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Domination: How To PVP
overdriver13
Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
I am not writing this because I think the people who need it the most will actually read it, but maybe, just maybe some will. And besides, it is therapeutic to write after being thrown into a clueless pug team.
HOW YOU WIN
Stand on the circle pads until they are all blue. The longer the pad remains blue, the more points your team gets. The longer the pad remains red, the more team the opposing team gets. Pads that are both red and blue are pads which are CONTESTED and are earning neither side points. Pads are otherwise known as NODES. Always, always, always, make sure that all of the pads are either solid blue or contested. DO NOT run to a pad that is filling blue (aka being capped) with one of your team mates on it and no enemies. DO run to a pad that is either red or is CONTESTED.
The first team to get to 1,000 points wins the match.
IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
Some GO TO TIPS
WHEN MORE SOLID COLORED NODES ARE RED THAN BLUE OR IF THERE IS NO SOLID BLUE NODES fight only on a node, thereby CONTESTING it. The general rule is just to not ever fight off node. That is a pretty safe bet but
WHEN MORE SOLID COLORED NODES ARE BLUE THAN RED OR IF THERE IS NO SOLID RED NODES attempt to force the enemy to fight you away from the nodes. That is called kitting and it is the same as kitting in pve. The longer those nodes are blue the more points your team racks up towards the win.
GO TO NODE 2 (THE MIDDLE ONE) FIRST. Just do it. Someone on your team will always go to the node closest to your spawn (home node) so a good rule is to just go to mid first. Doing this, you will have secured your home and will at the very least be fighting for ground in the middle of the battlefield. If you fail to go to node 2 first than you have screwed your team and yourself by giving the enemy 2/3 of the battlefield from the start. WHY *&^%^&**^^ START WITH A (*&%$%& DISADVANTAGE???
DYING ON NODE the most noble of all deaths attainable by a character in all of Neverwinter. YOU DON'T LOSE POINTS BY DYING ON NODE BUT INSTEAD BUY VALUABLE SECONDS FOR YOUR TEAM TO REINFORCE YOUR ACTION AND PROPERLY CONTEST A NODE. So whether that is you running in against the entire other team and getting crushed like a bug, or whether it is you facing off alone against a single enemy player you know can and will beat you, contest and dominate that node or die trying. That is how you win.
CLASS ROLES IN DOMINATION PVP
Trickster f'ing Rogue. We all know her, some fear her, some hate her, some love her and try to be her but fail. None the less this balls out straight cold killer class is like the quarterback of Domination in its current incarnation. As TR, and especially if you are the only TR on the team, your job is to BACK CAP. That means from the start of the match till the end of the match you relentlessly attack the node closest to the enemy spawn and furthest from your own. That is "backcapping". ALL CLASSES CAN BACK CAP, IF YOU HAVE NO TR ON YOUR TEAM OR A LAME TR THAN YOU NEED TO DO IT YOURSELF, REGARDLESS OF CLASS.
What back capping does is this: IT FORCES THE ENEMY TO CONSTANTLY BE FIGHTING FOR HIS OWN NODE. If he neglects this at any point it is a major victory for your team and you will probably win the match. And whatever enemy is fighting for his own node is an enemy that is not contesting mid node or YOUR home node. A GOOD TR will not be able to flushed from the node by only one enemy, but will require 2 or 3 of the other team to get him gone. So what does it mean when two members of a team are spending most of the match on their own node? It means that the other two nodes only have 3 enemies to contest them vs the 4 remaining players on your team.
TR is also a floating class, which means if the enemies node is capped blue, the TR can/should go and help his team take middle node. If there is more than one TR on a team than the TR who is not back capping should be focused on keeping mid blue or contested and can float to either his home node or to the enemy node as needed.
Tanks
GWF, GF, whichever. Not so hot in 1v1s necessarily, but can be beastly when supported by other classes. Node 2. Plant your butt on 2 and stand and fight as long as possible. NOT A ROAMING role.
DC
Node 2. A healer and a good tank is almost impossible to dislodge from node 2. Mid being the most important node, this is where the DC belongs. DPS DC a bit more flexible and can float more.
