Any time a player leaves the group, he leaves the group at a disadvantage. A TR camped out on the back node leaves his team contesting the other two nodes 4v5. That is NOT good strategy. And unless the other team is incompetent, a player off lone rangering is going to get killed before he can accomplish anything. As I keep saying the best strategy is to buddy up to CAP nodes. We are talking about groups of 2 or 3. Decoying is usually bad strategy. If you do not SUCCEED at capping nodes, you are losing the game.
We are repeating ourselves but that is ok. In a pug, back capping is not just about gaining points for your team but forcing the other team to send someone back there just to cap it. So while a red player is capping their own node you have a man advantage on the other nodes. The more people from the red team who go back on their own node and all just stand there while it is capped, the better. If the whole red team goes back that is best. Because now you got them pinned at the very extreme boundary of their own territory.
Think of it like any other territory control game. Like a war game. If you keep an enemy countries army contained within its own borders for the duration of the war, you not only keep your own country, but the one that lies between you and your enemy. You've dominated the map.
I guess it sounded like is was saying "flip nodes." If you look at earlier posts my argument has been that players shouldn't leave the enemy node until it has been capped. I never said anything about running about helterskelter. My argument was to stay in groups and fight ON the nodes. If you want to interpret it differently, so be it. Though you could have been a little less rude. Your advice to HOLD nodes rather than chase around after them is useful. Good for you.
I think he means he hates matches when his whole team moves from node to node as a group, swinging across the ma like a pendulum. Because in all honesty that is a game where that group always has only one of 3 nodes capped. A quick loss.
I think he means he hates matches when his whole team moves from node to node as a group, swinging across the ma like a pendulum. Because in all honesty that is a game where that group always has only one of 3 nodes capped. A quick loss.
Much appreciate your diplomatic tone, by the way. That might be right. But I think that a "whole team" moving from "node to node" is extremely RARE in Domination. Happens a lot in Gauntlgrym, though.
We are repeating ourselves but that is ok. In a pug, back capping is not just about gaining points for your team but forcing the other team to send someone back there just to cap it. So while a red player is capping their own node you have a man advantage on the other nodes. The more people from the red team who go back on their own node and all just stand there while it is capped, the better. If the whole red team goes back that is best. Because now you got them pinned at the very extreme boundary of their own territory.
This is not lost on me. In fact, I'll decoy. If my team gets bogged down at the center node, I'll back cap. Though that seems to me like a desperation measure. I imagine that TRs and DCs are different. But from my experience, good things happens for players in groups. Bad things happen when they go their separate ways.
As long as it is just you fighting and dying at your home node than it is okay (to a point). It keeps the point contested and keeps a good TR occupied and stops him from causing trouble at the other nodes. Just make sure you are winning on the other nodes though.
A beginner is going to just love the experience of taking on a "good TR" alone. Have you considered that TRs are MUCH easier to handle with help? Much less effective in a firefight than as lone assassins.
I guess it sounded like is was saying "flip nodes." If you look at earlier posts my argument has been that players shouldn't leave the enemy node until it has been capped. I never said anything about running about helterskelter. My argument was to stay in groups and fight ON the nodes. If you want to interpret it differently, so be it. Though you could have been a little less rude. Your advice to HOLD nodes rather than chase around after them is useful. Good for you.
I was responding to your comment that you should buddy up and cap in groups of 2 or 3. I don't think that is wise. If 2 or 3 players, or 40 - 60% of your team's fighting strength, is moving around in a group from one node to another, you are reducing the balance of your team to mismatches on 2 of the other nodes. Sure, if you have substantial gear or know how to play your TR you can survive 2 or 3 players, but the vast majority of PVPers cannot be expected to last on their own.
I have been that toon that has been left alone on a node after we just capped it. The result? The 2 or 3 enemy players we just killed start arriving back after re-spawning, killing me and retaking the node while my team has 2 - 3 people messing around at nodes 1 or 3.
That is why I advocate no more than 2 people being sent to 1 and 3 if the match is still hotly contested.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
A beginner is going to just love the experience of taking on a "good TR" alone. Have you considered that TRs are MUCH easier to handle with help? Much less effective in a firefight than as lone assassins.
That is exactly what the TR wants. You are playing right in to his/her hand by sending a group to fight it. If you cannot clear that TR with 2 or 3 people quickly, you will lose the match making use of that tactic.
