You mean when you go to the forums to insult people with different preferences than you, as you're doing now. Your entire post here is a long string of generalizations and insults towards people with different preferences than your own. All but three PvPers are demented, egotistical jerks. Or something like that; it all doesn't come across as particularly coherent.
I'll just say this: I have never, ever, observed the rosy picture of PVP play that you have described: "fighting something on an equal footing". I'm quite aware that the 'high-end PVP' crowd CLAIMS that they just want fair fights. But when presented with a grossly unfair and imbalanced fight, they don't mind taking advantage of their superiority and mercilessly pummeling enemies into the ground. What you are describing is nothing more than what you think PVP ought to be, not what PVP actually is.
When I have suggested "hey, you PVPers, if you are in an unbalanced match, instead of spawncamping them and just sitting there, why not try to make it a more competitive fight by taking off some of your gear, letting them score some points, trying unorthodox or inefficient but fun strategies in order to make it more interesting for you and for them, or even trying to teach them some tactics or strategies that might help them", the response that I always get here is: "NO, because that just drags out the fight longer and we just want to move on to another match". THEY are the ones that have no regard for other players that aren't 'high-level' PVPers such as themselves. THEY are the ones who treat unworthy opponents as inferior, beneath their consideration, not worth their time.
I do find it particularly amusing that you accuse those players who do like to humiliate other players as being more interested in PVE. That is just your blatant anti-PVE bias showing. "Sure, I want to ruin somebody's day, so given the choice between fighting other people or fighting dragons, I will choose to fight... dragons! I'll sure ruin THAT dragon's day!" LOL
No, that's applying a specific analytical meaning to the term to explain what most people who use it refer to.
Once again you are being too narrow. Please show me the definition where "endgame" only means "content that requires high end gear and experience". Your fellow MMOers seem to disagree.
pointsman generalization is really ridiculous. i participating on roflstomping too, from time to time and what? why do you care? what is the problem? if people jump into enemies, maybe they expect to be roflstomping to gave others easier progress in campaign and expect the same, if the situation is quite the opposite? a little bit exploit? maybe, but nothing gamebreaking in the NWO world. You get killed? so press shift ě and play again or stay at camp, your choice. Some people can farm kills but instead of that they systematicaly go to one node to be killed but prevent enemy from moving to others nodes and their team win. they"died for win". and they dont cry about every death they get. its tactical. What honor do you want to see? Folks que for gg pvp and after 5 mins one side is dominating so do what in rest of the time? wait somewhere or ride mindlessly around? or roflstomping enemies for a while if they are willing to jump. who cares?
pve content is rushing from begining to end, maybe you will be surprised of people behaviour if there is a time to talk, discuss tactics and other things...
I don't care what you do. But don't call it "honorable combat" or "fighting worthy opponents", because it's not.
I think I have to explain my self. In first post I wrote that its sad that pve in this game is nonexistant. Its pointless to do. Which implicates that I desire challenging and rewarding pve. I stated that what left in this game for peaple like me is pvp. Im pve/pvp player whose doing only pvp becouse there is none pve content for me. The mod 6 is fallowing this disapointing path, with no real effort.
Lets check progress of developement in pve department.
Sharandar - story driven intro, 3 new maps, 3 new mini zones, 1 skirmish 1 dungeon
Dread ring - story driven intro, 1 new map, 3 new mini zones, 1 skirmish, 1 dungeon
Icewind - 2 new maps, 1 skirmish
Tyranny - 1 dungeon, 1 skirmish
Tiamat - 1 new map, 3 recycled mini zones, 25 ppl encounter named Tiamat
Conclusion is one. The game developement is degrading. Sometimes I think that they have only 1 programist, and they fired all art and fx team.
Again its sad but i still have hope, that they come back from artifact eq madness. Its so fun to login to see that half of friends are afk in foundry farms with mouse klickers on. Its realy great game design that force ppl to do such shameless things.
I refuse, I prefere to play few broken dominations and call it a day.
So sad indeed.
How can they rebound from this decline if people feel cheated, alienated or simply tired of it all? Quality development is an investment. Would you invest in a decaying business if you're getting less and less returns? Its a bit of a loop - the devs make changes that put players off, then the devs get less money to work with and end up making even more changes that put people off.. This has only one outcome
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You never seen 1 vs 1 in domination? I do it all the time when one team looses badly and im more then happy to watch some one else fighting. Just inspect other team and find more ore less opponent near your gear score, then voice your challange.Theres big chance that the rest will respect taht when he agree.
