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"Greed Run" seems silly, Why isnt it Need Run.
pulserazor
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
I had to look this concept up after seeing it spammed in zone chat. It makes little sense to me, and I am not sure where this community came up with the idea because of all the mmos I have played, none of them try anything this silly.
If the idea of a Greed Run is to give everyone a chance of getting loot, why not make it a Need Run. Making it a Greed run just invites someone to 'cheat' everyone out of the loot roll, or someone to get upset about it.
With no concessions among pugs, I have observed that if I 'greed' I pretty much get nothing for the whole run. This is unfortunate, but it reflects both Cryptic's failed need/greed system which should lock people out of needing for things they cant use ("needing for alt") - and the fact that the majority of people are selfish. Since this is hardly a revelation to any of us, why do we still spam 'Greed Run'?
Am I missing something?
If the idea of a Greed Run is to give everyone a chance of getting loot, why not make it a Need Run. Making it a Greed run just invites someone to 'cheat' everyone out of the loot roll, or someone to get upset about it.
With no concessions among pugs, I have observed that if I 'greed' I pretty much get nothing for the whole run. This is unfortunate, but it reflects both Cryptic's failed need/greed system which should lock people out of needing for things they cant use ("needing for alt") - and the fact that the majority of people are selfish. Since this is hardly a revelation to any of us, why do we still spam 'Greed Run'?
Am I missing something?
Post edited by pulserazor on
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Ok for nine thousandth five hundred and sixty-seventh time,
It's greed runs because it is the most equal way to distribute boe loot. Others will say that need is just as equal but it is not. The reason being that not all classes have the same value to their gear, and you can have more than one of the same class in a party. This means that need if you can is not equitable.
On the subject of getting geared.
Need also doesn't work as you it is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the rest of the party out of valuable loot for their time and denying them any chance of getting their fair share. This is problematic as other games have ingrained the need run as a good idea of need if it's an upgrade. Neverwinter broke this by deviating from the mmo standard by dropping almost all loot as boe instead of bop. This is why people are told to get their T2's from the chest. The only time this may and I repeat may change, is if you are running with friends, however imo, that isn't a fair thing to do to your friends either.
Now this thread needs to be closed as all it will get from here out is arguments from people wanting to ninja stuff by doing need runs.
That's a little unfair. Unfortunately that sort of action does happen, but the OP may have further questions or other people may want to contribute legitimately to the thread. Unfortunately that doesn't mean much over here.
Maybe I am still missing it, but it seems to me that if every player needed on every single roll, it would have the same result if everyone greeded on every single roll.
If you could clarify the statement "The reason being that not all classes have the same value to their gear", perhaps that explain it. If you could reply with a little less hostility, that would ne nice too.
"Now this thread needs to be closed as all it will get from here out is arguments from people wanting to ninja stuff by doing need runs." - I dont even understand this. The only way someone can ninja is if they needed on something. If everyone needs, they are all in on the loot roll, are they not?
Pardon me if I dont understand the nuances of this game's need/greed system, I understand WoW (class restriction), and STO (need on everything because its all vendor trash) and SWTOR, (Kick anyone who needs for an off class)
If it was ok to need, people would just run the newer released classes and need their classes loot and make a lot more than everyone else who contributes the same amount.
Things like enchants, rings and belts can be needed by everyone so it doesn't really matter what the loot rules are on those as long as everyone does the same.
Now you can close the thread.
Need only works if the system is fair. But when the system isnt fair greed is really the only equalizer.
I can sum up the answer thusly:
It's "greed run" because when an epic item drops if it's a class restricted item, such as a shield, or a Wizard robe, everyone MUST roll "greed". If they all rolled need the item would automatically be won by the class it belongs to. This would defeat the purpose of the dungeon run which was for all players to have equal odds at winning the epic loot.
When is it ever a good idea to have an unequal chance at universal loot? It simply isn't. There should be only two options: Roll and Pass.
If loot is BoE, Roll automagically uses the Greed algorithm, and for BoP loot, Roll automagically uses the Need algorithm.
TADA! It's like frickin' digital magic...
In my opinion, there should only be two options in loot rolls: Roll and Pass
There's no need for special algorithms based on class items, for that salvage money one could make could be just as useful to them as the item itself would be to someone who could wear it. Make it fair to all and just do Roll and Pass options, doing away with the biased and abused Need option.
