warlock has soulsparks and encounter to heal up
GWF has an encounter that heals up, forgot the name
hunter, has this enourmous selfhealing ability
CW?
GF?
DC and paladin can handle anything solo i guess, my dc normally has no lifetseal and no regen when PVE specced, so he doesn´t care about it
i think everyone will adapt in short time to the changes, probably it is not like running into all mobs pullling everything and kill it, but more think about the skills and the best setup to handle the situation, hope all is getting a little bit more challenging, don´t tell me your classes don´t have ways to heal up infight
atm you can go icewinddale with 16k GS and handle lots of encounter solo, at least with my DC and my Warlock, nearly all even the big ones
and if you can´t kill every mob group in the endcontent go sharandar or anywhere else, where the mobs are normally easy to handle, like i did and everyone should if he wants to develop his char, and stay out of tiamat until u got sharandar, dread ring and icewinddale-boons done, thats all
don´t exspect to go everywhere with green stuff and mobs just die instanly
btw you can pay to heal--> probably one of the ideas developping these changes
did anyone play darksouls btw-->every mobgroup is a challenge in this game and its fun pure
Most end-game single-player content such as dailies can easily be cleared even with fresh max-lv 10k GS characters that have zero LS or regen.... use a very small amount of AD that you've collected from your daily invokes and Rhix quests to buy some cheap cost-effective epic gear to GS up to 12k-ish, and that alone is enough to handle all dailies including minor Heroics in both IWD and WoD.
Seriously, if one cannot clear dailies without something healing you this much, then there's something wrong with the way one is playing the game.
Most end-game single-player content such as dailies can easily be cleared even with fresh max-lv 10k GS characters that have zero LS or regen.... use a very small amount of AD that you've collected from your daily invokes and Rhix quests to buy some cheap cost-effective epic gear to GS up to 12k-ish, and that alone is enough to handle all dailies including minor Heroics in both IWD and WoD.
Seriously, if one cannot clear dailies without something healing you this much, then there's something wrong with the way one is playing the game.
Do it as a 10k gs GF, post the video in this thread when you are done. Especially IWD.
GWF encounter is restoring strike
GF in all honesty, can block most incoming damage. I don't play one but also never seen one "suffering" from lack of survivability or self healing. They have means to tank damage in a different way.
CWs with their CC and DPS have been gods of PvE since ages. They really are the last class who should complain about PvE.
And on top of all that, PvE solo quests are as easy as a pie, mobs barely scratch you and you can easily outgear the content.
The way i see it: regeneration mainly useful in PvP where you have limited potions to recover fast in between fights. It's useful but i think it's supposed to work in sinergy with life steal and other healings from powers/ feats.
Life steal rng is a bit more concerning. I mean we must be able to reach 10% chance without sacrificing other stats or it's meaningless.
Honestly I have no freaking idea, how tank (regen build) can survive now in any decent pvp. Maybe, new feat for GF - hide?
Tanks don't really need old regeneration but in all honesty...tankyness.
A tank must go down slowly. Period. Right now, tanks get one shotted or DPS classes can dispose of them fast with all the piercing damage they get.
Dodging is >> damage mitigation right now and that's so wrong.
The way i see it, tanks should tank through fights with damage reduction and mitigation, so they should see their HP go down steadily but SLOWLY in a fight. No 1-shots, no big bursts. Regeneration healing them in between fights.
GWF should be back to old unstoppable mechanic with no regeneration from module 6. During unstoppable any build should get minimal damage and sentinels should get close to no damage. Enemies should deal damage in between unstoppables and avoid at-will spam on normal GWFs. But without regeneration and with current determination gain the GWF would go down slowly, have time to counterattack and survive enough. Mindless at-will spam would empower the GWF and allow him to fight for longer.
That's the way.
For GFs, their block is enough to allow them to "turtle tank" frontal attacks, plus they should get superior HP pool and damage resistance to have their HP go down slowly.
Regeneration should heal tanks in between fights.
Life steal should benefit DPS classes and be their way to increase a bit their in-fight survivability, but not to tank levels, while inferior HP pool should make them benefit less from pure regeneration between fights.