And sometimes the best thing a weak player can do for his team is play the roll of sacrificial lamb. Cannon fodder can still momentarily stall a node and stop it ticking for the enemy team.
This is not lost on me. In fact, I'll decoy. If my team gets bogged down at the center node, I'll back cap. Though that seems to me like a desperation measure. I imagine that TRs and DCs are different. But from my experience, good things happens for players in groups. Bad things happen when they go their separate ways.
It is a viable tactic. I was in match where we were falling behind because we had the two weaker TRs in the match and they could not hold/contest the enemy home node by themselves. I was on my GF and I decided to rotate out and backcap. The result was they needed 3 people to kill me. If they sent 2 I could troll them long enough to force an advantage at the other nodes. We came back and won that match.
And we are not talking about asking the 8k GWF to go backcap. A player that has suitable skill and/or gear can and should backcap or at least harass the enemy home node.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
That is exactly what the TR wants. You are playing right in to his/her hand by sending a group to fight it. If you cannot clear that TR with 2 or 3 people quickly, you will lose the match making use of that tactic.
And sometimes the best thing a weak player can do for his team is play the roll of sacrificial lamb. Cannon fodder can still momentarily stall a node and stop it ticking for the enemy team.
I still say this kind of sucks, at least from the perspective of the sacrificial lamb. And when I was speaking of a firefight, I was thinking of a 5 on 5 full scale battle to take a node. TRs are not really very good at that. When visible, at close quarters, they are one of the easiest classes to handle, though Daze can sure cause problems.
Edit: I'm a Trapper. And when I come up upon a TR with another player on top of him, I know the battle is over. I trap him. Get on top of him, and between the two of us he's almost always dead.
In the beginning TR was able to kill you quite easy, while he was perma, if he had good gear. We had a beast of a TR on our home node, killing ppl even 2 or 3v1. I went there ALONE with my CW time and time again, getting killed. He posted 'dont you learn'. I replied 'I know, that I cant kill you, but I can cap'.
This is a teamfight. If you are not overgeared, your contribution to the fight does not show on leaderboard, if you do the backcapping. While the PuGs run in a crowd from 1 to 2 capping and chasing kills, you die time and time again backcapping fighting 1v2 or 3.
One of the worst trolls of the game is, when you did carry a bunch of PuGs by contesting and fighting 1v2 or 3 most of the time, telling them to do something and they insult you like 'LOL, look at your points n**b, ltp'. If the insult is reaching a certain level, I tell them to backcap themself and go to 1 or 2, like the rest. If not one of them steps up, the game is lost 90% of the times. I dont care about my standing in the leaderboard and some ppl dont deserve a win.
Much appreciate your diplomatic tone, by the way. That might be right. But I think that a "whole team" moving from "node to node" is extremely RARE in Domination. Happens a lot in Gauntlgrym, though.
Sure, np. It is rare but it happens. It is the "stick together" method taken too far lol.
This is not lost on me. In fact, I'll decoy. If my team gets bogged down at the center node, I'll back cap. Though that seems to me like a desperation measure. I imagine that TRs and DCs are different. But from my experience, good things happens for players in groups. Bad things happen when they go their separate ways.
The way I see it there are a few tiers of domination pvp, all else being equal- The most basic where both teams cap their own node first and meet at 2 and slug it out and it really just becomes who holds 2 the longest. Next would be the occasional back capping to force a red team member back to gain and advantage on the other nodes.
After that is the auto-back cap, which to me, a TR should ALWAYS back cap. Why? Because the worst thing that can happen there is capping an empty node and forcing red team to send people back. The best is tying the entire enemy team up there long enough for your team to reinforce your action. Stealth and ITC and a lot of dodging and that is very very doable.
The last level is when you que a guild premade and fight another guild premade. Everyone knows where they go, there is voice chat usually on a third party voip, and all three nodes are simultaneously covered, home gets two, mid gets two and back cap gets a tr.
