all i got to say is if it was the dev plan to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off they did it if they wanted a good mod they failed
Actually I think the majority of players are fairly happy with it. I certainly am.
I have my offhand and my cloak and I am about halfway to that first "linu" boon. I'm not a uber-player, just someone who plays the game as he finds it. If you discount the early Tiamat days I'm probably on a 70 to 80% win rate in Tiamat. Fails are usually too many AFK or too many uber players giving up too soon. If they stuck with it a bit longer rather than rage-quitting they may be surprised at what can be achieved.
yes GS is an issue and this is hard for me to admit.
but Another problem is people just quitting
Maybe both could be fixed by adding a Non-epic Tiamat and epic Tiamat adventure.
With the first aimed to prepare folks for the latter
Then maybe the groups would more likely to actually fight to thr end.
Urlord
Oh man.... I can't count the number of times I've seen a sizable number of people decide that the fight is unwinnable simply because the red head wasn't done in phase one. Annoying. If you get to red in phase 1, you're doing fine. For those people though, anything less than absolute surety of winning means it's quitting time.
no i totaly agree redhead is nice but not needded to have done by first phase ,but if you do not have black head not done by first phase then it is a loss 100% of the time and that is nothing but way to many 10ks in there
My motto is if on the first phase you're not almost done green head, it's pretty much a guaranteed loss and I personally wouldn't bother fighting. If you slightly didn't manage it, then if there were mistakes made, maybe you can catch up. Black and green zerging can sometimes take more time anyway than the rest of the fighting. Getting red partly or fully down is nice, but not required on the first phase.
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
Oh man.... I can't count the number of times I've seen a sizable number of people decide that the fight is unwinnable simply because the red head wasn't done in phase one. Annoying. If you get to red in phase 1, you're doing fine. For those people though, anything less than absolute surety of winning means it's quitting time.
U forgot white head sometimes can take as twice time that any other head, not only of whole raid freezed for 15s or so, but also coz that one push melees back and they slide on frozen ground too (if more than 2 ppl takes white gem its great lol), couple of times i miself missed IBS or just slid out xD So basicly if red head is not even touched, we have a problem... if its half we have 50/50 for win if its done in second phase we r almost sure of victory (if whole HE wont get bugged).
Its not about rage quiting or somthing, its about developing an ability to judge situation. If we would go through life with only hope, we all would be blessed. Also, one have situations in life what r not worth fighting for, has also those when its sin not to try, and those when the matter is honor, so u dont let go, even if its sure lose. Tiamat is not any of last two.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
0
doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
According to some people, that would be elitist and unfair to the people who can't be bothered to get basic gear.
Frishter I have agreed with lots of things you have said and you are certainly a forum regular. I don't think we should be catering those who dont want to try, so along with your sarcasm and the OP I have say we definitely need to up that GS requirement for tiamat or flat out make it a requirement that you MUST go through the campaign tree to unlock tiamat AND have a GS requirement. I mean really, how many of us labored through every single campaign? The solution is easy for cryptic as you can or could for awhile at least just buy campaign progression so if people don't want to wait 30 days or whatever it was to go through the thing to unlock both skirmish and LoL then they can fork over the money to buy the campaign completion.
I also wish they had made Tiamat more dungeon like and you had to work your way to her at least. Maybe have 5 paths to take, everyone can take a different one or everyone can zerg down 1 and get there super fast. Maybe a really fun interesting boss fight with severin other than the Stomping we give him in front of Tiamat. Would make for some good story telling that we kick is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a boss fight and then when in front of her she could have really good reason to call him a fool LOL
Elitist or NOT this games END game content IS elitist to some degree as well ti should be for those of us who earned it .... and i'm not talking about the people that paid god knows how much money to buy their artifact gear to Orange 24 hours after its released. My stuff is still purple and blue due to how long it takes to level that stuff up and how FEW the refining points are for it.
On a side note Double RP weekends just show us that is probably where the refining should start out at and double RP should be x2 of that ... or at least as far as gear goes ... blue should be base 600/1200 and purple gear should be several thousand or at least be worth the same RP as its AD salvage price. Artifact gear should follow the same rules as the artifacts and get the x4 or x5 bonus so that if we rank something up to blue at least we can feed it to another one if we decide to or find ourselves needign or able to change which gear pieces we have.
