In the end, it all still boils down to choice. Until the scaling is actually finalized, I haven't seen anything compelling that would make the jump worth the investment required. If one chooses to make that investment, then it should be understood what that investment would require, and what changes are being made to obtaining RP to mitigate that investment.
"Not obsoleted" does not equate to "always BiS". It means that the current gear is still a viable and sufficient choice for existing and planned content. Unless you're a min-maxer that counts every single point, from what I've seen 70 gear is a sidegrade at best. At the dev-stated metric of "400 points in a stat is equal to 1% in that stat" with the new curves, 144 extra isn't even worth mentioning. To reiterate again: until scaling is finalized it's difficult to make a complete assessment.
Bottom line is that it's up to the player to decide if the few extra stats gained is worth the investment that would be required with a new weapon. And there should be an investment required. With scaling, the current artifact weapons are still a good, viable choice. They're just not going to be the absolute BEST choice.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
In the end, it all still boils down to choice. Until the scaling is actually finalized, I haven't seen anything compelling that would make the jump worth the investment required. If one chooses to make that investment, then it should be understood what that investment would require, and what changes are being made to obtaining RP to mitigate that investment.
"Not obsoleted" does not equate to "always BiS". It means that the current gear is still a viable and sufficient choice for existing and planned content. Unless you're a min-maxer that counts every single point, from what I've seen 70 gear is a sidegrade at best. At the dev-stated metric of "400 points in a stat is equal to 1% in that stat" with the new curves, 144 extra isn't even worth mentioning. To reiterate again: until scaling is finalized it's difficult to make a complete assessment.
Bottom line is that it's up to the player to decide if the few extra stats gained is worth the investment that would be required with a new weapon. And there should be an investment required. With scaling, the current artifact weapons are still a good, viable choice. They're just not going to be the absolute BEST choice.
With all due respect , but you are either misinformed or intentionally misleading people . The dragon artifact off-hand only has bonus artifact powers for the old passives/encounters . The elemental dragon off-hand has bonus powers for the new skills/passives and whatnot .So its not just stats
Your attempts to calm us down are futile ,and only making things worse.
With all due respect , but you are either misinformed or intentionally misleading people . The dragon artifact off-hand only has bonus artifact powers for the old passives/encounters . The elemental dragon off-hand has bonus powers for the new skills/passives and whatnot .So its not just stats
Your attempts to calm us down are futile ,and only making things worse.
I think you're mistaking my intention here. I'm not trying to "calm anyone" because I know people are going to complain for no other reason beyond "new artifact gear, this sucks", so that's an exercise in futility. I'm just saying look at the bigger picture involved.
A few extra bells and whistles or new shinies doesn't justify the RP cost or investment of time that would be required. I stand by my statements: It is a choice, not mandatory. I'm not sure you even read the entirety of my post and merely cherry-picked what you wanted to argue.
The devs never promised that current artifact gear would continue to be BiS. They said it would not be obsoleted quickly. Translation: the gear would not be so eclipsed as to make its replacement mandatory in order to remain at a competitive (competitive, which does not necessarily mean "always BiS") level for some time. So, it's a matter of whether you feel the change in gear is worth the investment that would be required.
I will reiterate: Current artifact gear is still quite viable as a choice. However, it isn't always going to be the BiS choice--the devs never promised that. Whether you feel that the upgrade is worth the cost is up to you. IMO, unless you're counting every single point and new shiny, there isn't a compelling reason to switch from current artifacts to the new ones at this time. If you choose to upgrade, then you have to understand the cost that comes with it, and that there IS a significant cost.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Again, still not enough to justify the investment involved. I stand by my statements: It is a choice, not mandatory. I'm not sure you even read the entirety of my post and merely cherry-picked what you wanted to argue.
The devs never promised that current artifact gear would continue to be BiS. They said it would not be obsoleted quickly. Translation: the gear would not be so eclipsed as to make its replacement almost mandatory for some time. So, it's a matter of whether you feel the change in gear is worth the investment that would be required.
Well, yeah, everything is a choice. Even salvaging /discarding all your gear is a choice . Is that good enough reason to welcome the new changes? Thats not really an argument .
And with all due respect , I for 1 read your posts as a whole (repetitive as they are -no pun intended) . Do you read my posts ? Cuz while I commented on you saying that "hey its not the end of the world,just feed your old artifact to the new one , and even tho you 'll lose 60% of your investment , everything is fine "- which I , as your customer feel insulted by , you replied back with the same pill "choices,not that great an upgrade, not mandatory to use something that will clearly rule next mod" (ask HRs how they will feel when they take on their new awesome passive and realize that they could enhance it furthermore ,only to find out that they either throw a ridiculous amount of ad/dollars away , or spend another ridiculous amount of dollars anyway). As I said , not making this any better.
Well, yeah, everything is a choice. Even salvaging /discarding all your gear is a choice . Is that good enough reason to welcome the new changes? Thats not really an argument .
And with all due respect , I for 1 read your posts as a whole (repetitive as they are -no pun intended) . Do you read my posts ? Cuz while I commented on you saying that "hey its not the end of the world,just feed your old artifact to the new one , and even tho you 'll lose 60% of your investment , everything is fine "- which I , as your customer feel insulted by , you replied back with the same pill "choices,not that great an upgrade, not mandatory to use something that will clearly rule next mod" (ask HRs how they will feel when they take on their new awesome passive and realize that they could enhance it furthermore ,only to find out that they either throw a ridiculous amount of ad/dollars away , or spend another ridiculous amount of dollars anyway). As I said , not making this any better.