Tanks now are not tanks. They die faster than TRs, HRs, even CWs.
Tanks need tankyness and not old regeneration.
DPS classes need a little boost to survivability from life steal but not a easy way to fully heal constantly. They already have their defensive mechanics which, in all honesty, are right now far better than anything tanks have (GWFs and GFs).
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ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
edited March 2015
@pando
Yes Yes Yes.
But even when we are blocking, just 80% dmg is redused. Some kind of attacks ignore it at all. We are so vulnerable for CC. Tank now is a piece of shiet. The slowest class. With the lowest control skills. With the lowest dmg output. 30% of dmg reduction for 3 seconds after linging strike,. Just WOW.
About regen. Till now that was only chance to stay a bit longer in pvp. Without it, and with same block/DR mechanics - we are simply meat.
Ryoshin GF (4.2k) .Suicide Squad.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited March 2015
Not to mention some things can chip half of your health away behind guard. GFs can't do barrel rolls to escape.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
edited March 2015
snip, nvm
/10char
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Tanks don't really need old regeneration but in all honesty...tankyness.
A tank must go down slowly. Period. Right now, tanks get one shotted or DPS classes can dispose of them fast with all the piercing damage they get.
Dodging is >> damage mitigation right now and that's so wrong.
The way i see it, tanks should tank through fights with damage reduction and mitigation, so they should see their HP go down steadily but SLOWLY in a fight. No 1-shots, no big bursts. Regeneration healing them in between fights.
GWF should be back to old unstoppable mechanic with no regeneration from module 6. During unstoppable any build should get minimal damage and sentinels should get close to no damage. Enemies should deal damage in between unstoppables and avoid at-will spam on normal GWFs. But without regeneration and with current determination gain the GWF would go down slowly, have time to counterattack and survive enough. Mindless at-will spam would empower the GWF and allow him to fight for longer.
That's the way.
For GFs, their block is enough to allow them to "turtle tank" frontal attacks, plus they should get superior HP pool and damage resistance to have their HP go down slowly.
Regeneration should heal tanks in between fights.
Life steal should benefit DPS classes and be their way to increase a bit their in-fight survivability, but not to tank levels, while inferior HP pool should make them benefit less from pure regeneration between fights.
Tanks now are not tanks. They die faster than TRs, HRs, even CWs.
Tanks need tankyness and not old regeneration.
DPS classes need a little boost to survivability from life steal but not a easy way to fully heal constantly. They already have their defensive mechanics which, in all honesty, are right now far better than anything tanks have (GWFs and GFs).
Even if you dont have "GF" i agree with y this is the way to go.
But GFs and Seninels must have a way to mitigate the incoming dmg out of unstoppable and block.
Like Restoring strike /HD & GF weak healing Crushing Surge 150-400 /HD this is nothing .
I think they shoud have a way to regain they full hp at least by 5-10 % what is not a huge boost /hd.
Why i say this cuz rene CW and SW can full heal them self in pvp with they new 100-130 k hp this is total inba.
As someone who likes to play a healer, I wholeheartedly support the ever-loving <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of these changes. Healers may actually need to do something other than dps for once. Let's face it, devoted cleric is nothing but a high survivability dps class currently.
0
ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
edited March 2015
Just High survability dps class? What a shame. Ok, I can deal with that. Make GF high survability dps class. Would be acceptable. Now he cant' survive or dps either.
I'd give GFs "full block" on 180° radius. Take away target lock. Now GF can block damage 100% coming frontally. Adjust block duration accordingly so it needs some management and is not always up. Give superior HP pool and DR.
Reduce damage so that the class can deal medium steady damage. No big bursts.
Now you have a tank that can be countered getting behind them, or depleting their guard, or working as a team. But the tank is able to actually...tank and feel like the hardest thing to take down on the battlefield. Devs want to go back to "roles". GF role is to tank damage. Be a wall between enemy damage and his team.
You can kill it slowly solo. If you want to take it down faster, you do it as a team. On the other side, his DPS should be able to kill you too, but not fast or in big bursts. Not an immediate threat, but not even something you can overlook unless, well, you're a tank too.
