Raising your gearscore passed 10k is very difficult in the sense that it's time consuming to extremes.
Interesting, because my mule that I don't play with managed to get 11k with a lot of blue gear and rank 4+5s as a cw.
Having a gs requirement the same as at least last modules content takes no effort to do. It's just insulting to be forced away from friends and guildies only to be put with those who can't be bothered investing in their character. People can argue however they want, it doesn't change that 10-12k are entering out of lazyness and want to skip ALL existing content post 60. The fact is, most of these aren't experts, the ones who know what they're doing actually manage to break that low gs pretty easily.
Without a set bonus, you're not going to contribute well
Without power, you're not going to contribute well
With low hp and defence, you're not going to contribute well
With (in most cases) little post 60 experience, you're not going to contribute well
As for guides there's some around. There's not really much to say when people zerg. It's about using gems (green and blue for the most part), dps and debuffs. For lower dps, don't lower the heads to less than 10% hp unless it's the last round otherwise they regen more hp. It's pretty hard not to reach the 3 rounds, and fairly hard to get 4 in and so if you're a coordinated team good enough to get 4 in, you should be good enough to do it in 3. There's not really much to write about otherwise.
Also I'd say eLOL is easier. It's not easy to fail that, but there are plenty failing tiamat who don't have coordinated entry times. The fact that the raid has minimal entry requirements is a complete joke that goes against what a raid should be and why people wanted a raid in the first place. They wanted high end content that they could do with their guild and something that was challenging. Not a pug fest.
you need 10,500 to travel well of dragons but in tiamat there are 10,2k people i dont understand are they getting naked in tiamat or trolling us
you only need 10,000 to go to Well. 10.5k is IWD.
well and the HE's there are significantly easier than IWD and the HE's there, for the record. 10k is fine for WoD, and fine for tiamat as well.
IWD has all the extra black ice damage and by the time you can negate it with BI gear you are no longer anywhere close to 10k gs. tbh with the way this game handles gs reqs vs player power, IWD should be 12-13k gs. the only reason it's so low i believe is because of the class artifact quests there, and at the time having geared and 3rd booned a character just to get the artifact it puts you at about 10.5k. but to actually handle the solo content there as a new player, 12k gs is a better minimum.
50% fail rate is actually quite low from what I've seen and Dragon Eggs only go to top scorers, the rest gets 500 pts rp item (unbound, so I suppose sooner or later bots will flock there) and random enchantment shard, not much of an incentive to stay if it fails, especially as rewards might bug at the end too.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The fact that the raid has minimal entry requirements is a complete joke that goes against what a raid should be and why people wanted a raid in the first place. They wanted high end content that they could do with their guild and something that was challenging. Not a pug fest.
This is the crux of the issue.
players wanted a raid, players expected a raid. Raid's aren't something cryptic does.
They make super casual games for casual players. Their character creators and customization options are typically the highlight of their games. Balancing classes? tuning content? raids? this isn't something they do or do well.
They called it a raid to keep players like us happy but it was never actually meant to be what an MMO player thinks of as a Raid. This something people need to understand. You say you wanted to play with your guild/friends, you say you wanted a challenge. You can only have 1 of those things. If this were a raid and we could queue for it in a party we'd all 1 round tiamat in 5mins every time and get 3-4 runs in in the 20 minutes allotted. You would see how ridiculously easy Tiamat is and no one would bat an eye at the 10k gs req. We'd have 2 round tiamat with nothing but our 10k alts and do time challenges or GFs would do kite challenges to defeat tiamat without killing a single devil, just to make things interesting.
Tiamat is not a raid boss. Tiamat is an HE like any other HE we have in the game. It's dressed up in the illusion of a raid merely for our benefit.
Tiamat is not the end game boss. Tiamat is not the most difficult challenge in the game. Tiamat is not hard. The required GS for Tiamat is what is needs to be to give the encounter the illusion of challenge, and allow new players to catch up with older ones.