HR, CW, SW
Pure floaters. With the exception of SW, this group all are good counters to a TR who is back capping your home node. Otherwise, this group is good to float as needed.
Ok there it is. I am sure I left stuff out, but I am tired of writing now. Any corrections or improvements, or whatever, post below.
One last thing- pvp is not always pleasant. Players will get mad at you if you mess up badly, but mostly IF YOU DO NOT TRY. It is challenging. It is rewarding. If you got the balls, step onto the field and lets see what you got. If not- have fun pushing gremlins off cliffs and glitching dungeons. We each enjoy the game in our own ways.
HOW YOU WIN
Stand on the circle pads until they are all blue. The longer the pad remains blue, the more points your team gets. The longer the pad remains red, the more team the opposing team gets. Pads that are both red and blue are pads which are CONTESTED and are earning neither side points. Pads are otherwise known as NODES. Always, always, always, make sure that all of the pads are either solid blue or contested. DO NOT run to a pad that is filling blue (aka being capped) with one of your team mates on it and no enemies. DO run to a pad that is either red or is CONTESTED.
The first team to get to 1,000 points wins the match.
IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
Some GO TO TIPS
WHEN MORE SOLID COLORED NODES ARE RED THAN BLUE OR IF THERE IS NO SOLID BLUE NODES fight only on a node, thereby CONTESTING it. The general rule is just to not ever fight off node. That is a pretty safe bet but
WHEN MORE SOLID COLORED NODES ARE BLUE THAN RED OR IF THERE IS NO SOLID RED NODES attempt to force the enemy to fight you away from the nodes. That is called kitting and it is the same as kitting in pve. The longer those nodes are blue the more points your team racks up towards the win.
GO TO NODE 2 (THE MIDDLE ONE) FIRST. Just do it. Someone on your team will always go to the node closest to your spawn (home node) so a good rule is to just go to mid first. Doing this, you will have secured your home and will at the very least be fighting for ground in the middle of the battlefield. If you fail to go to node 2 first than you have screwed your team and yourself by giving the enemy 2/3 of the battlefield from the start. WHY *&^%^&**^^ START WITH A (*&%$%& DISADVANTAGE???
DYING ON NODE the most noble of all deaths attainable by a character in all of Neverwinter. YOU DON'T LOSE POINTS BY DYING ON NODE BUT INSTEAD BUY VALUABLE SECONDS FOR YOUR TEAM TO REINFORCE YOUR ACTION AND PROPERLY CONTEST A NODE. So whether that is you running in against the entire other team and getting crushed like a bug, or whether it is you facing off alone against a single enemy player you know can and will beat you, contest and dominate that node or die trying. That is how you win.
CLASS ROLES IN DOMINATION PVP
Trickster f'ing Rogue. We all know her, some fear her, some hate her, some love her and try to be her but fail. None the less this balls out straight cold killer class is like the quarterback of Domination in its current incarnation. As TR, and especially if you are the only TR on the team, your job is to BACK CAP. That means from the start of the match till the end of the match you relentlessly attack the node closest to the enemy spawn and furthest from your own. That is "backcapping". ALL CLASSES CAN BACK CAP, IF YOU HAVE NO TR ON YOUR TEAM OR A LAME TR THAN YOU NEED TO DO IT YOURSELF, REGARDLESS OF CLASS.
What back capping does is this: IT FORCES THE ENEMY TO CONSTANTLY BE FIGHTING FOR HIS OWN NODE. If he neglects this at any point it is a major victory for your team and you will probably win the match. And whatever enemy is fighting for his own node is an enemy that is not contesting mid node or YOUR home node. A GOOD TR will not be able to flushed from the node by only one enemy, but will require 2 or 3 of the other team to get him gone. So what does it mean when two members of a team are spending most of the match on their own node? It means that the other two nodes only have 3 enemies to contest them vs the 4 remaining players on your team.
TR is also a floating class, which means if the enemies node is capped blue, the TR can/should go and help his team take middle node. If there is more than one TR on a team than the TR who is not back capping should be focused on keeping mid blue or contested and can float to either his home node or to the enemy node as needed.