If the fighter survives the fight, then regeneration allows him to recover fast and fight again at full HP soon.
GWF should work as it did in module 3, forcing players to focus DPS in between unstoppable with encounters and combos, and getting more powerful if the enemy, or group of enemy, spam at-wills. So not a real tank but more like a berserker. You focus smart, he goes down faster in a couple of unstoppables. You do it wrong (at-will spam on normal GWF), he goes unstoppable often and it gets harder and harder to kill.
I'd link determination gain to number of hits received. Few heavy hits is the right tactic, low damage spam makes the GWF last longer.
Now DPS classes can take it down faster, tanks do it slower.
Overall if GF is "high" survivability and medium damage, GWF should be "High" damage and "medium" survivability. Both work differently and require different strategies to counter them. You hit a GF shield, you waste time. You spam at-wills on GWF, you allow him to fight more. During unstoppable the GWF should absorb most of the incoming damage. Determination gain nerf in module 4 is more than enough to give other classes the time to focus.
Both fighters can fight in a brawl and rely on regeneration to recover faster between fights.
DPS classes being "Very high DPS" and "low survivability" (supposedly), with lower HP pool, would rely more on life steal and range/ dodges/ stealth but being, in any case, LESS survivable than fighters. Their DPS being able to kill a tank faster but not in seconds or in 1 shot.
GWF sprint can lose CC resistance in exchange for CC reduction: if a GWF times his sprint with the enemy CC, he can reduce damage and CC time a bit.
Reason for this: unlike dodge or block, GWF survivability on unstoppable only would depend entirely on what the enemy does. Giving sprint a bit of DR and only a bit of CC reduction would allow the GWF to increase A BIT his survivability, if they can time it correctly.
Now this way regeneration have a role on fighters.
But they need to get back their tankyness first...
I've always played a Righteous DC, since the game first released. The game was harder then, but overall much less fun to play. The main reason it's much more fun now is that with mod5, I finally felt on par with every other class. I was actually able to take on a "leader" role rather than strictly a "healer" role. I despise any changes to force people to be completely dependent on having a healer.
The state of the game now is that if people are dying, it's generally their fault. They didn't get out of a red circle, they are geared with too few defensive stats, or they did something otherwise stupid. People are NOT dying because they have a bad healer. The changes to Regen and Life Steal will certainly change the game back to "blame the healer". I can't stress enough how UNFAIR it is for healers that we must expect other players to STACK REGEN -- an otherwise nearly-worthless stat -- to improve OUR healing effectiveness.
I suspect that after the change, no one will stack Regen, and some people will also abandon Life Steal. Why waste the points on it when the healer can just min-max for more healing output? It just makes sense that way, 4 people wasting gear score on regen, or one person being hedged into a particular build and encounter load out, so they can be pure healers? Totally sapping the fun out of being a hybrid class.
And here's the real kicker: I depend almost exclusively on Life Steal to keep me alive when soloing. The Righteousness mechanic makes self-healing so weak that damage encounters with 10% Life Steal gives me bigger self-heals than I could possibly hope to get from healing encounters. I'm not really sure how to adapt to these changes.
If they don't fix the Repurpose Soul mechanic (which I doubt they will, it's been broken for two years) I am not sure how I am supposed to stay alive myself, let alone heal the rest of the group. It will turn the Righteous DC back in a novelty rather than a strong "leader" addition to a group. If they do fix Repurpose Soul, then it will take the place of Life Steal for soloing, and add a LOT of healing output for those of us focused on DPS/Debuff, and make up for the healing lost from Regen.
Comments
GWF has an encounter that heals up, forgot the name
hunter, has this enourmous selfhealing ability
CW?
GF?