Every module they have included paths for new players to catch up without having to invest in the content before it to the extent that older players have. This traditionally is a t1/t2 freebie set for doing the dailies and a way to acquire seals for gear without having to do the original dungeons. This has progressively gotten easier. It started with buying Unicorn seals with bounty items, then drake seals, then in mod 4 you could just do the dailies and buy drake seal gear directly. All of these things provide a baseline that a new player can achieve without having invested the time that older players have. Of course to fully "catch up" you want to get all the boons so you need to do all the dailies from previous zones, but there are zen store/lockbox items/prayer boxes that speed up that process to catch players up with the vets.
Mod 5 completed this progressive cycle by having the t1/t2 "BIS" gear that players actually desire all coming from a single zone and the HE, in addition it gives out all the artifact equipment from previous mod basically for free, giving all the new players all the gear they need rather quickly, as the game model has changed to an RP grind rather than a gear grind and the massive gs bloat has somewhat invalidated the previous grind which was enchants. Before R7s were minimum for "geared" now r5s are enough, invest all your drops for RP instead of ranking up enchants.
But that means tiamat has obsoleted all previous content in the game, why would they do that?
My theory is simple. They know they can make a zone and perhaps a dungeon for a mod. Tiamat is a test to see if they can get away having just 1 zone and 1 dungeon being the only content, and see if they lose players with such limited real content available. It's a test to see if they can get away with raising the level cap and maintain players.
well and the HE's there are significantly easier than IWD and the HE's there, for the record. 10k is fine for WoD, and fine for tiamat as well.
IWD has all the extra black ice damage and by the time you can negate it with BI gear you are no longer anywhere close to 10k gs. tbh with the way this game handles gs reqs vs player power, IWD should be 12-13k gs. the only reason it's so low i believe is because of the class artifact quests there, and at the time having geared and 3rd booned a character just to get the artifact it puts you at about 10.5k. but to actually handle the solo content there as a new player, 12k gs is a better minimum.
Going into IWD as a 10.5 alt was the most fun I've had in this game while not in a group. It was perfect. There was a real danger of getting my face smashed in by the mobs. IWD should absolutely not be 12-13kgs.
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mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited January 2015
I have come to the conclusion that there was a very good reason why such low gear scores are allowed in Well Of Dragons and Tiamat: It creates an incentive for newer players to purchase Zen and hence Astral Diamonds in order to gear up in order to make it easier for them.
this what should be done ,with every mod the GS get higher
IWD has it so should WOD
and in Tiamat sometimes I get 2 shot by mobs and I am 19+ what do you think will happend to a 10 and 11
when there is low gs in tiamat the ground look like grass ,totally green.I was there
10 in tiamat is death weight
If they want low gs in tiamat ,they should give us more time to kill it and lower the mob damage and def.
and it aint going to happend
I have come to the conclusion that there was a very good reason why such low gear scores are allowed in Well Of Dragons and Tiamat: It creates an incentive for newer players to purchase Zen and hence Astral Diamonds in order to gear up in order to make it easier for them.
I think this incentive, if intended, isn't working at all since people go Tiamat with low gs for a chance to get t2 gear without spending any AD on it. If they are so money pinching at current t2 prices in AH with virtual currency, I can't imagine they would feel inclined to spend real life money on gearing up.
My argument against it is that I think if you got 25 of the best players that have ever played this game and gave them 10kgs toons, if they played perfectly they could win 1 tiamat out of 10. That's where I think min requirements for something should be set.
If you had 25 of the best players, even with a 12K GS (and no enchants - it's much cheaper and easier to get to 13K than to get enchants after all) you will not succeed. Tiamat is not a skill check, it's a dps check and players 12K or lower no matter how good they are, without enchants, just won't have the dps to pull it off.
Even if you disagree, you just can't get 25 predefined people into the same instance, so you will never get 25 of the best players into the same instance anyway.
I'm sure someone has already suggested this but I'm going to remunerate it once more. There needs to be a gear score requirement to enter the temple of Tiamat, just like there's a gear score requirement of 13k for eLoL. Why can't the gear score requirement for Tiamat be 13k? I believe eLoL is EASIER than Tiamat. So come on, be rational here.
Every time I enter Tiamat I check peoples gear to see if it's going to fail or win. As of late I've seen TONS and TONS of players joining it with 10k gs or 11k gs. You do realize that you're just LOSING the whole thing for the rest of us die-hard players who play to win?