Tanks
GWF, GF, whichever. Not so hot in 1v1s necessarily, but can be beastly when supported by other classes. Node 2. Plant your butt on 2 and stand and fight as long as possible. NOT A ROAMING role.
DC
Node 2. A healer and a good tank is almost impossible to dislodge from node 2. Mid being the most important node, this is where the DC belongs. DPS DC a bit more flexible and can float more.
HR, CW, SW
Pure floaters. With the exception of SW, this group all are good counters to a TR who is back capping your home node. Otherwise, this group is good to float as needed.
Ok there it is. I am sure I left stuff out, but I am tired of writing now. Any corrections or improvements, or whatever, post below.
One last thing- pvp is not always pleasant. Players will get mad at you if you mess up badly, but mostly IF YOU DO NOT TRY. It is challenging. It is rewarding. If you got the balls, step onto the field and lets see what you got. If not- have fun pushing gremlins off cliffs and glitching dungeons. We each enjoy the game in our own ways.
Post edited by overdriver13 on
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Comments
The only thing I'll disagree with you on is this:
The more people standing on a node, the faster it changes. Sometimes the few extra pts that come from flipping it quick makes the difference in a tight game.
Thanks for trying to make people better at this!
- DM
omg. this is the reason why pug fail, because they believe this.
If it is a tight game. Then you should never under any circumstances have 2 people cap one empty node. You are much needed elsewhere. believe me-
Maybe the difference is that you're making up a situation and assuming I'm talking about the same one. I've seen too many times where 1 person is trying to cap a node, the bad guys are roaming in packs of 2 or 3, and your guys are dying before they ever get a single point out of it. How's that better?
Oh... and I did warn you the experts would show up...
my only problem with it is, why do you think a non perma/semi perma can hold a node against 2 players?
Saw a lot of good TRs that can't hold the node against 1 player (not perma TRs). From most of the matches i did, that there were TRs in my group, if they say that they are not perma/semi when group talk strategy (if they are not bots or really bad pugs) they get the "oh, so you're useless" or "why you're not a perma, we have no one to backcap" attitude.
Is PVP become a perma/semi perma land and no other build is acceptable?
Thanks again for taking the time and post it.
We are always recruiting mature, family-friendly, helpful and courteous people www.guildmedieval.com
If there is a TR or GF on your home node, that you cant burst down fast, because the TR is (nearly) perma stealthed/GF just wont die, dont waste your time trying too. If one enemy manages to keep more than one player of your team busy, it gives the enemy team an advantge and ususally is gamedeciding.
As said above, my GF can usually tie 2-3 people up for a decent amount of time. Smart opponents will just pit their weakest team member against the GF and keep the mode contested.
Of course with the coming changes to regen, the only place left for a GF will probably be node 2.
Also, there is such a major disparity of skill and gear that just one player can make or break a match.
Cool, a civil disagreement. Everytime I cap a node alone, I pray that two of their guys, or hopefully they are stupid enough to send the whole team comes and that they take the five seconds to kill me and all stand on that node like a bunch of dunces together while my team caps the other two nodes uncontested. If it is only two of their guys vs me, the fight takes longer and my team has a 4v3 advantage on the other nodes.
domination pvp is all about forcing odd man advantages for your team and avoiding odd man disadvantages against your team at all costs, including your own characters multiple deaths.
That is how the game is designed and why there is an even number of players on both teams combined but an odd number of nodes: it impossible to divide the players evenly among all the nodes at all times. The key is, always, forcing that design to facilitate your teams win.
Thanks! The original post is meant to keep things as simple as possible. I do think a good perma-daze wk can hold a node for quite a long time against more than one opponent, but in my humble opinion, the optimal build for that is a mi exe. Between stealth, itc, and the capability to remove any single opponent from the node with a single shot, I just think it is optimal. Stealth is an offensive power, not a defensive one as far as I am concerned, and a skilled player will not have much of a problem killing a tr in stealth. You kind of figure out where the tr is and what he is going to do after playing enough pvp against them. Hardcore TR players who have extensive guild v guild premade experience on every tr build might shine more light on that than me though.
