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Kicking in PvE content
ogarious
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
Ok folks, once again I've had to report 3 people in a PUG for kicking a group member in a skirmish for picking up gear.
I am not sure what punishments, if any are being handed out. I hope the offending players are getting permanently banned from the game, they deserve it. IT'S A GAME.
Honestly, at this point the whole kick from team option should be removed from Neverwinter. There is no reason good enough that it should stay in, considering how it's being abused in PvE and PvP content.
If you don't want to group with people who pick up gear, do not run in PUG groups period. It's that easy.
Granted the developers are at fault for not being able to successfully move where loot is posted on the chat screen, but the player base is suffering enough with how poorly the game is being ran that it doesn't need this HAMSTER on top of it.
I've got pretty much all my stuff at the top end now. So I run these things for the extra AD and alot of the time I do vote on stuff for my alts who have artifact equipment too. But most of the players here are trying to run these things to level up their gear. Show some respect for them.
I am not sure what punishments, if any are being handed out. I hope the offending players are getting permanently banned from the game, they deserve it. IT'S A GAME.
Honestly, at this point the whole kick from team option should be removed from Neverwinter. There is no reason good enough that it should stay in, considering how it's being abused in PvE and PvP content.
If you don't want to group with people who pick up gear, do not run in PUG groups period. It's that easy.
Granted the developers are at fault for not being able to successfully move where loot is posted on the chat screen, but the player base is suffering enough with how poorly the game is being ran that it doesn't need this HAMSTER on top of it.
I've got pretty much all my stuff at the top end now. So I run these things for the extra AD and alot of the time I do vote on stuff for my alts who have artifact equipment too. But most of the players here are trying to run these things to level up their gear. Show some respect for them.
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Most newbies I came across never respected senior players, so why should veterans do?
WTB Class Reroll please
Don't wanna be kicked? Be the leader.
You only have to read the posts above to see how kicking people has apparently become completely normal and acceptable (and expected?), and often for bogus or petty reasons. Removing the option entirely would not be without its problems but I really do think it's the lesser of two evils.
If you really don't like the team you're in your only option should be to leave the team rather than to bully someone else out of it.
Mob rule is ugly and toxic imho.
(I can't comment on PVP because it's just not my thing)
Many of Neverwinter's mechanics are. Which is a shame considering DnD has always been about cooperation and fun.
Hopefully they'll get around to adding that setting that enforces Greed runs (or Need runs).
It's a shame when a game's mechanics promote hostile and greedy behavior between its player base. And it makes me miss the MMOs where most dungeon drops are BoP and you can actually gear your character without stepping on the toes of greedy players looking to sell the item that was an upgrade for you, on the AH.
5 minutes later we told him to either die or get kicked, he kept going, so we kicked him and killed the boss in 3 minutes. A premade ESOT run takes ~7 minutes in total. We gave him 20 minutes, warned him, waited a few more minutes and then kicked him.
Majority rules, and if there are valid reason for kicking, why not. There is abuse, yes. But if you think, that rules (greedrun) dont apply to you or, that 4 ppl have to watch your epic 1 1/2 h bossfight, bc you want to, think again.
And then you find out you can be kicked as a leader for dungeons.
Anyway kicking shouldn't be removed, it's an important feature. The kickers being perma banned is a little too harsh. However kicking for that reason is extremely selfish and ridiculous. I'm just glad I haven't met many shallow people here myself.
You see, that just doesn't scan right.
You are obviously infected with the "kick-happy" disease but you are asking us to believe that you patiently waited over 20 minutes before you kicked someone from a dungeon you can do in 7 minutes. Those numbers make no sense.
But that is a moot point. Even if that scenario is accurate I still say that having no kick option at all is, on balance, the lesser of two evils.
If you have four great people and one real *beeep* why should the four have to leave group and reform rather than kicking?
While some things are probably not "fixable" and certain players will be toxic no matter what, there are mechanics that amplify and give incentive to such behavior.
For example, the fact that loot roll threshold is set to Green (and cannot be changed) in dungeons/skirmishes combined with the huge amount of green drops from trash mobs causes the screen to be cluttered by loot rolls and this may anger some of the kickers that are annoyed by all that mess on the screen.
Then there's the whole need/greed thing on loot rolls, which is probably the highest kick factor in the game. This still exists as a sort of uh... reminder that most of RPGs as we know are descendant from the original tabletop game that involved lots of dice rolls? With currencies, hourly quests, dailies, weeklies, campaign tasks and chest keys there are enough mechanics in the game to do away with the loot roll completely.
Toxic players will always exist, but their impact can be lessened or amplified by good or bad mechanics.
What he said. 4 players doing their job, one messing up on an ego trip, wasting everyones time. Even if we all would have left, guess what would have happened. Other players would have joined, watched him run in circles for 2 or 3 minutes and either left or... kicked him.
If I think, that the group cant handle the boss fight after a few tries, I leave. We qued premade with rightous DC and two CWs. We can duo the boss, why should we leave?