Gear score requirement for Tiamat should be NO LESS than 13k. Players need to be in full T2 gear with 3 artifacts and good runes, it's not hard to raise your gear score, just have to do your dailies and work at it. Stop ruining Tiamat for the rest of us.
total nonsense. your characters kGs do not represent your game skills.
Your suggest could be apply if developers decide to create epic tiamat insntat dungeon or something.
Do not focus game to top end gear players only.
Also team work is key for victory not a gear score.
For example when minions spawn, DC/CW use lets say dirty method, and push monsters from edge and monsters are instant kill. So even 9 kGs CW can do same stuffs. . Next thing, less panic, lot of good geared players panic like girls, for them wining is like matter of life and death.. Good that tiamat is hard. I prefer hard win, instead easy farming there. Because if you start easy farming, then you lose part of game, there will be no challenge left.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
This is so useless because players just don't get that the discussion is not one-dimensional about GS but rather the whole concept of low GS, challenge, mechanics, availability and teamplay is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as hell.
Can 10k GS players contribute to the fight? Of course, but they shouldn't be able to enter the fight regardless.
Just image how awful and chaotic it would be if you couldn't premade ANY content. Nobody wants that, but it's totally fine to be forced into a 10k PUG for the actual capstone content? Yeah......
total nonsense. your characters kGs do not represent your game skills.
Your suggest could be apply if developers decide to create epic tiamat insntat dungeon or something.
Do not focus game to top end gear players only.
Lets not forget that it's pretty easy to get 13-14K GS. Anyone lower than that is almost certainly NOT good at playing their class. Likewise there are some 19K GS players that suck. There are never any guarantees, but if I were to bet on things, I'd be more willing to bet the 19K knows how to play and will contribute more than the 10k. Or rather I would bet the 10K would contribute close to nothing.
Can 10k GS players contribute to the fight? Of course, but they shouldn't be able to enter the fight regardless.
well, but why not? Everyone should have fun and engage the story, we;ve been asking them to drop the gated content for ages and when they did it, we complain again... Let everyone get their templar, the pvp gaps are so huge i dont mind new players having access to some good, easy gear and is not like those artifacts can be lvled so easily...
What is not good is that they made old content useless... they should find a solution for that cause truly is a pity to lose it.
Lets not forget that it's pretty easy to get 13-14K GS. Anyone lower than that is almost certainly NOT good at playing their class. Likewise there are some 19K GS players that suck. There are never any guarantees, but if I were to bet on things, I'd be more willing to bet the 19K knows how to play and will contribute more than the 10k. Or rather I would bet the 10K would contribute close to nothing.
That's the point. The chance that a 19k GS char features a good player is much greater than a 10k char featuring someone with the same skill. It's probability and playing the odds, 10k gets sacked every time. Rightfully sacked.
And it's so easy to even get to 15-16k, I don't get why lowbies wanna talk their way into the fight. Use a week or two and gear up ffs, it's not hard.
well, but why not? Everyone should have fun and engage the story, we;ve been asking them to drop the gated content for ages and when they did it we complain again... Let everyone get their templar, the pvp gaps are so huge i mind new players having access to some good, easy gear and is not like those artifacts can be lvled so easily...
What is not good is that they made old content useless... they should find a solution for that cause truly is a pity to lose it.
We've been asking them to drop requirements? When and where? The community always wanted better PVP and more challenging PVE content, not some zergfest HE with 10k reqs when chars peaked at 20k GS even before Tiamat. I also don't agree everyone should instantly have access to Tiamat. Let them finish another campaign first before they see Artifact and Templar gear.
It's like you said, leveling takes ages and it actually makes sense progression-wise to max out your char without Artifact gear and then go for it, because it's not necessarily better than other stuff until purple or so.
And old content is so useless right now in part because so many players can do Tiamat and get those T1/T2s. It's not the whole story though and I agree past content needs major tweaking.
That's the point. The chance that a 19k GS char features a good player is much greater than a 10k char featuring someone with the same skill. It's probability and playing the odds, 10k gets sacked every time. Rightfully sacked.
