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Feedback (To Players): "Losing" RP With New Artifact Gear
arakk00
Member Posts: 166 Arc User
This is a public service announcement! There's a lot of confusion about what happens with upgrading artifact weapons. So, I'll lay it out simply.
You're keeping 75% of the LEVELS. Math on the forums here puts that at about 40% of the RP put in the item. More importantly:
YOU ARE NOT 'LOSING' 60% OF THE RP YOU PUT INTO THE ITEM. You are paying it.. For a direct upgrade. With the bonuses it gives, your Legendary Golden Dragon weapon is better than most mod6 weapons- with the exception of the mod6 artifact weapons! You can toss your Golden Dragon weapon into a mod6 Elemental Fire weapon to INSTANTLY gain 48 levels- purple tier. You now have to put a lot more RP into it to get a Legendary again, sure- but the color shouldn't matter! That purple tier weapon is a far sight better just on stats than your Golden Dragon one, has a better bonus, a better set bonus, and directly increases on the Weapon Damage. You're going from a 'viable' mod5 piece of gear being used in mod6 to ONE STEP BELOW 'max tier'.
So if you're complaining that you're losing RP- stop. You're not, noone is forcing you to upgrade- but if you do upgrade, what would in other games be trash or a trophy becomes a 'get ahead free' button. You get a direct upgrade instantly. In other games with more item bloat (say, WoW), this translates from farming/buying on the web a 0.00001% droprate item AND paying a sub ($15/mo), then having a new expansion released. In WoW, you use your old gear til you farm the new, 0.0000000000000001% droprate item. In Neverwinter, if you have the previous item, the 'droprate" goes from 0.0000000000000001% to 0.0001% While it still looks awful, you should keep in mind- this is a new item, a better item, and you're getting a head start on it from people who have to farm one up from scratch. Upgrading your Golden Dragon weapon will INSTANTLY put you a few million RP below THE BiS weapon for mod6- so keep that in mind.
You're keeping 75% of the LEVELS. Math on the forums here puts that at about 40% of the RP put in the item. More importantly:
YOU ARE NOT 'LOSING' 60% OF THE RP YOU PUT INTO THE ITEM. You are paying it.. For a direct upgrade. With the bonuses it gives, your Legendary Golden Dragon weapon is better than most mod6 weapons- with the exception of the mod6 artifact weapons! You can toss your Golden Dragon weapon into a mod6 Elemental Fire weapon to INSTANTLY gain 48 levels- purple tier. You now have to put a lot more RP into it to get a Legendary again, sure- but the color shouldn't matter! That purple tier weapon is a far sight better just on stats than your Golden Dragon one, has a better bonus, a better set bonus, and directly increases on the Weapon Damage. You're going from a 'viable' mod5 piece of gear being used in mod6 to ONE STEP BELOW 'max tier'.
So if you're complaining that you're losing RP- stop. You're not, noone is forcing you to upgrade- but if you do upgrade, what would in other games be trash or a trophy becomes a 'get ahead free' button. You get a direct upgrade instantly. In other games with more item bloat (say, WoW), this translates from farming/buying on the web a 0.00001% droprate item AND paying a sub ($15/mo), then having a new expansion released. In WoW, you use your old gear til you farm the new, 0.0000000000000001% droprate item. In Neverwinter, if you have the previous item, the 'droprate" goes from 0.0000000000000001% to 0.0001% While it still looks awful, you should keep in mind- this is a new item, a better item, and you're getting a head start on it from people who have to farm one up from scratch. Upgrading your Golden Dragon weapon will INSTANTLY put you a few million RP below THE BiS weapon for mod6- so keep that in mind.
A <Friendly Dragon>!
Post edited by arakk00 on
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i find it so funny that there is so much anger at a direct upgrade. people, stop thinking because something isn't max level that it's not still BETTER than what your previous max level item, AND CONTINUES TO BE BETTER AS YOU REFINE IT FURTHER!
But not calling it a loss is just.. not appropriate . If at mod 3 (I think) I had 4mil RP and I used it on my weapon and now do the feeding thing I have the value of 40% of it, it's a loss. It's clearly visible vs a person that took a break and still has that RP, in mod 6 he/she will have a level 60 vs mine 48. I had something, now i have 60% less, and yes it was due to my investment in that weapon that i've used.