At the end of the day, it's still a choice. Nothing you have said changes that. If you choose to upgrade, you do so with the knowledge that there is a significant investment involved, and that you will not get back the full investment of your RP. If not, then your current artifact is not a terrible choice. However, it was never promised that current artifact gear would perpetually remain BiS. You simply aren't going to be grandfathered a legendary (or mythic, should they go that far) because you feel you should have one. It isn't about "ruling" or "being the absolute best" although, yes, I know there are people that count every point and passive and what-have-you and seemingly only care about being top dog. It's about whether it's worth it to you to make that change. You have a choice this time, instead of the alternative being clearly and patently inferior.
Keep in mind that I'm a player who has farmed quite a bit for the gear that I do have--and that's part of why I don't see a compelling need to upgrade. I just don't see the need to farm even more RP as well as spending a substantial amount of AD to get a passive that may add a percentage point or two to my damage or whatnot. There's just nothing that stands out and says "you must get this now". I've also never seen anything OMGWTFBBQ in the current passives that the offhands have, let alone any new ones. You do, or some other guy does--fine, that's your choice, but you do so with the understanding of the investment involved. If it's not acceptable to you, no one's holding a gun to your head and saying "upgrade NOW!!". Just know that you aren't going to get a straight trade-up. You're going to have to work a little. Again, if it's unacceptable to you, no one's saying that it's an absolute requirement. Look at the bigger picture, please, instead of just moaning "OMG, more artifact gear, really?"
Also, you're not MY customer--I'm strictly a volunteer, not paid staff. Please do read the disclaimer in my sig: My opinions are NOT the company line, nor do my opinions represent those of anyone employed by Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. As a player of this game, I am allowed my own opinions and therefore they should not be taken in any way as indicative of the company's stance towards players or any given issue. Kindly do refrain from mischaracterizing my opinions (and these have been clearly stated at many points as my personal opinions) as those of the company, as they are not.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
At the end of the day, it's still a choice.
(...) Again, if it's unacceptable to you, no one's saying that it's an absolute requirement. Look at the bigger picture, please, instead of just moaning "OMG, more artifact gear, really?"
Also, you're not MY customer--I'm strictly a volunteer, not paid staff.
Well said.
I suppose that there will be other weapon that won't be artifact and can be as good or not far behind.
0
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited February 2015
I will respond to the community moderator's flow of argument, as he is attempting to provide an interpretation to the original assurance given by developers that is contrary to what was stated in context. Additionally, the community moderator has now abandoned his argument earlier of 'not speculating' to 'its your fault anyway because it was your choice." I will respond to both now.
First, the interpretation of the developer's assurance is misinterpreted. There is a normal course of replacement of gears in module releases across multiple kinds of MMOs. Any person who has played any kind of online game has the normative expectation that gear can be replaced by better gear and will be replaced in time with the release of new modules, especially level cap raises. Thus, pursuing of investment in gear is on a cost/benefit analysis (other than the role playing subclass). This is common and needs no further proof. What is uncommon are assurances given by developers that certain kinds of gear or items will remain at or near BiS because of the extreme cost of making them so. In fact, when artifacts and artifact gear were announced and released, the unusual and rare assurance given by the developers to the player base was to convince them that investing in these items was worth it, not because of the maxed stats that they might give, but because the level of their advantage could only be achieved by difficult investment (time and/or money). Therefore, developers gave assurances that such investment would be maintained in the long term. This assurance added longevity to the cost/benefit analysis of the gear. CHOICES made by players to invest was based on the unusual/rare assurance of the developers, and not solely on their own internal desire to be maxed at all times. This is where, once again, the community moderator, has obfuscated the complaint. Player's choices were made on the assurance of the developers, assurances which were (and are) uncommon and unexpected. Therefore, to state that the choice for artifact gear is merely about wanting to max is not the whole of the argument. I repeat: what player, if they had known that the artifact gear would be obsoleted, would have maxed the gear? Answer: not all. There are other ways that time and money could have been invested that have remained from module to module.