And it's so easy to even get to 15-16k, I don't get why lowbies wanna talk their way into the fight. Use a week or two and gear up ffs, it's not hard.
It is not always "easy" to get 15k GS in every class. It can be easy if you have AD to spend on gear, R7+ enchants, and those "zone completion" books for Shar and DR. And some classes generally have lower GS than others.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
It is not always "easy" to get 15k GS in every class. It can be easy if you have AD to spend on gear, R7+ enchants, and those "zone completion" books for Shar and DR. And some classes generally have lower GS than others.
No, I did the test some days ago and geared up from 0 to 12k GS with 5$ worth of ZEN/ADs and R4s. That's easy in my book. Add two weeks of campaign progression and you could be able to land at 15k. You pretty much just need to grind VT for your weapon set and get the first boons in every campaign, which is easy as hell.
Tiamat is not hard and that is the issue, tiamat merely requires coordination and a minimum Skill level to complete. The fact it is open to everyone means that that minimum skill level is not reached. Now the two choices here are add a minimum GS or to allow people to have pre-made 25 man parties which would of course basically do the same thing, unless you know someone and they are willing to cover for you you will not get in. I prefer the second option because I like when people accuse me of being elitist, when all they really want is for someone to make it easy for them.
Amusing.
every player have own game style.. Some players tend to rush in front lines, while other one goes sneaky way. Other like stay in grope while some prefer go solo.. But TIAMAT raid require team work. Not gear score..
Problem is of selfish players. All try get more score and thats it. For example I have seen how GWF lured monsters from 2 clerics and fight solo... He die, then gang of monsters kill other ones.. And CW's instead using CC daily use dps daily. All in order get more points. Not for wining. Also I have seen how 17 kGS players simply sit and watch how other players die, and he fight with monsters 1 vs 1..... Come one, even with my non uber geared warlock I handle group monsters, even SW have no mass CC skills.. So nop, its not the problem of kGS, is matter of players ..
And yesterday I have been in Tiamat raid, it was funny, party of mid kGs player defended clerics far better than some random top geared players.. Party fighted one head while all remaining chaos zerg rushed to hit green head.
So by adding kGS limitation it will not make players smarter.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
No, I did the test some days ago and geared up from 0 to 12k GS with 5$ worth of ZEN/ADs and R4s. That's easy in my book. Add two weeks of campaign progression and you could be able to land at 15k. You pretty much just need to grind VT for your weapon set and get the first boons in every campaign, which is easy as hell.
I still think this will not work for all classes. GF and GWF have a much easier time getting higher GS than TR and some other classes.
My TR which I have had since Beta took a while to hit 16k GS.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
But TIAMAT raid require team work. Not gear score..
Yeah... not really. There's no challenge really, it's down to defending the clerics which I could solo 1 by myself, and activating your gems. It's not hard, but of course with pugs some may lack ability. However half of the classes can dodge red, white is avoidable and black is an annoying debuff, but not vital. That leaves green and blue gems as needed which is pretty hard to mess up with 25 players. Apart from that it's a full on dps race and making sure not to get heads less than 10% until the kill phase. There's no dodging involved, little timing. Just dps (which does require you to know about debuffs and decent powers and feats), also ideally a freaking set bonus of some kind.
This should not be up for debate. It's bad enough to pug without having pugs that don't even contribute dps or debuffs. A GS requirement is the standard restriction they've always used and is better than nothing. Looking forward to the new class which will probably make all of the defenders regret their decision. So many 10k gs druids or whatever to ruin the raids.
Yeah... not really. There's no challenge really, it's down to defending the clerics which I could solo 1 by myself, and activating your gems. It's not hard, but of course with pugs some may lack ability. However half of the classes can dodge red, white is avoidable and black is an annoying debuff, but not vital. That leaves green and blue gems as needed which is pretty hard to mess up with 25 players. Apart from that it's a full on dps race and making sure not to get heads less than 10% until the kill phase. There's no dodging involved, little timing. Just dps (which does require you to know about debuffs and decent powers and feats), also ideally a freaking set bonus of some kind.
This should not be up for debate. It's bad enough to pug without having pugs that don't even contribute dps or debuffs. A GS requirement is the standard restriction they've always used and is better than nothing. Looking forward to the new class which will probably make all of the defenders regret their decision. So many 10k gs druids or whatever to ruin the raids.
