Every day you get a large amount of *bonus seals* (this is what the DMG is showing you).
Each boss also drops Seals for you (at the appropriate tiers).
Additionally players will have a chance to get personal loot from each boss they down (meaning no more rolling and having people need on everything the boss drops).
I love this change - and forgive me in advance if I'm reading way too much into the semantics, but a couple more questions that came to mind:
1. The DMG was found in the WB. So, what is the AD cost of the DMG?
2. The last line in the description reads "This guide may be re-purchased at any time via the Wondrous Bazaar" Is it a consumable?!?; BoE, BoP, BtA...?
3. "Large amount" of bonus seals - fixed amount for each of the dungeons?
4. "...have a chance to get personal loot... " Love the no more rolling part, totally behind this decision. Picking at the semantics a little - "chance" to get the loot - does that mean there's basically a roll with no user intervention for each drop (meaning 1 person will win each drop, as if everyone chose greed)? Or will each player get drops more-or-less as if they were playing solo, without regard to the rest of the team. (my "lucky" toon will need to turn into my main in order to get anything worthwhile lol)
5. "...from each boss they down" I hope this means from each boss the party downs. Not to the player who hit the killing shot.
I do want to reiterate I really like these changes; I'm happy to hear about the changes. It will make the whole dungeon delving a much more pleasurable experience. I'm asking these questions just to better understand what's coming and what to expect, not to read anything else into your post or try any doom-and-gloom scenarios.
1. The DMG was found in the WB. So, what is the AD cost in AD of the DMG?
1AD each atm although this could change by release but I don't think it will , it is only used to keep track of what reward caches you have received so far.
OK, well if it stays at 1 AD it's not a huge deal if it's consumable.
I know it keeps track of the reward caches for the "day" so you know when you qualify for another one (which is every 18 hours). So if it expires at the end of that time, I can live with another 1 AD if I can't manage to keep track of when I did what. Thx
Additionally players will have a chance to get personal loot from each boss they down (meaning no more rolling and having people need on everything the boss drops).
Every day you get a large amount of *bonus seals* (this is what the DMG is showing you).
Each boss also drops Seals for you (at the appropriate tiers).
Additionally players will have a chance to get personal loot from each boss they down (meaning no more rolling and having people need on everything the boss drops).
Every day you get a large amount of *bonus seals* (this is what the DMG is showing you).
Each boss also drops Seals for you (at the appropriate tiers).
Additionally players will have a chance to get personal loot from each boss they down (meaning no more rolling and having people need on everything the boss drops).
Two MAJOR AWESOME changes!!!!!!! I cant wait for this man.
I LOOOOOOVE NO SET BONUSES, I CANT stress enough how much awesomeness that is. Really allows for more build variety.
And the Individual Loot is AWESOME as well. AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!
ALL I ask is that you add like HALF the tenacity on PVE gear so it is actually somewhat viable for PVP as well. We can use PVP gear for PVE just fine, why cant we use PVE gear for PVP? With no Tenacity youll get BLOWN UP!
From my exp on preview in running some of the new revamped dungeons...the PERSONAL LOOT JUST F'ING ROCKS. In the few groups I ran on bosses we had no one get loot to several get loot drops. We still had to click for the loot as it is not auto inventory. I really did not pay attention to trash loot, but I do not remember having to roll on anything of the trash.
ON a side note, I was running these in my T2 armor with less issues then the rest of the pug, if it is was a spot I would get one shotted, I just had to be ready to move and could not hesitate.
From my exp on preview in running some of the new revamped dungeons...the PERSONAL LOOT JUST F'ING ROCKS. In the few groups I ran on bosses we had no one get loot to several get loot drops. We still had to click for the loot as it is not auto inventory. I really did not pay attention to trash loot, but I do not remember having to roll on anything of the trash.
ON a side note, I was running these in my T2 armor with less issues then the rest of the pug, if it is was a spot I would get one shotted, I just had to be ready to move and could not hesitate.
What kind of loot did you guys get? Anything useful?
ALL I ask is that you add like HALF the tenacity on PVE gear so it is actually somewhat viable for PVP as well. We can use PVP gear for PVE just fine, why cant we use PVE gear for PVP? With no Tenacity youll get BLOWN UP!
But that is just more easy wins for you, though, right? So what's the big deal?
And no we don't need a useless stat like Tenacity on PVE gear.
First I want to thank Crush for his reply here, this is an example for nice feedback ^^
Second. YES! No more sets, no more sets *danciing* ... if we would have some more choices we could discuss about gear-choises, different combinations and so on... perhaps in the near future! I dont think mod6 will have enough high-end pieces to allow a wide variety of combinations. I am looking forward to use one piece of Black Ice, one rare drop from a dungeon, one from the seal vendor und then one of the new artifact armor pieces we will see in the future *grin*.
All this changes are good. The feedback here looks positive and I add: LIKE IT!
