pando, srsly, what's your problem with intimidation? You don't have a problem with runner GWFs that run faster with chainmail than a naked Usain Bolt, yet you're against a build that does what the class was intended to do from the start? I don't get you. We all agreed that intimidation shouldn't stay as it is, but removing it altogether and boosting weird stuff no-one but you wants? No thanks. I love the fact that I can deal AoE damage with a sentinel and I'd love to keep that as an option. GWF AoE encounters already suck hard, no need to get rid of the only useful 2.
After all, sentinel is an off-tank, he needs to deal AoE damage to keep adds off main tank or other team members. Intimidation was a good move towards making this role possible, although threat generation is still lacking/bugged.
pando, srsly, what's your problem with intimidation?
It never was a WAI build. It existed for a long time as a secret, hidden build, everyone using it knew it was an exploit. Later it emerged and became widely known b/c it was the only way to deliver some damage at all. It happens to be the most damaging rotation, but it's still a side effect. It's like there is a hidden code sequence, or forgotten bug, that make the GF hit for 100k if he jumps twice and then drinks a tidespan potion.
It never was a WAI build. It existed for a long time as a secret, hidden build, everyone using it knew it was an exploit. Later it emerged and became widely known b/c it was the only way to deliver some damage at all. It happens to be the most damaging rotation, but it's still a side effect. It's like there is a hidden code sequence, or forgotten bug, that make the GF hit for 100k if he jumps twice and then drinks a tidespan potion.
It works as intended. Devs stated that it's a great tanking tool and it benefits from all the damage bonuses. How is that not WAI to you? And secret build? What the hell are you talking about? Before the change in late mod 4, intimidation dealt a 50% power as piercing damage but it did not benefit from any bonuses. 10k power meant a fixed 5k damage. Nothing life threatening from encounters with such a long cooldown.
GWF was intended to be AoE dps/off-tank class from the get-go. And intimidation, although not perfectly balanced, is a good move towards that.
pando, srsly, what's your problem with intimidation? You don't have a problem with runner GWFs that run faster with chainmail than a naked Usain Bolt, yet you're against a build that does what the class was intended to do from the start? I don't get you. We all agreed that intimidation shouldn't stay as it is, but removing it altogether and boosting weird stuff no-one but you wants? No thanks. I love the fact that I can deal AoE damage with a sentinel and I'd love to keep that as an option. GWF AoE encounters already suck hard, no need to get rid of the only useful 2.
After all, sentinel is an off-tank, he needs to deal AoE damage to keep adds off main tank or other team members. Intimidation was a good move towards making this role possible, although threat generation is still lacking/bugged.
Did you even read my post.
I didn't remove intimidation.
I decreased the damage per target and increased the target cap.
This way a sentinel can deal some AoE DPS (2.5k on 10 or 15 mobs is 25k damage to 35-40k damage in AoE depending on the number of mobs).
But this way you can't use the 2 encounters to deal single target burst the way it is now or massive AoE DPS that rivals a DPS path.
And if you do not understand why it's idiotic to make a tank path deal huge DPS bursts through AoE utility encounters stacking power and a feat, then there's nothing else i can explain to you.
Also, to clarify: you are not supposed to deal high AoE DPS with a sentinel. You want AoE huge numbers or DPS huge numbers in general ,you go destroyer or instigator. If you go down the tank path, DPS is not your top priority. So you should be right between a GF and a destroyer.
SENTINEL IS A TANK PATH NOT A DPS PATH.
You want to grab aggor, you do it through threat, you want to pull mobs off your team mates, you do it through CAGI pull.
Not through damage.
Sentinel is not an off-tank right now. The changes i proposed are exactly to make it a more reliable tank and get rid of the stupid damage you deal now.
Cause it's stupid to have a tank path dealing huge AoE DPS bursts or single target DPS bursts with 2 utility encounters and a feat.
Sentinels are supposed to survive a lot and deal SOME DPS, not high DPS. If you want DPS, you go down a DPS path.
What you should get with sentinel is DECENT DPS, TOP SURVIVABILITY and good utility/ ability to DEFEND. If you link defensive capability to DPS you're going down the wrong road and it should be quite obvious why.
It's not rocket science.
About GWF runner: it does not run faster. It runs more. To start. It's linked to stamina.