As to the second point that the new gear does not obsolete the old gear, I reply with initial assurance given by the devs as to the superiority of the gear, its high cost, and its longevity assured. The cost to get the bonuses of the gear in time and/or money were known by both developers and players. It is not difficult to see that some feel the brunt of such cost under the currently restrictive rp-gain system. However, the assurance that such investment in time and money in said gear was attached directly to the nature of that gear's usefulness and its promised usefulness in the long term. Here is where the community moderator, again, has attempted to make the choice that of your own. It is widely known that the formulaic curves in mod 6 are so vastly different with the level cap increases that current gear points are almost worthless at higher levels. Read that again. And again! So, the developers only promised to raise the current artifact gear 20 (some have urged 30) levels to compete. However, the stat points of even the reworked gear does not fit the assurance given that the investment in that gear would be the same. New artifact gear surpasses old artifact gear, not by a little, but by a lot. Why is this? Because level 70 content will require such a massive increase in statistical categories TO REMAIN USEFUL (ie. not be obsolete). But, instead of changing current artifact gear into level 70 equivalent gear with similar stats, rather there is a release of new level 70 artifact gear (that will probably be permitted to go above level 60 as well). Current artifact gear, even with reworked stats, is so poor in comparison to ANY gear on preview (not just other artifact gear), as to make USEFULNESS at level 70 epic content questionable at best. The only category that is buffed to a level 70ish similarity is the damage of the main hand weapon. Necks, belts, offhand, main hand: all languish currently well below the statistical categories that will be necessary to be USEFUL in the new dungeons and HEs at level 70. Adding 20 levels to current artifact gear will do little to make it comparable (rp to usefulness gain). Thus, in comparison to all the variations of testing on preview at level 70, current artifact gear in its makeup will be OBSOLETE. And, the buff on the old artifact gear has not happened to be equivalent to permit usefulness. And in conjunction with this, NEW ARTIFACT GEAR is released, gear that will have stats and bonuses (etc) that will keep USEFULNESS at level 70 epic dungeons. So, the evidence is this: there is NEW ARTIFACT GEAR that is far superior to current gear, current gear on preview, even buffed, is woefully deficient at level 70, current gear is supposed to be better if we add 20 levels(which will be a large investment of rp for less gain than if one just gets epic or NEW ARTIFACT GEAR, which requires loss of investment AND replacement TO BE USEFUL AT LEVEL 70 epic. This scenario is exactly CONTRARY to the unusual assurance given by developers to the player base when artifact gear was released.
Finally, some above seem to think that it is a requirement to get artifact gear. It isn't. It never was. But do not let that mistake the initial complaint that many within the player based invested in artifact gear based on the unusual assurances by the developers that such investment would be for the long term. I fault no one if they chose to ignore assurances by developers and never used artifact gear. My complaint is still the same, a potential broken assurance by the developers that investment in artifact gear would be long term. If it comes to pass, I will take it as broken trust and will play the game with that kind of attitude.
Thank you for your time in reading this! Regardless of future posts, I have done my duty to make my disappointment in the possible obsolescence of current artifact gear known.
Honestly starting new isnt a bad thing (even though as stated you can get rp from old weps even though its a really small amount compared to what was put in). At level 70 people need to use new gear etc. No level 50 weapon or belt is as good as a level 60 one. Much of the rp used was gained through bots etc. Yes some people gained it the hard way (I for one have never used a bot and have 2 characters with full legendaries except for the necks). Maybe with the new drop rates of higher stones refining will be easier, also you can now gain refinement from leadership. Gaining access to resonance stones at a much higher rate in the new mod will actually make going from 1-max faster than going from 1-60 in the current artifacts. Sure the RP cost is doubled pretty much but you gain RP more than 2x as fast. In the end this will give the average player a better chance to compete. New players will be able to come into the game without feeling like they are 2 years of farming behind.
There is also a downside. Players do feel like they wasted much needed RP. Most people did expect current artifact equipment to be best in slot for longer than a few months. It is obvious the developers are still learning what works and what does not work. With artifact equipment being released at the start of level 70 characters hopefully this will give its life as BIS a much longer timeline.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited February 2015
The supporters simply don't get it. Everyone was against artifact gear when it was announced. People gave in and just worked with it. But only a couple months later the thing you invested so much in is just going to end up as trash in slot after pumping way too much RP required to get them to legendary. DEVs and supporters telling you too bad, gotta go through it all over again, if you can afford it this time. Have a nice day.
It is quite amusing to see the extent to which people have gone into complete and utter freakout mode over their artifact equipment when we don't even know how good/bad the new gear will be, how the whole stats/weapon scaling thing will work out (it isn't working correctly right now), how plentiful RP will be in the new mod, or anything like that.
It is quite amusing to see the extent to which people have gone into complete and utter freakout mode over their artifact equipment when we don't even know how good/bad the new gear will be, how the whole stats/weapon scaling thing will work out (it isn't working correctly right now), how plentiful RP will be in the new mod, or anything like that.
Yep. Said this earlier in the thread, no less. As I've said, I see nothing compelling to make me want to jump from 60 to 70 artifact gear, and that's even if my gear WERE full legendary. For those who think I don't understand what it is to have to earn RP, I'll just say that I put anywhere from 6 to 10 hours DAILY farming. I know it's not fun. And that's just one of many reasons why I don't see the point in upgrading--and therefore having to re-farm 60% of that investment--for a few stats and a new shiny passive. Even at full legendary, when scaling is applied it's still a viable choice for almost all content (but, obviously, the min-max world of competitive PVP) in the game now and for some time in the future.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited February 2015
It has been stated that content in the game is not designed with the thought that players must have the best gear and enchants to complete it. If one goes that route, that is their decision. I only have one character that has more than one artifact equipment, both only at blue quality, and the others that do have artifact equipment are green belts. I do just fine in any and all content thus far and doing just fine in that content lets me gradually raise in power and efficiency whilst enjoying the game regardless of what is considered "best in slot."
The better or "best" things in the game are there for who want it. They are not there for anyone who "needs" it, for no one "needs" it.
What you clearly do not understand is, every customer who paid money to get BiS in Module 5 will certainly feel left in the dark. Module 5 aint out and the developers start working on Module 6 to outdate just implemented gear? Are you serious? It should last atleast one module without be touched. Everything else is blasphemy.
Those artifacts are not obsolete. They will do just fine.
