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Tiamat Requirements
princessjosie
Member Posts: 30
I'm sure someone has already suggested this but I'm going to remunerate it once more. There needs to be a gear score requirement to enter the temple of Tiamat, just like there's a gear score requirement of 13k for eLoL. Why can't the gear score requirement for Tiamat be 13k? I believe eLoL is EASIER than Tiamat. So come on, be rational here.
Every time I enter Tiamat I check peoples gear to see if it's going to fail or win. As of late I've seen TONS and TONS of players joining it with 10k gs or 11k gs. You do realize that you're just LOSING the whole thing for the rest of us die-hard players who play to win?
Gear score requirement for Tiamat should be NO LESS than 13k. Players need to be in full T2 gear with 3 artifacts and good runes, it's not hard to raise your gear score, just have to do your dailies and work at it. Stop ruining Tiamat for the rest of us.
Every time I enter Tiamat I check peoples gear to see if it's going to fail or win. As of late I've seen TONS and TONS of players joining it with 10k gs or 11k gs. You do realize that you're just LOSING the whole thing for the rest of us die-hard players who play to win?
Gear score requirement for Tiamat should be NO LESS than 13k. Players need to be in full T2 gear with 3 artifacts and good runes, it's not hard to raise your gear score, just have to do your dailies and work at it. Stop ruining Tiamat for the rest of us.
Post edited by princessjosie on
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I know, I agree. It should be expected that new and tougher content would have either the same or higher entry requirements. That has been one of the arguments for some reason though.
My argument against it is that I think if you got 25 of the best players that have ever played this game and gave them 10kgs toons, if they played perfectly they could win 1 tiamat out of 10. That's where I think min requirements for something should be set.
if not a gs min at least 2 boons from dread ring 2 boons from shrader and 2 boons from ice wind
that would give them time to learn there calss and gat some good gears and the boons
I'm sure a good team of 10k gs could complete elol too, but at 10k you're now more likely to have limited experience than someone a little higher. There's no reason for it to have less requirements than elol if it's harder and completely destroys progression.
Heck I almost got 12k gs on my mule cw that has done no dungeons and has rank 4s and a couple of rank 5s. That kind of gs is pretty much handed to you.
I support this idea as well.
I wouldn't be opposed to carry a handful of players through Tiamat, but it's when there's way more lowbies than stronger players that things crumble.
I have had one fail since xmas, and it was actually because there were only 19 people in the instance--I checked as we went to the first cleric phase-- and a few low GS, we were really close too. If they are going to put us into instances that aren't full, they should have a GS requirement as well.
As for requiring boons just to enter this dungeon that's a NO. Tyrrany of Dragons campaign was designed to be able to do it on your own as you level up. That was a player request if I am not mistaken to have a campaign that didn't require lvl 60 to START.
"Every time I enter Tiamat I check peoples gear to see if it's going to fail or win. " -princessjosie
That's akin to checking a sports player's stats for a GUESS at the end result of a game. No World Cup/ Stanley Cup/ NASCAR race/ Olympics or anything is ever a sure win/lose just because of probable statistics.
Same as PvP - GS isn't everything. Being adaptable to work your skills with the team you end up with is more important.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Considering all most people care about is the linu favor, you do in fact lose.
I am 20k GS HR and still depend to RNG luck gambling to get linus not worth my time
It's not elitism the higher GS got current condition from spent time or money
tiamat is end game pve in this mod 5 if you are not near endgame gear then you should not enter tiamat
even esot and elol have min req
if you +-10k GS and got a bad feeling when fail on tiamat imagine how +-20k gs feel when fail on tiamat
at this rate it's either dev's don't care or purely unknowledgeable about game system
for me tiamat system is a fail product
If you were unsuccessful in a T2 dungeon, though, you could simply regroup at the nearby campfire and try again immediately. ToT failure means you get to wait 35 minutes to queue up again. There is no "maybe we should..." moment.
The fight itself is a DPS race, and at 10k gs, most players can't bring the firepower required. I'm honestly shocked that the requirements are lower than the earlier epic SoT and LoL instances, by a significant margin. Bumping the requirement to at least equal those instances would make a huge difference.
25 of the best players that have ever played this game? they could play like scrubs and still win 10 out of 10 times in tiamat. 25 average players @10k gs can win tiamat 6 out of 10 times.