Second: it does not break the balance cause as a destroyer runner you are squishy, and you are forced to use takedown which is a melee range power. If you use FLS, you have a 17s gap you cannot afford as a destroyer in PvP, and in PvE you would run half of the time dealing no DPS.
The "but you wear chain mail you should not run fast" argument is quite stupid too for the simple reason that we are talking about a fantasy world where mages can teleport, warlocks can zoom around and dragons fly in the sky.
We are talking from a pure practical and gameplay point of view. And from a gameplay point of view it makes perfectly sense that a squishy spec is able to feat for high mobility and non-ranged combat. What would you do if the GWF was slow? You would hit thin air in PvP and never catch a fly.
GWF DPS can either go with FLS which is ranged AoE and reduces the need to run around too much, or can use battle fury as a sprinter, give up 1 DPS encounter and be limited to BF-Takedown-IBS mechanic which is hard as hell to play in PvP and not useful in PvE.
You guys have no clue about what you talk about. I am sorry but if you come up with a intimidation vs battle fury comparison, that's all i can say to you. And i can't explain each and every time how a sprinter is not a magical unicorn that can sprint forever and keep all the advantages.
It's a meh spec that gives much more mobility and CC immunity, at the cost of less DPS and melee range combat limitation, along with squishyness of a destroyer spec.
Intimidation sentinel is a full tank path that fails at tanking (sentinels still die faster than other classes in PvP and fail at tanking in PvE) and excels at DPS using 2 utility AoE encounters and a feat.
What i proposed is to make sentinels deal decent but not great DPS as they should do, but tank way more in both PvP and PvE while being able to truly protect team mates.
My problem with intimidation is that you have a tank spec going PvP and dealing single target DPS with a couple of AoE utility encounters centered on the player, and a feat. While still not being able to truly tank or protect anything.
CAGI must allow the GWF to pull all enemies on top of him, taking them away from allies. And power up the GWF for the following attack.
DS must allow the GWF to tank more, produce enough threat and mark.
The feat must add "some" damage to the utility, not a ton of damage or burst damage that can rival DPS encounters.
Restoring strike should be the DPS weapon of a sentinel, linked to self healing return to boost the main feature of the path: survivability.
For a sentinel it is Survivability> protection> DPS
For a desroyer it is DPS> Seuvivability> protection
For a instigator it should be DPS=survivability=protection
that's how the 3 features are supposed to work, by definition of the class and paths, and PURE LOGIC.
Also, by pure logic, you deal single target DPS or AoE DPS through single target or AoE DPS encounters. Not through AoE utility encounters.
It works as intended. Devs stated that it's a great tanking tool and it benefits from all the damage bonuses. How is that not WAI to you? And secret build? What the hell are you talking about? Before the change in late mod 4, intimidation dealt a 50% power as piercing damage but it did not benefit from any bonuses. 10k power meant a fixed 5k damage. Nothing life threatening from encounters with such a long cooldown.
GWF was intended to be AoE dps/off-tank class from the get-go. And intimidation, although not perfectly balanced, is a good move towards that.
Dealing DPS to tank is a nonsense. You get that? DPS as a tanking tool?
DPS from AoE utility encounters?
Seriosuly, just put some logic into it.
You have 3 paths. One is tank. One is DPS. One is hybrid.
As a sentinel tank, you are supposed to deal some DPS, not high DPS bursts, and have tools to generate threat and CC mobs to keep them on you and protect the allies. You are not supposed to DPS around.
You want pure DPS, you go destroyer.
You want a balanced mix, you go instigator.
5k damage which benefits from damage boost and can crit? 5k is IBS damage. Plus it's not decreased by the number of targets. You crit for 19k intimidation, it's 19k on each target.
With all damage boosts and vorpal you can get such numbers on a tank path using AoE utility encounters.
Restoring strike, which is boosted in capstone and supposed to be a sentinel main DPS and survivability weapon, is useless right now.
And sentinels can't tank shlt cause DR against piercing damage is useless and end-game mobs in SoT and other dungeons hit hard enough to smash a current sentinel if you get focused by them all (which is what a tank should do).
Sentinels should tank more, protect more, and deal less damage than they do now, with encounters that are designed for DPS and not for utility.
No, I get it right. You don't want to make sentinel a viable off-tank build, you want to make it a main tank. GWF was never intended to be a main tank, it's an off-tank. As poor as it is currently, off-tank nevertheless. And off-tank in general keeps adds off the tank (thus the name) and party and for that he needs both survivability and AoE damage.
