That's THEIR mistake. Just join your fellows on the other two nodes where you have a numerical advantage.
Any time a player leaves the group, he leaves the group at a disadvantage. A TR camped out on the back node leaves his team contesting the other two nodes 4v5. That is NOT good strategy. And unless the other team is incompetent, a player off lone rangering is going to get killed before he can accomplish anything. As I keep saying the best strategy is to buddy up to CAP nodes. We are talking about groups of 2 or 3. Decoying is usually bad strategy. If you do not SUCCEED at capping nodes, you are losing the game.
i fight trs all day at my home node idc about winning the match!!!! Fight trs don't let them bully you!!!
As long as it is just you fighting and dying at your home node than it is okay (to a point). It keeps the point contested and keeps a good TR occupied and stops him from causing trouble at the other nodes. Just make sure you are winning on the other nodes though.
Any time a player leaves the group, he leaves the group at a disadvantage. A TR camped out on the back node leaves his team contesting the other two nodes 4v5. That is NOT good strategy. And unless the other team is incompetent, a player off lone rangering is going to get killed before he can accomplish anything. As I keep saying the best strategy is to buddy up to CAP nodes. We are talking about groups of 2 or 3. Decoying is usually bad strategy. If you do not SUCCEED at capping nodes, you are losing the game.
Holding nodes wins PVP. Every capped node is a node you failed to defend and lost. Nothing irritates me more than watching 2/3/4 people on my team swinging across the map like a pendulum. Nobody cares if the 4 of you have just capped 3 when seconds later the red team arrives back there and starts flipping it again. Flip a node and hold it. These players that end up with 6000 points and on a losing team because all they done was run from node to node capping drive me insane.
1 to 1
1 to 3
Rest at mid, with one peeling off to help out at 1 or 3 when mid is safely secured.
If the enemy team is stupid and starts sending more players to their home node then you send more of your own players there to kill them faster.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
As a guide for beginners, this kind of sucks. Bad idea to go after them alone. Sometimes TRs are not worth the trouble of rooting out. If they want to hang around your home node after it is capped, let them! That's THEIR mistake. Just join your fellows on the other two nodes where you have a numerical advantage.
yeah... the TR backcapping your base is just going to stay there and not come help his team mates in either of the two nodes while your base is red and gaining his team points.
your advice is even more terrible than his. I knew this "PVP" section would be filled with clueless pvers giving horrible advice.
yeah... the TR backcapping your base is just going to stay there and not come help his team mates in either of the two nodes while your base is red and gaining his team points.
your advice is even more terrible than his. I knew this "PVP" section would be filled with clueless pvers giving horrible advice.
regards
Yeah, snide remarks. That's helpful. It is quite common for TRs to hang around the enemy home node. You ought to know that. And 2 or even 3 players getting obsessed with chasing down a single TR is a VERY common mistake. You ought to know that, too. Two well-geared TRs on the home node are near impossible to clear. I say don't waste your time. Go somewhere where you can do some good. But in your world, I suppose that's "terrible advice."
Holding nodes wins PVP. Every capped node is a node you failed to defend and lost. Nothing irritates me more than watching 2/3/4 people on my team swinging across the map like a pendulum. Nobody cares if the 4 of you have just capped 3 when seconds later the red team arrives back there and starts flipping it again. Flip a node and hold it. These players that end up with 6000 points and on a losing team because all they done was run from node to node capping drive me insane.
I guess it sounded like is was saying "flip nodes." If you look at earlier posts my argument has been that players shouldn't leave the enemy node until it has been capped. I never said anything about running about helterskelter. My argument was to stay in groups and fight ON the nodes. If you want to interpret it differently, so be it. Though you could have been a little less rude. Your advice to HOLD nodes rather than chase around after them is mostly right on. Good for you.
Comments
While noetic2 is also right and speaking from experience, it would only happen if you're lucky that your gear and skills are better than the other team. A TR shouldn't be cleared so fast, IF at all, against the 2 of you at enemy node. Quite often, the TRs is a major decider into which team wins. A team with 2 useless TRs will mostly lose to a side with just 1 good TR.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
The point of this thread is to enhance the enjoyment of pvp by laying out a simple set of guidelines for newer or more casual players. So I in no way want to ruin the game for you. We can agree to disagree.