For example, lets assume I've invested in a stock (1 stock = 1$) that now lost half it's value, now i have an option to trade it for bonds or something else that is better at 1:1 rate ( one bond price is 0.5$). Yes i Have something better, I have 50 bonds that will give me more than that stock, but if i have not invested in it, i would have now 100 bonds . And that was a bad investment and it's called a loss.
(sorry if my example not the most accurate but i think it depicts the semantics)
I'm not saying something should be different, or that we do not get a better item, but we did invest RP in an item and lost value of that RP same way we lost money in the example above. We should call it a loss and move on. And probably invest smarter next time (fallen dragon weapon had better base damage than the artifact few preview updates ago - didn't check recently)
Some can argue that I used the weapon vs that person who did not, and it's true too, you can look at it as rent or loss if value due to usage.. I think it's called depreciation, but it is a type of loss.
It is what it is. calling it a price or something else is unnecessary and inaccurate.
We can just accept that loss, upgrade thee artifact and move on..
You have two tiers of Artifact Weapons now. Dragon and Elemental. Every point spent in the higher Elemental tier is worth more than the Dragon tier. But you're able to exchange the RP invested in your Dragon tier for points towards your Elemental tier at a 4:10 ratio.
It would be like if another game, say WoW, released a new tier of raid content, but allowed hardcore raiders to exchange a portion of their raid gear towards the new BiS. They don't though, they make you start completely from scratch.
At least here Cryptic is allowing you to cash in some of that value.
In other MMOs you beat a boss 99% of the time spent (fun), get the item, equip it, maybe some upgrades 1% of your time and you are done. Next module, new boss, new items.
Here you get the artefact gear, 1% of the work, get the RP points etc, 90% of time spent (no fun) and you refine (no fun), 9%. For the new gear you will have to regrind 60%, no fun.
Furthermore there has been a statement, that the artefact gear wont get obolete. Well it will still do some dmg and it gives 40% of the invested RPs, but the gear itself is for highend content obolete.
Can you find the quote were a Dev specifically said this?
We had this discussion before in another thread, I did not find the quote itself, just a Mods post, who said something like 'yes we said that, but the artefact gear is not obsolete'. That one I posted there. I wont search for it or the Mods post again.
I remember reading it, some other players remember reading it and a Mod confirmed it. Thats good enough for me.
1. The refining process itself sucks, big time. Worst UI in the history of mankind.
2. The refining point is expensive.
Upgrade or not, loss is loss. Besides, when you speak of upgrade, you are comparing stat to stat, which is relative to game content, and cannot be compared simply from a value standpoint.
Here we have a loss. Period.
Yes yes yes, value of time when u were able to use certain item coz it was BiS. That only work when company do not kill its produckt like in first 10min of it life circle with next product. I hope u guys know what is product life circle, and how it works? Well here it was just murdered.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Now, RP aside... it is bull**** that we will have to buy more of those 12.5k cubes.... and god knows how many its going take to get the same bonuses we had before. I think that if you stick your dragon OH into the elemental OH that it should at least transfer the one you are currently using.
lol what a pathetic analogy.
im losing rp.
and to be fair i dont know for how many mods i can handle this.
Yeah- here's the thing. You were WRONG if you expected to buy that piece of artifact gear like a savings bond. You aren't getting use out of a savings bond- a better metaphor, if you need one, is a car. You've driven this one around and it's still 'road-safe'- an orange Golden Dragon weapon is marginally better than a green Elemental Fire and potentially a blue one; it's still high-tier gear for mod6, just no longer BiS. Upgrading it gives you a purple version of the Elemental Fire weapon immediately. If you want the orange color again, the BiS absolute? Yes, you have to put more into it. But you'll see one enchantment slot and a few stat points of difference- the primary enchant slot, the feature, most of the stats are unlocked. Upgrading your weapon at 70 will instantly give you the best weapon anyone will have for a while. Hitting Legendary is just trophy status, as always- and Cryptic needs the support of people paying for that trophy status. If they just GAVE you a stronger, better, faster 'new car' for your used Golden Dragon weapon... Where would they sell you RP? Wards? Prompt you to open lockboxes?