If you actually played a sentinel, you'd notice that it's nearly impossible to deal more than half the damage of DPS classes at ~10k power and only at 12k+ power does the sentinel becomes a dps class but even then he's beyond in single target damage. And the base damage at ~10k power is where effectenstein and me are aiming to put a halt on.
Your suggestion to reduce cagi/daring shout damage to nothingness and increasing target count is clueless as well. It's obvious by now that you play little of PvE. The latest content does not have more than 5 targets per mob at any given time. And they're tough as hell. Increasing it further down would only make old content easier but then again, it can hardly get easier than it already is.
Moreover, your suggestion for no crit on intimidation would also render crit rate, crit severity, vorpal enchantment and weapon master strike feature a complete waste for sentinels as 2 out of 3 encounters would be crit-less. Do you really want to remove the feature GWF is recognized by? Please don't.
Also, you're forgetting GWF is primary a DPS class and only secondary tank. And in case of Sentinel, he HAS to deal much more damage than tank/support classes but a lot less than primary dps classes. As well as he should have a much better survivability than dps classes but much worse than main tank.
I'd suggest you use logic yourself. Because you're holding a grudge against sentinels for whatever reason.
Dealing DPS to tank is a nonsense. You get that? DPS as a tanking tool?
DPS from AoE utility encounters?
Seriosuly, just put some logic into it.
You have 3 paths. One is tank. One is DPS. One is hybrid.
As a sentinel tank, you are supposed to deal some DPS, not high DPS bursts, and have tools to generate threat and CC mobs to keep them on you and protect the allies. You are not supposed to DPS around.
You want pure DPS, you go destroyer.
You want a balanced mix, you go instigator.
5k damage which benefits from damage boost and can crit? 5k is IBS damage. Plus it's not decreased by the number of targets. You crit for 19k intimidation, it's 19k on each target.
With all damage boosts and vorpal you can get such numbers on a tank path using AoE utility encounters.
Restoring strike, which is boosted in capstone and supposed to be a sentinel main DPS and survivability weapon, is useless right now.
And sentinels can't tank shlt cause DR against piercing damage is useless and end-game mobs in SoT and other dungeons hit hard enough to smash a current sentinel if you get focused by them all (which is what a tank should do).
Sentinels should tank more, protect more, and deal less damage than they do now, with encounters that are designed for DPS and not for utility.
Please, use some logic.
just check again the #1 post, that will make the SENTINEL to LOSE SOME DAMAGE BURST and the changes on DS/CAGI that are in BOLD will give some utility.
listen, when DROW set will be released everyone will take it.
that set offers 9.5% deflect
we pick the DESTROYER SET cuz thats the best one from all of them.
you get 2.3k deflect hitin the cap.
that means with bravery slotted you have 40% + 9.5% + 2% bravery offhand
over 50% or almost 50% deflect chance, with weapon master you get 10% more = 60% , isn't that enough for tankyness? with 40%-80% DR .
so the only way to achieve this in PVP
si to remove 35% out of POWER.
and put 350% out of weapon damage or even 300% out of weapon damage. it can be nerfed afterwards if its too OP.
what GWF will need? is the utility on both CAGI/DS
check the first post.
check zveris post were he's done the MATH on how much damage.
keep in mind right now BIS GWF has 14k power in PVP = 4.600 damage X over 80% DAMAGE BONUS and over 140% crit severity.
i took in consideration everything before i've done the first post .
so far none of you brought someth that would help the GWF on each paragon, only to make him STRONGER STRONGER to be OP.
this is not my intention.
you must be insane to say that DESTROYER PARAGON doesnt to huge damage,mostly single target.
with focused destroyer and destroyer sloted, executioner style , relentless battle fury, diciple of war and the capstone
only from here you get alot of DAMAGE BONUS %
with ROAR havinga DAZE instead of interrupt it will make it more than viable for PVP, the only lack is that it will be squishy.
instigator only gets 50% damage bonus from capstone and +5 % damage from CBA thats all.
he needs exactly what i posted in the #1 post.
stop ****tin the forums with GWF NEEDS REWORK, cuz it doesnt need a rework, small tweaks will suffice .
Dealing DPS to tank is a nonsense. You get that? DPS as a tanking tool?
DPS from AoE utility encounters?