It takes WAY TOO much tedious refining to level the gear up.
now that said, it won't stop the fails, it won't stop the idiots who hump the clerics or don't grab or use gems, and it won't stop the bugs.
but it would help, and should be implemented ASAP. no good f'n reason not.
fwiw all of my fails lately have come from low dps on the first 2 heads, not getting red head below 75% or so, and then a lot of people just quit. IMO they are weak p***ys for not trying harder as it can still be done as long as black&green are done in the 1st round, but I guess I can't really blame people, when you see high DPS groups get thru black-green-red and damage blue down to 60% on the 1st head phase....
In normal dungeons 1 good player can carry 4 weak players.
In tiamat this is impossible.
And it is not just GS, lack of gear and low DPS are big problems, but lack of IQ is even bigger.
If all those low GS <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gets one of gems and uses it when needed, they would be still useful. Unfortunately most of them do nothing - just sitting away from fight, because they got single-shooted by every mob in area.
I'm a firm believer that gear score isn't everything, my friend has a gear score around 11k and he can beat most 17k-18k in pvp, but in pve the dps difference is very significant. IQ and knowing your class/how to play is a very big part in it. I fully agree with this message. I've noticed far too many times people just sitting at the camp fire....
And to the comment about me "checking gear score" I do that while waiting on the timer, nothing else to do but sit there any way since no one wants to formulate a strategy together and do groups.
If I could organize a full 25 man party for Tiamat and be able to speak to all of them in a raid chat then there would probably be a higher success rate... But seeing as most people don't wanna be told what to do because they "already know" then it'd be like talking into the wind.
It's not about the 10k GS players. Both math and experience has shown that 10k GS players can perform adequately in a zerg-style Tiamat raid.
It is about the 20k GS players who give up at the first sign of trouble, because they would rather have guaranteed wins instead of having to fight for a last-minute victory.
Too many players just leave the raid, or AFK at the campfire, if the zerg hasn't gotten to the red head by the end of the first round, even though, most of the time, the raid is still winnable at that point.
Before there is any minimum GS requirement imposed higher than 10k, I would much rather see an AFK penalty, and to make it impossible to leave the raid once it has started.
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
It's not about the 10k GS players. Both math and experience has shown that 10k GS players can perform adequately in a zerg-style Tiamat raid.
No, nothing shows that. 1-2x 10k players can preform, even up to 5 if rest of raid is 16-17k+, we never had 25-man raid of 10k ppl only right? I told it before, dps of those 10ks is boosted by things like pterror, gpf other players debuffs coming from dffrent skills, which basicly makes 10k not totaly useless.
I rly want to see raid made from only 10k, without enchats at all (sf incuded, since if 10k cant earn highter gear he cant also earn prefects or even lessers, right?) u know 10kgs ppl have usualy ~20k hp? if not elss, its 1 hit from head, 1 hit from add. but nvm this.
Do u rly think raid of 10k gs can do anything? I have noticed ppl intentionaly avoid to even consider that 10k have no weap/armor enchants...
As I'm sure you are aware, armor/weapon enchants are not factored into GS. So there's no reason why a 10k GS player couldn't or wouldn't have a soulforged or a weapon enchant.
And yes, the 10k player's DPS is boosted by all of the buffs that everyone else offers. THAT IS WHY THE ZERG WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Actually, I'd love to see a 25-person 15k GS raid do Tiamat completely without any buffs at all. I don't think it would be possible, because the buffs really are that sweet.
This hypothetical 10k GS team would have to focus way more on control than DPS when it came to the cleric phases. The team would probably want GFs to kite adds, rather than attempt to kill them. If the team was very efficient here, the team would then get 4-5 rounds with the heads. Which is plenty of time.
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
edited January 2015
I said it before, what kind of pug can earn even lesser vorpal/terror/whatever and cant get his gs above 10k? Its illogical in first place...
Assuming that we have 10k raid, we also need to asume that they cant get any enchants, since we r not speaking here about old players rolling another alt (those player r usualy samrt enought to not go at 10k toon.), but about foolishness called "10k new player who knows his class", dont we?
I said it before, what kind of pug can earn even lesser vorpal/terror/whatever and cant get his gs above 10k? Its illogical in first place...
Assuming that we have 10k raid, we also need to asume that they cant get any enchants, since we r not speaking here about old players rolling another alt (those player r usualy samrt enought to not go at 10k toon.), but about foolishness called "10k new player who knows his class", dont we?