Unless you have information to the contrary, it is ALWAYS a good idea to rush to a node that is in the process of being capped. Almost always it will be contested. And I say ALWAYS stick around on the enemy node until it gets capped. If you just run off leaving your guy behind, odds are that he won't be able to hold it. The enemies you just killed will spawn and be back in a matter of seconds and all your effort will be wasted.
edit: The best general rule to follow, I say, is to take advantage of numbers. You know you are winning when your home node is capped, you are holding the center, and the enemy is making, one at a time, kamikaze runs at you (and your buddies). Anytime you have a chance, buddy up. The worst sin (usually) is to rush off all alone.
I think so much depends on the situation. What I said is a general rule, not in stone. I am always thinking of the man advantage.
If a team mate and I kill an enemy and back cap, I will go immediately to 2, or whatever other node is in trouble/filling red/being contested. 2 just because from mid you can get to the end nodes faster than from any other node. I leave my team mate alone because it s the back cap, furthest from spawn and of the three nodes will on average take the longest to get to from my team. So to me, in a pug, having home node and 2 capped through most of the match is entirely sufficient. That often requires harassment of the back cap but not its total domination through the match, which really is almost impossible vs a competent team.
If it is node 2 that we clear, home node is capped and looks safe, and I know someone is harassing the back cap, I will stay to cap 2 also. If the enemy team flies to their home node as a group, that is where I will go regardless of whether or not mid is capped, as long as my team is on mid and capping it.
If the main battle is on a node, that is where I want to be.
Absolutes are difficult to pin down in domination because so much really is conditional. The info I want to spread is safe-best info. The best situation ever is at the start of the match and the entire enemy team is capping their own node. It is GG at that point. That enemy team is begging to be zerged on their own point. They die on their mounts and then you camp their spawn for 3 minutes and they give up. Then its cap trading and 1v1s and some qqing.
I never head to the home node at the beginning of the game. I'll always throw myself into the middle of the fight on the center node. But, all things being even, it is easy for me to imagine a scenario where a whole team sitting on the home node at the beginning of a game would be at an ADVANTAGE. As I've said the key is numbers. If it is 5v4 or 5v3, home team would have numbers and would win, and then in a short time cap the node (if it were not capped already). Then it would be off to the center node with the home node capped and the enemy team (probably) still working on capping their home node.
Edit: Most of the disagreements I'm seeing is over the speed and conditions in which a node can be taken. No doubt that a party of 5 can cap a node FAR more quickly. 1/5 of the time? Sitting on a capped node most certainly doesn't prevent the enemy from taking it, and I can't even tell if it slows them down. I'm not really sure what happens when two teams arrive on a node that hasn't been taken by either team yet. This would be useful information to know!
There are classes that can hold up 1v5 at a node long enough for their teammates cap other 2 nodes, i.e healing DC, sabo TR, tank GF, and GWF.
I think I see where we really disagree. To me, because it is a game where points are ticking every second, it is all about initiative and total aggression. I bolded part of your quote because I really want to respond specifically to that.
A whole team on their home node to start. Say, red team. Blue team does this: weakest character goes to home node to cap, melee goes to 2 to cap, dc, cw, and tr go backcap against the entire other team on their node. That is a loss for the red team from the start unless they are way over geared. Here is why: that combination of classes will most definitely at least contest the back cap until their team mates on home and 2 have capped those nodes.
I charge 2 at the start of every pug match. If I have at least one team mate with me landing on and staying there, and I see no red team members coming to 2, I am flying to their home node as quickly as possible. If we wanna be specific I do this on anything but sw and gwf. The other classes can contest that node long enough to make a difference for their team. If I am on TR than by default I just right to back cap, unless my team already has another TR who is doing the same thing. Then I go to 2 as above.
Again, I really think it comes down to a defensive mindset (defending nodes) vs an offensive mindset (attacking nodes).