What you clearly do not understand is, every customer who paid money to get BiS in Module 5 will certainly feel left in the dark. Module 5 aint out and the developers start working on Module 6 to outdate just implemented gear? Are you serious? It should last atleast one module without be touched. Everything else is blasphemy.
And again, it was never promised that existing artifacts would remain BiS; rather, stated that they would not be rendered obsolete and an upgrade would be necessary. It's not necessary to upgrade your arti to 70 to complete any content in mod 6.
To sit here and rail and rage against the devs for the "crime" of offering an alternative is completely premature considering that we don't even know the full extent of how existing artifact gear will pan out in mod 6.
And for those who claim that I'm blindly defending the devs: My first thought was "why?". Then I looked at all the available facts and figures, and decided it wasn't something that needed to be raged about because, IMO, it's not much more than a sidegrade, and there isn't enough available and concrete facts at hand to make an objective comparison.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
What you clearly do not understand is, every customer who paid money to get BiS in Module 5 will certainly feel left in the dark. Module 5 aint out and the developers start working on Module 6 to outdate just implemented gear? Are you serious? It should last atleast one module without be touched. Everything else is blasphemy.
Here's a tip for long-lasting happiness in Neverwinter. Don't BUY gear for the sake of BUYING gear. Earn it. Play for it. Grind for it. Or whatever. Exchange some Zen for AD if you feel the need to rush.
But at the end of the day, the money you spend on Neverwinter should be considered entertainment dollars. Like going to the movies. Or playing mini-golf. Or buying a date dinner. Enjoy what you spend the money on because of the activity, not the end result.
And even to that end, it's an MMO. It's always changing. And there's always going to be someone with better gear. And there's always going to be better gear to get. It never ends, so while you might get to the summit of one mountain, there's always another on the horizon.
At the end of the day, no one cares what YOUR gear looks like. Seeing a guy in full R10's, Legendary Artifacts, Purple Companions, with the highest achievable gearscore doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't make my game "less fun". And when I look at people like that, do you know what I think?
"Gee, I hope they had fun getting all that stuff."
Here's a tip for long-lasting happiness in Neverwinter. Don't BUY gear for the sake of BUYING gear. Earn it. Play for it. Grind for it. Or whatever. Exchange some Zen for AD if you feel the need to rush.
But at the end of the day, the money you spend on Neverwinter should be considered entertainment dollars. Like going to the movies. Or playing mini-golf. Or buying a date dinner. Enjoy what you spend the money on because of the activity, not the end result.
And even to that end, it's an MMO. It's always changing. And there's always going to be someone with better gear. And there's always going to be better gear to get. It never ends, so while you might get to the summit of one mountain, there's always another on the horizon.
At the end of the day, no one cares what YOUR gear looks like. Seeing a guy in full R10's, Legendary Artifacts, Purple Companions, with the highest achievable gearscore doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't make my game "less fun". And when I look at people like that, do you know what I think?
"Gee, I hope they had fun getting all that stuff."
Well said. I see many people that seem to approach the game as a job instead of fun and I am perplexed by their attitudes. I myself only ever do what I want to do, I play less than optimal builds purely for the sake of fun (was not always the case). I don't always do what is the best but instead focus on what is the funnest.
i wanna see how this game would even survive if ppls like us didnt spend money on it.
Considering that the average joe, in aggregate, spends more than the "whales", I think it'd do just fine.
To elaborate: Which do you think makes more money and has more impact....15k players spending a modest 20-30 bucks a month, or a couple hundred spending upwards of 100 dollars monthly?
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
tbh i dunno i spend few K dollars to gear up my 3 toons i just simply dont want to do it all over again.
i would like to get r70 artifacts to make some progress but not with current RP prices maybe if they changed hoards to what they used to be b4 nerf and change RP prices on zen market lets say 50-100 zen per blood ruby then i would be fine with it but right now?
another few K dollars to gear up all over again is just too much.
Well, there are some changes being made to the invocation system AND leadership is granting some unbound RP as rewards. It's a start in the correct direction.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
It has been stated that content in the game is not designed with the thought that players must have the best gear and enchants to complete it. If one goes that route, that is their decision. I only have one character that has more than one artifact equipment, both only at blue quality, and the others that do have artifact equipment are green belts. I do just fine in any and all content thus far and doing just fine in that content lets me gradually raise in power and efficiency whilst enjoying the game regardless of what is considered "best in slot."
The better or "best" things in the game are there for who want it. They are not there for anyone who "needs" it, for no one "needs" it.
Alright, I'll bite.
1 - This is more of a question, but if it is not needed to play the game, then why even put it into the game in the first place? They're already threads after threads of people complaining that PvE content is too easy, so why add in items that make it even easier, what's the point?
2 - Whether you play it or not, how do you expect players without artifact gear to compete with those that have maxed legends in PvP? This is an issue more so with the weapon/offhand since they give additional slots to then use more enchantments than the average player, not to mention how the artifact gear in general has vastly superior stats to normal weapons/belts/neck/etc. Furthermore, a player cannot use lower levels (below max/60 rank) artifact neck/belts without losing the defence/offence slot which is replaced with a utility slot.
3 - If no one "needs" the gear, why is there a 43 page thread complaining about the lack of RP, in their perspective, in order to enhance the artifact gear? Why is it that every poll done on the topic shows that people on average, on the forum atleast, do not like the gear?
4 - If it's not needed, how does it make Cryptic any money?
