I copied a few characters from live to preview. After that you login to another account on preview and put some items on the AH. With your copied characters you buy these items. Collect the ADs on your alternate account. Put an item onthe AH on your main character you want the ADs on. Logout and purchase the item with the other account.
thus should rename the preview for illusion / hope or a more appropriate name. anyway I thank your answer! I felt a ****
wow!
after they stole us every good playable way to farm ADs they even take away the leadership which was the last way to get to an amount with which we could catch up to long time players. no chance to participate at the RP market for example then buy it with real money.
if they want to stop the goldsellers with that they should find a way to stop multiaccounting and sort out the trades that are done.
but this would take some effort. instead of that they slap the real players again right in the face.
i didn´t like the heartless way they are designing the game and mod6 doesn´t seem change anything.
if it´s like that when it goes live it´s time for me to find a game where actually someone cares about a good gaming experince
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
So even if you got NOTHING but White stones from bag, that's a substantial improvement when it comes to total wealth generated.
Sure, it it wasn't overpriced due to almost non existent supply. Still, it beats the spellplague barrels. Just a shame it's a 4 hour task, makes it a pain.
So how about we all take the time to do a little research before we make ugly declarations about the game, the devs and the future of leadership?
It doesn't change the fact that the ones he did gave a low return rate.
Personally I predict there's for the most part not going to be any benefit to the extra leadership levels. Leadership is a long term investment and there are a lot of people that aren't too happy. I mean people were saying that artifact gear was meant to be slow, but now it appears that you really can't be expected to do it legit in time... Personally I'd advise people not to make the same mistake twice and not to invest heavily to be BiS only for a way too heavy investment for short term gain.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
Rushed my Leadership to 22. Ran out of AD, but I'll get some more this afternoon.
I had enough to open up 47 Artifact bags.
White: 6 Stability, 12 Power, 15 Union
Green: 3 Stability, 6 Power, 4 Union
Blue: 1 Union
So that's roughly 70% white, 27% green, 3% blue. Maybe after enough boxes that smooths out to 70/25/5%.
That's really good.
If we can assume a similar curve for the Resonance Stone bag, that means the expected value of each bag is over 4k AD with current prices.
None of the stones coming out of either bag were bound.
If that stays, it's a SUBSTANTIAL buff to Leadership in the form new ways to generate RP.
Personally, I would recommend that Cryptic make all the drops from these bags Bind to Account, unless they really do want to crash the market for RP, which in my opinion, wouldn't be a bad thing...but it does throw another bone to bots, potentially.
I think having these Bind to Account would create substantial downward pressure on the refinement market, without opening up another avenue to botters.
EDIT: It's also a smart move because it reduces the overall amount of AD being generated by Leadership, but replaces it with those RP items. So in a way, it dramatically bends the curve downward for AD being generated by leadership farms. Instead the choice is made to generate RP.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
For completeness sake, here's the Thaumaturge shots. They're the Enchantment/Runestone equivalent to Resonance Stones.
Actually the drops from the new Enchanted Coffer look good. I never bothered opening Leadership chests, but some R5s, Peridots are worth it imho.
We'll see how it all adds up. I think we absolutely have to get away from the fact that farming with Dragon Hoard Enchants is the only viable way to progress in the RP war and adding minor stuff to the profession is a step in the right direction.
And yes, should be BtA, please don't make them BoP like the bags.
they should give RPs as reward for hard dungeons or something like that.
it´s so idiotic that the game with one of the best action based fighting is degraded to a monoton and boring game experience through grinding and professions...
they should give RPs as reward for hard dungeons or something like that.
it´s so idiotic that the game with one of the best action based fighting is degraded to a monoton and boring game experience through grinding and professions...
I would love to hear their way of thinking here as well.
Leadership can be botted, so adding RPs to the profession is not the natural way of rewarding the legit player. We haven't seen the new dungeons yet, but at this point it's mandatory that every run nets you a substantial amount of RP from the mobs, boss or DD chest outside the enchantments they already drop. Otherwise I'd consider it a bust. The loot tables for the older dungeons should be upgraded as well.