I am all about attacking. The first time I saw a total back cap zerg like that was when I was new to a pvp guild in the time when gwf iv sent was op and 17kgs was high. We had 5 of them on a team. We zerged the backcap as a group and I thought they were crazy. But we crushed that pug like it was nothing and it took several more matches on different classes for me to figure out that offense is key.
That is my experience anyways. We each do what works for us.
It depends on what class I am on. TR, of course, that is how you play TR. CW, GF, even HR, yes yes yes. SW no. GWF no. I can't speak to DC because I don't have much experience on DC at level 60. But from what I've seen a good DC can wreck a red teams ability to quickly cap their home node.
I am on my third CW, it is my main at this point. Yes I drive that thing right into the face of an opponent trying to cap their home node as a team at the start of a match. Yes they normally kill me between 10 and 30 seconds after hitting their node. But even ten seconds is really valuable. You can do a lot of damage to a whole team on cw in ten seconds. Especially when they are all on their mounts and definitely not expecting to be zerged by a lone kamikaze wizard lol. Things like setting up a self-targeted aoe cc immediately off node, repeling one of them off node, dodging immediately on node (the melee strikers and tanks will try to gap close you as you are dodging and they will land right in the middle of your aoe cc), single target cc whoever is left on node, and just kind of repeating from there. Any luck and you'll get help from a team mate before you die, and you've already set him up to contest that node for as long as possible via cc's and knocking enemy health way down.
If you are crazy and fearless enough in pvp, you will have better geared pugs running from you half the time even if they know they have a 50/50 chance beating you 1v1 or 2v1. I'm building up a library of dom pvp vids and will be uploading them soonish. I am by no means an expert or elite, but I think I know how to beat pugs most times. Would love for more knowledgeable people to chime in. The game only gets better when information is shared.
Again, we each have what works for us and in the end, in the name of sportsmanship, it is gg as always.
I think there is probably some really good stuff in this post, and I want to kindly suggest paragraph breaks to ease the absorption of what helpful info there is here.
I always see the priority node as mid. But that depends on the situation. Mid because it is a game of speed and you can reach either end node the quickest, from 2. Really competitive matches 2 is contested through the entire match and the game comes down to which team can keep the end nodes capped the longest. I see keeping the red team on its heals and on the defensive as the key to winning pug matches.
I think 5v3 equal skill and gs is a fair many seconds for the 5 to wipe out the 3. Depends on classes again...3 sws arent gonna last long anywhere while 3 TRs could last and entire match against the other team lol. So a mix and all other thing being equal...it lasts a little while. I think that goes for any odd man advantage 2v1, 3v2...so on.
My goal always is to tie up as many players of the other team for as long as I can at a node that will take them longest to get to the other nodes after they kill me.
Here discussion moved to which class or which team can last longer..
Simply pick up 5 immortals DC and volla. Try move them away from any point.. U rather move to other spot than waste time to kill what can't die.
3 sw's vs 3 Tr's well. U know its depend of players battle experience. Same goes with all other classes. gear is big part, but if player is moron, even uber gear will not save him from lose.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Safe to say for anyone new looking at this thread- the information in the original post will serve you as a guide to increasing your chances of winning domination pick up game matches- and subsequently hopefully your enjoyment of the pvp experience in neverwinter overall.
No matter how new you are to the game/race/class/role/pvp/pve or if you are and old school battle hardened 15 year Cryptic veteran like myself, no matter how meek and or meager or great and powerful, each and every one of you brings a special aspect to the game and I SALUTE YOU ALL!
I have been a Cryptic games cash paying customer since Cryptic's 1st mmorpg City of Heroes, City of Villains, Champion's Online, Star Trek Online and now here in Cryptics designed/developed version of the Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter Online based off of the D&D 4th Edition. With a total of 15 years experience of playing all of Cryptic's designed and developed mmorpg games with as always a personal primary interest focused on the PvP aspects of all of Cryptic's mmorpg games with a very strong secondary interest focused also on the PvE solo and team play content. Including all races, classes and their many different available roles, skills builds and speculations available to choose from. This also includes an in depth amount of time dedicated to studies of all the games many different aspects of gear, items, enchantments, artifacts, companions and mounts; as well as the many different professions/crafting skill sets and game resources and currencies.