FYI red isn't that bad even on non-dodging classes. On my SW I can't dodge the breath but I can toss WB and DT for full stacks of the defense buff. With that in effect the breath just kind of tickles. GWF could save unstoppable for it, and the GF could block.
FYI red isn't that bad even on non-dodging classes. On my SW I can't dodge the breath but I can toss WB and DT for full stacks of the defense buff. With that in effect the breath just kind of tickles. GWF could save unstoppable for it, and the GF could block.
I noticed that on my SW, but wasn't sure if it was due to my dc artifact or some other not intended feature as it does seem kind of broken. GWF, I wouldn't know, mines pretty much abandoned (although pretty much all but my CW are really), and GF block is true. I'm unsure how effective the HR dodges are, I guess they're still alright. It's kind of funny being capable to dodge something while not actually avoiding it.
I still think this will not work for all classes. GF and GWF have a much easier time getting higher GS than TR and some other classes.
My TR which I have had since Beta took a while to hit 16k GS.
Here's 150k AD spent tops on a TR. You can go 2x2 instead of a full T2 set and get to 12k (Toughness will add another ~500 GS, the char is unfeated) without any boons or artifacts. Even if it would take a while to get to 15k... what's the deal? Play the game a little before you get the chance at the best loot available.
It is not always "easy" to get 15k GS in every class. It can be easy if you have AD to spend on gear, R7+ enchants, and those "zone completion" books for Shar and DR. And some classes generally have lower GS than others.
This is an MMO. It shouldn't be too easy to get 15k GS. With that said, I think the commitment to get to 13-15k GS is pretty reasonable for this game. Beyond the goal of 15k GS, I have already stated that this game's endgame PVE farming has some serious problems.
Absolutely. That's why I'm rooting for another req next to simple GS. I said a campaign completion maybe, completing dungeons (having a certain achievement or whatever) would serve the same purpose.
I simply don't get it. They lifted the reqs in every Mod only to completely derail the progression in Mod 5. I guess because Tyranny of Dragons was a major content update for D&D and WotC, there might have been sort of an agreement to make Tiamat a widespread experience, but in terms of this game it is a complete brainfart.
I don't want players to spend the exact amount of time I have been to get here, but currently they can skip everything and it leads to plethora problems...
Absolutely. That's why I'm rooting for another req next to simple GS. I said a campaign completion maybe, completing dungeons (having a certain achievement or whatever) would serve the same purpose.
I simply don't get it. They lifted the reqs in every Mod only to completely derail the progression in Mod 5. I guess because Tyranny of Dragons was a major content update for D&D and WotC, there might have been sort of an agreement to make Tiamat a widespread experience, but in terms of this game it is a complete brainfart.
I don't want players to spend the exact amount of time I have been to get here, but currently they can skip everything and it leads to plethora problems...
Well I think a lot of players agreed with you just looking at the population in Mod 4&5 and Mod 3/previous mods.
I think Tiamat, well of dragons and RNG systems pissed off a lot of players to the point of indifference. Let's hope module 6 isn't more of the same.
I don't think I'm gonna stay till mod 6 if it continues like this.
You really aren't alone. Tons and tons of players quit because of how awful Modules 4&5 were in terms of overpowered classes and lack of endgame.
The Tiamat raid was supposed to be the ONLY thing (since we didn't get tier 3 dungeons or new PVP maps/modes) and that flopped bigtime due to poor farmability and the inability to queue with your friends.
I think we can say that Module 6 is the last make/break for a lot of the veteran players in this game.
Comments
Well I was late for my favourite zerg time which is at least 70% win, so I tried my luck with other times to kill time.
Interesting, because my mule that I don't play with managed to get 11k with a lot of blue gear and rank 4+5s as a cw.
Having a gs requirement the same as at least last modules content takes no effort to do. It's just insulting to be forced away from friends and guildies only to be put with those who can't be bothered investing in their character. People can argue however they want, it doesn't change that 10-12k are entering out of lazyness and want to skip ALL existing content post 60. The fact is, most of these aren't experts, the ones who know what they're doing actually manage to break that low gs pretty easily.