I smell hypocrisy and lying to yourself here.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Can 10k GS players participate adequately in the raid? Yes.
Can new players, bad players, inexperienced players, stupid players, players with poor choices for build and gear, participate adequately in the raid, regardless of GS? No.
It's one thing that the GS req of the fight is obviously too low, but another that you don't need any sort of experience at NWO to enter the fight. It's redonkulous:
Mod1: 9200, needs unlock through campaign
Mod2: 10500, needs unlock through campaign
Mod3: 12000, needs unlock & BI gear & boons from another campaign
Mod4: 13000, needs unlock
Mod5: 10000, needs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
Not only am I forced to play with low geared scrubs, I also have to fight alongside players that don't need any experience in NWO at all as a player who went through all the content since Beta.
All players starting the game right now can be as geared as I am in the same timeframe, sort of.
I'll stop bringing my 10k characters when the 15-20k can learn how to use their jems
(Is it wrong to make a second T2 or blue 10,001 GS set just to annoy the investigators?)
While I'm sure the forum wants a high-end end-game raid, they're right on one ... thing this isn't one (seems to be designed to have other purposes as well) .. now you just need to deal with not getting what you want and having to play with "underseving people"
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
Can 10k GS players participate adequately in the raid? Yes.
Can new players, bad players, inexperienced players, stupid players, players with poor choices for build and gear, participate adequately in the raid, regardless of GS? No.
Now, the question is.. which smart/good player stays on his alt with 10k gs? when he can judge, that even if he can play well his 10k player, it will be better when he will incrase his gs, get some good boons (like endless) and get 4/4 armor sets? WHICH smart player would choose to go as 10k player, when he can w8 a bit longer and incrase greatly his potential, when he knows that he has many contet before him that only tiamat, when he knows, tat simply lvling toon to r60 and get him some blue gear dont means he knows his new alt perfectly, when he knows what low surivability low gear toons has(4k power, 2k arpen, 2k crit 2k defense is 10k gs aready, where is LS? where is deflect? where is additional hp since base usualy is around 18k? [if u can stack stats so perfectly in first palce])
R u sure that smart player would choose 10k alt as toon he wants to play on?
I can understand when we would make an experimetn and gather all our fellow legit players in 1 raid, tell them to get 10k gs on alt they know the best and we r going to try this timat on min gs requiret. Now what is a chance that randomly queued raid will get 25x 10k gs with perfect enchants, that will have a chance to test they abilities in this (from 10k point of view) challenging raid?
R u kidding me or r u a dreamer?
(Sin)cerely
Kain
0
shadows1313Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 68Arc User
edited January 2015
I keep reading now and then on forums mostly out of boredom while waiting dragons to spawn or raid to begin and seeing all these "10k player can do raid just fine" threads makes me wonder if people are daydreaming or something when they write them. At least they are funny, ill give them that.
This whole raid system thing is really messed up allowing people to jump directly into raids after a minimal gs requirement without even bothering with previous campaigns and content, its just nonsense to me. They should have implemented some more thought out requirement like we had with unlocking icewind dale for example. I liked an idea i read in one of the posts of someone proposing something like having 2 of each sharandar/dread ring/icewind boons in order to access raid (or even new map). That'd be far more realistic requirement than what we have now.
Also fact that we can't run it with friends or guildies is another matter that i find it annoying. Raid is something id like to enjoy running it with my friends not with pugs.
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited January 2015
Out of my 5 runs yesterday, 4 of them were not full from the beginning...19-22 players, the one with 19 didn't finish....the other 4 did. This is looking at how many are in the instance when the gates open, and during the first cleric phase, and checking again after first run at dragons.
It would appear that perhaps Cryptic is not filling instances to 25, now that less people are doing it, but spreading them out. As I said before if this is the case, and they expect us to finish with 19, perhaps a boon requirement, or a GS requirement, as the numbers in each instance are likely to shrink as more people stop doing Tiamat.
IWD have a minimum gs to enter,WOD should have one too
And every time a mod come out there should be a minimum gs requirement
I am a totally free player I have a character of 19+ gs ,it can be done
Nobody said that 10k players can do the raid "just fine". It would be a real struggle for them if the raid was only 10k players.