I have 7 level 60's characters one of each class type, all 7 were designed, made and played for a primary focus on a primary focus spec in PvP, and a very strong secondary focus on PvE for speed leveling from level 1-10-59-60 for farming the wanted/needed gear/items/enchantments/artifacts/companions and mounts and as a primary learning tool to help me better understand all the many different points of view of each of the available race/class/roles available to play in each of the games modules 1-5 PvP/PvE content for both solo and team game play content.
Of all the current mod-1-5: 7 available playable classes, IMHO the DC class is my preferred class for both PvP & PvE game play content; as well as the learning the other 6 classes/roles mechanics and dynamics points of view also for both PvP & PvE for both aspects are merely one side of the same coin.
I have well over 500 wins in PvP Domination, I have always preferred to play the DC class as my main/primary class/character from day #1 of closed beta tests mod1-5 and now mod 6 closed/open beta tests. This current DC/AC Faithful/Virtuous Hybrid Servivalest Buffs for Dmg Mitigation, Dmg Augmentation, and Buffs for Allied and Self Stats and HP and THP & Heals, also for enemy debuffing and is capable of going at it in a 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 and yes even a 1v5 PvP CAP Attack that usually discombobulates, confounds and confuses the many of the enemy teams I have encountered and engaged in my many many PvP 5v5 Domination as well as GG 20v20 PvP.
The Devoted Cleric Paragon Path of the Anointed Champion is the more defensive focused path. This path has more group buffing abilities, offers a decent amount of damage mitigation and some group temporary immunity powers. Temporary hit points and healing builds are supplemented with anointed Holy Symbol which gives 10% HP to party for each divinity encounter (works with sunburst/BoH tab trick). Although you lose foresight, blessing of battle and anointed holy symbol can make up for it fairly easily. Choose this path for: A Survivability:Off-Tank/Buffing/Dmg Mitigation and Heals Team Support Build/specialized primarily for lvl60 5v5 Domination PvP.
Race: Half Elf (+2 CON & +2 WIS) Roll for Max CON to 14, with WIZ 17, STR 14, CHA 13.
Then all points into CON & WIS. At lvl60=STR 16, CON 20 , DEX 13, INT 15, WIS 23 CHA 15
Build/Spec: Servivalest/ Off Tank/Dmg Mitigation/Buffer/Healer/Team Support
Enchantments: Offensive Silvery, Defensive Silvery, Utility Dark
Paragon Path: Anointed Champion (AC)
Powers: Train all powers to 2/3 then add 3/3 to the power's you prefer to use in your action bar load out as 1st priority then add 3/3 to all remaining powers secondary priority post lvl60 Mod5|Mod6=lvl70.
Heroic Feats: 3 Greater Fortune, 3 Toughness, 3 Holy Resolve, 3 Weapon Mastery, 3 Repurpose Soul, 1 Cleanse, 4 Bountiful Fortune.
Faithfull: 5/5 Resounding Beliefs (stronger direct heals); 5/5 Desperate Restoration (more clutch healing, Divine intervention may not stack with AHS); 5/5 Shared Burdens (turns any heal to an AoE heal); 5/5 Test of Faith (much stronger personal survivability feat and useful for party also); 1/1 Agent of the Divine
For the last 10 points, you can go 5/5 Lasting Wishes, 5/5 Battle Fervor for more healing/ buffing
At-wills: Blessing of Battle (fast divinity), Astral Seal (easy healing)
Encounters: Astral Shield/Divine Glow/Healing Word or Bastion of Health
or Break the Spirit (for party DPS buff) or Exaltation (buff/heal single target)
Class Features: Anointed Holy Symbol (mitigation)/ Holy Fervor (faster AP gain) or Healer's Lore (more healing)
Daily: Hallowed Ground, Anointed Army
Playstyle: You probably want to use A.S. and D.G. Between both of those and B.o.B. you still give great D.R. and can probably help the party get to the cap. recast A.S. a few mobs, then either spam B.o.B. or A.S. depending on preference. A.H.S. no longer gives free Temp H.P. now that divine A.S. doesn't heal but you're still going to use DIVINE ENCOUNTER enough to make it worthwhile. If you have a strong DPS' player who is doing the bulk of the DPS then Exaltation is very good, otherwise a RD Healing Encounter makes for a very safe experience, or B.T.S. for faster kills. H.G. for damage/DR buffs, and A.A. for clutches/immunity to C.C. Still very powerful and versatile.