You're complaining because you overspent on a trophy item and don't feel you got enough of a return on the NEW TROPHY ITEM. That's just silly. The new purple weapon (what you're getting trading in your orange one) is the BiS weapon until people get the orange one. You are paying/refining again for BRAGGING RIGHTS, essentially. After all, you're using that weapon you 'take a loss' on to FIGHT the bosses you're farming RP/items (ad) from. It's a very powerful weapon that noone else will have for a long while.
What everyone is missing here is that the 'loss' of that trophy-status-gaining RP is a balancing factor; these artifact weapons can be used in PvP, and you're getting that boost up first. They're a few stat points short of BiS for PvE, even if that's a lot of RP. Again, you're getting that INSTANTLY, provided you have the refining stones. And this is AFTER you got to use that Golden Dragon weapon as the BiS item it is on live for whatever amount of time- sorry about your luck if you just refined it the day Mod6 was announced. You're losing the RP for the advantage over other players it gives you to get that boost, essentially.
That is, if you're not getting 75% of the ACTUAL RP VALUE. I don't think anyone has considered- Mod6 is supposed to have more RP available for artifacts. 75% of levels would be level 45... It would make sense for these new artifacts to cost more, and with the stat curves being adjusted, it would also make sense if the new refining curves were a little more uniform. So don't quit before your chickens hatch because you're getting an upgrade that you STILL HAVE TO IMPROVE. That's the only way Cryptic can make their money with the limitations they have.
P.S. Yeah, new artifact weapons when they don't even have set bonuses is kinda a money sink, because they're hoping to stagger AD/RP farming bots enough that people will actually spend ZEN. As a mini PSA: This is because people buy from those bots. This takes money away from cryptic and means they have to create fresh money sinks with each set of countermeasures.
Thats acctualy my point, tbh all i want to have is 4x r35, nothing more, but now i also have 4 x r35, which will make me end up with r26 items or so, i will need to farm this again, im rly about to puke with all this rp farming, and i wont pay 10$ for 150k rp, thats r robbery (well 5$, point not changed) + also farming for my weap/armor enchants to trans (ehh not having them at this lvl will be a huge lost, unfortunetly).
So for me, even with 40% come back (i rly hope for 80% on double rp), any further need to farm rp is a big turn off.
Saying this right now. Dont u dare to give us better Arti items i mod7. I will accept purples or legend farmable items on lvl of mod6 epic artis, but nothing more.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
also that fact that with all the new stuf we have to refine our refining stones are doing less before artifact gear we had 17 things to pour our stones into( 3 artifacts and 14 enchants )
now we have 28 items to refine( 4 artifacts 4 artifact gear 20 enchants)
so yes everyone is upset over the feeling of being mislead and on top of all of that they nerfed stones by increasing there cool down
Yeah, for searching purpose, this guy is called "new dung difiuculty lvl". But u always can either run 4h unsuccessful CC, or just sit those 4h in PE. Thats the option left for ppl like u now.
Geez.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
At least I'll be there pushing through it, instead of whining how unfair it is that my BiS gear isnt BiS anymore, even though it is. And what of people like u? What shall you do?
Just to put the numbers out there on my Arti, old legendary vs new epic vs new legendary
Old - legendary
1053 - 1287 Damage
2059 Max HP
3797 Power
515 Life Steal
New - Epic @48
1170 - 1430 Damage
4526 Power
631 Critical Strike
631 Life Steal
New - Legendary
1230 - 1504 Damage
4732 Power
715 Critical Strike
715 Life Steal
>no one's forcing you to upgrade
Yea, the practicality of a horse & buggy in modern times compared to a Cadillac is just...wow.
I'm not sure what's more offensive - The lack of understanding or the sheer nerve.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
old stat curve 3800 power =20% 4500power =30%
new curve 3800 power = 8% 4500 power = 11%
so as you can see the new gear is clearly just ajusted for the new stat curve but is overall a big down grade from mod 5
we go from 20% to 11 %
And for those of saying saving rp would have given more more worth? Such is the nature of purchasing. Rp works in effect as currency in the game. The only alternative would be to create inflation to devalue existing rp stones to make them in line with what you get for your artifact gear. Doesn't sound that attractive does it?