But what I object to is the constant scapegoating of 10k players for why a particular raid might fail. Sure it MIGHT be due to lack of DPS from an overabundance of 10k players. But, 9 times out of 10, it is due to a bunch of other things instead, such as people fighting on the clerics, people not using gems, and people giving up prematurely.
Nobody said that 10k players can do the raid "just fine". It would be a real struggle for them if the raid was only 10k players.
But what I object to is the constant scapegoating of 10k players for why a particular raid might fail. Sure it MIGHT be due to lack of DPS from an overabundance of 10k players. But, 9 times out of 10, it is due to a bunch of other things instead, such as people fighting on the clerics, people not using gems, and people giving up prematurely.
Most raids in my experience fail to bugs or lag. Hard to dps when you can only move every 20 secs.
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
Out of my 5 runs yesterday, 4 of them were not full from the beginning...19-22 players, the one with 19 didn't finish....the other 4 did. This is looking at how many are in the instance when the gates open, and during the first cleric phase, and checking again after first run at dragons.
It would appear that perhaps Cryptic is not filling instances to 25, now that less people are doing it, but spreading them out. As I said before if this is the case, and they expect us to finish with 19, perhaps a boon requirement, or a GS requirement, as the numbers in each instance are likely to shrink as more people stop doing Tiamat.
U r terrible mistaken, ppl r just checking average raid gs and leaving if its not pleasing them. Thats all.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
U r terrible mistaken, ppl r just checking average raid gs and leaving if its not pleasing them. Thats all.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
I dont think this is the case, as we finished with 20 and 21, and all were from great guilds.
Tho I am sure that people do leave instances because of GS, these instances were all high GS. excpet the failed one with 19 which was mostly High GS, but a mish mash of obvious first timers.
I dont think this is the case, as we finished with 20 and 21, and all were from great guilds.
Tho I am sure that people do leave instances because of GS, these instances were all high GS. excpet the failed one with 19 which was mostly High GS, but a mish mash of obvious first timers.
I leave if there are more than a couple DC's in the group. I know if there are quite a few that the lag will keep me from playing anyways and I prefer not to be sent into a rage that has me swearing at the monitor.
Most raids in my experience fail to bugs or lag. Hard to dps when you can only move every 20 secs.
Have to add quitters to that list. Any number of fails with last head at a sliver and 4-6 people who quit rnd 1 when Red was not as low as they wanted it to be.
I'm sure someone has already suggested this but I'm going to remunerate it once more. There needs to be a gear score requirement to enter the temple of Tiamat, just like there's a gear score requirement of 13k for eLoL. Why can't the gear score requirement for Tiamat be 13k? I believe eLoL is EASIER than Tiamat. So come on, be rational here.
Every time I enter Tiamat I check peoples gear to see if it's going to fail or win. As of late I've seen TONS and TONS of players joining it with 10k gs or 11k gs. You do realize that you're just LOSING the whole thing for the rest of us die-hard players who play to win?
Gear score requirement for Tiamat should be NO LESS than 13k. Players need to be in full T2 gear with 3 artifacts and good runes, it's not hard to raise your gear score, just have to do your dailies and work at it. Stop ruining Tiamat for the rest of us.
According to some people, that would be elitist and unfair to the people who can't be bothered to get basic gear.
Tiamat is easier because eLoL takes a lot longer to unlock for starters.
Secondly, people want to see and kill Tiamat, they think she drops the best gear. They're right.
You do understand some people have alts right, or that these "10-11k players" are possibly JUST as "die-hard" as you and trying to get their kick up from 10-11k?
I do understand the problem, I just did Tiamat for the third time and we lost miserably because everyone simply left. I've yet to see organization of any kind with Tiamat therefore the chances of failure are nearly 90%.
Raising your gearscore passed 10k is very difficult in the sense that it's time consuming to extremes. Instead of complaining though why not make a guide on how to do Tiamat? What to avoid and do, how to keep organized and efficient and/or make a guide with time estimates and all to getting over the 10k hurdle.
What you're going on about is extremely elitist, but I feel your pain. The developers wouldn't have made Tiamat impossible for people under 13k in my eyes since they can enter.
Having a Tiamat GS requirement is like having PvP GS brackets though...
I don't know how do ppl even fail tiamat so much times, I did 6 rounds now, 3 win 3 fail.