How about turning set bonuses into some kind of new item? E.g. Avatar of war - your Encounter powers give you Onslaught, when.....- is an item you can put in a special slot. So you will still have something to choose while it won't be limiting your gear choices.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Are there alternative or complementary ways to get Elemental and Protector seals outside dungeons ?
Some of us can't readily play dungeons or other team content.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Getting rid of set bonuses was a copout, plain and simple. They can't design good ones that aren't game-breakingly good, so they just get rid of all of them.
Now there is nothing unique about any of the sets. Might as well just make them all stat sticks.
Getting rid of set bonuses was a copout, plain and simple. They can't design good ones that aren't game-breakingly good, so they just get rid of all of them.
Now there is nothing unique about any of the sets. Might as well just make them all stat sticks.
You realize that the set bonuses did exactly what you described? There is nothing unique when everyone is wearing the same stuff. HV has been the BiS set for CWs for almost 2 years now.
Without the set bonuses, people will chose gear based on their build and stats, which should give us a lot more variety that we have now. For example, I imagine in module 6 Oppressor and Renegade builds will be focusing on much different stats, and the gear selection will be very different for both. That's a good thing. Right now, it doesn't matter what build you're using, HV is best...even in PvP
No, the SETS are unique, it's just that the set bonuses are either (a) totally awesome, or (b) terrible. There is no in between. So everyone uses the same awesome set. THAT is the problem. Taking CW as an example, how about one set that offers a control bonus, one set that offers a Life Steal bonus, one set that offers a Crit bonus, etc...? Oppressors will gravitate to one, Renegades will gravitate to another, PVP Tank CWs will gravitate to a third, etc., etc..., so that we actually get some diversity in builds along with set bonuses.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited March 2015
Because one set bonus WILL be determined to be BiS. It happens in every single game, every time.
Look at the sets now. We have one that reduces the cooldowns of control powers. No one uses it. We have one that increases lifesteal and crit severity. No one uses it. We have one that debuffs bad guys. EVERYONE uses it.
There's plenty of "useful" bonuses on sets now...but people chose NOT to use them because one is deemed BiS.
Because one set bonus WILL be determined to be BiS. It happens in every single game, every time.
Look at the sets now. We have one that reduces the cooldowns of control powers. No one uses it. We have one that increases lifesteal and crit severity. No one uses it. We have one that debuffs bad guys. EVERYONE uses it.
There's plenty of "useful" bonuses on sets now...but people chose NOT to use them because one is deemed BiS.
It would be good if we could select what 4 pieces make a set. Same to elemental pvp gear idea it was at start. 4 out of 16 pieces. So you can make your own gear build while still having profit of having whole set.
We might have same cube of augmentation idea for set bonuses. Maybe 4 options for now to keep only useful ones for each class.
note: "We have one that reduces the cooldowns of control powers. No one uses it." might be very valueble for new content. Where control is more important then face tank all mobs. Especially for CW since you talk about them atm.
Because one set bonus WILL be determined to be BiS. It happens in every single game, every time.
Look at the sets now. We have one that reduces the cooldowns of control powers. No one uses it. We have one that increases lifesteal and crit severity. No one uses it. We have one that debuffs bad guys. EVERYONE uses it.
There's plenty of "useful" bonuses on sets now...but people chose NOT to use them because one is deemed BiS.
The Archmage set (reduces cooldowns of control powers) is a T1 set, and the buff only works on a couple of powers, not all of the "control powers".
The Shadow Weaver set (increases lifesteal and crit severity) is bugged and has an internal ICD.
That is the problem. If the sets worked right and didn't have crappy ICDs then you would see more people using different sets.
High Vizier has no ICD and it is not that hard to build and maintain stacks. So it is overly good.
What if, instead, HV only had 1 stack maximum, and SW was not bugged and had no ICD? THEN it would not be so clear-cut as to which one is BIS.
That is my point. If the devs put more thought into the 4pc bonuses, and not make one CLEARLY better than all the others, then we would have more diverse builds for different playstyles and we would still be able to have the advantage of 4pc bonuses that could provide valuable team buffs. But instead, evidently, they are just going to take all of the set bonuses away and just give us pure stats. Which is, frankly, just a mathematical optimization problem. Big deal.
Getting rid of set bonuses was a copout, plain and simple. They can't design good ones that aren't game-breakingly good, so they just get rid of all of them.
Now there is nothing unique about any of the sets. Might as well just make them all stat sticks.
That is incorrect. Loot in Cragimire's Crypt, Temple of the Spider, and Gray Wolf Den is item level 132.
RE: Set Bonuses
Set bonuses have perpetually been a problem and at this time we want them to be rarer and more interesting. We are currently looking at other options for how to handle set bonuses, but no top tier equipment will have set bonuses yet.
Just to chime in on this troubling post. Speaking from the viewpoint of an avid theorycrafter, I believe there are a wide variety of ways to implement Set Bonuses without making them awfully overpowered or overly useless at the same time. Please give us set bonuses. Collecting gear and creating builds are just no fun without exotic set bonuses to play with, and Set Bonuses give identity to a build just as much as our feat choices and power load-outs do.
