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100% Artifact Refinement Points
bigredbrent
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 155 Arc User
Refining an artifact with another artifact should give back 100% of the refinement points.
(This should not get any bonus from a 2x refinement point weekend and should be unable to crit, so that it is not exploitable.)
This is a progression game and it just does not feel right when you lose progression such as refinement points. It's almost worse than if when they raise the level cap, they also took away experience points and made you a level 30 again from level 60, just so you will then be forced to level from 30 to 70.
It really doesn't matter how much items are increased to require more refinement points, just as long as the old refinement points are not lost. Even if items are increased to drastically horrible levels requiring many times more refinement points, it would still be better than making people lose refinement points that they have already earned.
I can see this as a problem that should be addressed sooner rather than later, because I don't see this problem ever completely going away until it is fixed. I honestly believe that this will be a problem with every expansion until this is resolved.
Also, the way it is now, if you decide to switch your equipment to another artifact item of the same item level, you will lose a lot of refining points, but there will be no stat increase. And this without the option of keeping the old item to switch back to if you decide you really don't want the new one, since it is consumed in the refinement process.
The refinement point loss is completely unforgivable when it comes to wanting to try out different equipment.
I am very skeptical about the announcement saying that 75% of the refinement progress is preserved. Is that referring to the item level or the total refinement points? Because, 75% of the item level is not even close to 75% of the refinement points. If they are referring to item level instead of refinement points, then they are either ignorant of what is important to players in this game, or they are being intentionally deceptive.
Evidently it is only 75% of the item level, and that comes out to only 40% of the refinement points returned. With this amount of loss, I can't imagine anyone with legendary equipment not waiting till a 2x refinement point weekend to refine their new artifact equipment.
The revised announcement does not sound much clearer. It pretty much sounds like they don't want to outright say that you will only get back 40% of your refinement points, unless during a 2x refinement point weekend where you might get back 80% of your refinement points.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9113833-neverwinter-dev-blog%3A-new-artifact-gear-and-item-changes
(This should not get any bonus from a 2x refinement point weekend and should be unable to crit, so that it is not exploitable.)
This is a progression game and it just does not feel right when you lose progression such as refinement points. It's almost worse than if when they raise the level cap, they also took away experience points and made you a level 30 again from level 60, just so you will then be forced to level from 30 to 70.
It really doesn't matter how much items are increased to require more refinement points, just as long as the old refinement points are not lost. Even if items are increased to drastically horrible levels requiring many times more refinement points, it would still be better than making people lose refinement points that they have already earned.
I can see this as a problem that should be addressed sooner rather than later, because I don't see this problem ever completely going away until it is fixed. I honestly believe that this will be a problem with every expansion until this is resolved.
Also, the way it is now, if you decide to switch your equipment to another artifact item of the same item level, you will lose a lot of refining points, but there will be no stat increase. And this without the option of keeping the old item to switch back to if you decide you really don't want the new one, since it is consumed in the refinement process.
The refinement point loss is completely unforgivable when it comes to wanting to try out different equipment.
I am very skeptical about the announcement saying that 75% of the refinement progress is preserved. Is that referring to the item level or the total refinement points? Because, 75% of the item level is not even close to 75% of the refinement points. If they are referring to item level instead of refinement points, then they are either ignorant of what is important to players in this game, or they are being intentionally deceptive.
Akromatik wrote:Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress.
Evidently it is only 75% of the item level, and that comes out to only 40% of the refinement points returned. With this amount of loss, I can't imagine anyone with legendary equipment not waiting till a 2x refinement point weekend to refine their new artifact equipment.
Hi everyone! I notice that there's been some confusion some material written in the refinement blog. The part that reads:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
should have specified that it was refinement level rather than overall refinement points. The sentence has since been updated to:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress."
My deepest apologies for the confusion.