You people acting like Tiamat is hard. 10k gs is fine. If you want a min gs requirement then make Tiamat significantly harder.
i've done better than 90% of the players in my instances on 3 different 10k gs scrub characters (tr, dc, cw), and i'm not even really that great a player, better than most sure but that's more a factor of how crappy most players are rather a testament to my abilities.
My TR i leveled during 2x weekend had both his OH and Neck that same weekend in time for double refinement. my CW i leveled the last day of 2x has both as well. I just finished getting OH on my DC and working on neck. All 3 chars I started tiamat @ 10k gs and have 95% win records with. Each of them more than contributes, in fact some instances I even carry with my scrub characters.
I'm closing in on 200 tiamat runs (over 180) and i've had 12 failed runs. thats 94% success rate.
120 of those runs are on 20k+ gs characters, about 60 are on 10k gs scrubs.
failures were:
4 day 1 when it first opened up and nobody knew anything. 3 of which from cleric phase bug because scrubs run off before cleric phase finishes, and 5 due to knockback ******s wasting all our dragon killing time on cleric phase (what you people refer to as "lack of dps").
None of my fails on my low gs chars were due to "lack of DPS", even though the instance avg gs has steadily decreased since day 1 as more and more high gs players finish boon 7 and call it quits. the only fails i've had on low gs chars were the 3 failures for bugged cleric phase. My latest char my DC has the highest average of 2 round victories even though he has the lowest avg GS instances.
You should be able to get three runs at the heads. Averaging things out, that means you need to take down 1.67 heads on each tiamat phase.
I have been in runs where this does not happen.
As for the cleric phase, people need to realize that DPS *doesn't* matter there. Keeping mobs off the clerics *does*. One hit puts the cleric down, delaying the start of the next tiamat phase. If your raid isn't chaining / engaging / controlling the mobs quickly, they will get that hit in and turn a 2 min. cleric phase into 5 minutes. MY last run, I swapped in sunburst precisely because mobs were getting loose. When they did rush in, they got a 1-way ticket out before they could land their hit (or second hit in the case of Erinyes). Call me a **** if you want - the goal is keeping the cleric standing, and I will use whatever tool is needed to make that happen and ensure a successful run (which that one was).
And reading this thread makes me wonder if some of the Tiamat failures are down to too many players spending too much time inspecting other players' GS rather than, say, contributing to the task in hand. When that encounter kicks off you really don't have enough spare time to be counting and/or assessing your fellow team mates or to be typing abuse/whines in chat...
Play the game as you find it.
If req min gs become 15k yes there is no guarented that tiamat run become sucsses
but at least the change is higher and not being mess up by 10k gs player that not suppose to be in tiamat yet
it's ok if tiamat run failed because ourself not have capable gear but if you have near endgame gear that mean to enter tiamat but failed because some 10k gs mess thing up that's suck
Temple of Tiamat, as designed, is 10k gs requirement Heroic Encounter. anyone 10k or above has every right to be there, and all the tools necessary to complete the challenge.
Tiamat is EASY. I cannot think of an easier PVE encounter for the gs req. Tiamat is much, much easier for 25 10k gs players to defeat than for a 5x 9.2k GS characters to defeat CN or EDV. Much easier than 5x 13k gs chars to take out lostmauth or ESOT. It's about on par actually for 5x 8.3k GS chars to complete PK.
Stop scapegoating. If you are failing it's because you and the people in your instance are bad, and you should feel bad. It has nothing to do with GS. The #1 reason why people fail is not using gems appropriately. the #2 reason people fail is wasting all their time on cleric phase by using knockbacks and failing to gather aggro on the devils and subsequently running out of time to fight tiamat. The #3 reason people fail is by being overeager and leaving the clerics before the phase change occurs (trumpets play and the clerics say "she is weakened" etc) and bugging the instance.
Those are the only reasons you can fail tiamat and none of them have anything to do with your GS. The only difference in a low avg GS instance (13-14k avg) and a high avg gs instance (16-18k avg) is the latter is more likely to have a round 1/early round 2 victory as opposed to a late round 2/round 3 victory.
How is getting favors depend on RNG? You win, you get one, no RNG. I'm not doing ToT for boons because you need 80 favors to get all boons. Even if you win every run and not spend favors for off-hand and armor piece, that's 40 hours of play time. Then you need the two books from eSoT. So that's more hours in eSoL and getting the book is highly dependent on RNG. To me, that's ridiculous.