Most, if not all players gravitate towards set effects which they will never be able to attain from simple stat increases. For instance, the HR's PVP Set Bonus prior to the heavy nerfs it got. The TR PVP Set's Stealth Bonus, the CW's PVP Set Bonus and the GF's PVP set bonus as examples. These are AWESOME set bonuses, mainly because they are of great utility to players. I stressed out utility, due to my belief that utility effects make the best set bonuses. Some ideas are as follows.
HR Set Bonus Ideas:
- 4/4. Each time you Dodge, you generate 3% of your Max AP. Whenever you take damage, you regenerate a percentage of your stamina based on the amount of HP you lost.
- 4/4. Whenever you are using the Ranged Stance, you move 30% faster. Whenever you are in Melee Stance, your Stamina Regenerates 30% faster.
- 4/4. Your ranged strikes apply Sap to your opponents, reducing their movement speed by 25% per stack. Once the stacks reach 4, they are rooted for 4 seconds. Whenever you are in Melee Stance, you apply Sap to opponents with 20' every 2 seconds. Once the stacks reach 4, they are rooted for 4 seconds. The root duration is halved on opposing players.
SW Set Bonus Ideas:
- 4/4. Every 5 seconds, you gain a shield that reduces the amount of damage you take by 15% per stack. You lose a stack when you take damage for more than 3% of your max HP. This can stack up to 4 times, and once you get 4 stacks, you gain a shield that breaks you from a Control Effect once.
- 4/4. Every 5 seconds, you gain a buff that stacks up to 3 times. This buff increases the amount of damage you deal based on the amount of HP you've lost, up to 20%, multiplied by the amount of stacks you have. Every 20 seconds, the buff stacks are consumed, dealing 500 piercing damage to a 50' area around you, and you are healed based on the amount of damage you dealt with this effect.
- 4/4. You gain a that inspires Fear upon your enemies, afflicting them with a Fear debuff that reduces their outgoing damage by 12.5% and reducing their movement speed by 25%. This effect pulses every 5 seconds, and once the stacks reach 5, the Fear debuffs are consumed to afflict them with Terror. Terror stuns your opponents for 5 seconds, and no new stacks of Fear can be dealt to enemies afflicted with Terror.
CW Set Bonus Ideas
- 4/4. You gain a stack of Arcane Mastery every 10 seconds for every enemy that is within 20' of you. Arcane Mastery also increases your Recharge Speed by 10% and Damage Reduction by 5% per stack.
- 4/4. You gain an aura that pulses every 3 seconds, afflicting enemies within 30' with a stack of Chill. Your Chill stacks now reduce the outgoing damage of your enemies by 5% per stack, and the control duration of your powers are also increased by 5% per stack of chill against your enemies.
Those are just some rough, unrefined ideas I have in my head in regards to exotic set bonus effects. And I'm pretty sure that some of you can think of better effects. The point I'd like to get across is that set bonuses should not be removed from the game simply because they're "not interesting." Please give us something to look forward to in terms of collecting new gear with awesome set effects. Builds are practically what keeps me in the game, and I'm sure a lot of other players are the same.
Removing set effects gives us one less toy to play with, and that sucks.
Removing set effects gives us one less toy to play with, and that sucks.
Alot of thoses seem WAY too powerful - especially with PVP considerations and I think that is a major part of the issue.
Also look at how much flak they got for not releasing sets last few modules with better set bonuses. I think they kinda screwed themsevles making the older sets so good, like the HV set, or AoW set.
I would MUCH rather see these types of bonuses be granted through overload slots rather than set bonuses. I like the idea of having more unique gear layouts with various pieces and not having all the players running the same gear sets and same set bonuses.
I think with overload sets you CAN create fun bonuses that any class can use.
Things like:
- Gain 5% damage bonus for 5 seconds after using an encounter power. This effect stacks.
- Gain 5% Critical Strike Chance for 5 seconds after using an encounter power. This effect stacks.
- Your attacks/healing have a 10% chance to increase incoming healing by 20% for 15 seconds. This effect can only happen once every 60 seconds.
These types of things bring back the "flavor" but doesnt cause any issues with balance. Some of the stuff you posted, just seem WAY too good....
If you REALLY wanted to look at set bonuses. It should be much more akin to the Mainhand set bonuses that we get, and maybe even offhand set bonuses as well. So an example for GWFs would be:
Your at wills deal 10% more damage.
You gain DR buff and faster determination after using HAMSTER strike.
Things like that are more appropriate they are very small nearly insignificant. I just feel set bonuses restrict the gear choices too much without really offering anything beneficial, if it DOES offer something beneficial then it becomes VERY hard to balance for PVP purposes because things like you mentioned above I can already see being VERY problematic.
CW Set Bonus Ideas
- 4/4. You gain a stack of Arcane Mastery every 10 seconds for every enemy that is within 20' of you. Arcane Mastery also increases your Recharge Speed by 10% and Damage Reduction by 5% per stack.