Hey thanks-
Backcapping GF's always give me near strokes when they are on my team lol. I think one of the main reason why TR is best suited for the role of back capper is just how easily and quickly it can move between nodes. Like you said, if the home node has a beastly GF standing on it, you ignore him and go after the other nodes on a 5-4 advantage. He is not going to stealth and fly to wreak havoc on 2 like a TR. Granted a good gf with an epic mount and all high darks in his utility slots, who is smart enough to not try to move between nodes unmounted, can be an asset and a backcapper. But that is rare imo and I would advise against newer/more casual pvp players from trying that with their GF.
You are right and I do everything I can as a player to push a team first mentality. People turn there nose up and roll their eyes at this, but the leaderboard does mean something and you don't climb it with more losses than wins, though with many more wins than losses, you can have more deaths than kills and still move way up.
Also.....also god help the pug who on my team in match 1 snipes and hides and runs from fights to up his k/d regardless of the loss because in match 2 when he is on the other team I will torture him mercilessly. People qq about premades, well that is why people form premades- to win matches and keep out people who dont care about winning and only care about their own kill/death ratio. That and the perceived dimness/lack of game of casual pugs is why premades often shred pugs without pity. They remember when those kinds of players were on their teams and made them lose. They remember dying 2x more than killing to win matches with witless idiots on their team who cap-leech and hide and avoid the fight.
True enough :-)
As said, its backcapping as GF is only a solution, if no one else in your team is capable to do it, because either they die in seconds on the enemy node or no one wants to do the job. If you do it, you have to pray, that the enemy either wastes his best player to keep you company, or send several players to play with you. Also to be frank, i dont see to many people on PvP, who build their tank (well) for defense/support. I have a feeling that they still want to play the GF as damagedealer in pvp, a role the top players might still be able to pull of (but even then not as well as TRs or HRs) but generally hasnt been a role a GF can easily fullfill for a quite some time.
Oh i can still remember the tears of desperation after the last great rework of the GF (when the shieldmechanic was changed to its current form) from a couple of players, especially a certain HR, who is usually to find in the top 5 leaderboard pages, that the GF would absolutly murder now any opponent. Yes, that came from the back then most powerfull PvP class, a title, which the class still contests with the TR in my eyes. My own TR is usually to find in the top 10 pages, my GF a bit behind, though thats mainly due to me playing him less often in pvp then my TR. In terms of win loss ratio, my GF is actually quite a bit better then my TR, probably because the GF is a support machine that can enhance the performance of the whole team, something the TR cant.
The perfect mix between concise, figurative and elaborate where necessary... ...to even make TRs a) understand and b) accept your dicta, I think. Ah, the power of cajoling :rolleyes:
The only good occasion where double capping is right is if the node is going to be contested for long times in order to not bleed points if knocked out of it constantly.
Not perma tr is the pure incarnation of useless toon hitting like a wet noodle especially in mod 6 with scoundrel overnerfed
Thanks again for your instructive post too; I wish I could print it out and hand it to people in-game. Last night, after wrapping up a semi-long match, one of my pug teammates stuck around a few minutes to recap, and he mentioned several times how he was amazed that we didn't win. "We kept winning all the fights!", he'd say. "Yes - but they were in random places in the field, while the nodes ticked points to the other team the entire time", I responded. Silence... He honestly had no idea how points were scored. At least he seemed teachable...
Yeah potions for pvp are different. You have to buy them with glory at the pvp vendor in protector enclave
You have to use pvp healing potion in pvp maps. You can buy them with glory from pvp vendor in trades of blades, or market.
thank you!
Well said, not much to ad to that.
Haha, hey thanks! Ya TR is really like the quarterback of the team and I can't imagine an american football game where the quarterback is throwing the ball to the other team, getting a million interceptions and losing every game and saying, "well hey, my pass completion rating is super high!" aaaaggghhh!!
I agree with this, and the op was to keep things simple. When I was heavy into guild premades (past life around mod 3 before I took a long break) the set up was me and another team mate on home node (my hr and a severely overgeared and highly skilled GF) vs the TR which naturally was going to camp that node the entire match, the dc and the (then OP) IV Sent gwf on 2, and our teams tr on the enemy node. My job as hr was essentially to shadow the TR on the other team who was tasked with trolling our node and to help at 2 as needed.