What's more a problem is that the growing amount of rp needed for BIS is effectively devaluing their own rp products. Some thought ought be put towards keeping rubies attractive to customers in order to keep up revenue. Which, after all, is what allows us to have this game.
Not mentioning, that new curves r killing what u saing about getting more.
And u know what will i do? I will go on GF and just rage trough any given dungen. I can do it, but that does not mean i need to accept that they made arti gear obolete after 1 mod (cloaks, offhand), while they promiesed, it will last for quite big amount of time. If they wouldnt say that, i would still run in Dread legion weaps set, and i would doing as good as im doing now in my r35. I would keep my **** rp. even if its only around 6mln. I dont want to farm 60% of this again. And i prefer do dung in 30 min, and i will, while u will sit ther for 4h and eventualy give up "coz u dont need to be BiS" (geez u guys r overusing "BiS").
And yes, new artis made previous one obsolete, u proved this by yourself, just by giving stats. Its not like buying iphone 3 while iphone 6 is on, its buying iphone 3 month before iphone 6 for the price of iphone 6 (sorry for iphone example, could not find nothing easyer, maybe beside buying psx month before px4 caoming out, for the price of ps4, what? u can still play games!). Thats the **** diffrence (both r usable, both have almost the same functions, but u just got, literaly, fooled).
Geez. Kids those days.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
They said at some point that "artifact equipent will go now to r140" and thats how it shoudl stay. No new artis, just 20 more lvls. But noooo, they needed to change they mind, and introduce brand new artis, forcing us to do evrything all over again. In first place we should not get new artis. Only upgrade on old ones.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
And by looking at a bigger picture like stats curves and not just weapon stats i feel obliged to mention that one of their purposes with this mod is to present a challenge again, not just allow people to walk into the best of everything right away and have no challenge at all... I'm so bored on live that i treat the game like nothing more than a fancy chat program most of the time, and if mod6 had no added challenge I'd probably be just as bored.
But...but...but... it's on The Internet. It *must* be true.
Random numers:
HiperItem3 cost: 1000$
HiperItem4 cost: 1000$
U finnaly get u 1000$ and bought HiperItem3, they promised it will be they flagship for next 1year, so u bought it 3 month after it came out (price didnt even had time to change, maybe to 998$). Then 4 month after it came out, they introdeced HiperItem4, for the same price. And now how its looks:
HiperItem3 price just broken, so u can resell it for 400$, if u want to buy HiperItem4 u need to put in another 600$. Now... u just made a great deal for 1month usage. They r ofc saying that new, better HiperItem4 will last for 1 year, and they introduced it so soon only, coz it better fit new cutromer exeptions, but if u can trust them, its another story.
Now, what both items r giving (on backround, u have new line of items, called HiperGlassSeries, which after some time of upgrades will do evrything what HiperItem series is doing, but in your head, using ur own imagination, not screen, thats artis which will prolly come out in mod7, but nvm)
HI3 can play games
HI4 can play games in better resolution
HI3 can save games in 8 saveslots
HI4 can save games in 64 save slots
HI3 has only Euro cable
HI4 has HDMI
HI3 works on TV!
HI4 also cooperate with ur PC!
And so going.
All ur friends r already playing on HI4, u can also join them with ur HI3, but they will see that sniper from around 2k m, since they HI4 shows more details, and can operate much more threads, u need to run another 1k m to be able to see that bastid.
Is this also a bad metaphor, what i am missing?
(Sin)cerely
Kain
This would be a very harsh change for new players trying to gear up. One of the benefits from new gear is leveling the playing field between veterans and newcomers somewhat. The gap right now is very divisive and creates frustration all around. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but this somewhat reads as "There should not be any new gear ever", which I'm thinking is not what you mean, and is either way not feasible. When a new mod comes out the people who have everything want something new.
As you can now get rp from actual content all that's really needed is to fix the interface that creates this burning hatred towards the whole process.