Level 60 PvP Domination
PvP Domination Score Points Priorities
[CAP=300pts], [Defend Cap=100pts], [kill=50pts] & [Assists=25pts]
As a D.C. class my role in the team is be a Team Leader and a Crowd Controller all at same time also trying to focus on keeping my self buffed/healed as much as possible, so I can focus on completing the [CAP] catputer.
I always try to Lead my team from start gate to our team base [CAP], once capture complete 100% Blue, = 300 score points, then I try to Lead my team to Mid#2 [CAP], once capture is completed at 100% Blue = 300 score points, ( at his time if all 5 of my team members have stayed in a tight close team formation and received both of the 1st and 2nd CAP score point for a minimum 600 score. so now every one of team get at lest the min rewards at end of match, regardless of what team wins.
OK now all 5x team members BLITZ on to the enemy base CAP,
NEVER WASTE TIME TRYING TO DEFEND Mid#2 IF IT IS *BLUE* CAP TOTAL WASTE OF TIME:
ALWAYS FOCUS ON ATTACKING ENEMY RED CAPS #1 & #3. Remember the score rewards are CAP=300pts, Defend=100pts, Never waste time fighting off CAP, kills only = 50pts, ASSIST only reward 25pts, but can be AoE for effect.
The Team CAP first Priority,#1 CAP & Cap#3, Skip Mid#2 when on Blitz Run to Cap #3 second priority.
this helps to keep the enemy team discombobulated, confounded and confused. and spread out thin across the battlefield between #1 and #3.
Once the enemy teams moral is deflated then I try to lead my team for a full out hard press BLITZES attacking of the enemy teams base CAP as 5 out of 7 times the newbie pugs will try to fall back close to respawn point to quick respawn after death and short run to team home base to focus on trying to defend their team base CAP as a matter confusion and or bruised pride, and as they say pride goeth before the fall.
I have well over 500+ lvl60 PvP 5v5 Domination Match WINS, you can verify this by looking me up on the PvP Leader Board; because I have applied this Tactical Offensive Strategy. This has been a hard lesson learned from hundreds if not thousands of PvP 5v5 Dom matches from all 7 classes lvl60 5v5 Domination Match Team WINS 7 out of 10 domination matches.
Sincerely with all my admiration and respect to all of the PvP community who are about to die
I SALUTE YOU!
Norisman@Norisman
lvl60 DC/AC Faithful/Virtuous Hybrid Build/ Spec for PvP Team Support
D&D Neverwinter Online PvP Enthusiast
Time Played 22 months from closed beta to present date.
As long as it is just you fighting and dying at your home node than it is okay (to a point). It keeps the point contested and keeps a good TR occupied and stops him from causing trouble at the other nodes. Just make sure you are winning on the other nodes though.
Holding nodes wins PVP. Every capped node is a node you failed to defend and lost. Nothing irritates me more than watching 2/3/4 people on my team swinging across the map like a pendulum. Nobody cares if the 4 of you have just capped 3 when seconds later the red team arrives back there and starts flipping it again. Flip a node and hold it. These players that end up with 6000 points and on a losing team because all they done was run from node to node capping drive me insane.
1 to 1
1 to 3
Rest at mid, with one peeling off to help out at 1 or 3 when mid is safely secured.
If the enemy team is stupid and starts sending more players to their home node then you send more of your own players there to kill them faster.
yeah... the TR backcapping your base is just going to stay there and not come help his team mates in either of the two nodes while your base is red and gaining his team points.
your advice is even more terrible than his. I knew this "PVP" section would be filled with clueless pvers giving horrible advice.
regards