Class Change token

jturtle · February 2015

I was wondering if it would be possible to have a class change token for Paladin. I (and I am certain many others) have been trying to play a paladin since the beginning of the game, using GF and building a kind of Hybrid tank. I know I even kept my tier 1 Knight Captain Armor for the team buff set bonus until forced to change for the black ice resistance so I could do Kessel's retreat, etc. You know, because some of us actually try to create conceptually coherent characters that aren't just min/maxed.

I realize armor gear would probably be lost; but the ability to retain the name, appearance, artifacts, accessories, and companions (also bought with Paladin roleplay in mind) and just switch class and power set, and go get new armors would really be cool. Given the amount of money spent (yes, I am one of those people who spends money and STILL manages to LOSE at PvP, so have no fear!) on the alt, I really don't want to have to delete that (or any other) character and start from scratch.

So, what do you say?

henry404 · February 2015

jturtle wrote: »

So, what do you say?

I think I might know what they are going to say.

ryugasirius · February 2015

Shouldn't and won't happen.

jturtle · February 2015

Why shouldn't it happen? What I said was certainly true... and I am probably not the only one.

ryugasirius · February 2015

Because it's plain wrong. For instance, you learn to play your class as you level. After 60 levels of quests you should at least have an idea as how your class plays. Getting a maxed character of a class you have no clue how to play is a recipe for disaster, especially in group content (I wouldn't be happy to be grouped with such a player/character).

Also, it encourages the "FOTM" behaviour in PVP.

Last but not least (well, probably first), if you just change class you have no need to buy anything else other than a single token. Cryptic/PWE is not happy if you don't buy stuff...! :P

alex1ess · February 2015

It makes no mechanical or financial sense.

I would love one but seeing how i have seen the same request in EVERY game i played so far and the answer is always the same... I simply do not entertain such ideas any more.

ironzerg79 · February 2015

So what happens if you "class change" to the Paladin, then find out you hate the class?

loboguild · February 2015

You class change back for the ZEN token?

ironzerg79 · February 2015

loboguild wrote: »

You class change back for the ZEN token?

And then you have people angry because they have to pay to get THEIR class back, after Cryptic lied to them about how awesome the Paladin was

Trust me, jturtle, wait for the dust to settle on the Paladin before you get so eager to turn in your GF...right now, the feedback on the DPS of the paladin is pretty bad. I honestly don't think they're going to replace Clerics or GFs any time soon.

iamannoyingdevil · February 2015

People asked for class change tokens when both HR and SW were released and nothing ever came of it , Cryptic and PW probably want players to start from fresh with new classes since it nets them a lot more money than if they allow players to just swap classes.

sockmunkey · February 2015

We didn't get one with the Warlock or Ranger. Why should the Paladin be more special?

Besides, getting people to play, and gear up, new classes is how the game is funded. There is zero incentive for Cryptic to implement something to change that.

sockmunkey · February 2015

Support classes should still be able to stand on their own. No one wants a class that is slow or difficult to solo. Especially in a game with so much solo content. Conversly, you won't find a place in a group if you can't bring the DPS as well. Especially when it's competing with roles that can do similar jobs and offer more DPS.

I just don't see the Paladins tanking and healing superior enough to justify the loss in party DPS. And that leaves the Paladin in a bad spot right now.

charononus · February 2015

sockmunkey wrote: »

Support classes should still be able to stand on their own. No one wants a class that is slow or difficult to solo. Especially in a game with so much solo content. Conversly, you won't find a place in a group if you can't bring the DPS as well. Especially when it's competing with roles that can do similar jobs and offer more DPS.

I just don't see the Paladins tanking and healing superior enough to justify the loss in party DPS. And that leaves the Paladin in a bad spot right now.

You've nailed it.

ixalmaris · February 2015

As others have said, Cryptic earns more when you play the normal way (and hopefully for them pay to skip some content).
Besides, what would happen to your equipment? Does it change class too, including legendaries, removing the need to even play the paladin at all or the equipment stays for the old class (what about bound items?) and you start naked and have to wade through low level zones to progressively get the equipment for your level (assuming that when the paladin hits the AH will be empty or overpriced)?

angrysprite · February 2015

I don't think there is now or ever has been a "class change" token.

I wrote-up a long reply about Race Change tokens, mistaking it for Class Change, but if I recall doing that is basically beyond the current tech and it would be a massive coding effort to create such an ability because there are way too many variables that are class-specific in the game. Specifically: way too many stats numbers all over the place that are class-specific.

katamaster81899 · February 2015

No.... just... No... and No.

There are so many reasons, I can't even begin to explain:
- Why bother gearing alts, you can just change you character race?
- Makes no sense in the D&D world, just isn't even possible
- You could easily unlock all of the IWD class artifacts with just two toons
- Gear being slotted as you change
- Class Quests getting messed up
- The whole collections menu would just break and die eternally
- Everyone will switch to the one OP class for PVP, no variety.

The list goes on and on.

Never, ever, ever should this be allowed to happen. Ever. Ever. And one more Ever for extra emphasis. Ever.

zebular · February 2015

I have to agree with Kata. There's just too many reasons why having a class change token would cause more trouble, not only in mechanics and coding, but also in the community and gameplay as well. Leveling is not that hard or very time consuming. It can take less than 20 hours of gameplay to level to 60 from quests alone, not counting additional experience from invocation, leadership, and experience boosting items.

schweifer1982 · February 2015

katamaster81899 wrote: »

No.... just... No... and No.

There are so many reasons, I can't even begin to explain:
- Why bother gearing alts, you can just change you character race?
If you think you have time or money for alts you will have big disapoitment in mod 6.

