Absolutely. That's why I'm rooting for another req next to simple GS. I said a campaign completion maybe, completing dungeons (having a certain achievement or whatever) would serve the same purpose.
I simply don't get it. They lifted the reqs in every Mod only to completely derail the progression in Mod 5. I guess because Tyranny of Dragons was a major content update for D&D and WotC, there might have been sort of an agreement to make Tiamat a widespread experience, but in terms of this game it is a complete brainfart.
I don't want players to spend the exact amount of time I have been to get here, but currently they can skip everything and it leads to plethora problems...
Well I think a lot of players agreed with you just looking at the population in Mod 4&5 and Mod 3/previous mods.
I think Tiamat, well of dragons and RNG systems pissed off a lot of players to the point of indifference. Let's hope module 6 isn't more of the same.
I don't think I'm gonna stay till mod 6 if it continues like this.
You really aren't alone. Tons and tons of players quit because of how awful Modules 4&5 were in terms of overpowered classes and lack of endgame.
The Tiamat raid was supposed to be the ONLY thing (since we didn't get tier 3 dungeons or new PVP maps/modes) and that flopped bigtime due to poor farmability and the inability to queue with your friends.
I think we can say that Module 6 is the last make/break for a lot of the veteran players in this game.
It was. At least that's what WotC says and I've seen similar statements on these forums as well. And that's ok. There's plenty of dragons to fight starting at lvl26 and there's a reasonable side story throughout those HE dragons on different maps. But that should have enticed people to work towards Tiamat instead of giving it away for free. Even storywise it doesn't make any sense to fight a dragon goddess before being able to face opponents like Malabog or Valindra. How do you expect to beat a god if you can't beat a fey monster or a lich?
It really seems they broke progression so that anybody could just play the newest content of WotC and fight Tiamat in the end. That's probably good for the franchise but a neckbreaker for this game. I agree though they should have tried to use Tiamat to get people engaged a little bit more. You can do WoD but if you wanna see the Dragon Queen, you need to invest little bit into the game.
Reading the lengthy post from the audio designer in the Foundry section I'd also say they made the decision according to their evaluations. Could be that making Tiamat a truly endgame experience wouldn't have netted the same return as making it this casual zergfest.
Either way, I don't like the result.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited January 2015
in that context i am just wondering what about will be module 6. Tiamat has only 30 instances nowadays, its not worth make another fancy heroic encounter. pvp has few players, so its not worth new pvp content. what we will play?
I fully agree with this. Don't let the low GS players kill the experience for the rest of us. At the very least, stick to the standard of every other one of your examples and put up a requirement. Why is it you need a GS for IWD but not for Tiamat.... Such a waste of good potential.
I fully agree with this. Don't let the low GS players kill the experience for the rest of us. At the very least, stick to the standard of every other one of your examples and put up a requirement. Why is it you need a GS for IWD but not for Tiamat.... Such a waste of good potential.
There is a GS req for tiamat. There just isn't a boon req. The idea that there is no GS req is false. It may be low but it is there.
You need 10K to reach the door to Tiamat so, yes, it has a GS requirement.
For me it ain't broke and I love the democracy of it. All you GS elitists are too used to excluding others from parts of the game, kicking anyone that doesn't meet your particular view of "the requirements". In Tiamat, everyone may not be equal but everyone has an equal right to try the encounter. I like that.
It also amuses me when folk talk about all those pugs as if they are an inferior alien species, not worthy to play the game.
Here's the news: in Tiamat WE ARE ALL PUGS.
It's fine, really it is. The encounter really is not that difficult.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited January 2015
who do you think is gs elitist?
someone who write to lfg that need high gs for T2 dungeon? yes
someone who want endgame raid played by experienced players and character? not at my view
i bet many veterans here on the forums are not lfg elitists who care about their income but care about game at all ....
For me it ain't broke and I love the democracy of it. All you GS elitists are too used to excluding others from parts of the game, kicking anyone that doesn't meet your particular view of "the requirements". In Tiamat, everyone may not be equal but everyone has an equal right to try the encounter. I like that.
I disagree with equality. I prefer equity. Not every player contributes similarly. Not every player invests the same amount of resources into their toon. Not all players are the same and I prefer the saying that you reap what you sow in this instance.
Everyone does have an "equal" right to access the other dungeons.
A full 10-12k instance CAN do Tiamat when it comes to raw DPS and we all know it.
Why do you purposely perpetuate a complete lie? NO, we don't all know it. I have yet to see a single, let alone multiple for real proof, demonstration of 25 random 10K players completing Tiamat with a victory. Until there is real proof, it is an outright lie to state it can be done, and it is a further outright lie tos state "ALL" of us know it it can be done by such a group." There's not even been proof of concept for 25 random 12K players to complete Tiamat. So, 1) Please stop spreading lies, 2) learn the meaning of the word, "ALL" (in the context of Neverwinter, it would mean every single player in the game or in the very least every single player who has done Tiamat -- anything less doesn't mean "ALL"), and 3) if you strongly believe what you write, then be able to actually prove it.
i think its cool 10k gs can enter, they are most likely new and can see the newest end game content's difficulty level. after a loss or maybe even a win, they can reflect on their experience on the new endgame raid and b like " wooah this game has giant 5 headed dragon monsters to fight" or something like that lol, win or lose it wud b a cool experience for sum1 who just got to 10k gs and wants to try the new raid. this game needed hard content for newer peeps to aspire to accomplish.