- 4/4. You gain an aura that pulses every 3 seconds, afflicting enemies within 30' with a stack of Chill. Your Chill stacks now reduce the outgoing damage of your enemies by 5% per stack, and the control duration of your powers are also increased by 5% per stack of chill against your enemies.
Your idea is good but:
1) they are too powerfull. A set bonus shouldn't give both rechage time and damage reduction.
2) your second bonus is just what will be doing the whole Oppressor tree in mod6.
3) set bonus should be balanced around damage buff they provide.
I think the idea to build set bonus around class mechanism is a good idea. As it work way better than control/non-control spell distinction.
I confess that I don't have a lot of experience with overload enchants. I hardly ever use them, find them to be a waste actually. But it was my understanding that they buffed only the player, and not the whole party. The more useful 4pc set bonuses buffed the whole party (HV, HP, MH, etc).
I agree that they made the original T1/T2 set bonuses too good, which prolonged their lifetimes beyond what they probably should have been. But the level cap raise was a chance to wash that all away and start anew, because nobody is going to be using High Vizier in Mod 6 no matter how good the set bonus is.
I like the idea of tying the 4pc set bonus to a class mechanic. So there could be three sets, each one tied loosely to the three different feat paths, and buffing one of the class mechanics. So for a CW it might be:
- Each stack of arcane mastery now increases the damage of the whole party by 0.25% per stack, max 4 stacks (tied to Renegade)
- Each stack of chill now slows targets for an additional 0.25 s (tied to Oppressor)
- When you gain an arcane stack, your next cold-based encounter applies a 6-s DOT for 50% of weapon damage; when you apply a chill stack, your next arcane-based encounter applies a 6-s DOT for 50% of weapon damage (tied to Thaumaturge).
None of them are game-breakingly good but they provide important buffs and, furthermore, would only really want to be chosen by CWs in that particular feat path. Provided all three feat paths are viable in some way shape or form, none of the sets would be BIS for everyone.
Alot of thoses seem WAY too powerful - especially with PVP considerations and I think that is a major part of the issue.
Also look at how much flak they got for not releasing sets last few modules with better set bonuses. I think they kinda screwed themsevles making the older sets so good, like the HV set, or AoW set.
I would MUCH rather see these types of bonuses be granted through overload slots rather than set bonuses. I like the idea of having more unique gear layouts with various pieces and not having all the players running the same gear sets and same set bonuses.
I think with overload sets you CAN create fun bonuses that any class can use.
Things like:
- Gain 5% damage bonus for 5 seconds after using an encounter power. This effect stacks.
- Gain 5% Critical Strike Chance for 5 seconds after using an encounter power. This effect stacks.
- Your attacks/healing have a 10% chance to increase incoming healing by 20% for 15 seconds. This effect can only happen once every 60 seconds.
These types of things bring back the "flavor" but doesnt cause any issues with balance. Some of the stuff you posted, just seem WAY too good....
If you REALLY wanted to look at set bonuses. It should be much more akin to the Mainhand set bonuses that we get, and maybe even offhand set bonuses as well. So an example for GWFs would be:
Your at wills deal 10% more damage.
You gain DR buff and faster determination after using HAMSTER strike.
Things like that are more appropriate they are very small nearly insignificant. I just feel set bonuses restrict the gear choices too much without really offering anything beneficial, if it DOES offer something beneficial then it becomes VERY hard to balance for PVP purposes because things like you mentioned above I can already see being VERY problematic.
Those are just a couple of rough ideas, and as I mentioned in the post I'm pretty sure you guys can create better set effects than me. Perhaps such set bonuses could be implemented on REALLY rare sets. When something is "too good," it simply means it's worth striving for, right?
But the point still stands, that we all pretty much agree that dropping set bonuses is not the way to go for gearing up in end-game. You can't fix a problem by patching it up with an equally problematic and lazy implementation. If HV or AoW is too good, they should just do what they did with Stalwart Bulwark and put them in line with the other sets.
I do like your idea that set bonuses can be attained via Overload slots. Why don't we take it a step further and make it so that we can eventually get set bonuses by slotting certain combinations of special Legendary Enchantments? That's something that would further spice up how we build our characters.
For GWFs, I've been thinking of something like "Your determination gain is increased by 30%. When you are under the effects of Unstoppable, your determination depletion is reduced by 30%."
That doesn't sound to overpowered, right? It increases the duration and rate of use of the GWF's class feature. This is the problem with most set bonuses. If they do not provide utility effects, they are usually too good or too terrible to use. An example of a set which is too good would be HV, which directly impacts the damage output of enemies by a too significant amount. An example of a set which is too terrible would be... well, most, if not all of the sets that directly increase stats by an insignificant amount.
I believe that for sets, utility effects are the way to go for balance, and exotic effects are the way to go to keep things interesting. It's possible to just implement the exotic effects such as the ones I suggested in gear which are really tough to farm or really rare to come across.