Lets say you are running that last tier as a premade against a pug who is running the first tier. Your going to destroy that team. Not just because you are a guild premade coordinating with each other closely, but because you are using a superior strategy. Honestly, I do not think I have ever qued a guild premade, found a pug all on their home node at the start and NOT just totally full 5 man rushed that node. Mid and home node become after thoughts that are capped blue as red team respawns and jumps one by one into a three man meatgrinder on their home node or right outside their campfire.
btw, I just thought of this- anyone checking my stuff and thinking wtf, I have multiple accounts. Overdriver13 (gf,cw,sw,hr), Overddriver (tr, gf), and Ginsublades (gwf,tr). All of those are level 60 and overdriver13 is the newest of the three accounts.
Potions: Hello, I am level 16 and also can't make new threads (I don't think). For potions that increase health, dps-related stats, or other stats, do potions really only drop from PVE instances? Or is there a place I can buy them and also use them in PVP?
Potions: Hello, I am level 16 and also can't make new threads (I don't think). For potions that increase health, dps-related stats, or other stats, do potions really only drop from PVE instances? Or is there a place I can buy them and also use them in PVP?
there are certain potions for pvp that u can buy in the trade of blades, they cost glory.
Potions: Hello, I am level 16 and also can't make new threads (I don't think). For potions that increase health, dps-related stats, or other stats, do potions really only drop from PVE instances? Or is there a place I can buy them and also use them in PVP?
I dunno about level 16, but there are a slew of potions you can buy to boost a stat or heal, in pvp. Pvp healing potions are bought with glory (the pvp currency), the stat boosting pots can be bought with astral diamonds via the auction house.
There is good advice all around. And it should definitely be helpful to newer players. The biggest point I think that has been overlooked in this discussion (please forgive me if it hasn't been), is the fact of when to act in these different ways. It all comes down to what the current score is. The buddy system is great to stick to when you have a comfortable lead. When it is a tight game, sometimes it is much better to split up and have players near every node. When the game is real close it comes down to who can contest better and possibly flip. That is why it's important to split up and "lone ranger" as people are saying, but only sometimes.
It is important for any good PvPer to understand when to switch what node they are on, when to stick around team mates and when to split off, and definitely how to back cap/ properly contest a node. It means Fighting until your last breath ON THE NODE. Learn to back cap as any and all classes you play.
Keep all the info here in mind, but perhaps even more importantly, is learn what all of the classes can do. Pay attention specifically to the people you are facing, watch what encounters they are using, and understand they play style as soon as you can. The initial clash in the beginning of the game, is about getting nodes sure, but really it is about intelligence gathering on your team.
Also, don't forget, you can swap out your powers as long as you are out of combat. This helps you to deal with the different types of players you will find, as well as keep them from every being able to completely adapt to what you are doing, because you keep switching what powers you are using.
Cheers all! And remember, There is no shame in Dying or Running, as long as it serves a strategic purpose in your mind (Keeping yourself alive just so you can get kills is not a strategic purpose) Running away and having enemies chase you to kill you, is a strategic purpose.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Comments
We are repeating ourselves but that is ok. In a pug, back capping is not just about gaining points for your team but forcing the other team to send someone back there just to cap it. So while a red player is capping their own node you have a man advantage on the other nodes. The more people from the red team who go back on their own node and all just stand there while it is capped, the better. If the whole red team goes back that is best. Because now you got them pinned at the very extreme boundary of their own territory.
Think of it like any other territory control game. Like a war game. If you keep an enemy countries army contained within its own borders for the duration of the war, you not only keep your own country, but the one that lies between you and your enemy. You've dominated the map.
I think he means he hates matches when his whole team moves from node to node as a group, swinging across the ma like a pendulum. Because in all honesty that is a game where that group always has only one of 3 nodes capped. A quick loss.
I was responding to your comment that you should buddy up and cap in groups of 2 or 3. I don't think that is wise. If 2 or 3 players, or 40 - 60% of your team's fighting strength, is moving around in a group from one node to another, you are reducing the balance of your team to mismatches on 2 of the other nodes. Sure, if you have substantial gear or know how to play your TR you can survive 2 or 3 players, but the vast majority of PVPers cannot be expected to last on their own.
I have been that toon that has been left alone on a node after we just capped it. The result? The 2 or 3 enemy players we just killed start arriving back after re-spawning, killing me and retaking the node while my team has 2 - 3 people messing around at nodes 1 or 3.
That is why I advocate no more than 2 people being sent to 1 and 3 if the match is still hotly contested.
That is exactly what the TR wants. You are playing right in to his/her hand by sending a group to fight it. If you cannot clear that TR with 2 or 3 people quickly, you will lose the match making use of that tactic.