Better yet, let's do away with individual loot. Make loot drops be layered drops for each person individually, like many MMOs are doing now days.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
That's an excellent suggestion.
No, all a need/greed system requires to work well is for the players to not be jackasses to each other. Unfortunately in a f2p game that will never happen with any consistency.
And the real problem here isn't being able to need on things, it was the change Cryptic made early on to the loot roll system making it so you could only need on an item if it was usable by your character's class. The idea of gating need rolls only to characters who will actually use the item is fairly sound, but limiting it just by class isn't enough to ensure that and adding the ability to salvage epics doomed any implementation.
In the end, if they hadn't messed with the loot roll system at all, we'd be better off since everyone who cared at all about getting something would just roll need and no one could ninja without it being the party's own fault for being too trusting.
Okay, Panic.
Very true. Just yesterday I thought I found a great, trustworthy pug (yeah right, I know)for PK until our 2nd greed run when a Greater Mark of Potency dropped. Since it was a Greed run I hit Greed. All 4 pugs hit Need. I was then referred to as an "*** for not needing" and "not waiting to see what everyone else chose first." As I am a bit new to the game, I was unaware you could do this. If 5 people "wait to see what everyone else does," nothing would happen would it?
I like this very much, because the problem goes beyond need and greed. Even in a greed run, I allow guys to need on their BoP items, because the value of the item for me is salvage pennys but for them it means completing a collection or an upgrade.
Unfortunately people don't get that and start vote-kicking and ****. I personally offer to buy out altars worth of 10k in such a case. Smart people get and accept what I'm doing, the ignorant ones start *****ing or ignore me and walk away with nothing.
I wouldn't blame them though, because just like the PVP score the system does not naturally guide the players. All group drops should be BoE and Roll/Pass only and completely separated from that there should be a chance to drop progression/personal/collection loot that's BoP.
And such a system is possible, because they use it in CtA's already.
But what he suggested is that all things drop for you and just you. The others don't even see your drops. No fighting over drops ever happens. So i dont understand your idea.
The point is, you greed on BoE class restricted stuff and need on everything else even in a "greed" run. That agreement has developed over time and people, me included, assume that this is well known. But as shown in your example, it's not and leads to complications.
I'm with this.
The problem is you get people like me that have done a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of other MMO's where you need roll your gear and greed everything else. I understand the reasoning but it sure is counter intuitive to all the other games out there.
How does one 'learn the ropes' so to speak? There has to be a better way than being called names and getting rage vote kicked a few times...I mean, it can do the job but its not a very pleasant way to learn or play a game... I'm kinda new and don't have many friends/ guildies yet so I am forced to pug/LFG. It makes me wonder how many have up and quit the game over this flawed system...
Join the legit channel in my signature. You won't regret it and the above issues will largely go away.
It would get rid of those annoying pop-ups too.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I have also wondered about this, more importantly has Cryptic ever wondered about this ? Its an international server, how many players have they lost because of this imposed unwritten rule that not anyone wants adhere to and also goes against the mechanics that the game has provided.
I've also been given dirty looks from waiters who screwed up my meal when I didn't leave a tip, or fast food folks who didn't like the fact that I brought my burger back to the counter because a "double" cheeseburger typically has 2 burgers on it and not one.
Unwritten rules exist everywhere. If you join a random group, ask what the loot rules are. Most people will tell you. If you don't want to ask or dont get an answer, use Pack mentality (wait for them to roll then you roll what they rolled).
Its harsh, sure. Could they make it better? Probably. Will they? Not if there isn't any money in it.
A "Round Robin Run" should distribute random gear in turn, without having to roll. Or am I missing something? I'm usually only on for a few minutes at a time, so I am a 99.9% solo player...
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if you still in need for gear dont go greed run ,because its silly
you go on greed run and still needing of gear and a item drop for your class(GF),you role greed.and a CW won your shield that you realy need ,now you have to go do it again till you get lucky and win the roll(rnggod knows how many times it will take)
thats why greed run is silly for lower lvls to do
and when you queue you should play by the game rules,you can need, pass or greed your choice
dont queue and force ppl to greed,thats why there is a lfg
And about the ninja thing ,how can somebody be a ninja taking some thing for his/her class
I think you are the ninja wanting someting that aint for you and that goes in real life too(we call them thief)
If I agree on a only greed run and I need than you can call me a ninja,but if I queue for and need ,than you are wrong
Dont go greed run if you still need gear