With the changes to refinement stones and them being easier to get. Hopefully they increase the higher level runestones/enchantments RP value a little, because that could also drop the cost of refinement stones more. even just a 25% rise on general enchants/runestones would be great.
Lets put it this way. You used to earn BiS and not have the hassle of the refining system. Now we have that system which imbalances and divides players more in a way that doesn't mean anything to level up but is extremely hassling. If they were going to outclass it then they shouldn't have had the refining system as it is or have a much better return rate. It's funny that defenders seem to need the 2x rp argument just to go "hey it works". Why try to defend something that vaguely works for a single weekend over something that works full stop... Considering the way it went, a better system would be for them to drop legendary but be harder to get. Instead they made them easy and monetised the hell out of it. It's be more acceptable if running dungeons gave decent rp returns, but there isn't any positive thing I can think of with the way they did it.
It has been stated that content in the game is not designed with the thought that players must have the best gear and enchants to complete it. If one goes that route, that is their decision. I only have one character that has more than one artifact equipment, both only at blue quality, and the others that do have artifact equipment are green belts. I do just fine in any and all content thus far and doing just fine in that content lets me gradually raise in power and efficiency whilst enjoying the game regardless of what is considered "best in slot."
The better or "best" things in the game are there for who want it. They are not there for anyone who "needs" it, for no one "needs" it.
You are correct. Having "bis" gear is not a requirement but a choice. Also refining artifacts can be done exclusively by playing the game through the use of Dragon Hoards for example, thus one can achieve a status close to bis for free if one dedicates enough time to playing (grinding) the game.
All of the above is true, nobody is forcing us, yeah? So, how long do you think can Neverwitner stay online if everyone was getting his gear as a free player? How about we all get real for a change? Just for a moment or two, yeah? Neverwinter was designed as a free-to-play game, meaning it relies on microtransactions to not only stay afloat but for profit too. This means that any and all developer decisions are made with the notion of making players pay. This should be common knowledge. So, what exactly are you moderatos trying to say here? That we can all spend our virtual time happily as free players? Because that simply isnt true. If we were all free there wouldnt be a game to spend our time in. Freaking hypocrisy everywhere! Im tired of it. When I installed this game I was aware I'll have to pay for some things. Im working full time and I cant grind all day long. Paying for the things I want is not a problem for me, as long as I get lasting value in return. How lasting is the return value right now ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I keep saying that with a good 2x event refining this offhand will be easier then bringing the old one to lv 80.
The problem is just the idea that i have to farm again for something i already have while having to face another time the rng for bonuses
You are correct. Having "bis" gear is not a requirement but a choice. Also refining artifacts can be done exclusively by playing the game through the use of Dragon Hoards for example, thus one can achieve a status close to bis for free if one dedicates enough time to playing (grinding) the game.
All of the above is true, nobody is forcing us, yeah? So, how long do you think can Neverwitner stay online if everyone was getting his gear as a free player? How about we all get real for a change? Just for a moment or two, yeah? Neverwinter was designed as a free-to-play game, meaning it relies on microtransactions to not only stay afloat but for profit too. This means that any and all developer decisions are made with the notion of making players pay. This should be common knowledge. So, what exactly are you moderatos trying to say here? That we can all spend our virtual time happily as free players? Because that simply isnt true. If we were all free there wouldnt be a game to spend our time in. Freaking hypocrisy everywhere! Im tired of it. When I installed this game I was aware I'll have to pay for some things. Im working full time and I cant grind all day long. Paying for the things I want is not a problem for me, as long as I get lasting value in return. How lasting is the return value right now ?
A game can be perfectly profitable and enjoyable without needing any money to be spent. The thing is that being free2play you have to deal with being left behind in effectiveness, and being a supporter you have to deal with not so great returns... It doesn't have to be like that, and your satisfaction is going to depend on how much you can overlook that.
I for one don't see it as a bad thing. If change and the saying "out with the old in with the new" was really bad then the world would have problems. Yes the this is a game but it is also going to have the same exp as RL. How many people have you read in zone chat telling people to buy a new computer because they are having problems? I did just buy a new laptop and I'm not as happy with it as I was with my 7 old one but because it was cost effective to buy a new one over fixing the old one I bought one. If the game stayed the same just because you spend money on it you would be rather bored within a month. They have to change it to keep old players playing and to help new player's come to it. The bottom line is everything is about choice in life no matter if it is on a game or in RL.
And to cut people off before they say I don't understand I have 4 pieces of gear to refine. I have had to pick which ones to do. I can understand the feeling but I also like to play the game just to play it not because I have to have the big and the bad right now. I enjoy this game and it is far better then other MMO's I've played.
If you oppose sending money on the new artif eq then don't. My question to would what are you working towards in this game? If it's to be the person sitting in zone chat in WoD and putting down those with lower gs then you might have a argument. Me for one I enjoy having new content to play and new goals to work towards. All in all it is a game.
stealth is survival skills (and not tanking skills, that is really different)
stealth is damage
stealth is mobility
stealth is everything
everything is stealth
Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
So u buy a new computer every 3-4 month? good to know. Noone is mad that the game goes on, but the speed is the problem. We recieved our offhand in DECEMBER 2014 understood=?
We recieved our offhand in DECEMBER 2014 understood=?
My second toon received his offhand just two days ago, but that's fine. He'll level it up using whatever drops he gets and then when Mod 6 arrives he'll decide whether he wants to aim at the new one or not.