That is when matches could go 90 minutes due to class balance despite cries of op gwf and hr. No thanks. I would rather have a more offensive minded, fast paced game than a defensive minded slow slog like they used to be.
Right on. I am trying to push simple and easy to digest. Ya pugs don't get it a lot of the time. Before the gate goes down I really try to say in party chat, "Hey guys
Yep, rayrdan got you covered. I wanna ad that in your bracket to heal, if you can, stack regen and lifesteal. Otherwise, go to one of the several healing pots scattered throughout the arena. When I get a toon to 20's bracket, I always get the waters as an arty and get it to purple asap just for the on-demand heal without spending glory for pots. There are much better options for arties if you feel like spending money, but the waters are free, give you a little stat boost and like I said, have the on-demand healing.
One player on home node at beginning of the game is OK. Enemy node, no way. 9 times out of 10 one player will not be enough to hold the node. (TRs might be an exception.) Further, I say that any time a player is off somewhere alone (like standing on a node), he's doing something wrong, though I would never use the words "under no circumstances."
Edit: Two examples from today's PvP:
Example 1: I follow one of my guys to the enemy mode. He leaves when I arrive. I sit there for an eternity waiting for it to cap. Just before it caps I get bum rushed, 3 on 1. Cap needlessly lost.
Example 2: I follow one of my guys to the enemy mode. We sit together waiting for it to cap. He gets one shotted by a TR, but I am able to root the TR, kill him, resuscitate my guy, and cap the node. Then the two of us, off together, join the fight at the center mode.
Thats the best part of it !
Split them up. PuG teams hang around with the faithful, bc they dont want to die. If there are 5 of them on mid, capture and contest 1 and 3 constantly and contest 2.
CWs should slot repel, to push the DC out of his astral shield.
If by luck skill or due to the fact, that one of the enemy players decided to stop playing bc he had to 'call his mate and boast about his amazing PvP skills' (you can instert any other reason here. I know, that RL is more important, but it still sucks for his/her team), GO TO THEIR SPAWN POINT. Stop them from contesting any node. A PuG fight is over in 99% of the matches if 5 ppl contest their spawn point.
Last but not least, dont be a ***. If the match is over and one of them asks for a 1v1, let them do it. Same goes for TRs sneaking out of the base in a lost fight, to get some oneshots. If you dont forfit and ask for a 1v1, dont complain about 5 ppl killing you, if you sneaked up to one of them to get a cheap kill. BTW it is not a 1v1, if the enemy HR spams fox, the DC sneaks in a heal or the renegade CW triggers his buffs 'by accident'.
Plenty of room for civil debate about this. I think it is situational, but a good general rule is one player to cap an empty node. Why?
your examples:
1. You (on the back cap alone) get bum rushed by three players of the enemy team. It takes 10 seconds of them traveling from other places on the map to reach you, 15 seconds for them to kill you, and another 10 seconds to cap the node. In those 35 seconds your team has used the 4v2 advantage you've given them to cap your home node, cap 2, and start moving towards the back cap, or at the very least, reinforcing mid. Good job!
2. Two of you back cap, leaving the rest of your team at a 5v3 disadvantage, 20 seconds later you capped that node, but the enemy has won and capped both your home node and mid, because you left them at a severe disadvantage. You charge off of the back cap towards 2 and are met between them by a 5 of the other team, who dispatch you quickly at 5v2, 1 of them caps their home node and the other 4 go to 2 and grind your team down one by one as they rush out of spawn to 2.
If the enemy team is not terrible, that is what they do.
It is all about giving your team a numerical advantage on other nodes for as long as possible.
So many times I am able to draw 3 or 4 or 5 of other team to me, to last at least ten seconds, and I look up and not another node is capped. Or my team tries to rush to my aid instead of capping the other nodes because, in your words, they don;t want that node to be "needlessly lost".
That drives me insane and leads to some less than polite party chat lol.
Yep...dc's tend to hang on 2 in pugs so it is easy to just keep the ends capped. Imo a really good dc can determine the outcome of a game entirely by himself. That is really the only class that can do that. People hate TR's but I think dc trumps tr, all else being equal.