Without a set bonus, you're not going to contribute well
Without power, you're not going to contribute well
With low hp and defence, you're not going to contribute well
With (in most cases) little post 60 experience, you're not going to contribute well
As for guides there's some around. There's not really much to say when people zerg. It's about using gems (green and blue for the most part), dps and debuffs. For lower dps, don't lower the heads to less than 10% hp unless it's the last round otherwise they regen more hp. It's pretty hard not to reach the 3 rounds, and fairly hard to get 4 in and so if you're a coordinated team good enough to get 4 in, you should be good enough to do it in 3. There's not really much to write about otherwise.
Also I'd say eLOL is easier. It's not easy to fail that, but there are plenty failing tiamat who don't have coordinated entry times. The fact that the raid has minimal entry requirements is a complete joke that goes against what a raid should be and why people wanted a raid in the first place. They wanted high end content that they could do with their guild and something that was challenging. Not a pug fest.
you only need 10,000 to go to Well. 10.5k is IWD.
well and the HE's there are significantly easier than IWD and the HE's there, for the record. 10k is fine for WoD, and fine for tiamat as well.
IWD has all the extra black ice damage and by the time you can negate it with BI gear you are no longer anywhere close to 10k gs. tbh with the way this game handles gs reqs vs player power, IWD should be 12-13k gs. the only reason it's so low i believe is because of the class artifact quests there, and at the time having geared and 3rd booned a character just to get the artifact it puts you at about 10.5k. but to actually handle the solo content there as a new player, 12k gs is a better minimum.
This is the crux of the issue.
players wanted a raid, players expected a raid. Raid's aren't something cryptic does.
They make super casual games for casual players. Their character creators and customization options are typically the highlight of their games. Balancing classes? tuning content? raids? this isn't something they do or do well.
They called it a raid to keep players like us happy but it was never actually meant to be what an MMO player thinks of as a Raid. This something people need to understand. You say you wanted to play with your guild/friends, you say you wanted a challenge. You can only have 1 of those things. If this were a raid and we could queue for it in a party we'd all 1 round tiamat in 5mins every time and get 3-4 runs in in the 20 minutes allotted. You would see how ridiculously easy Tiamat is and no one would bat an eye at the 10k gs req. We'd have 2 round tiamat with nothing but our 10k alts and do time challenges or GFs would do kite challenges to defeat tiamat without killing a single devil, just to make things interesting.
Tiamat is not a raid boss. Tiamat is an HE like any other HE we have in the game. It's dressed up in the illusion of a raid merely for our benefit.
Tiamat is not the end game boss. Tiamat is not the most difficult challenge in the game. Tiamat is not hard. The required GS for Tiamat is what is needs to be to give the encounter the illusion of challenge, and allow new players to catch up with older ones.
Every module they have included paths for new players to catch up without having to invest in the content before it to the extent that older players have. This traditionally is a t1/t2 freebie set for doing the dailies and a way to acquire seals for gear without having to do the original dungeons. This has progressively gotten easier. It started with buying Unicorn seals with bounty items, then drake seals, then in mod 4 you could just do the dailies and buy drake seal gear directly. All of these things provide a baseline that a new player can achieve without having invested the time that older players have. Of course to fully "catch up" you want to get all the boons so you need to do all the dailies from previous zones, but there are zen store/lockbox items/prayer boxes that speed up that process to catch players up with the vets.
Mod 5 completed this progressive cycle by having the t1/t2 "BIS" gear that players actually desire all coming from a single zone and the HE, in addition it gives out all the artifact equipment from previous mod basically for free, giving all the new players all the gear they need rather quickly, as the game model has changed to an RP grind rather than a gear grind and the massive gs bloat has somewhat invalidated the previous grind which was enchants. Before R7s were minimum for "geared" now r5s are enough, invest all your drops for RP instead of ranking up enchants.
But that means tiamat has obsoleted all previous content in the game, why would they do that?
My theory is simple. They know they can make a zone and perhaps a dungeon for a mod. Tiamat is a test to see if they can get away having just 1 zone and 1 dungeon being the only content, and see if they lose players with such limited real content available. It's a test to see if they can get away with raising the level cap and maintain players.