Newcomers, young ppl and pve folk have problem with respecting unwritten agreement. BiS ppl tend to not attack on sight when the outcome is set. When you try to cap point or change the outcome you gonna die, thats simple. Sure theres an a.shole in any group. But veteran pvpers are not like you describe and your statements are afair and comes more likely from low elo.
Main : GF - Lord Kruk Steel and Magic
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
I don't care what you do. But don't call it "honorable combat" or "fighting worthy opponents", because it's not.
of course its not, but its not players fault, but dev fault. anyway cant imagine scholaring someone in pvp systematicaly, its really not worth. i rather prefer giving advices through forum, like this.
I finally downloaded the preview server patch and i played just a bit
What i think about it untill now?
1.No real new zones but just a recycled old ones
2.No new dungeons
3.No new pvp areas
4.No real pvp balancing
5.Same refining system
6.Totally useless new artifact weapon,exactly the same of the old one with stats improved (are you kidding me?),seems just a great speculation,substitute a mod 5 weapon for another identical weapon after you wasted so much time and money for that one and after they said ''No more artifact gear in this mod''
Ok they added 10 more levels and a lot of new equipments..but the question is...TO DO WHAT?
Why i have to improve my characters?
I'm not so excited about this Mod,Seems just an extension of the usual stuff, but I hope to be wrong.
Last two or shall i say 1 and a half Mods are entirely recycled content, with sadly no fresh idea in it. Welcome to the world of economic coding, like the Hollywood movies, all on tape and downloadable from a main library.
But for me, this wouldn't be the biggest problem, if we could see 2 year old bugs and lack of content, like for PVP fixed.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Again its sad but i still have hope, that they come back from artifact eq madness. Its so fun to login to see that half of friends are afk in foundry farms with mouse klickers on. Its realy great game design that force ppl to do such shameless things.
So sad indeed.
Sad really sad, i have about 150 peeps on my friend list and only 4 active of them now. I think it needs no comment...
What troubles me, that Cryptic still doesn't see this bad tendency and most of our posts and threads calling out for help are considered as an attack, but no, we are here to give advise as little people, the players, your base Dear Cryptic, listen more to us, pls. Thank you!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I don't care what you do. But don't call it "honorable combat" or "fighting worthy opponents", because it's not.
It is, if you ever would have fought premade against premade. They are on equal standards, BIS. If one team surrenders, the other team takes/offers 1v1 fights. The PvP crowd thinned out in the last month and you cant compare PuG PvP with premade PvP. When fighting one of the 'old' crowd 1v1 in a semipremade and a PuG player attacks, the other players stops, till you had time to kill the PuG and regen.
Most of my PvP playing friends left, so I tend to do PvP in PuG teams. There is a high level of BS going on there. When playing my 24k GS PvP char, I get insulted as 'p2w' etc. On my alts ppl compain about the 'bad' (18k+) gear. Playing PuG one team dominates the other one most of the times. The same ppl who complain about you killing them 2v1 kill you a second later 4v1 and brag about it. When I am on the winning side of the ELO lottery, I kill ppl, till they state, that they give up or it is a 1v1, but one TR using stealth to sneak up on me or a teammate, attacking without a warning, is not 1v1, but a attack, so he gets pawned.
BTW, BI, as draconic templar, is not a sign for PvP players, but for GS pushers. All my PvP chars have PvE equip, personalized archmage rings, epic/ legendary artefacts and artefact gear. While a pure PvE char has a higher dps with similar gear a BIS PvP char has a higher dps than 90% of the PvE crowd (same class). High end PvP players know how to play their class and use the synergy of classes/ effects. Why do you think, that they lose their skill in PvE. Some of the highest dps in PvE I have seen was dished out by PvP players in their PvP gear.
When I ask for a zerg time for Tiamat, I inspect the ppl offering the time. I prefer to go with the ones offered by someone from a PvP guild, bc most of them have good gear and know how to play their chars.
of course its not, but its not players fault, but dev fault. anyway cant imagine scholaring someone in pvp systematicaly, its really not worth. i rather prefer giving advices through forum, like this.
It is the players' fault, at least to an extent. Individuals are responsible for their own decisions.
It is, if you ever would have fought premade against premade. They are on equal standards, BIS. If one team surrenders, the other team takes/offers 1v1 fights. The PvP crowd thinned out in the last month and you cant compare PuG PvP with premade PvP. When fighting one of the 'old' crowd 1v1 in a semipremade and a PuG player attacks, the other players stops, till you had time to kill the PuG and regen.