1 time it bugged in p3, 1 time we lost with 3 after, and had left 4% of the last head (and also some idiot DPS lovered too much other heads in prev rounds which could also add up to this fail) and only the last round was terrible were I bet I was in the top 5 Damage dealt with my GF...
But 50% is still a good rate I think also I got 2 dragon egg when I lost, which pretty much compensates for the fail.
Why do you leave instances? you can just wait the end of it, you still have a chance to get the most valuable rewards.
I don't know how do ppl even fail tiamat so much times, I did 6 rounds now, 3 win 3 fail.
1 time it bugged in p3, 1 time we lost with 3 after, and had left 4% of the last head (and also some idiot DPS lovered too much other heads in prev rounds which could also add up to this fail) and only the last round was terrible were I bet I was in the top 5 Damage dealt with my GF...
But 50% is still a good rate I think also I got 2 dragon egg when I lost, which pretty much compensates for the fail.
Why do you leave instances? you can just wait the end of it, you still have a chance to get the most valuable rewards.
Honestly 50% is pretty horrible. Any higher than a 15% fail rate is pretty bad for it imo.
Comments
Actually I think the majority of players are fairly happy with it. I certainly am.
I have my offhand and my cloak and I am about halfway to that first "linu" boon. I'm not a uber-player, just someone who plays the game as he finds it. If you discount the early Tiamat days I'm probably on a 70 to 80% win rate in Tiamat. Fails are usually too many AFK or too many uber players giving up too soon. If they stuck with it a bit longer rather than rage-quitting they may be surprised at what can be achieved.
Oh man.... I can't count the number of times I've seen a sizable number of people decide that the fight is unwinnable simply because the red head wasn't done in phase one. Annoying. If you get to red in phase 1, you're doing fine. For those people though, anything less than absolute surety of winning means it's quitting time.
U forgot white head sometimes can take as twice time that any other head, not only of whole raid freezed for 15s or so, but also coz that one push melees back and they slide on frozen ground too (if more than 2 ppl takes white gem its great lol), couple of times i miself missed IBS or just slid out xD So basicly if red head is not even touched, we have a problem... if its half we have 50/50 for win if its done in second phase we r almost sure of victory (if whole HE wont get bugged).
Its not about rage quiting or somthing, its about developing an ability to judge situation. If we would go through life with only hope, we all would be blessed. Also, one have situations in life what r not worth fighting for, has also those when its sin not to try, and those when the matter is honor, so u dont let go, even if its sure lose. Tiamat is not any of last two.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Frishter I have agreed with lots of things you have said and you are certainly a forum regular. I don't think we should be catering those who dont want to try, so along with your sarcasm and the OP I have say we definitely need to up that GS requirement for tiamat or flat out make it a requirement that you MUST go through the campaign tree to unlock tiamat AND have a GS requirement. I mean really, how many of us labored through every single campaign? The solution is easy for cryptic as you can or could for awhile at least just buy campaign progression so if people don't want to wait 30 days or whatever it was to go through the thing to unlock both skirmish and LoL then they can fork over the money to buy the campaign completion.
I also wish they had made Tiamat more dungeon like and you had to work your way to her at least. Maybe have 5 paths to take, everyone can take a different one or everyone can zerg down 1 and get there super fast. Maybe a really fun interesting boss fight with severin other than the Stomping we give him in front of Tiamat. Would make for some good story telling that we kick is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in a boss fight and then when in front of her she could have really good reason to call him a fool LOL
Elitist or NOT this games END game content IS elitist to some degree as well ti should be for those of us who earned it .... and i'm not talking about the people that paid god knows how much money to buy their artifact gear to Orange 24 hours after its released. My stuff is still purple and blue due to how long it takes to level that stuff up and how FEW the refining points are for it.
On a side note Double RP weekends just show us that is probably where the refining should start out at and double RP should be x2 of that ... or at least as far as gear goes ... blue should be base 600/1200 and purple gear should be several thousand or at least be worth the same RP as its AD salvage price. Artifact gear should follow the same rules as the artifacts and get the x4 or x5 bonus so that if we rank something up to blue at least we can feed it to another one if we decide to or find ourselves needign or able to change which gear pieces we have.
It takes WAY TOO much tedious refining to level the gear up.