The revised announcement does not sound much clearer. It pretty much sounds like they don't want to outright say that you will only get back 40% of your refinement points, unless during a 2x refinement point weekend where you might get back 80% of your refinement points.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9113833-neverwinter-dev-blog%3A-new-artifact-gear-and-item-changes
Akromatik wrote:Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress.
Post edited by bigredbrent on
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Comments
Another benefit of this would allow people to more easily switch between different artifacts to see witch one they like more without being hit with a huge rp loss just to swap out one similar item for another.
It would all around be the RIGHT way to make this work, and to be honest it will never be RIGHT until it is done this way. This is just something that will always need to be done until it is.
YOU don't care. People who joined the game recently do. They have to be able to catch up somehow. The results would be the same for you, but not for new players. This is really an idiotic suggestion.
The artifact weapon set is a straight upgrade from what we have on live now. There is a lot more power and damage. Since it's an upgrade then expect to have to play or pay to get it at max rank.
That is an opinion that I obviously do not share. They could implement this and if necessary revise things around this to get the desired result. This is not only a good suggestion, it is the only suggestion that would ultimately solve this particular issue forever and would never need to be addressed again. I foresee this being a problem over and over again in the future until it is done this way. This is ultimately the only logical way to handle this.
I'd opt for another way: If you're using the non-prefixed version on a greater whatnot, you should get the x2 bonus - just like with type-identical enchantments.
Example: Using Belt of Black Ice to up Greater Belt of Black Ice - x2 RP yield of the current list value. Belt of Black Ice into (Greater) Belt of Lathander? Nooooo cookies.
... a kind of compromise path, but with an internal logic used elsewhere in the game.
With the 100% recovery as global rule, you'd undermine the whole ArtiGear system: People would switch between FotM belts and cloaks like there's no tomorrow, hence that 100% recuvery cannot be (from what I assume to be a dev's viewpoint...).
I don't see the problem with being able to switch artifact gear. It isn't like you would be able to keep the old one, because it is used up. And you also need to use up other items for the refinement process as well, and that could get costly if you did that too often. Being able to switch artifact gear without losing RP would be a very beneficial bonus to this, and I don't see a down side to that.
Refinement points has nothing of this, its just an artificial way, an obligation to farm, implemented by developers, just to slow down players and forcing them to spend stupidly more time to get their BiS gear.
Old model: You want a T2 chest armour to replace your old T1 set chest? Off to the Temple of Spiders you go! Bracers to this? Then you must go to and visit Karrundax. You invest playtime, do "work". Over and over until you get lucky.
New Model: All is acquired via unified Seals (or campaign tokens/ressource) and you can choose where to invest these - for armour. Once that stuff is spent you're set. No trading it back.
For Weapon, and off-hand, we now get the slight boost that those are acquired by a mere task. But we only get the base model, have to invest playtime, do "work" - get RP - to boost it up to a better weapon or off-hand. Or, too, to change its special power or switch between weapon "types" - Cubes of Augmentation are the tokens there. This easy availability right now is to some extent done to mollify / attenuate / sweeten the shock of the level cap upgrade. remember how much investment of playtime, "work", had to be invested for your first Artifact weapon...
For neck, belt, and artifacts there's a similar situation. Just there you have to choose before we You invest playtime, do "work" boosting it up. Remember that in Mod 4 you had to do this with your first artifact wepon, too...
Like the RL money: You work, you get currency. As opposed to bartering goods. You work at a factory producing e.g. toasters - You invest playtime, nah... ....time, do work, and instead of getting a toaster each day, which, to some extent, the old model was like, you get tokens, little pieces of paper the government prints.
So far so good, but one thing in common: The moment you use these tokens to get someting with a practical use, they're gone. You might, or might not be able to do the same in reverse and sell the stuff again for - most of the time, unless you're real good at suckering or put more work, like transport or modifications or somesuch into the ware, later trade it for a somewhat smaller amount of tokens. In the real world. In this (and many other) MMOs this path is blocked because stuff is "BoP".