And sometimes the best thing a weak player can do for his team is play the roll of sacrificial lamb. Cannon fodder can still momentarily stall a node and stop it ticking for the enemy team.
It is a viable tactic. I was in match where we were falling behind because we had the two weaker TRs in the match and they could not hold/contest the enemy home node by themselves. I was on my GF and I decided to rotate out and backcap. The result was they needed 3 people to kill me. If they sent 2 I could troll them long enough to force an advantage at the other nodes. We came back and won that match.
And we are not talking about asking the 8k GWF to go backcap. A player that has suitable skill and/or gear can and should backcap or at least harass the enemy home node.
Edit: I'm a Trapper. And when I come up upon a TR with another player on top of him, I know the battle is over. I trap him. Get on top of him, and between the two of us he's almost always dead.
This is a teamfight. If you are not overgeared, your contribution to the fight does not show on leaderboard, if you do the backcapping. While the PuGs run in a crowd from 1 to 2 capping and chasing kills, you die time and time again backcapping fighting 1v2 or 3.
One of the worst trolls of the game is, when you did carry a bunch of PuGs by contesting and fighting 1v2 or 3 most of the time, telling them to do something and they insult you like 'LOL, look at your points n**b, ltp'. If the insult is reaching a certain level, I tell them to backcap themself and go to 1 or 2, like the rest. If not one of them steps up, the game is lost 90% of the times. I dont care about my standing in the leaderboard and some ppl dont deserve a win.
Sure, np. It is rare but it happens. It is the "stick together" method taken too far lol.
The way I see it there are a few tiers of domination pvp, all else being equal- The most basic where both teams cap their own node first and meet at 2 and slug it out and it really just becomes who holds 2 the longest. Next would be the occasional back capping to force a red team member back to gain and advantage on the other nodes.
After that is the auto-back cap, which to me, a TR should ALWAYS back cap. Why? Because the worst thing that can happen there is capping an empty node and forcing red team to send people back. The best is tying the entire enemy team up there long enough for your team to reinforce your action. Stealth and ITC and a lot of dodging and that is very very doable.
The last level is when you que a guild premade and fight another guild premade. Everyone knows where they go, there is voice chat usually on a third party voip, and all three nodes are simultaneously covered, home gets two, mid gets two and back cap gets a tr.
Lets say you are running that last tier as a premade against a pug who is running the first tier. Your going to destroy that team. Not just because you are a guild premade coordinating with each other closely, but because you are using a superior strategy. Honestly, I do not think I have ever qued a guild premade, found a pug all on their home node at the start and NOT just totally full 5 man rushed that node. Mid and home node become after thoughts that are capped blue as red team respawns and jumps one by one into a three man meatgrinder on their home node or right outside their campfire.
btw, I just thought of this- anyone checking my stuff and thinking wtf, I have multiple accounts. Overdriver13 (gf,cw,sw,hr), Overddriver (tr, gf), and Ginsublades (gwf,tr). All of those are level 60 and overdriver13 is the newest of the three accounts.
there are certain potions for pvp that u can buy in the trade of blades, they cost glory.
I dunno about level 16, but there are a slew of potions you can buy to boost a stat or heal, in pvp. Pvp healing potions are bought with glory (the pvp currency), the stat boosting pots can be bought with astral diamonds via the auction house.
It is important for any good PvPer to understand when to switch what node they are on, when to stick around team mates and when to split off, and definitely how to back cap/ properly contest a node. It means Fighting until your last breath ON THE NODE. Learn to back cap as any and all classes you play.
Keep all the info here in mind, but perhaps even more importantly, is learn what all of the classes can do. Pay attention specifically to the people you are facing, watch what encounters they are using, and understand they play style as soon as you can. The initial clash in the beginning of the game, is about getting nodes sure, but really it is about intelligence gathering on your team.
Also, don't forget, you can swap out your powers as long as you are out of combat. This helps you to deal with the different types of players you will find, as well as keep them from every being able to completely adapt to what you are doing, because you keep switching what powers you are using.
Cheers all! And remember, There is no shame in Dying or Running, as long as it serves a strategic purpose in your mind (Keeping yourself alive just so you can get kills is not a strategic purpose) Running away and having enemies chase you to kill you, is a strategic purpose.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.