Sorry side note and I digress too much.
now that said, it won't stop the fails, it won't stop the idiots who hump the clerics or don't grab or use gems, and it won't stop the bugs.
but it would help, and should be implemented ASAP. no good f'n reason not.
fwiw all of my fails lately have come from low dps on the first 2 heads, not getting red head below 75% or so, and then a lot of people just quit. IMO they are weak p***ys for not trying harder as it can still be done as long as black&green are done in the 1st round, but I guess I can't really blame people, when you see high DPS groups get thru black-green-red and damage blue down to 60% on the 1st head phase....
I'm a firm believer that gear score isn't everything, my friend has a gear score around 11k and he can beat most 17k-18k in pvp, but in pve the dps difference is very significant. IQ and knowing your class/how to play is a very big part in it. I fully agree with this message. I've noticed far too many times people just sitting at the camp fire....
And to the comment about me "checking gear score" I do that while waiting on the timer, nothing else to do but sit there any way since no one wants to formulate a strategy together and do groups.
If I could organize a full 25 man party for Tiamat and be able to speak to all of them in a raid chat then there would probably be a higher success rate... But seeing as most people don't wanna be told what to do because they "already know" then it'd be like talking into the wind.
It is about the 20k GS players who give up at the first sign of trouble, because they would rather have guaranteed wins instead of having to fight for a last-minute victory.
Too many players just leave the raid, or AFK at the campfire, if the zerg hasn't gotten to the red head by the end of the first round, even though, most of the time, the raid is still winnable at that point.
Before there is any minimum GS requirement imposed higher than 10k, I would much rather see an AFK penalty, and to make it impossible to leave the raid once it has started.
No, nothing shows that. 1-2x 10k players can preform, even up to 5 if rest of raid is 16-17k+, we never had 25-man raid of 10k ppl only right? I told it before, dps of those 10ks is boosted by things like pterror, gpf other players debuffs coming from dffrent skills, which basicly makes 10k not totaly useless.
I rly want to see raid made from only 10k, without enchats at all (sf incuded, since if 10k cant earn highter gear he cant also earn prefects or even lessers, right?) u know 10kgs ppl have usualy ~20k hp? if not elss, its 1 hit from head, 1 hit from add. but nvm this.
Do u rly think raid of 10k gs can do anything? I have noticed ppl intentionaly avoid to even consider that 10k have no weap/armor enchants...
(Sin)cerely
Kain
And yes, the 10k player's DPS is boosted by all of the buffs that everyone else offers. THAT IS WHY THE ZERG WORKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Actually, I'd love to see a 25-person 15k GS raid do Tiamat completely without any buffs at all. I don't think it would be possible, because the buffs really are that sweet.
This hypothetical 10k GS team would have to focus way more on control than DPS when it came to the cleric phases. The team would probably want GFs to kite adds, rather than attempt to kill them. If the team was very efficient here, the team would then get 4-5 rounds with the heads. Which is plenty of time.
Assuming that we have 10k raid, we also need to asume that they cant get any enchants, since we r not speaking here about old players rolling another alt (those player r usualy samrt enought to not go at 10k toon.), but about foolishness called "10k new player who knows his class", dont we?
I smell hypocrisy and lying to yourself here.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Can 10k GS players participate adequately in the raid? Yes.
Can new players, bad players, inexperienced players, stupid players, players with poor choices for build and gear, participate adequately in the raid, regardless of GS? No.
Mod1: 9200, needs unlock through campaign
Mod2: 10500, needs unlock through campaign
Mod3: 12000, needs unlock & BI gear & boons from another campaign
Mod4: 13000, needs unlock
Mod5: 10000, needs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
Not only am I forced to play with low geared scrubs, I also have to fight alongside players that don't need any experience in NWO at all as a player who went through all the content since Beta.
All players starting the game right now can be as geared as I am in the same timeframe, sort of.
(Is it wrong to make a second T2 or blue 10,001 GS set just to annoy the investigators?)
While I'm sure the forum wants a high-end end-game raid, they're right on one ... thing this isn't one (seems to be designed to have other purposes as well) .. now you just need to deal with not getting what you want and having to play with "underseving people"
Now, the question is.. which smart/good player stays on his alt with 10k gs? when he can judge, that even if he can play well his 10k player, it will be better when he will incrase his gs, get some good boons (like endless) and get 4/4 armor sets? WHICH smart player would choose to go as 10k player, when he can w8 a bit longer and incrase greatly his potential, when he knows that he has many contet before him that only tiamat, when he knows, tat simply lvling toon to r60 and get him some blue gear dont means he knows his new alt perfectly, when he knows what low surivability low gear toons has(4k power, 2k arpen, 2k crit 2k defense is 10k gs aready, where is LS? where is deflect? where is additional hp since base usualy is around 18k? [if u can stack stats so perfectly in first palce])
R u sure that smart player would choose 10k alt as toon he wants to play on?