Most of my PvP playing friends left, so I tend to do PvP in PuG teams. There is a high level of BS going on there. When playing my 24k GS PvP char, I get insulted as 'p2w' etc. On my alts ppl compain about the 'bad' (18k+) gear. Playing PuG one team dominates the other one most of the times. The same ppl who complain about you killing them 2v1 kill you a second later 4v1 and brag about it. When I am on the winning side of the ELO lottery, I kill ppl, till they state, that they give up or it is a 1v1, but one TR using stealth to sneak up on me or a teammate, attacking without a warning, is not 1v1, but a attack, so he gets pawned.
BTW, BI, as draconic templar, is not a sign for PvP players, but for GS pushers. All my PvP chars have PvE equip, personalized archmage rings, epic/ legendary artefacts and artefact gear. While a pure PvE char has a higher dps with similar gear a BIS PvP char has a higher dps than 90% of the PvE crowd (same class). High end PvP players know how to play their class and use the synergy of classes/ effects. Why do you think, that they lose their skill in PvE. Some of the highest dps in PvE I have seen was dished out by PvP players in their PvP gear.
When I ask for a zerg time for Tiamat, I inspect the ppl offering the time. I prefer to go with the ones offered by someone from a PvP guild, bc most of them have good gear and know how to play their chars.
It's not about individual DPS. It is working together as a team.
In PVE, the 20k CW wearing BI/Profound gear and who has high individual DPS, is DOING IT WRONG. That is a selfish player. The CW should be wearing High Vizier or, at a minimum, the Draconic set, to buff the team. Same with PVP TRs who run around in PVE who have evidently never heard of Wicked Reminder. I absolutely guarantee that a BIS PVE CW will have higher TEAM DPS than a BIS PVP CW.
And discussing PVP in terms of "premade vs. premade" is kinda silly in my view, since that represents maybe 1% of the PVP matches at any given time. How many players do you think have really pparticipated in an organized premade vs. premade, beyond simply a guildie inviting them for fun in a PVP match? If 99% of the PVP in this game is done by pug teams, and only 1% is by organized high-end premades, which do you think represents the typical PVP experience in this game? The BIS PVPers?
And besides, I have seen the same trollish behavior even from high-end PVPers playing their lowbie alts in PVP matches.
It's not about individual DPS. It is working together as a team.
In PVE, the 20k CW wearing BI/Profound gear and who has high individual DPS, is DOING IT WRONG. That is a selfish player. The CW should be wearing High Vizier or, at a minimum, the Draconic set, to buff the team. Same with PVP TRs who run around in PVE who have evidently never heard of Wicked Reminder. I absolutely guarantee that a BIS PVE CW will have higher TEAM DPS than a BIS PVP CW.
And discussing PVP in terms of "premade vs. premade" is kinda silly in my view, since that represents maybe 1% of the PVP matches at any given time. How many players do you think have really pparticipated in an organized premade vs. premade, beyond simply a guildie inviting them for fun in a PVP match? If 99% of the PVP in this game is done by pug teams, and only 1% is by organized high-end premades, which do you think represents the typical PVP experience in this game? The BIS PVPers?
And besides, I have seen the same trollish behavior even from high-end PVPers playing their lowbie alts in PVP matches.
As stated before, NOT ONE DECENT PVP PLAYER I KNOW plays CW in PvE with BI. Why would I say, that I have different PvE and PvP sets, if I use the PvP sets in PvE? To elaborate: CW HV, DC HP, GWF AoW, HR RG or draconic (AP gain), TR draconic (+10% CA dmg). You will find more renegade PvP than PvE CWs, buffing group dmg instead of their own (bc of the lifesteal of the cap feat in PvP, but the effect is the same).
The difference btw BIS PvE and BIS PvP speced players is there, as I said before, BUT it does not matter at all, bc either of them has better gear than 95% of the rest and can solo/duo most of the content (exept Tiamat). There are some BIS PvE players out there, but in my expirience (I play since beta) most PVE players, if and when they reach BIS gear, get bored of PvE and either a) start playing PvP, b) start an alt or c) stop playing.
It's not about individual DPS. It is working together as a team.
In PVE, the 20k CW wearing BI/Profound gear and who has high individual DPS, is DOING IT WRONG. That is a selfish player. The CW should be wearing High Vizier or, at a minimum, the Draconic set, to buff the team. Same with PVP TRs who run around in PVE who have evidently never heard of Wicked Reminder. I absolutely guarantee that a BIS PVE CW will have higher TEAM DPS than a BIS PVP CW.