But the point still stands, that we all pretty much agree that dropping set bonuses is not the way to go for gearing up in end-game. You can't fix a problem by patching it up with an equally problematic and lazy implementation. If HV or AoW is too good, they should just do what they did with Stalwart Bulwark and put them in line with the other sets.
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I dont really agree to this though. I actually REALLY like them removing 4 pc set bonuses. It allows you to:
1) Wear mix n match pieces of whatever gear you like as long as the stats are good - meaning there is NO 1 "BIS" setup.
2) Gear as you go - which is REALLY important. Instead of 3 of a 4 piece set being worthless to the player because they have random pieces that are better, NOT allowing set bonuses and buffing each individual set gives us FAR more options.
If you REALLY want these "unique Options" the BEST way to accomplish this is with Enchanting. We currently have "reinforcement kits right"
Well what they need to do is create an enchanting profession in a future module, similar to black ice where its ranked to either level 3 or 5 is the max.
You acquire rare materials from dungeons and can enchant 4 various pieces (or maybe just 3) with some unique build options for characters. Maybe create 3 for each class each buffing a certain paragon tree. Thus when you enchant 3-4 pieces with this enchant AND equip them all, it gives you the bonus.
THIS allows the best of both worlds, it can be unique and rare materials but I DONT like the though of forcing players into a 4 piece set for some UBER bonus that makes it good. As I said before, its either too good and makes everything else worthless which is a LOSS for the player base. Or its NOT good enough and players get mad it takes so much to get the full 4 piece and it does very little. Or MAYBE (cmon its Cryptic) they DO it right and actually balance everything and BEST case - its "on par" with other options but just offers a unique feel - well what value did they really add to the game for the time spent?
You have to think of this topic with resources in mind. Would you RATHER have 4 piece set bonuses or another PVE dungeon?
Would you RATHER have set bonuses or PVP maps/gametypes?
Would you RATHER have set bonuses over BUG fixes?
I mean its all a matter of resources/reward. Best case set bonuses offer a unique play style which is the BEST case, more than likely itll be too little or too much and cause more problems than its worth.
Still want to press the issue? Id rather have an open pallet to choose from for gear based on how I want to build my character, not forced into some set because the set bonuses are too good and then forced to make up for the LACK of stats with my other gear - which has been my experience in this game.
That is incorrect. Loot in Cragimire's Crypt, Temple of the Spider, and Gray Wolf Den is item level 132.
RE: Set Bonuses
Set bonuses have perpetually been a problem and at this time we want them to be rarer and more interesting. We are currently looking at other options for how to handle set bonuses, but no top tier equipment will have set bonuses yet.
A lack of set bonuses takes a lot of the fun out of things for PvE players, since it certainly takes a lot of the effort out of running dungeons.
The large problems with set bonuses have been 1. flat out don't work 2. made useless by needless ICD 3. not a party benefit.
I'm not to 70 yet on test, but TBH you haven't waved any gear candy in front of me that's worth giving up High Prophet. And I'm giving up Knight's Captain only because of the nerf to stats that makes the benefit of the set to the group minimal.
I'm not to 70 yet on test, but TBH you haven't waved any gear candy in front of me that's worth giving up High Prophet. And I'm giving up Knight's Captain only because of the nerf to stats that makes the benefit of the set to the group minimal.
It's not leveling from 60-69 that necessitates better gear. That content is still doable in T1/T2 stuff. It's when you reach level 70 and decide to run Level 70 Dungeons, Tiamat, and other assorted level 70 content (like Well of Dragons) that running around with 30k HP is like having a flashing neon "KILL ME" sign floating over your character. Trash mobs have more than 30k base damage. I didn't want to give up my High Vizier set. But it was either trade it in for stuff that gave me 40k+ more HP or die over and over and over.
Comments
I love this change - and forgive me in advance if I'm reading way too much into the semantics, but a couple more questions that came to mind:
1. The DMG was found in the WB. So, what is the AD cost of the DMG?
2. The last line in the description reads "This guide may be re-purchased at any time via the Wondrous Bazaar" Is it a consumable?!?; BoE, BoP, BtA...?
3. "Large amount" of bonus seals - fixed amount for each of the dungeons?
4. "...have a chance to get personal loot... " Love the no more rolling part, totally behind this decision. Picking at the semantics a little - "chance" to get the loot - does that mean there's basically a roll with no user intervention for each drop (meaning 1 person will win each drop, as if everyone chose greed)? Or will each player get drops more-or-less as if they were playing solo, without regard to the rest of the team. (my "lucky" toon will need to turn into my main in order to get anything worthwhile lol)
5. "...from each boss they down" I hope this means from each boss the party downs. Not to the player who hit the killing shot.
I do want to reiterate I really like these changes; I'm happy to hear about the changes. It will make the whole dungeon delving a much more pleasurable experience. I'm asking these questions just to better understand what's coming and what to expect, not to read anything else into your post or try any doom-and-gloom scenarios.