I can understand when we would make an experimetn and gather all our fellow legit players in 1 raid, tell them to get 10k gs on alt they know the best and we r going to try this timat on min gs requiret. Now what is a chance that randomly queued raid will get 25x 10k gs with perfect enchants, that will have a chance to test they abilities in this (from 10k point of view) challenging raid?
R u kidding me or r u a dreamer?
(Sin)cerely
Kain
This whole raid system thing is really messed up allowing people to jump directly into raids after a minimal gs requirement without even bothering with previous campaigns and content, its just nonsense to me. They should have implemented some more thought out requirement like we had with unlocking icewind dale for example. I liked an idea i read in one of the posts of someone proposing something like having 2 of each sharandar/dread ring/icewind boons in order to access raid (or even new map). That'd be far more realistic requirement than what we have now.
Also fact that we can't run it with friends or guildies is another matter that i find it annoying. Raid is something id like to enjoy running it with my friends not with pugs.
It would appear that perhaps Cryptic is not filling instances to 25, now that less people are doing it, but spreading them out. As I said before if this is the case, and they expect us to finish with 19, perhaps a boon requirement, or a GS requirement, as the numbers in each instance are likely to shrink as more people stop doing Tiamat.
And every time a mod come out there should be a minimum gs requirement
I am a totally free player I have a character of 19+ gs ,it can be done
But what I object to is the constant scapegoating of 10k players for why a particular raid might fail. Sure it MIGHT be due to lack of DPS from an overabundance of 10k players. But, 9 times out of 10, it is due to a bunch of other things instead, such as people fighting on the clerics, people not using gems, and people giving up prematurely.
Most raids in my experience fail to bugs or lag. Hard to dps when you can only move every 20 secs.
U r terrible mistaken, ppl r just checking average raid gs and leaving if its not pleasing them. Thats all.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
I dont think this is the case, as we finished with 20 and 21, and all were from great guilds.
Tho I am sure that people do leave instances because of GS, these instances were all high GS. excpet the failed one with 19 which was mostly High GS, but a mish mash of obvious first timers.
I leave if there are more than a couple DC's in the group. I know if there are quite a few that the lag will keep me from playing anyways and I prefer not to be sent into a rage that has me swearing at the monitor.
Have to add quitters to that list. Any number of fails with last head at a sliver and 4-6 people who quit rnd 1 when Red was not as low as they wanted it to be.
Tiamat is easier because eLoL takes a lot longer to unlock for starters.
Secondly, people want to see and kill Tiamat, they think she drops the best gear. They're right.
You do understand some people have alts right, or that these "10-11k players" are possibly JUST as "die-hard" as you and trying to get their kick up from 10-11k?
I do understand the problem, I just did Tiamat for the third time and we lost miserably because everyone simply left. I've yet to see organization of any kind with Tiamat therefore the chances of failure are nearly 90%.
Raising your gearscore passed 10k is very difficult in the sense that it's time consuming to extremes. Instead of complaining though why not make a guide on how to do Tiamat? What to avoid and do, how to keep organized and efficient and/or make a guide with time estimates and all to getting over the 10k hurdle.
What you're going on about is extremely elitist, but I feel your pain. The developers wouldn't have made Tiamat impossible for people under 13k in my eyes since they can enter.
Having a Tiamat GS requirement is like having PvP GS brackets though...
1 time it bugged in p3, 1 time we lost with 3 after, and had left 4% of the last head (and also some idiot DPS lovered too much other heads in prev rounds which could also add up to this fail) and only the last round was terrible were I bet I was in the top 5 Damage dealt with my GF...
But 50% is still a good rate I think also I got 2 dragon egg when I lost, which pretty much compensates for the fail.
Why do you leave instances? you can just wait the end of it, you still have a chance to get the most valuable rewards.
Honestly 50% is pretty horrible. Any higher than a 15% fail rate is pretty bad for it imo.