- Makes no sense in the D&D world, just isn't even possible
Reincarnate spell is present in D&D world.

Some of those points i agree . But not all .

katamaster81899 · February 2015

schweifer1982 wrote: »

If you think you have time or money for alts you will have big disapoitment in mod 6.

I only intend to have BiS gear on one character - My CW. For the rest, I'm fine with them being geared like a casual player. That's not gonna take that much time, I play my alts when I feel like it.

zebular · February 2015

schweifer1982 wrote: »

If you think you have time or money for alts you will have big disapoitment in mod 6.

That is the biggest fallacy I see stated by many, thinking you need to have the best of everything to do content. They've even stated that the content in the game is designed so that you don't need to max out anything or have the "best" of anything. Going that route is a choice, not something that is forced.

My 20 (almost 21) level 60's are doing just great and and very few of them have any artifact equipment at all.

frishter · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

That is the biggest fallacy I see stated by many, thinking you need to have the best of everything to do content. They've even stated that the content in the game is designed so that you don't need to max out anything or have the "best" of anything. Going that route is a choice, not something that is forced.

My 20 (almost 21) level 60's are doing just great and and very few of them have any artifact equipment at all.

I don't think anyone is really saying that you NEED to have it. However games are often designed to get better and to progress. If having alts is going to slow you down or have almost none existent progress, then there's really not much point. Dailies are long and repetitive for mod 4 and 5 so doing it on more than 1 is a pain unless you take is easier and while gearing up to be acceptable may be interesting for some people, the massive wall in progress is enough to put people off which only gets bigger in mod 6.

It comes down to that things should really have been designed more user friendly in a way where it doesn't feel draining. People don't think they should have to have BiS, they think they should be able to achieve it at a steady rate in a way that they can enjoy the journey. It doesn't matter if they don't make it, as long as they feel like they're getting there instead of what feels like a pain and making no progress whatsoever.

charononus · February 2015

frishter wrote: »

I don't think anyone is really saying that you NEED to have it. However games are often designed to get better and to progress. If having alts is going to slow you down or have almost none existent progress, then there's really not much point. Dailies are long and repetitive for mod 4 and 5 so doing it on more than 1 is a pain unless you take is easier and while gearing up to be acceptable may be interesting for some people, the massive wall in progress is enough to put people off which only gets bigger in mod 6.

It comes down to that things should really have been designed more user friendly in a way where it doesn't feel draining. People don't think they should have to have BiS, they think they should be able to achieve it at a steady rate in a way that they can enjoy the journey. It doesn't matter if they don't make it, as long as they feel like they're getting there instead of what feels like a pain and making no progress whatsoever.

You put my feelings down better than I could have. The only thing I'd add in is that especially it shouldn't feel like playing in a group slows your progression like it does now.

frishter · February 2015

charononus wrote: »

You put my feelings down better than I could have. The only thing I'd add in is that especially it shouldn't feel like playing in a group slows your progression like it does now.

That is also true, except maybe tiamat, I've spent more time on the dailies than other content from the same module which I don't really want to. However if I weren't to do it solo, then doing it on multiple characters would spend a lot of time bothering others each time I wanted another character done and it's just easier to do it the lonely way. Even with tiamat it's a pain to play with the ones you want to. Also I'm glad I put your feelings down well, sometimes I feel like I don't put my point down well :P

godlysoul2 · February 2015

I think it would be a fantastic addition. It makes the ridiculous RP progression a little more reasonable by making it for all possible classes rather than a single character and rids the worry of biulding alts by letting you use what you've worked for.

Rather than seeing it as a hindrance, I see the ability to change class as a benefit. I think having it as an option would force the developers to get class balance right if they were to maintain class diversity in the game.

A new game coming out in the near future with strong PvP & PvE components and an array of classes is allowing class switching at will (even when out of combat in PvP matches or during group PvE instance runs). This is a fantastic feature and I see no reason why any game shouldn't implement it if they can get the balancing right.

Unfortunately, as the past has shown, I doubt neverwinter will ever be able to properly achieve class balance anywhere near close enough to allow for this to be a feature unless they implement it and actively work on imbalances which will be blatantly obvious through massive class conformity.

zshikara · February 2015

What I'd rather see than a class change token is to make all companions and artifacts (including artifact weapons and gear) account bound. This way if you want to switch mains you won't lose as much. I do not like the idea of a class change token though. You need to experience that class from level 1.

thesensai · February 2015

zshikara wrote: »

What I'd rather see than a class change token is to make all companions and artifacts (including artifact weapons and gear) account bound. This way if you want to switch mains you won't lose as much. I do not like the idea of a class change token though. You need to experience that class from level 1.

^^this totally. An actual class change would cause too many problems, not to mention completely contradicting their incentive to make new classes, i.e. people rolling brand new toons and spending cash/zen/ad on them. Account bound as many things as possible is a more realistic way to go.

ryoshinette · February 2015

I think that dev's won't do anything, what can reduce potential $$ incomes. Whatever we will figure out, that is sure in my opinion.

henry404 · February 2015

I'm also against the idea of class change tokens. You have to care about your character and you have to care about the decisions you make when creating and levelling that character. Otherwise it's just another identikit toon that can be changed on a whim.
(I'd remove race changes tokens too if I could!)

The OP is clearly a big Paladin fan so surely he'd want the enjoyment of starting one from scratch and shaping him as he levels.

I'm happy with powerful things like artifacts being bound to character. They are artifacts, not cutlery.
You could maybe persuade me that being able to share companions across an account is a good idea though ;p

vinceent1 · February 2015

yeah, but his game should definitely use some account wide experience through because of boons

tarmelfin · February 2015

why not ? if race changeable why class can not.

Class Change token

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