Why? Because if this were not the case, then everybody would have one set of top-level gear and pass that between his or her characters. This would kill the economy - too little turnover. Quite soon every player would have everything, and then the game dies. There are some other workarounds, like offering an immense bandwidth of items, but those tend to lead to a dead end, too.
Now what you are asking for here is to recycle your tokens - RP - over and over with no loss. basically the same story as before, just without changing characters inbetween. The drive to play the game would collapse...
Want that all you want - no dev who knows his way around MMOs and their economies will ever agree and implement this nowadays. It's been tried, and it failed. Over and over again.
That's just not true. If they need to make you earn more rp to keep you grinding, then just increase the item level to require more. I know a lot of people are not a fan of that idea, but even more don't like the rp they earned being lost.
I like this post from another thread, and I completely agree with it:
Now an upgrade of level 70 is available and it is more powerful than the level 60 item. Just be glad you can "trade in" your existing level 60 item towards your level 70 item. It will cost you. You don't have to pay the cost. Just keep using your level 60 item.
If putting the level 60 item makes the level 70 item just as powerful, then I think that would be more than fair. The alternative is for the dev to make it so that an even more ungodly amount of RP is needed to max the level 70 item. This would truly be unfair to new players who don't have anything to trade-in.
The only thing I don't like about this situation is the introduction of the level 70 item so soon.
There should be no Double RP weekend.
Instead, more-or-less double available refinement points. One reason for limiting artifact gear refinement to 40% is likely that it can be "abused" during double RP.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
That is exactly what I have thought as well.
I also would not mind getting rid of the 2x refinement point weekends and compensating by increasing how much rp you normally get. I doubt they will ever do that though.
I am not happy at how things are going, and until I am (no mas money from me!)
This almost feels like a scam..
that being said refining is the devil and the sooner it gets phased out the better refining weapons meh its not super bad since you do get a better whackin stick out of it but with 3 new artifact sets its gonna be outrageous and since you dont get a better item when you refine belts necks and artis then its a big ole poo sandwich and I dont wanna bite it
nobody wants to buy your overpriced blood rubies cryptic... stop trying to make paying for better weapons and armor happen mark my words that "ish" is gonna blow up in your face
nobody thinks 20$ for 3/4 of one rank at purple is worth it now if it was 20$ for full legendary weapon or like 30$ for 2 full 140 lev artifacts maybe if you are gonna go P2W go all out. this weasely non commital "well I am not really pay to win" is unbecoming
yes of course there will be your odd Andy Dufresne who will come out clean on the other side but most of us will brooks it and kick out the old end table as we dangle off to other games
I also don't like how if you decide to switch your gear to another artifact item of the same item level, you will lose a lot of refining points, but there will be no stat increase. And this without the option of keeping the old item to switch back to if you decide you really don't want the new one, since it is consumed in the refinement process.
The refinement point loss is completely unforgivable when it comes to wanting to try out different equipment.
I added this point to the main post.
Yes I have to agree, artifact equipment didn't bring anything interesting to the game, sometimes, it even makes it feel like a chore. We use it because we don't really have a choice, but if I could get a legendary item with slightly lesser stats as a loot drop, I'd never use artifact equipment. It's just tedious and it stops us from playing the kind of content we enjoy to play the Chinese farmer's game.
It did seem by design to give the impression that the artifacts were made to last, and (if anything) should be made upgradeable into another expansion. I mean, that is exactly what they did with the regular artifacts that are being made upgradeable to mythic quality. There is a real lack of consistency here.
love it great idea
Thank you.
BUt at the same time there are new level 70 artifacts too.....Have you noticed them. Yep, new artifacts for you to upgrade as well.
Yeah, but you don't really lose refinement points with regular artifacts. On a 2x refinement point weekend you can actually gain refinement points by refining an artifact of the same kind into another artifact.