Going into IWD as a 10.5 alt was the most fun I've had in this game while not in a group. It was perfect. There was a real danger of getting my face smashed in by the mobs. IWD should absolutely not be 12-13kgs.
IWD has it so should WOD
and in Tiamat sometimes I get 2 shot by mobs and I am 19+ what do you think will happend to a 10 and 11
when there is low gs in tiamat the ground look like grass ,totally green.I was there
10 in tiamat is death weight
If they want low gs in tiamat ,they should give us more time to kill it and lower the mob damage and def.
and it aint going to happend
I think this incentive, if intended, isn't working at all since people go Tiamat with low gs for a chance to get t2 gear without spending any AD on it. If they are so money pinching at current t2 prices in AH with virtual currency, I can't imagine they would feel inclined to spend real life money on gearing up.
If you had 25 of the best players, even with a 12K GS (and no enchants - it's much cheaper and easier to get to 13K than to get enchants after all) you will not succeed. Tiamat is not a skill check, it's a dps check and players 12K or lower no matter how good they are, without enchants, just won't have the dps to pull it off.
Even if you disagree, you just can't get 25 predefined people into the same instance, so you will never get 25 of the best players into the same instance anyway.
total nonsense. your characters kGs do not represent your game skills.
Your suggest could be apply if developers decide to create epic tiamat insntat dungeon or something.
Do not focus game to top end gear players only.
Also team work is key for victory not a gear score.
For example when minions spawn, DC/CW use lets say dirty method, and push monsters from edge and monsters are instant kill. So even 9 kGs CW can do same stuffs. . Next thing, less panic, lot of good geared players panic like girls, for them wining is like matter of life and death.. Good that tiamat is hard. I prefer hard win, instead easy farming there. Because if you start easy farming, then you lose part of game, there will be no challenge left.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Can 10k GS players contribute to the fight? Of course, but they shouldn't be able to enter the fight regardless.
Just image how awful and chaotic it would be if you couldn't premade ANY content. Nobody wants that, but it's totally fine to be forced into a 10k PUG for the actual capstone content? Yeah......
Lets not forget that it's pretty easy to get 13-14K GS. Anyone lower than that is almost certainly NOT good at playing their class. Likewise there are some 19K GS players that suck. There are never any guarantees, but if I were to bet on things, I'd be more willing to bet the 19K knows how to play and will contribute more than the 10k. Or rather I would bet the 10K would contribute close to nothing.
well, but why not? Everyone should have fun and engage the story, we;ve been asking them to drop the gated content for ages and when they did it, we complain again... Let everyone get their templar, the pvp gaps are so huge i dont mind new players having access to some good, easy gear and is not like those artifacts can be lvled so easily...
What is not good is that they made old content useless... they should find a solution for that cause truly is a pity to lose it.
That's the point. The chance that a 19k GS char features a good player is much greater than a 10k char featuring someone with the same skill. It's probability and playing the odds, 10k gets sacked every time. Rightfully sacked.
And it's so easy to even get to 15-16k, I don't get why lowbies wanna talk their way into the fight. Use a week or two and gear up ffs, it's not hard.
We've been asking them to drop requirements? When and where? The community always wanted better PVP and more challenging PVE content, not some zergfest HE with 10k reqs when chars peaked at 20k GS even before Tiamat. I also don't agree everyone should instantly have access to Tiamat. Let them finish another campaign first before they see Artifact and Templar gear.
It's like you said, leveling takes ages and it actually makes sense progression-wise to max out your char without Artifact gear and then go for it, because it's not necessarily better than other stuff until purple or so.
And old content is so useless right now in part because so many players can do Tiamat and get those T1/T2s. It's not the whole story though and I agree past content needs major tweaking.
It is not always "easy" to get 15k GS in every class. It can be easy if you have AD to spend on gear, R7+ enchants, and those "zone completion" books for Shar and DR. And some classes generally have lower GS than others.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
No, I did the test some days ago and geared up from 0 to 12k GS with 5$ worth of ZEN/ADs and R4s. That's easy in my book. Add two weeks of campaign progression and you could be able to land at 15k. You pretty much just need to grind VT for your weapon set and get the first boons in every campaign, which is easy as hell.
every player have own game style.. Some players tend to rush in front lines, while other one goes sneaky way. Other like stay in grope while some prefer go solo.. But TIAMAT raid require team work. Not gear score..