1AD each atm although this could change by release but I don't think it will , it is only used to keep track of what reward caches you have received so far.
I know it keeps track of the reward caches for the "day" so you know when you qualify for another one (which is every 18 hours). So if it expires at the end of that time, I can live with another 1 AD if I can't manage to keep track of when I did what.
oh that's really a great news
Excellent!!!
Excellent!! Thanks for the explanation gc.
I LOOOOOOVE NO SET BONUSES, I CANT stress enough how much awesomeness that is. Really allows for more build variety.
And the Individual Loot is AWESOME as well. AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!
ALL I ask is that you add like HALF the tenacity on PVE gear so it is actually somewhat viable for PVP as well. We can use PVP gear for PVE just fine, why cant we use PVE gear for PVP? With no Tenacity youll get BLOWN UP!
ON a side note, I was running these in my T2 armor with less issues then the rest of the pug, if it is was a spot I would get one shotted, I just had to be ready to move and could not hesitate.
What kind of loot did you guys get? Anything useful?
But that is just more easy wins for you, though, right? So what's the big deal?
And no we don't need a useless stat like Tenacity on PVE gear.
First I want to thank Crush for his reply here, this is an example for nice feedback ^^
Second. YES! No more sets, no more sets *danciing* ... if we would have some more choices we could discuss about gear-choises, different combinations and so on... perhaps in the near future! I dont think mod6 will have enough high-end pieces to allow a wide variety of combinations. I am looking forward to use one piece of Black Ice, one rare drop from a dungeon, one from the seal vendor und then one of the new artifact armor pieces we will see in the future *grin*.
All this changes are good. The feedback here looks positive and I add: LIKE IT!
//Bellistor
Some of us can't readily play dungeons or other team content.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Now there is nothing unique about any of the sets. Might as well just make them all stat sticks.
You realize that the set bonuses did exactly what you described? There is nothing unique when everyone is wearing the same stuff. HV has been the BiS set for CWs for almost 2 years now.
Without the set bonuses, people will chose gear based on their build and stats, which should give us a lot more variety that we have now. For example, I imagine in module 6 Oppressor and Renegade builds will be focusing on much different stats, and the gear selection will be very different for both. That's a good thing. Right now, it doesn't matter what build you're using, HV is best...even in PvP
Look at the sets now. We have one that reduces the cooldowns of control powers. No one uses it. We have one that increases lifesteal and crit severity. No one uses it. We have one that debuffs bad guys. EVERYONE uses it.
There's plenty of "useful" bonuses on sets now...but people chose NOT to use them because one is deemed BiS.
It would be good if we could select what 4 pieces make a set. Same to elemental pvp gear idea it was at start. 4 out of 16 pieces. So you can make your own gear build while still having profit of having whole set.
We might have same cube of augmentation idea for set bonuses. Maybe 4 options for now to keep only useful ones for each class.
note: "We have one that reduces the cooldowns of control powers. No one uses it." might be very valueble for new content. Where control is more important then face tank all mobs. Especially for CW since you talk about them atm.
The Archmage set (reduces cooldowns of control powers) is a T1 set, and the buff only works on a couple of powers, not all of the "control powers".
The Shadow Weaver set (increases lifesteal and crit severity) is bugged and has an internal ICD.
That is the problem. If the sets worked right and didn't have crappy ICDs then you would see more people using different sets.
High Vizier has no ICD and it is not that hard to build and maintain stacks. So it is overly good.
What if, instead, HV only had 1 stack maximum, and SW was not bugged and had no ICD? THEN it would not be so clear-cut as to which one is BIS.
That is my point. If the devs put more thought into the 4pc bonuses, and not make one CLEARLY better than all the others, then we would have more diverse builds for different playstyles and we would still be able to have the advantage of 4pc bonuses that could provide valuable team buffs. But instead, evidently, they are just going to take all of the set bonuses away and just give us pure stats. Which is, frankly, just a mathematical optimization problem. Big deal.
+1
yep thet've chosen the easy solution -_-
Just to chime in on this troubling post. Speaking from the viewpoint of an avid theorycrafter, I believe there are a wide variety of ways to implement Set Bonuses without making them awfully overpowered or overly useless at the same time. Please give us set bonuses. Collecting gear and creating builds are just no fun without exotic set bonuses to play with, and Set Bonuses give identity to a build just as much as our feat choices and power load-outs do.
Most, if not all players gravitate towards set effects which they will never be able to attain from simple stat increases. For instance, the HR's PVP Set Bonus prior to the heavy nerfs it got. The TR PVP Set's Stealth Bonus, the CW's PVP Set Bonus and the GF's PVP set bonus as examples. These are AWESOME set bonuses, mainly because they are of great utility to players. I stressed out utility, due to my belief that utility effects make the best set bonuses. Some ideas are as follows.
HR Set Bonus Ideas:
- 4/4. Each time you Dodge, you generate 3% of your Max AP. Whenever you take damage, you regenerate a percentage of your stamina based on the amount of HP you lost.