By the time Mod 6 arrives anyone who got their offhand in December will have had it for three months. Three months is a lifetime in an MMO game.
Comments
"Not obsoleted" does not equate to "always BiS". It means that the current gear is still a viable and sufficient choice for existing and planned content. Unless you're a min-maxer that counts every single point, from what I've seen 70 gear is a sidegrade at best. At the dev-stated metric of "400 points in a stat is equal to 1% in that stat" with the new curves, 144 extra isn't even worth mentioning. To reiterate again: until scaling is finalized it's difficult to make a complete assessment.
Bottom line is that it's up to the player to decide if the few extra stats gained is worth the investment that would be required with a new weapon. And there should be an investment required. With scaling, the current artifact weapons are still a good, viable choice. They're just not going to be the absolute BEST choice.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
With all due respect , but you are either misinformed or intentionally misleading people . The dragon artifact off-hand only has bonus artifact powers for the old passives/encounters . The elemental dragon off-hand has bonus powers for the new skills/passives and whatnot .So its not just stats
Your attempts to calm us down are futile ,and only making things worse.
I think you're mistaking my intention here. I'm not trying to "calm anyone" because I know people are going to complain for no other reason beyond "new artifact gear, this sucks", so that's an exercise in futility. I'm just saying look at the bigger picture involved.
A few extra bells and whistles or new shinies doesn't justify the RP cost or investment of time that would be required. I stand by my statements: It is a choice, not mandatory. I'm not sure you even read the entirety of my post and merely cherry-picked what you wanted to argue.
The devs never promised that current artifact gear would continue to be BiS. They said it would not be obsoleted quickly. Translation: the gear would not be so eclipsed as to make its replacement mandatory in order to remain at a competitive (competitive, which does not necessarily mean "always BiS") level for some time. So, it's a matter of whether you feel the change in gear is worth the investment that would be required.
I will reiterate: Current artifact gear is still quite viable as a choice. However, it isn't always going to be the BiS choice--the devs never promised that. Whether you feel that the upgrade is worth the cost is up to you. IMO, unless you're counting every single point and new shiny, there isn't a compelling reason to switch from current artifacts to the new ones at this time. If you choose to upgrade, then you have to understand the cost that comes with it, and that there IS a significant cost.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Well, yeah, everything is a choice. Even salvaging /discarding all your gear is a choice . Is that good enough reason to welcome the new changes? Thats not really an argument .
And with all due respect , I for 1 read your posts as a whole (repetitive as they are -no pun intended) . Do you read my posts ? Cuz while I commented on you saying that "hey its not the end of the world,just feed your old artifact to the new one , and even tho you 'll lose 60% of your investment , everything is fine "- which I , as your customer feel insulted by , you replied back with the same pill "choices,not that great an upgrade, not mandatory to use something that will clearly rule next mod" (ask HRs how they will feel when they take on their new awesome passive and realize that they could enhance it furthermore ,only to find out that they either throw a ridiculous amount of ad/dollars away , or spend another ridiculous amount of dollars anyway). As I said , not making this any better.
At the end of the day, it's still a choice. Nothing you have said changes that. If you choose to upgrade, you do so with the knowledge that there is a significant investment involved, and that you will not get back the full investment of your RP. If not, then your current artifact is not a terrible choice. However, it was never promised that current artifact gear would perpetually remain BiS. You simply aren't going to be grandfathered a legendary (or mythic, should they go that far) because you feel you should have one. It isn't about "ruling" or "being the absolute best" although, yes, I know there are people that count every point and passive and what-have-you and seemingly only care about being top dog. It's about whether it's worth it to you to make that change. You have a choice this time, instead of the alternative being clearly and patently inferior.
Keep in mind that I'm a player who has farmed quite a bit for the gear that I do have--and that's part of why I don't see a compelling need to upgrade. I just don't see the need to farm even more RP as well as spending a substantial amount of AD to get a passive that may add a percentage point or two to my damage or whatnot. There's just nothing that stands out and says "you must get this now". I've also never seen anything OMGWTFBBQ in the current passives that the offhands have, let alone any new ones. You do, or some other guy does--fine, that's your choice, but you do so with the understanding of the investment involved. If it's not acceptable to you, no one's holding a gun to your head and saying "upgrade NOW!!". Just know that you aren't going to get a straight trade-up. You're going to have to work a little. Again, if it's unacceptable to you, no one's saying that it's an absolute requirement. Look at the bigger picture, please, instead of just moaning "OMG, more artifact gear, really?"
Also, you're not MY customer--I'm strictly a volunteer, not paid staff. Please do read the disclaimer in my sig: My opinions are NOT the company line, nor do my opinions represent those of anyone employed by Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. As a player of this game, I am allowed my own opinions and therefore they should not be taken in any way as indicative of the company's stance towards players or any given issue. Kindly do refrain from mischaracterizing my opinions (and these have been clearly stated at many points as my personal opinions) as those of the company, as they are not.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Well said.
I suppose that there will be other weapon that won't be artifact and can be as good or not far behind.