*but yes 10k gs is a little too low to be doing something like tiamat though imo.
If the minimum gear score to fight Tiamat is 10k, does that mean Cryptic has proven that Tiamat can be defeated in the limited time with an all 10k gear score party? If not, then why would Cryptic allow this to happen knowing there is no way to defeat Tiamat? If Cryptic wants allow lower gear score parties to defeat Tiamat then maybe they should scale down how hard it is to defeat her and the loot too based on the average gear score of the party.
Update: Maybe they can also keep the same loot but make it more harder to get it percentage-wise for lower gear score parties.
My argument against it is that I think if you got 25 of the best players that have ever played this game and gave them 10kgs toons, if they played perfectly they could win 1 tiamat out of 10. That's where I think min requirements for something should be set.
I want content that requires 25 of the best players at 18-19k gs+ and only winning 1 of 10. With gs entry requirements ofc. We need content that actually matches our stats, so many players are leaving because there is nothing entertaining or challenging to do.
Comments
Well I think a lot of players agreed with you just looking at the population in Mod 4&5 and Mod 3/previous mods.
I think Tiamat, well of dragons and RNG systems pissed off a lot of players to the point of indifference. Let's hope module 6 isn't more of the same.
You really aren't alone. Tons and tons of players quit because of how awful Modules 4&5 were in terms of overpowered classes and lack of endgame.
The Tiamat raid was supposed to be the ONLY thing (since we didn't get tier 3 dungeons or new PVP maps/modes) and that flopped bigtime due to poor farmability and the inability to queue with your friends.
I think we can say that Module 6 is the last make/break for a lot of the veteran players in this game.
It really seems they broke progression so that anybody could just play the newest content of WotC and fight Tiamat in the end. That's probably good for the franchise but a neckbreaker for this game. I agree though they should have tried to use Tiamat to get people engaged a little bit more. You can do WoD but if you wanna see the Dragon Queen, you need to invest little bit into the game.
Reading the lengthy post from the audio designer in the Foundry section I'd also say they made the decision according to their evaluations. Could be that making Tiamat a truly endgame experience wouldn't have netted the same return as making it this casual zergfest.
Either way, I don't like the result.
Punish the losers and you will produce winners.
Reward the losers and you will produce losers.
Punish the winners and you will produce losers.
With the above in mind we can form a strong argument for WoD being a system of rewards for losers and a system of punishments for winners.
The low GS combined with the loser reward for failing Tiamat just opens the door for bots to come in and stand around and ruin things.
There is a GS req for tiamat. There just isn't a boon req. The idea that there is no GS req is false. It may be low but it is there.
For me it ain't broke and I love the democracy of it. All you GS elitists are too used to excluding others from parts of the game, kicking anyone that doesn't meet your particular view of "the requirements". In Tiamat, everyone may not be equal but everyone has an equal right to try the encounter. I like that.
It also amuses me when folk talk about all those pugs as if they are an inferior alien species, not worthy to play the game.
Here's the news: in Tiamat WE ARE ALL PUGS.
It's fine, really it is. The encounter really is not that difficult.
someone who write to lfg that need high gs for T2 dungeon? yes
someone who want endgame raid played by experienced players and character? not at my view
i bet many veterans here on the forums are not lfg elitists who care about their income but care about game at all ....
I disagree with equality. I prefer equity. Not every player contributes similarly. Not every player invests the same amount of resources into their toon. Not all players are the same and I prefer the saying that you reap what you sow in this instance.
Everyone does have an "equal" right to access the other dungeons.
Why do you purposely perpetuate a complete lie? NO, we don't all know it. I have yet to see a single, let alone multiple for real proof, demonstration of 25 random 10K players completing Tiamat with a victory. Until there is real proof, it is an outright lie to state it can be done, and it is a further outright lie tos state "ALL" of us know it it can be done by such a group." There's not even been proof of concept for 25 random 12K players to complete Tiamat. So, 1) Please stop spreading lies, 2) learn the meaning of the word, "ALL" (in the context of Neverwinter, it would mean every single player in the game or in the very least every single player who has done Tiamat -- anything less doesn't mean "ALL"), and 3) if you strongly believe what you write, then be able to actually prove it.
*but yes 10k gs is a little too low to be doing something like tiamat though imo.
Update: Maybe they can also keep the same loot but make it more harder to get it percentage-wise for lower gear score parties.
No because if they did prove it, it would be verifiable by third parties; and, they would have published their results to show transparency.
I want content that requires 25 of the best players at 18-19k gs+ and only winning 1 of 10. With gs entry requirements ofc. We need content that actually matches our stats, so many players are leaving because there is nothing entertaining or challenging to do.
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