And discussing PVP in terms of "premade vs. premade" is kinda silly in my view, since that represents maybe 1% of the PVP matches at any given time. How many players do you think have really pparticipated in an organized premade vs. premade, beyond simply a guildie inviting them for fun in a PVP match? If 99% of the PVP in this game is done by pug teams, and only 1% is by organized high-end premades, which do you think represents the typical PVP experience in this game? The BIS PVPers?
And besides, I have seen the same trollish behavior even from high-end PVPers playing their lowbie alts in PVP matches.
Exactly!
Sadly many many players and even those highly praised PVP guildies wear GS pushing items and gear. Have seen a dozen and had the privilege to roll a few times with them or play with or against them in IWD.
Yes PVP should be based on the majority, not that 1% of BiS geared wallet warriors or ranking list exploiters!
Trollish behavior and ranking board exploiting is especially done by those highly praised premades. I know one of these guilds from very close and communicate with few of their members on regular basis, boy they know all the dirty tricks and abuse them to hell, just to make that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ranking look better. They are on a very high level when it comes to humiliating low GS PUGs and no they don't get any penalty on ranking board...
But my point is, that the game on higher levels has got nothing to do with skill, zero. Had the opportunity as written above to fight a few of those "Gods" and they all take the easy root, easy PVP classes and exploited or payed rank 10s and freebie legendary items.
If we put the other side of those 99% with same gear and promotional items against them, trust me the picture would change dramatically. Owned a few of them on lowbie toons easely when they were not rolling together with their teams, was even kicked by them many times from matches, cause they couldn't bare the humiliating fact, they were zero without BiS gear and team.
PVP in this game is like the world beauty contests, the winner is not the most beautiful, but that woman, who was "lucky"enough to get there, same here, best PVPer isn't the best skilled, but the lucky one to have BiS gear and a good sponsor from behind...
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
PVP/PWE, it's all relative. New maps for pvp would be nice, new maps for pwe would be nice. However, if they really want to make things more interesting, they should increase the geo fence around spawned mobs to completely encompass the map...allow no gaps between mobs. A person can literally run all over every single map in the game, easily running 15 "feet" from a mob and they don't even see the person. Make it so to get to the other side of the map, you NEED to fight your way there.
That said, just like everyone else it would be great to create a better pvp pairing system. The last few weeks, I've seen more 5x4 down to 5x2 matches, where the other "teamates" just sit afk to get their 1 of 4 daily. Am I crazy, or did there used to be a vote boot system in pvp?
Comments
I don't care what you do. But don't call it "honorable combat" or "fighting worthy opponents", because it's not.
How can they rebound from this decline if people feel cheated, alienated or simply tired of it all? Quality development is an investment. Would you invest in a decaying business if you're getting less and less returns? Its a bit of a loop - the devs make changes that put players off, then the devs get less money to work with and end up making even more changes that put people off.. This has only one outcome
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Newcomers, young ppl and pve folk have problem with respecting unwritten agreement. BiS ppl tend to not attack on sight when the outcome is set. When you try to cap point or change the outcome you gonna die, thats simple. Sure theres an a.shole in any group. But veteran pvpers are not like you describe and your statements are afair and comes more likely from low elo.
Steel and Magic
of course its not, but its not players fault, but dev fault. anyway cant imagine scholaring someone in pvp systematicaly, its really not worth. i rather prefer giving advices through forum, like this.
Last two or shall i say 1 and a half Mods are entirely recycled content, with sadly no fresh idea in it. Welcome to the world of economic coding, like the Hollywood movies, all on tape and downloadable from a main library.
But for me, this wouldn't be the biggest problem, if we could see 2 year old bugs and lack of content, like for PVP fixed.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Sad really sad, i have about 150 peeps on my friend list and only 4 active of them now. I think it needs no comment...
What troubles me, that Cryptic still doesn't see this bad tendency and most of our posts and threads calling out for help are considered as an attack, but no, we are here to give advise as little people, the players, your base Dear Cryptic, listen more to us, pls. Thank you!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
It is, if you ever would have fought premade against premade. They are on equal standards, BIS. If one team surrenders, the other team takes/offers 1v1 fights. The PvP crowd thinned out in the last month and you cant compare PuG PvP with premade PvP. When fighting one of the 'old' crowd 1v1 in a semipremade and a PuG player attacks, the other players stops, till you had time to kill the PuG and regen.