First, the interpretation of the developer's assurance is misinterpreted. There is a normal course of replacement of gears in module releases across multiple kinds of MMOs. Any person who has played any kind of online game has the normative expectation that gear can be replaced by better gear and will be replaced in time with the release of new modules, especially level cap raises. Thus, pursuing of investment in gear is on a cost/benefit analysis (other than the role playing subclass). This is common and needs no further proof. What is uncommon are assurances given by developers that certain kinds of gear or items will remain at or near BiS because of the extreme cost of making them so. In fact, when artifacts and artifact gear were announced and released, the unusual and rare assurance given by the developers to the player base was to convince them that investing in these items was worth it, not because of the maxed stats that they might give, but because the level of their advantage could only be achieved by difficult investment (time and/or money). Therefore, developers gave assurances that such investment would be maintained in the long term. This assurance added longevity to the cost/benefit analysis of the gear. CHOICES made by players to invest was based on the unusual/rare assurance of the developers, and not solely on their own internal desire to be maxed at all times. This is where, once again, the community moderator, has obfuscated the complaint. Player's choices were made on the assurance of the developers, assurances which were (and are) uncommon and unexpected. Therefore, to state that the choice for artifact gear is merely about wanting to max is not the whole of the argument. I repeat: what player, if they had known that the artifact gear would be obsoleted, would have maxed the gear? Answer: not all. There are other ways that time and money could have been invested that have remained from module to module.
As to the second point that the new gear does not obsolete the old gear, I reply with initial assurance given by the devs as to the superiority of the gear, its high cost, and its longevity assured. The cost to get the bonuses of the gear in time and/or money were known by both developers and players. It is not difficult to see that some feel the brunt of such cost under the currently restrictive rp-gain system. However, the assurance that such investment in time and money in said gear was attached directly to the nature of that gear's usefulness and its promised usefulness in the long term. Here is where the community moderator, again, has attempted to make the choice that of your own. It is widely known that the formulaic curves in mod 6 are so vastly different with the level cap increases that current gear points are almost worthless at higher levels. Read that again. And again! So, the developers only promised to raise the current artifact gear 20 (some have urged 30) levels to compete. However, the stat points of even the reworked gear does not fit the assurance given that the investment in that gear would be the same. New artifact gear surpasses old artifact gear, not by a little, but by a lot. Why is this? Because level 70 content will require such a massive increase in statistical categories TO REMAIN USEFUL (ie. not be obsolete). But, instead of changing current artifact gear into level 70 equivalent gear with similar stats, rather there is a release of new level 70 artifact gear (that will probably be permitted to go above level 60 as well). Current artifact gear, even with reworked stats, is so poor in comparison to ANY gear on preview (not just other artifact gear), as to make USEFULNESS at level 70 epic content questionable at best. The only category that is buffed to a level 70ish similarity is the damage of the main hand weapon. Necks, belts, offhand, main hand: all languish currently well below the statistical categories that will be necessary to be USEFUL in the new dungeons and HEs at level 70. Adding 20 levels to current artifact gear will do little to make it comparable (rp to usefulness gain). Thus, in comparison to all the variations of testing on preview at level 70, current artifact gear in its makeup will be OBSOLETE. And, the buff on the old artifact gear has not happened to be equivalent to permit usefulness. And in conjunction with this, NEW ARTIFACT GEAR is released, gear that will have stats and bonuses (etc) that will keep USEFULNESS at level 70 epic dungeons. So, the evidence is this: there is NEW ARTIFACT GEAR that is far superior to current gear, current gear on preview, even buffed, is woefully deficient at level 70, current gear is supposed to be better if we add 20 levels(which will be a large investment of rp for less gain than if one just gets epic or NEW ARTIFACT GEAR, which requires loss of investment AND replacement TO BE USEFUL AT LEVEL 70 epic. This scenario is exactly CONTRARY to the unusual assurance given by developers to the player base when artifact gear was released.
Finally, some above seem to think that it is a requirement to get artifact gear. It isn't. It never was. But do not let that mistake the initial complaint that many within the player based invested in artifact gear based on the unusual assurances by the developers that such investment would be for the long term. I fault no one if they chose to ignore assurances by developers and never used artifact gear. My complaint is still the same, a potential broken assurance by the developers that investment in artifact gear would be long term. If it comes to pass, I will take it as broken trust and will play the game with that kind of attitude.
Thank you for your time in reading this! Regardless of future posts, I have done my duty to make my disappointment in the possible obsolescence of current artifact gear known.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
There is also a downside. Players do feel like they wasted much needed RP. Most people did expect current artifact equipment to be best in slot for longer than a few months. It is obvious the developers are still learning what works and what does not work. With artifact equipment being released at the start of level 70 characters hopefully this will give its life as BIS a much longer timeline.
Yep. Said this earlier in the thread, no less. As I've said, I see nothing compelling to make me want to jump from 60 to 70 artifact gear, and that's even if my gear WERE full legendary. For those who think I don't understand what it is to have to earn RP, I'll just say that I put anywhere from 6 to 10 hours DAILY farming. I know it's not fun. And that's just one of many reasons why I don't see the point in upgrading--and therefore having to re-farm 60% of that investment--for a few stats and a new shiny passive. Even at full legendary, when scaling is applied it's still a viable choice for almost all content (but, obviously, the min-max world of competitive PVP) in the game now and for some time in the future.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
The better or "best" things in the game are there for who want it. They are not there for anyone who "needs" it, for no one "needs" it.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
And again, it was never promised that existing artifacts would remain BiS; rather, stated that they would not be rendered obsolete and an upgrade would be necessary. It's not necessary to upgrade your arti to 70 to complete any content in mod 6.