All that is really needed is three more variables added to the internal party data structure: a loot roll setting for green, blue, and purple items. I envision a simple dialog box with three drop-downs, one for each color. Each drop-down would present the same choices:
Use: you get to roll on it only if you can actually use it (or if no one can use it)
Want: you always get to roll on it
Pass: whoever picks it up, it is his (no roll)
Individual players should also have a personal settings dialog with one drop-down for those same colors:
Roll: always roll if the party rules allow it
Use: only rolif the party rules allow it and the player can use it
Pass: always pass on it
This CAN'T be hard for the devs to implement. Testing it would take longer than actually implementing it.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
It's there: "Party loot treshold" in the party menu. Just...
a) few people ever bothered to look at that dialog box thoroughly (up to and including you, it seems)
b) even fewer understood it
c) even less bother to use it
d) even way less less (or more less? - meh, no English native speaker) would under the immense pressure of Skirmish hour
e) you also waive the green enchantments' loot rolls...
And re. the original topic: IMHO kicking just so is at best rude. Kicking for needing in greed runs is educational. Kicking little Mr./Ms. Spiteful after admonition and him/her not desisting is fair game.
Because it's rude?
Because you wouldn't want it done to you?
Because other players are people too?
Because the game doesn't revolve around you?
So the guy loots all the greens? Either change the loot threshold or ask politely not to do it.
So the guy struggles with the last boss? Either educate him/her on proper tactics or just solo/duo/trio it yourselves.
PUGging means that you are teamed up with people who do things differently than you. As long as they aren't actively harming the team or stealing loot, you should just suck it up and deal with it. If you don't want the PUG experience, then don't PUG.
But please, try to put yourselves into the shoes of the new player. All of us I'm sure remember the first dungeon experience that was really tough for us and took multiple attempts on the final boss. How would you have felt if the group leader had kicked you from the team instead because you were "slowing them down"? And if you give any answer along the lines of "well of COURSE I would have understood if the group leader kicked me for being a newb!" then you are lying.
I dont pug for greed run but to play by the game rules,because I dont know who I am playing with
game rules need greed or pass ,your choice.most ppl that pug are ppl that need for upgrade and thats why there is a chest at the end of the dungeon.if the drop is not for you ,you can always try the chest
you want greed run,make your own party so you dont have to scream ninja in pugs
Setting the loot threshold to whatever you want works for a lot of situations, but isn't an option for any group formed by the in-game queue rather than manually created. Those groups are always set to green loot threshold and need/greed roll. That makes a lot of sense if you're a low level running Cloak Tower or Cragmire Crypts. For at least epic dungeons, it really should be set to blue, but the game doesn't allow it.
Kicking people for picking up loot is really stupid in most circumstances. If you don't want loot, you can pass on it or whatever; you shouldn't have the right to dictate that no one else in PUG gets any loot just because you don't want it. Passing on loot is a quick key press away. If you don't like the default placement of the loot window (which is, admittedly, obnoxious once you start getting a lot of green loot), it's easy to move it. I use a 1280x1024 monitor to play the game (I'm waiting on adaptive sync monitors before upgrading), and even at that resolution, there's plenty of space to move the loot window out of the way.
Quaternion from the previous forum
because willingly leaving a dungeon is voluntary while being kicked is a form of aggression.
volunteerism is a higher standard of morality than aggression.
To people who are kicked, remember to add everyone in the party to your ignore list to decrease the chance of future kicks.
How would ignoring them help? The queue has no idea who is on your ignore list, it will still pair you with people you have ignored. All you will end up doing is increasing your chance of being kicked because you wont be able to communicate with anyone.
Ignoring will help avoid those people in parties not formed via the queue.
Furthermore, if enough people start to ignore kickers, then eventually, queue parties may become more problematic and maybe the kickers will stop using the queue.
Actually I would find one person not listening to four others to be the aggressive one, and the one totally in the wrong and needing the ignore. When one person does that to four others it's called trolling, and kicking trolls is not a bad thing.
The thing is only two votes are needed to kick. So you may end up ignoring half the people who didn't kick you.
If you are concerned about being kicked for loot, then don't stay in the group when you see two people from the same guild, just leave. If something good drops from the boss, chances are one of them will be a jerk and kick, and the other will go along.
I believe kicking legitimate players just to prevent them from looting an item is by all means wrong. Some people clearly using this as an advantage. This could potentially abuse some people, yes.. But, this system is actually unique and essential. Developers just have to improve it and not remove. Because this is the reality of pugging isn't?. Everyone can roll on the artifact, mark and fragments simply because everyone can use it. If you get class specific item, none can touch it, but only your class. Wether it's a greed run or not, it's what considered "fair". Now, if you remove "kick" option completly, what happens is, you won't be able to replace those people who are AFK or immature. So, this option just needs to be temporarily disabled while everyone is looting. That's all. Trust me folks, this is much better than randomly getting kicked. You would rather let people roll [need] on whatever can be rolled need then deal with them later. -
- This is the only way and another good option would be to just don't pug.
It depends on why he won't listen. Try this one on for size: getting kicked because you don't want to cheat on a PK run (abusing the GM help dialog to skip all the mobs between the last two campfires). Is not listening to the rest of the party who wants to cheat still being in the wrong?
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
In the real world, you don't have a right to use force or self-defense simply because a person refuses to obey, except maybe in some authoritarian regimes where non-compliance is defined as "aggression".
It's unfortunate that some innocent people may end up on your ignore list if you ignore everyone in the party but casualties are a part of war. What is the alternative? do nothing?
Edit: leaving a party with two or players from the same guild is an excellent suggestion.