- 4/4. Whenever you are using the Ranged Stance, you move 30% faster. Whenever you are in Melee Stance, your Stamina Regenerates 30% faster.
- 4/4. Your ranged strikes apply Sap to your opponents, reducing their movement speed by 25% per stack. Once the stacks reach 4, they are rooted for 4 seconds. Whenever you are in Melee Stance, you apply Sap to opponents with 20' every 2 seconds. Once the stacks reach 4, they are rooted for 4 seconds. The root duration is halved on opposing players.
SW Set Bonus Ideas:
- 4/4. Every 5 seconds, you gain a shield that reduces the amount of damage you take by 15% per stack. You lose a stack when you take damage for more than 3% of your max HP. This can stack up to 4 times, and once you get 4 stacks, you gain a shield that breaks you from a Control Effect once.
- 4/4. Every 5 seconds, you gain a buff that stacks up to 3 times. This buff increases the amount of damage you deal based on the amount of HP you've lost, up to 20%, multiplied by the amount of stacks you have. Every 20 seconds, the buff stacks are consumed, dealing 500 piercing damage to a 50' area around you, and you are healed based on the amount of damage you dealt with this effect.
- 4/4. You gain a that inspires Fear upon your enemies, afflicting them with a Fear debuff that reduces their outgoing damage by 12.5% and reducing their movement speed by 25%. This effect pulses every 5 seconds, and once the stacks reach 5, the Fear debuffs are consumed to afflict them with Terror. Terror stuns your opponents for 5 seconds, and no new stacks of Fear can be dealt to enemies afflicted with Terror.
CW Set Bonus Ideas
- 4/4. You gain a stack of Arcane Mastery every 10 seconds for every enemy that is within 20' of you. Arcane Mastery also increases your Recharge Speed by 10% and Damage Reduction by 5% per stack.
- 4/4. You gain an aura that pulses every 3 seconds, afflicting enemies within 30' with a stack of Chill. Your Chill stacks now reduce the outgoing damage of your enemies by 5% per stack, and the control duration of your powers are also increased by 5% per stack of chill against your enemies.
Those are just some rough, unrefined ideas I have in my head in regards to exotic set bonus effects. And I'm pretty sure that some of you can think of better effects. The point I'd like to get across is that set bonuses should not be removed from the game simply because they're "not interesting." Please give us something to look forward to in terms of collecting new gear with awesome set effects. Builds are practically what keeps me in the game, and I'm sure a lot of other players are the same.
Removing set effects gives us one less toy to play with, and that sucks.
Alot of thoses seem WAY too powerful - especially with PVP considerations and I think that is a major part of the issue.
Also look at how much flak they got for not releasing sets last few modules with better set bonuses. I think they kinda screwed themsevles making the older sets so good, like the HV set, or AoW set.
I would MUCH rather see these types of bonuses be granted through overload slots rather than set bonuses. I like the idea of having more unique gear layouts with various pieces and not having all the players running the same gear sets and same set bonuses.
I think with overload sets you CAN create fun bonuses that any class can use.
Things like:
- Gain 5% damage bonus for 5 seconds after using an encounter power. This effect stacks.
- Gain 5% Critical Strike Chance for 5 seconds after using an encounter power. This effect stacks.
- Your attacks/healing have a 10% chance to increase incoming healing by 20% for 15 seconds. This effect can only happen once every 60 seconds.
These types of things bring back the "flavor" but doesnt cause any issues with balance. Some of the stuff you posted, just seem WAY too good....
If you REALLY wanted to look at set bonuses. It should be much more akin to the Mainhand set bonuses that we get, and maybe even offhand set bonuses as well. So an example for GWFs would be:
Your at wills deal 10% more damage.
You gain DR buff and faster determination after using HAMSTER strike.
Things like that are more appropriate they are very small nearly insignificant. I just feel set bonuses restrict the gear choices too much without really offering anything beneficial, if it DOES offer something beneficial then it becomes VERY hard to balance for PVP purposes because things like you mentioned above I can already see being VERY problematic.
Your idea is good but:
1) they are too powerfull. A set bonus shouldn't give both rechage time and damage reduction.
2) your second bonus is just what will be doing the whole Oppressor tree in mod6.
3) set bonus should be balanced around damage buff they provide.
I think the idea to build set bonus around class mechanism is a good idea. As it work way better than control/non-control spell distinction.
I agree that they made the original T1/T2 set bonuses too good, which prolonged their lifetimes beyond what they probably should have been. But the level cap raise was a chance to wash that all away and start anew, because nobody is going to be using High Vizier in Mod 6 no matter how good the set bonus is.