DC and paladin can handle anything solo i guess, my dc normally has no lifetseal and no regen when PVE specced, so he doesn´t care about it
i think everyone will adapt in short time to the changes, probably it is not like running into all mobs pullling everything and kill it, but more think about the skills and the best setup to handle the situation, hope all is getting a little bit more challenging, don´t tell me your classes don´t have ways to heal up infight
atm you can go icewinddale with 16k GS and handle lots of encounter solo, at least with my DC and my Warlock, nearly all even the big ones
and if you can´t kill every mob group in the endcontent go sharandar or anywhere else, where the mobs are normally easy to handle, like i did and everyone should if he wants to develop his char, and stay out of tiamat until u got sharandar, dread ring and icewinddale-boons done, thats all
don´t exspect to go everywhere with green stuff and mobs just die instanly
btw you can pay to heal--> probably one of the ideas developping these changes
did anyone play darksouls btw-->every mobgroup is a challenge in this game and its fun pure
Most end-game single-player content such as dailies can easily be cleared even with fresh max-lv 10k GS characters that have zero LS or regen.... use a very small amount of AD that you've collected from your daily invokes and Rhix quests to buy some cheap cost-effective epic gear to GS up to 12k-ish, and that alone is enough to handle all dailies including minor Heroics in both IWD and WoD.
Seriously, if one cannot clear dailies without something healing you this much, then there's something wrong with the way one is playing the game.
Do it as a 10k gs GF, post the video in this thread when you are done. Especially IWD.
GWF encounter is restoring strike
GF in all honesty, can block most incoming damage. I don't play one but also never seen one "suffering" from lack of survivability or self healing. They have means to tank damage in a different way.
CWs with their CC and DPS have been gods of PvE since ages. They really are the last class who should complain about PvE.
And on top of all that, PvE solo quests are as easy as a pie, mobs barely scratch you and you can easily outgear the content.
The way i see it: regeneration mainly useful in PvP where you have limited potions to recover fast in between fights. It's useful but i think it's supposed to work in sinergy with life steal and other healings from powers/ feats.
Life steal rng is a bit more concerning. I mean we must be able to reach 10% chance without sacrificing other stats or it's meaningless.
Confidence in Dev Team at all time high (or maybe low - I forgot to check the second order derivative).
Tanks don't really need old regeneration but in all honesty...tankyness.
A tank must go down slowly. Period. Right now, tanks get one shotted or DPS classes can dispose of them fast with all the piercing damage they get.
Dodging is >> damage mitigation right now and that's so wrong.
The way i see it, tanks should tank through fights with damage reduction and mitigation, so they should see their HP go down steadily but SLOWLY in a fight. No 1-shots, no big bursts. Regeneration healing them in between fights.
GWF should be back to old unstoppable mechanic with no regeneration from module 6. During unstoppable any build should get minimal damage and sentinels should get close to no damage. Enemies should deal damage in between unstoppables and avoid at-will spam on normal GWFs. But without regeneration and with current determination gain the GWF would go down slowly, have time to counterattack and survive enough. Mindless at-will spam would empower the GWF and allow him to fight for longer.
That's the way.
For GFs, their block is enough to allow them to "turtle tank" frontal attacks, plus they should get superior HP pool and damage resistance to have their HP go down slowly.
Regeneration should heal tanks in between fights.
Life steal should benefit DPS classes and be their way to increase a bit their in-fight survivability, but not to tank levels, while inferior HP pool should make them benefit less from pure regeneration between fights.
Tanks now are not tanks. They die faster than TRs, HRs, even CWs.
Tanks need tankyness and not old regeneration.
DPS classes need a little boost to survivability from life steal but not a easy way to fully heal constantly. They already have their defensive mechanics which, in all honesty, are right now far better than anything tanks have (GWFs and GFs).
Yes Yes Yes.
But even when we are blocking, just 80% dmg is redused. Some kind of attacks ignore it at all. We are so vulnerable for CC. Tank now is a piece of shiet. The slowest class. With the lowest control skills. With the lowest dmg output. 30% of dmg reduction for 3 seconds after linging strike,. Just WOW.
About regen. Till now that was only chance to stay a bit longer in pvp. Without it, and with same block/DR mechanics - we are simply meat.
.Suicide Squad.
/10char
Even if you dont have "GF" i agree with y this is the way to go.
But GFs and Seninels must have a way to mitigate the incoming dmg out of unstoppable and block.