Another minor yet very effective tweak would be letting the Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing enchants proc for every kill you contributed to and not only every killing blow. That alone would make running dungeons as effective as boring RP grind in 60 areas. That said, the enchants have to scale to the mob-level beyond level 60 to make this effective, which they currently don't.
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
edited February 2015
I have a mixed reaction to the proposed changes to leadership.
Lvls 21-25 look very interesting indeed, as shown in the above thread responses. AD + rp + a little gold (worthless, but oh well). The queue times are long, but the AD from the level 25 would only require 2 white levels to reduce it to less than 24 hours. The AD (2000) would be less than if someone could squeeze in 4x Fight Spellplague, but some of us have to sleep. So, if you did 2x Fight Spellplague + 1xCollect Taxes in a 24-hour period (which is what I do for some slots), the total AD would be 1600. Thus, I would get 400 more AD in the same amount of time, and I would not need green, blue, or epic to get it. So, lvl 25 = 3x2000 AD = 6k.
Lvl 20 is the one that concerns me. They increased the time to 16 hours for the same amount of AD and leadership reward. This is concerning because it is now easier to get AD and get more leadership exp from 4x Collect Taxes (3200 AD, 320 exp in 32 hours of queueing) than from 2x Destroy Enemy (3200 AD, 240 exp in 32 hours of queueing. Basically a level 20 task is now worth less than a level 11 one. The chest and the copper do not make up for leadership experience lost. Additionally, it would be easier to stagger the 4x Collect Taxes at 8 hours each than 2x Destroy Enemy at 16 hours each. Also, as already pointed out, to reduce the 16 hours to about 12 will require purchases of rare or epic Leadership resources.
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
A district map costs you about 300-ish AD. So subtract 1200 from that, and you get 2000 "earned" AD from 4x Collect Taxes.
DEC is free.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited February 2015
Just saw this rare task, too. You need one wand of detect aberrant and one wand of detect demons as resources.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited February 2015
i think its not meaningfull that 20 lessers from 100 bags unless you have army of leadership alts, if you consider amounts for increased levels. next please ...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
i think its not meaningfull that 20 lessers from 100 bags unless you have army of leadership alts, if you consider amounts for increased levels. next please ...
It's more than you can currently get with Leadership...that's what we're comparing it to.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited February 2015
more? what more? educate ))
peridots or minor resonance are or will be almost worthless for refining gear over 50 or 70
A district map costs you about 300-ish AD. So subtract 1200 from that, and you get 2000 "earned" AD from 4x Collect Taxes.
DEC is free.
Not exactly. Only if you buy the maps....
Basically, the 16 hours would give you 1 queue per day for the 1600. And then you would have to fill in with a 6 or 8 hour, without purchasing higher level assets. Since the district map comes from Fight Spellplague, you can probably only get 3 Collect Taxes per day anyway without buying maps. But the loss of AD in buying maps would compensate for the increase in leadership exp and the ability to stagger queues better with lower level assests.
OPTIONS for 9 slots of leadership for AD (not including rare tasks or AD from Invoking):
OPTION 1
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--twice per day, 1 epic or 2 blue assets each, 9600 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 3***
Total AD per day = 20400.
Expenditures to get: Epic assets (1.5Mil ADish) or Blue Assets (1.8Mil ADish) per toon.
OPTION 2:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
6x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 4800AD (3 maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day - 18,000 gross (17,100 net)
Expenditures to get: 900 AD per day.
OPTION 3:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 1200AD (not at same time as Spellplague in previous line)
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of Visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day: 16,800 (this is the affect of the change at lvl 20)
Expenditures to get: none.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 3. It would take 416 days and 16 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than OPTION 3.
Comparing OPTION 2 to OPTION 3. Option 2 is superior to Option 3 as long as the price of District Maps does not go above 400 AD/map and you can self-supply 3 maps per day from the Fight Spellplague barrel rewards.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 2. It would take 454 days and 12 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than Option 2.