To sit here and rail and rage against the devs for the "crime" of offering an alternative is completely premature considering that we don't even know the full extent of how existing artifact gear will pan out in mod 6.
And for those who claim that I'm blindly defending the devs: My first thought was "why?". Then I looked at all the available facts and figures, and decided it wasn't something that needed to be raged about because, IMO, it's not much more than a sidegrade, and there isn't enough available and concrete facts at hand to make an objective comparison.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Here's a tip for long-lasting happiness in Neverwinter. Don't BUY gear for the sake of BUYING gear. Earn it. Play for it. Grind for it. Or whatever. Exchange some Zen for AD if you feel the need to rush.
But at the end of the day, the money you spend on Neverwinter should be considered entertainment dollars. Like going to the movies. Or playing mini-golf. Or buying a date dinner. Enjoy what you spend the money on because of the activity, not the end result.
And even to that end, it's an MMO. It's always changing. And there's always going to be someone with better gear. And there's always going to be better gear to get. It never ends, so while you might get to the summit of one mountain, there's always another on the horizon.
At the end of the day, no one cares what YOUR gear looks like. Seeing a guy in full R10's, Legendary Artifacts, Purple Companions, with the highest achievable gearscore doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't make my game "less fun". And when I look at people like that, do you know what I think?
"Gee, I hope they had fun getting all that stuff."
Well said. I see many people that seem to approach the game as a job instead of fun and I am perplexed by their attitudes. I myself only ever do what I want to do, I play less than optimal builds purely for the sake of fun (was not always the case). I don't always do what is the best but instead focus on what is the funnest.
Considering that the average joe, in aggregate, spends more than the "whales", I think it'd do just fine.
To elaborate: Which do you think makes more money and has more impact....15k players spending a modest 20-30 bucks a month, or a couple hundred spending upwards of 100 dollars monthly?
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Well, there are some changes being made to the invocation system AND leadership is granting some unbound RP as rewards. It's a start in the correct direction.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Also, dailies are giving out RP stones.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Alright, I'll bite.
1 - This is more of a question, but if it is not needed to play the game, then why even put it into the game in the first place? They're already threads after threads of people complaining that PvE content is too easy, so why add in items that make it even easier, what's the point?
2 - Whether you play it or not, how do you expect players without artifact gear to compete with those that have maxed legends in PvP? This is an issue more so with the weapon/offhand since they give additional slots to then use more enchantments than the average player, not to mention how the artifact gear in general has vastly superior stats to normal weapons/belts/neck/etc. Furthermore, a player cannot use lower levels (below max/60 rank) artifact neck/belts without losing the defence/offence slot which is replaced with a utility slot.
3 - If no one "needs" the gear, why is there a 43 page thread complaining about the lack of RP, in their perspective, in order to enhance the artifact gear? Why is it that every poll done on the topic shows that people on average, on the forum atleast, do not like the gear?
4 - If it's not needed, how does it make Cryptic any money?
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
You are correct. Having "bis" gear is not a requirement but a choice. Also refining artifacts can be done exclusively by playing the game through the use of Dragon Hoards for example, thus one can achieve a status close to bis for free if one dedicates enough time to playing (grinding) the game.
All of the above is true, nobody is forcing us, yeah? So, how long do you think can Neverwitner stay online if everyone was getting his gear as a free player? How about we all get real for a change? Just for a moment or two, yeah? Neverwinter was designed as a free-to-play game, meaning it relies on microtransactions to not only stay afloat but for profit too. This means that any and all developer decisions are made with the notion of making players pay. This should be common knowledge. So, what exactly are you moderatos trying to say here? That we can all spend our virtual time happily as free players? Because that simply isnt true. If we were all free there wouldnt be a game to spend our time in. Freaking hypocrisy everywhere! Im tired of it. When I installed this game I was aware I'll have to pay for some things. Im working full time and I cant grind all day long. Paying for the things I want is not a problem for me, as long as I get lasting value in return. How lasting is the return value right now ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
No need to use artif eq exception if all your enchamnent already r12
The problem is just the idea that i have to farm again for something i already have while having to face another time the rng for bonuses
A game can be perfectly profitable and enjoyable without needing any money to be spent. The thing is that being free2play you have to deal with being left behind in effectiveness, and being a supporter you have to deal with not so great returns... It doesn't have to be like that, and your satisfaction is going to depend on how much you can overlook that.
/10char
And to cut people off before they say I don't understand I have 4 pieces of gear to refine. I have had to pick which ones to do. I can understand the feeling but I also like to play the game just to play it not because I have to have the big and the bad right now. I enjoy this game and it is far better then other MMO's I've played.
If you oppose sending money on the new artif eq then don't. My question to would what are you working towards in this game? If it's to be the person sitting in zone chat in WoD and putting down those with lower gs then you might have a argument. Me for one I enjoy having new content to play and new goals to work towards. All in all it is a game.
stealth is damage
stealth is mobility
stealth is everything
everything is stealth
Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
My second toon received his offhand just two days ago, but that's fine. He'll level it up using whatever drops he gets and then when Mod 6 arrives he'll decide whether he wants to aim at the new one or not.
By the time Mod 6 arrives anyone who got their offhand in December will have had it for three months. Three months is a lifetime in an MMO game.
Change is good otherwise we all go stale.