Problem is of selfish players. All try get more score and thats it. For example I have seen how GWF lured monsters from 2 clerics and fight solo... He die, then gang of monsters kill other ones.. And CW's instead using CC daily use dps daily. All in order get more points. Not for wining. Also I have seen how 17 kGS players simply sit and watch how other players die, and he fight with monsters 1 vs 1..... Come one, even with my non uber geared warlock I handle group monsters, even SW have no mass CC skills.. So nop, its not the problem of kGS, is matter of players ..
And yesterday I have been in Tiamat raid, it was funny, party of mid kGs player defended clerics far better than some random top geared players.. Party fighted one head while all remaining chaos zerg rushed to hit green head.
So by adding kGS limitation it will not make players smarter.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I still think this will not work for all classes. GF and GWF have a much easier time getting higher GS than TR and some other classes.
My TR which I have had since Beta took a while to hit 16k GS.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Yeah... not really. There's no challenge really, it's down to defending the clerics which I could solo 1 by myself, and activating your gems. It's not hard, but of course with pugs some may lack ability. However half of the classes can dodge red, white is avoidable and black is an annoying debuff, but not vital. That leaves green and blue gems as needed which is pretty hard to mess up with 25 players. Apart from that it's a full on dps race and making sure not to get heads less than 10% until the kill phase. There's no dodging involved, little timing. Just dps (which does require you to know about debuffs and decent powers and feats), also ideally a freaking set bonus of some kind.
This should not be up for debate. It's bad enough to pug without having pugs that don't even contribute dps or debuffs. A GS requirement is the standard restriction they've always used and is better than nothing. Looking forward to the new class which will probably make all of the defenders regret their decision. So many 10k gs druids or whatever to ruin the raids.
FYI red isn't that bad even on non-dodging classes. On my SW I can't dodge the breath but I can toss WB and DT for full stacks of the defense buff. With that in effect the breath just kind of tickles. GWF could save unstoppable for it, and the GF could block.
I noticed that on my SW, but wasn't sure if it was due to my dc artifact or some other not intended feature as it does seem kind of broken. GWF, I wouldn't know, mines pretty much abandoned (although pretty much all but my CW are really), and GF block is true. I'm unsure how effective the HR dodges are, I guess they're still alright. It's kind of funny being capable to dodge something while not actually avoiding it.
Here's 150k AD spent tops on a TR. You can go 2x2 instead of a full T2 set and get to 12k (Toughness will add another ~500 GS, the char is unfeated) without any boons or artifacts. Even if it would take a while to get to 15k... what's the deal? Play the game a little before you get the chance at the best loot available.
This is an MMO. It shouldn't be too easy to get 15k GS. With that said, I think the commitment to get to 13-15k GS is pretty reasonable for this game. Beyond the goal of 15k GS, I have already stated that this game's endgame PVE farming has some serious problems.
I simply don't get it. They lifted the reqs in every Mod only to completely derail the progression in Mod 5. I guess because Tyranny of Dragons was a major content update for D&D and WotC, there might have been sort of an agreement to make Tiamat a widespread experience, but in terms of this game it is a complete brainfart.
I don't want players to spend the exact amount of time I have been to get here, but currently they can skip everything and it leads to plethora problems...
Well I think a lot of players agreed with you just looking at the population in Mod 4&5 and Mod 3/previous mods.
I think Tiamat, well of dragons and RNG systems pissed off a lot of players to the point of indifference. Let's hope module 6 isn't more of the same.
You really aren't alone. Tons and tons of players quit because of how awful Modules 4&5 were in terms of overpowered classes and lack of endgame.
The Tiamat raid was supposed to be the ONLY thing (since we didn't get tier 3 dungeons or new PVP maps/modes) and that flopped bigtime due to poor farmability and the inability to queue with your friends.
I think we can say that Module 6 is the last make/break for a lot of the veteran players in this game.