Like Restoring strike /HD & GF weak healing Crushing Surge 150-400 /HD this is nothing .
I think they shoud have a way to regain they full hp at least by 5-10 % what is not a huge boost /hd.
Why i say this cuz rene CW and SW can full heal them self in pvp with they new 100-130 k hp this is total inba.
.Suicide Squad.
Reduce damage so that the class can deal medium steady damage. No big bursts.
Now you have a tank that can be countered getting behind them, or depleting their guard, or working as a team. But the tank is able to actually...tank and feel like the hardest thing to take down on the battlefield. Devs want to go back to "roles". GF role is to tank damage. Be a wall between enemy damage and his team.
You can kill it slowly solo. If you want to take it down faster, you do it as a team. On the other side, his DPS should be able to kill you too, but not fast or in big bursts. Not an immediate threat, but not even something you can overlook unless, well, you're a tank too.
If the fighter survives the fight, then regeneration allows him to recover fast and fight again at full HP soon.
GWF should work as it did in module 3, forcing players to focus DPS in between unstoppable with encounters and combos, and getting more powerful if the enemy, or group of enemy, spam at-wills. So not a real tank but more like a berserker. You focus smart, he goes down faster in a couple of unstoppables. You do it wrong (at-will spam on normal GWF), he goes unstoppable often and it gets harder and harder to kill.
I'd link determination gain to number of hits received. Few heavy hits is the right tactic, low damage spam makes the GWF last longer.
Now DPS classes can take it down faster, tanks do it slower.
Overall if GF is "high" survivability and medium damage, GWF should be "High" damage and "medium" survivability. Both work differently and require different strategies to counter them. You hit a GF shield, you waste time. You spam at-wills on GWF, you allow him to fight more. During unstoppable the GWF should absorb most of the incoming damage. Determination gain nerf in module 4 is more than enough to give other classes the time to focus.
Both fighters can fight in a brawl and rely on regeneration to recover faster between fights.
DPS classes being "Very high DPS" and "low survivability" (supposedly), with lower HP pool, would rely more on life steal and range/ dodges/ stealth but being, in any case, LESS survivable than fighters. Their DPS being able to kill a tank faster but not in seconds or in 1 shot.
GWF sprint can lose CC resistance in exchange for CC reduction: if a GWF times his sprint with the enemy CC, he can reduce damage and CC time a bit.
Reason for this: unlike dodge or block, GWF survivability on unstoppable only would depend entirely on what the enemy does. Giving sprint a bit of DR and only a bit of CC reduction would allow the GWF to increase A BIT his survivability, if they can time it correctly.
Now this way regeneration have a role on fighters.
But they need to get back their tankyness first...
The state of the game now is that if people are dying, it's generally their fault. They didn't get out of a red circle, they are geared with too few defensive stats, or they did something otherwise stupid. People are NOT dying because they have a bad healer. The changes to Regen and Life Steal will certainly change the game back to "blame the healer". I can't stress enough how UNFAIR it is for healers that we must expect other players to STACK REGEN -- an otherwise nearly-worthless stat -- to improve OUR healing effectiveness.
I suspect that after the change, no one will stack Regen, and some people will also abandon Life Steal. Why waste the points on it when the healer can just min-max for more healing output? It just makes sense that way, 4 people wasting gear score on regen, or one person being hedged into a particular build and encounter load out, so they can be pure healers? Totally sapping the fun out of being a hybrid class.
And here's the real kicker: I depend almost exclusively on Life Steal to keep me alive when soloing. The Righteousness mechanic makes self-healing so weak that damage encounters with 10% Life Steal gives me bigger self-heals than I could possibly hope to get from healing encounters. I'm not really sure how to adapt to these changes.
If they don't fix the Repurpose Soul mechanic (which I doubt they will, it's been broken for two years) I am not sure how I am supposed to stay alive myself, let alone heal the rest of the group. It will turn the Righteous DC back in a novelty rather than a strong "leader" addition to a group. If they do fix Repurpose Soul, then it will take the place of Life Steal for soloing, and add a LOT of healing output for those of us focused on DPS/Debuff, and make up for the healing lost from Regen.