FINAL COMPARISON:
1. If one were to add the planned lvl 25 tasks to the current level 20 task (12 hour task time), one would make 20,400 AD per day, but without the need for epic or rare asset purchases.
2. If one were to compare current 9 slot AD (similar to an Option 3 at level 20 leadership) to new 9 slot AD (Option 3 at level 25 leadership), the amount of AD earned per day is exactly the same.
CONCLUSION: If you want to continue making AD at the current rate and do not plan on purchasing assets, you must level leadership to 25.
So the sky is not falling people: if you only use white assets you will get back to Mod 5 levels of AD production -- or better yet, use some of the new tasks to create the RP that is the main use for AD right now anyways.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
You can always sell them, though, instead of using them for Collect Taxes. They aren't "free" from the barrels, since using one for Collect Taxes "costs" you the 300 AD you would've gotten from selling them. So with that, it's actually better to do "Fight Spellplagued" simply because you can sell those assets in the bag and get actual Astral Diamonds, instead of RAD.
But even then, as it stands now I don't think you'll even consider doing "Collect Taxes" with the new Refinement bags that drop.
Overall, despite what people are desperately trying to spin, it looks like Leadership actually got buffed. Sure, you have to level it up to get the new benefits, but that's a given.
I for one would not mind, if cryptic decided to put an end to those leadership exploit armies (i.e. 1 leadership toon per account, would instantly solve the AD botting issue)
If by solve, you mean that people could go from directly or indirectly paying for character slots to creating multiple free accounts, then yes. Also some people have a limit on what they want to spend on pixel stuff they don't actually own. I for one have spent a fair amount and built up an army so that I didn't need to spend thousands which is ridiculous. You're also miles off from what is "driving away valuable, paying customers".
Comments
thus should rename the preview for illusion / hope or a more appropriate name. anyway I thank your answer! I felt a ****
after they stole us every good playable way to farm ADs they even take away the leadership which was the last way to get to an amount with which we could catch up to long time players. no chance to participate at the RP market for example then buy it with real money.
if they want to stop the goldsellers with that they should find a way to stop multiaccounting and sort out the trades that are done.
but this would take some effort. instead of that they slap the real players again right in the face.
i didn´t like the heartless way they are designing the game and mod6 doesn´t seem change anything.
if it´s like that when it goes live it´s time for me to find a game where actually someone cares about a good gaming experince
That's the wrong bag, friend. These are the new bags that contain RP stones.
What you opened was the equivalent to the next level of Leadership chest.
EDIT: Look at prices for just the Resonance Stones.
White = 1500 AD
Green = 9000 AD
Blue = 30,000 AD
So even if you got NOTHING but White stones from bag, that's a substantial improvement when it comes to total wealth generated.
Looking at the Power Stones.
White = 950 AD
Green = 2300 AD
Blue = 13,500 AD
Again, for an 8 hour task, that's pretty incredible.
I'm going to get the help of a friend to transfer some AD over on test to see if the stones are BoP, BoA, or what. That will be the big tell here.
I'm honestly hoping for BoA stones...that will be an OUTSTANDING buff to Leadership. If they're not bound, it'll send market prices for RP crashing.
So how about we all take the time to do a little research before we make ugly declarations about the game, the devs and the future of leadership?
It doesn't change the fact that the ones he did gave a low return rate.
Personally I predict there's for the most part not going to be any benefit to the extra leadership levels. Leadership is a long term investment and there are a lot of people that aren't too happy. I mean people were saying that artifact gear was meant to be slow, but now it appears that you really can't be expected to do it legit in time... Personally I'd advise people not to make the same mistake twice and not to invest heavily to be BiS only for a way too heavy investment for short term gain.
I had enough to open up 47 Artifact bags.
White: 6 Stability, 12 Power, 15 Union
Green: 3 Stability, 6 Power, 4 Union
Blue: 1 Union
So that's roughly 70% white, 27% green, 3% blue. Maybe after enough boxes that smooths out to 70/25/5%.
That's really good.
If we can assume a similar curve for the Resonance Stone bag, that means the expected value of each bag is over 4k AD with current prices.
None of the stones coming out of either bag were bound.