Now I have probably an 80% success rate in tiamat. However I get what they said. The RNG is the people you get in the group.
In tiamat this is impossible.
And it is not just GS, lack of gear and low DPS are big problems, but lack of IQ is even bigger.
If all those low GS <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gets one of gems and uses it when needed, they would be still useful. Unfortunately most of them do nothing - just sitting away from fight, because they got single-shooted by every mob in area.
Every single tiamat is carried by 4-8 players. Every, single, one. Hell I've seen some Tiamats being carried by the DPS of only 3 players. Doesn't matter if the lowest GS in your instance is 20k. 15-20 of those 20k players are useless and contribute basically nothing other than (hopefully) clicking a gem at the right time and not being a knockback scrub throwing mobs everywhere and costing you time.
So actually it's identical to 1 player carrying 4 weak players. and it happens every single tiamat instance. I've been the 10k player in that top 3-5 dmg (not scoreboard, actual dmg) on 3 different 10k gs scrub alts. GS has nothing to do with it.
How you gonna let an 11k buff DC no augment outdamage you in tiamat? idk how that is even possible since i'm buffing everyone's dmg 3x, but ask the 15-20 players all with 3-10k more gs than me that i out damage every run.
same players that complain that PVE is too easy are the ones whining asking them to make Tiamat easier. And that's all you are doing, asking for a min 15k gs is asking for a guaranteed carry of your skilless #%@ in tiamat cus you can't even zerg? come on bro, it's already broken down barneystyle, how do you fail to zerg-rush pve?
Rank 1: Gems
When you dont have this sigil around your head you wear no gem. Fail! When you spam your gem at cleric phase (perhaps also the wrong one because you dont know the AoE pattern for your element) an don't have it ready in front of the dragon goddess. Fail!
Rank 2: Bugs
No one knows exactly what bugs there are. But they are and they are legion. 3 of them are proclaimed every time I run it.
1) Running in and crossing the red line too early.
2) Attacking the heads or the position where a head will/should spawn too early.
3) Using Astral Seal.
Rank 3: Leech/AFK/Lag
When 8 of 25 players stand at the campfire or enjoy the nice landscape it is hard for the rest. I dont know how much of them are really AFK have lag (and don know that suicide solves the problem) or are really fu##g leechers.
Rank 4: DPS
I do not completely aggree with 'inthefade462'. A lot of the 18k+ players organize in chat groups and enter together for a save win. So there are low-GS peaks ^^ in some instances. I have seen instances with 50% of the players around 10k-12k. Sometimes they win anyway. But it is more complex: DPS is reduced for every AFK-player (rank 3) for every dead player in the AoE... and 10k low-life dies instant (rank 1) and for every provoked lag (rank 2). In the organized runs these problams are rare and in the pug instances... not. So the combination of low GS and lack of skill is a common pair. And the most annoying: A big bunch of people (especially high GS) has no balls and leaves the battlefield when phase one seems "slow" and ruins it for all.
Rank 5: Cleric phase
I don't get it. You could do the complete whole phase (all three bases) with 3 tanks and a cleric. With four players! At mid GS. Without killing any mob. Why do people knock them around and focus on destroying the mobs ASAP? When you don't kill them they do not respawn. It reminds me of ToS... To be fair my instance never failed because of this. Even if you are very slow in the cleric phases you get 3 phases in total.
sorry for wall of text but I was in the mood ^^
//Bellistor
Not if you enter 1 min before the end. Otherwise yes there is plenty of time to inspect. Kessels retreat had a 14k gs entry limit to begin with. Then people complained about the entry requirements being broken. GS wasn't the thing that was being complained about. Honestly, I don't know why people would even bother defending the 10k limit. People have twice the gs from beta, the requirements should also be higher. But if some of you are all that persistent. I hope you won't be still doing tiamat when the new class comes out. You'll be getting a lot more 10k gs people doing it as a way of gearing up.
yes GS is an issue and this is hard for me to admit.
but
Another problem is people just quitting
Maybe both could be fixed by adding a Non-epic Tiamat and epic Tiamat adventure.
With the first aimed to prepare folks for the latter
Then maybe the groups would more likely to actually fight to thr end.
Urlord
Even if it was true, T2 is precisely what you get by farming Tiamat. It makes sense to loot your gear in the place where this gear drops.