Most of my PvP playing friends left, so I tend to do PvP in PuG teams. There is a high level of BS going on there. When playing my 24k GS PvP char, I get insulted as 'p2w' etc. On my alts ppl compain about the 'bad' (18k+) gear. Playing PuG one team dominates the other one most of the times. The same ppl who complain about you killing them 2v1 kill you a second later 4v1 and brag about it. When I am on the winning side of the ELO lottery, I kill ppl, till they state, that they give up or it is a 1v1, but one TR using stealth to sneak up on me or a teammate, attacking without a warning, is not 1v1, but a attack, so he gets pawned.
BTW, BI, as draconic templar, is not a sign for PvP players, but for GS pushers. All my PvP chars have PvE equip, personalized archmage rings, epic/ legendary artefacts and artefact gear. While a pure PvE char has a higher dps with similar gear a BIS PvP char has a higher dps than 90% of the PvE crowd (same class). High end PvP players know how to play their class and use the synergy of classes/ effects. Why do you think, that they lose their skill in PvE. Some of the highest dps in PvE I have seen was dished out by PvP players in their PvP gear.
When I ask for a zerg time for Tiamat, I inspect the ppl offering the time. I prefer to go with the ones offered by someone from a PvP guild, bc most of them have good gear and know how to play their chars.
It is the players' fault, at least to an extent. Individuals are responsible for their own decisions.
It's not about individual DPS. It is working together as a team.
In PVE, the 20k CW wearing BI/Profound gear and who has high individual DPS, is DOING IT WRONG. That is a selfish player. The CW should be wearing High Vizier or, at a minimum, the Draconic set, to buff the team. Same with PVP TRs who run around in PVE who have evidently never heard of Wicked Reminder. I absolutely guarantee that a BIS PVE CW will have higher TEAM DPS than a BIS PVP CW.
And discussing PVP in terms of "premade vs. premade" is kinda silly in my view, since that represents maybe 1% of the PVP matches at any given time. How many players do you think have really pparticipated in an organized premade vs. premade, beyond simply a guildie inviting them for fun in a PVP match? If 99% of the PVP in this game is done by pug teams, and only 1% is by organized high-end premades, which do you think represents the typical PVP experience in this game? The BIS PVPers?
And besides, I have seen the same trollish behavior even from high-end PVPers playing their lowbie alts in PVP matches.
As stated before, NOT ONE DECENT PVP PLAYER I KNOW plays CW in PvE with BI. Why would I say, that I have different PvE and PvP sets, if I use the PvP sets in PvE? To elaborate: CW HV, DC HP, GWF AoW, HR RG or draconic (AP gain), TR draconic (+10% CA dmg). You will find more renegade PvP than PvE CWs, buffing group dmg instead of their own (bc of the lifesteal of the cap feat in PvP, but the effect is the same).
The difference btw BIS PvE and BIS PvP speced players is there, as I said before, BUT it does not matter at all, bc either of them has better gear than 95% of the rest and can solo/duo most of the content (exept Tiamat). There are some BIS PvE players out there, but in my expirience (I play since beta) most PVE players, if and when they reach BIS gear, get bored of PvE and either a) start playing PvP, b) start an alt or c) stop playing.
Exactly!
Sadly many many players and even those highly praised PVP guildies wear GS pushing items and gear. Have seen a dozen and had the privilege to roll a few times with them or play with or against them in IWD.
Yes PVP should be based on the majority, not that 1% of BiS geared wallet warriors or ranking list exploiters!
Trollish behavior and ranking board exploiting is especially done by those highly praised premades. I know one of these guilds from very close and communicate with few of their members on regular basis, boy they know all the dirty tricks and abuse them to hell, just to make that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ranking look better. They are on a very high level when it comes to humiliating low GS PUGs and no they don't get any penalty on ranking board...
But my point is, that the game on higher levels has got nothing to do with skill, zero. Had the opportunity as written above to fight a few of those "Gods" and they all take the easy root, easy PVP classes and exploited or payed rank 10s and freebie legendary items.
If we put the other side of those 99% with same gear and promotional items against them, trust me the picture would change dramatically. Owned a few of them on lowbie toons easely when they were not rolling together with their teams, was even kicked by them many times from matches, cause they couldn't bare the humiliating fact, they were zero without BiS gear and team.
PVP in this game is like the world beauty contests, the winner is not the most beautiful, but that woman, who was "lucky"enough to get there, same here, best PVPer isn't the best skilled, but the lucky one to have BiS gear and a good sponsor from behind...
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Steel and Magic
That said, just like everyone else it would be great to create a better pvp pairing system. The last few weeks, I've seen more 5x4 down to 5x2 matches, where the other "teamates" just sit afk to get their 1 of 4 daily. Am I crazy, or did there used to be a vote boot system in pvp?