If that stays, it's a SUBSTANTIAL buff to Leadership in the form new ways to generate RP.
Personally, I would recommend that Cryptic make all the drops from these bags Bind to Account, unless they really do want to crash the market for RP, which in my opinion, wouldn't be a bad thing...but it does throw another bone to bots, potentially.
I think having these Bind to Account would create substantial downward pressure on the refinement market, without opening up another avenue to botters.
EDIT: It's also a smart move because it reduces the overall amount of AD being generated by Leadership, but replaces it with those RP items. So in a way, it dramatically bends the curve downward for AD being generated by leadership farms. Instead the choice is made to generate RP.
We'll see how it all adds up. I think we absolutely have to get away from the fact that farming with Dragon Hoard Enchants is the only viable way to progress in the RP war and adding minor stuff to the profession is a step in the right direction.
And yes, should be BtA, please don't make them BoP like the bags.
it´s so idiotic that the game with one of the best action based fighting is degraded to a monoton and boring game experience through grinding and professions...
Yes I know, but I took the task with the Enchanted Coffers because I think many people will do this task because of the peridots and the 4h duration.
I opened 350 Resonant Bags
251x Minor Resonance Stone
98x Lesser Resonance Stone
1x Resonance Stone
I would love to hear their way of thinking here as well.
Leadership can be botted, so adding RPs to the profession is not the natural way of rewarding the legit player. We haven't seen the new dungeons yet, but at this point it's mandatory that every run nets you a substantial amount of RP from the mobs, boss or DD chest outside the enchantments they already drop. Otherwise I'd consider it a bust. The loot tables for the older dungeons should be upgraded as well.
Another minor yet very effective tweak would be letting the Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing enchants proc for every kill you contributed to and not only every killing blow. That alone would make running dungeons as effective as boring RP grind in 60 areas. That said, the enchants have to scale to the mob-level beyond level 60 to make this effective, which they currently don't.
Lvls 21-25 look very interesting indeed, as shown in the above thread responses. AD + rp + a little gold (worthless, but oh well). The queue times are long, but the AD from the level 25 would only require 2 white levels to reduce it to less than 24 hours. The AD (2000) would be less than if someone could squeeze in 4x Fight Spellplague, but some of us have to sleep. So, if you did 2x Fight Spellplague + 1xCollect Taxes in a 24-hour period (which is what I do for some slots), the total AD would be 1600. Thus, I would get 400 more AD in the same amount of time, and I would not need green, blue, or epic to get it. So, lvl 25 = 3x2000 AD = 6k.
Lvl 20 is the one that concerns me. They increased the time to 16 hours for the same amount of AD and leadership reward. This is concerning because it is now easier to get AD and get more leadership exp from 4x Collect Taxes (3200 AD, 320 exp in 32 hours of queueing) than from 2x Destroy Enemy (3200 AD, 240 exp in 32 hours of queueing. Basically a level 20 task is now worth less than a level 11 one. The chest and the copper do not make up for leadership experience lost. Additionally, it would be easier to stagger the 4x Collect Taxes at 8 hours each than 2x Destroy Enemy at 16 hours each. Also, as already pointed out, to reduce the 16 hours to about 12 will require purchases of rare or epic Leadership resources.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
DEC is free.
Which is great. At the current AH prices, that's over 1.3 million AD, or over 3800 AD/bag.
It's more than you can currently get with Leadership...that's what we're comparing it to.
peridots or minor resonance are or will be almost worthless for refining gear over 50 or 70
Not exactly. Only if you buy the maps....
Basically, the 16 hours would give you 1 queue per day for the 1600. And then you would have to fill in with a 6 or 8 hour, without purchasing higher level assets. Since the district map comes from Fight Spellplague, you can probably only get 3 Collect Taxes per day anyway without buying maps. But the loss of AD in buying maps would compensate for the increase in leadership exp and the ability to stagger queues better with lower level assests.
OPTIONS for 9 slots of leadership for AD (not including rare tasks or AD from Invoking):
OPTION 1
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--twice per day, 1 epic or 2 blue assets each, 9600 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 3***
Total AD per day = 20400.