I like the idea of tying the 4pc set bonus to a class mechanic. So there could be three sets, each one tied loosely to the three different feat paths, and buffing one of the class mechanics. So for a CW it might be:
- Each stack of arcane mastery now increases the damage of the whole party by 0.25% per stack, max 4 stacks (tied to Renegade)
- Each stack of chill now slows targets for an additional 0.25 s (tied to Oppressor)
- When you gain an arcane stack, your next cold-based encounter applies a 6-s DOT for 50% of weapon damage; when you apply a chill stack, your next arcane-based encounter applies a 6-s DOT for 50% of weapon damage (tied to Thaumaturge).
None of them are game-breakingly good but they provide important buffs and, furthermore, would only really want to be chosen by CWs in that particular feat path. Provided all three feat paths are viable in some way shape or form, none of the sets would be BIS for everyone.
Those are just a couple of rough ideas, and as I mentioned in the post I'm pretty sure you guys can create better set effects than me. Perhaps such set bonuses could be implemented on REALLY rare sets. When something is "too good," it simply means it's worth striving for, right?
But the point still stands, that we all pretty much agree that dropping set bonuses is not the way to go for gearing up in end-game. You can't fix a problem by patching it up with an equally problematic and lazy implementation. If HV or AoW is too good, they should just do what they did with Stalwart Bulwark and put them in line with the other sets.
I do like your idea that set bonuses can be attained via Overload slots. Why don't we take it a step further and make it so that we can eventually get set bonuses by slotting certain combinations of special Legendary Enchantments? That's something that would further spice up how we build our characters.
For GWFs, I've been thinking of something like "Your determination gain is increased by 30%. When you are under the effects of Unstoppable, your determination depletion is reduced by 30%."
That doesn't sound to overpowered, right? It increases the duration and rate of use of the GWF's class feature. This is the problem with most set bonuses. If they do not provide utility effects, they are usually too good or too terrible to use. An example of a set which is too good would be HV, which directly impacts the damage output of enemies by a too significant amount. An example of a set which is too terrible would be... well, most, if not all of the sets that directly increase stats by an insignificant amount.
I believe that for sets, utility effects are the way to go for balance, and exotic effects are the way to go to keep things interesting. It's possible to just implement the exotic effects such as the ones I suggested in gear which are really tough to farm or really rare to come across.
I dont really agree to this though. I actually REALLY like them removing 4 pc set bonuses. It allows you to:
1) Wear mix n match pieces of whatever gear you like as long as the stats are good - meaning there is NO 1 "BIS" setup.
2) Gear as you go - which is REALLY important. Instead of 3 of a 4 piece set being worthless to the player because they have random pieces that are better, NOT allowing set bonuses and buffing each individual set gives us FAR more options.
If you REALLY want these "unique Options" the BEST way to accomplish this is with Enchanting. We currently have "reinforcement kits right"
Well what they need to do is create an enchanting profession in a future module, similar to black ice where its ranked to either level 3 or 5 is the max.
You acquire rare materials from dungeons and can enchant 4 various pieces (or maybe just 3) with some unique build options for characters. Maybe create 3 for each class each buffing a certain paragon tree. Thus when you enchant 3-4 pieces with this enchant AND equip them all, it gives you the bonus.
THIS allows the best of both worlds, it can be unique and rare materials but I DONT like the though of forcing players into a 4 piece set for some UBER bonus that makes it good. As I said before, its either too good and makes everything else worthless which is a LOSS for the player base. Or its NOT good enough and players get mad it takes so much to get the full 4 piece and it does very little. Or MAYBE (cmon its Cryptic) they DO it right and actually balance everything and BEST case - its "on par" with other options but just offers a unique feel - well what value did they really add to the game for the time spent?
You have to think of this topic with resources in mind. Would you RATHER have 4 piece set bonuses or another PVE dungeon?
Would you RATHER have set bonuses or PVP maps/gametypes?
Would you RATHER have set bonuses over BUG fixes?
I mean its all a matter of resources/reward. Best case set bonuses offer a unique play style which is the BEST case, more than likely itll be too little or too much and cause more problems than its worth.
Still want to press the issue? Id rather have an open pallet to choose from for gear based on how I want to build my character, not forced into some set because the set bonuses are too good and then forced to make up for the LACK of stats with my other gear - which has been my experience in this game.
A lack of set bonuses takes a lot of the fun out of things for PvE players, since it certainly takes a lot of the effort out of running dungeons.
The large problems with set bonuses have been 1. flat out don't work 2. made useless by needless ICD 3. not a party benefit.
I'm not to 70 yet on test, but TBH you haven't waved any gear candy in front of me that's worth giving up High Prophet. And I'm giving up Knight's Captain only because of the nerf to stats that makes the benefit of the set to the group minimal.
It's not leveling from 60-69 that necessitates better gear. That content is still doable in T1/T2 stuff. It's when you reach level 70 and decide to run Level 70 Dungeons, Tiamat, and other assorted level 70 content (like Well of Dragons) that running around with 30k HP is like having a flashing neon "KILL ME" sign floating over your character. Trash mobs have more than 30k base damage. I didn't want to give up my High Vizier set. But it was either trade it in for stuff that gave me 40k+ more HP or die over and over and over.