Expenditures to get: Epic assets (1.5Mil ADish) or Blue Assets (1.8Mil ADish) per toon.
OPTION 2:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, white asset each, 2400AD.
6x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, white asset, 4800AD (3 maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day - 18,000 gross (17,100 net)
Expenditures to get: 900 AD per day.
OPTION 3:
3x Lvl 25--once per day, 2 white assets each, 6000 AD.
3x Lvl 20--once per day, 1 white asset each, 4800 AD
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--2x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD.
3x Lvl 10 (Fight Spellplague)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 1200AD (not at same time as Spellplague in previous line)
3x Lvl 11 (Collect Taxes)--1x per day, 1 white asset each, 2400AD (no maps purchased).
***Realistic time for sleep included***
***Number of Visits to Professions each day = 4***
Total AD per day: 16,800 (this is the affect of the change at lvl 20)
Expenditures to get: none.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 3. It would take 416 days and 16 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than OPTION 3.
Comparing OPTION 2 to OPTION 3. Option 2 is superior to Option 3 as long as the price of District Maps does not go above 400 AD/map and you can self-supply 3 maps per day from the Fight Spellplague barrel rewards.
Comparing OPTION 1 to OPTION 2. It would take 454 days and 12 hours to break even on the asset purchases. Then, OPTION 1 would begin providing more AD than Option 2.
FINAL COMPARISON:
1. If one were to add the planned lvl 25 tasks to the current level 20 task (12 hour task time), one would make 20,400 AD per day, but without the need for epic or rare asset purchases.
2. If one were to compare current 9 slot AD (similar to an Option 3 at level 20 leadership) to new 9 slot AD (Option 3 at level 25 leadership), the amount of AD earned per day is exactly the same.
CONCLUSION: If you want to continue making AD at the current rate and do not plan on purchasing assets, you must level leadership to 25.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
Checkmate, thanks for doing the math.
So the sky is not falling people: if you only use white assets you will get back to Mod 5 levels of AD production -- or better yet, use some of the new tasks to create the RP that is the main use for AD right now anyways.
You can always sell them, though, instead of using them for Collect Taxes. They aren't "free" from the barrels, since using one for Collect Taxes "costs" you the 300 AD you would've gotten from selling them. So with that, it's actually better to do "Fight Spellplagued" simply because you can sell those assets in the bag and get actual Astral Diamonds, instead of RAD.
But even then, as it stands now I don't think you'll even consider doing "Collect Taxes" with the new Refinement bags that drop.
Overall, despite what people are desperately trying to spin, it looks like Leadership actually got buffed. Sure, you have to level it up to get the new benefits, but that's a given.
Better find a comfortable couch. As of right it, it's all unbound.
If by solve, you mean that people could go from directly or indirectly paying for character slots to creating multiple free accounts, then yes. Also some people have a limit on what they want to spend on pixel stuff they don't actually own. I for one have spent a fair amount and built up an army so that I didn't need to spend thousands which is ridiculous. You're also miles off from what is "driving away valuable, paying customers".
Alright, so there's two sides. I am only against 'abusers', not against actual dedicated gamers.
Thanks for the clarification.
I don't think so. Current peridots, white pearls, and marks are not bound.
Also, you can create only a limited amount per day. Much less than with dragon hoard enchants.
Well, I guess we'll see.
http://tinypic.com/r/w1y3ya/8
L25 RARE: Wand of Detect Aberrant, Wand of Detect Demon --> Artifact Paraphenalia, 4000 AD, 250 LE
L24 RARE: Scroll of Mass Protection from Dragons --> Resonant Bag, 1000 AD, 250 LE
L23 RARE No resource needed --> Encanted Coffer, 250 LE
L22 RARE: 3x Bandit Camp Clue --> 1500 AD, 250 LE
L21 RARE: No resources needed --> Thauamturgic Bag, 500 AD, 250 LE
And by the way...
Protect Diamond Shipment = 14 hours
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
It should be more considering the horrible and awful powercreep and how useless PVE farming is