Seriosuly, just put some logic into it.
You have 3 paths. One is tank. One is DPS. One is hybrid.
As a sentinel tank, you are supposed to deal some DPS, not high DPS bursts, and have tools to generate threat and CC mobs to keep them on you and protect the allies. You are not supposed to DPS around.
You want pure DPS, you go destroyer.
You want a balanced mix, you go instigator.
5k damage which benefits from damage boost and can crit? 5k is IBS damage. Plus it's not decreased by the number of targets. You crit for 19k intimidation, it's 19k on each target.
With all damage boosts and vorpal you can get such numbers on a tank path using AoE utility encounters.
Restoring strike, which is boosted in capstone and supposed to be a sentinel main DPS and survivability weapon, is useless right now.
And sentinels can't tank shlt cause DR against piercing damage is useless and end-game mobs in SoT and other dungeons hit hard enough to smash a current sentinel if you get focused by them all (which is what a tank should do).
Sentinels should tank more, protect more, and deal less damage than they do now, with encounters that are designed for DPS and not for utility.
Please, use some logic.
GWF is not a tank! Get this trough your thick skull. He's a hybrid class despite the build. One has superior single target dps, another has good dps + some utility and third has AoE damage and some survivability.
5k damage which benefits from damage boost and blah blah? That is not IBS damage. IBS damage is equal to intimidation damage with ~12k power. But then again, IBS deals 50% less damage than a instigator or destroyer and that's only considering the capstone feats.
And restoring strike is not useless. I often slot it for PvP as a third encounter and PvE when my group lacks a decent tank/healer.
i use RESTORING STRIKE IN MY ROTATION AND I HIT 28K BIS HR.
i think the problem you are still playin OLD SCHOOL encounters
takedown/FLS/IBS and never gaved a chance to GOOD restoring strike to see how it does. but then again that is my build.
No. You don't even get it do you. 350% weapon damage with an orange legendary weapon would equal to 860~1051*3.5=3010~3678,5 base damage, sure. But now consider that PvP GWFs stack 12-13k power, 14k with buffs, and with the current 35%ofpower formula GWF can reach a whooping 4900 base damage for intimidation! And it doesn't have min damage, it does max all the time. So now take a look at this comparison table:
350% of weapon damage:
at 3k power (fresh lvl 60 ppl with tier1 pvp weapon):752~919*3.5*1.18(power modifier)=3106~3795 damage
at 5k power (average lvl 60 gwf with a legendary weapon): 860~1051*3.5*1.3=3913~4782 damage
at 12k power (BiS lvl 60 gwfs with all legendaries w/o buffs): 860~1051*3.5*1.72= 5177~6327 damage
at 14k power (BiS lvl 60 gwfs with all legendaries with buffs): 860~1051*3.5*1.84= 5538~6768 damage
35% power as damage (currently):
at 3k power (fresh lvl 60 ppl with tier1 pvp weapon):3000*0.35*1.18=1239 damage
at 5k power (average lvl 60 gwf with a legendary weapon):5000*0.35*1.3=2275
at 12k power (BiS lvl 60 gwfs with all legendaries w/o buffs):12000*0.35*1.72=7224 damage
at 14k power (BiS lvl 60 gwfs with all legendaries with buffs):14000*0.35*1.84=9016 damage
Now do you see? The 350% weapon damage suggestion is good for 2 things:
Does not restrict the use of intimidation to rich l33t players
Doesn't deal insane damage with l33t gears
It's for the better good.
gonna qoute this again, cuz people tend to not read .
the idea is to give CAGI/DARING SHOUT utility, read #1 post and whats in BOLD near DS/CAGI
and take away the burst damage.
a) remove marks and buff gwf base damage by 50~100%, adjust stuff like Destro/Insti capstone from there, reduce intimidation damage and boost threat(weapon damage seems nice option) + roll back at least determination gain changes, though unstoppable DR should be buffed for dps specs too, remove piercing damage from game
b) leave mark, add some way for SM to mark, maybe replace WMS effect with mark - IV mark on TR would be better for PvP cause of gap closer, SM would be the pve choice. buff GWF damage base by at least 20%, reduce intimidation damage and boost threat(weapon damage seems nice option) + roll back at least determination gain changes, though unstoppable DR should be buffed for dps specs too, remove piercing damage from game
c) introduce an awesome DPS paladin on mod6, remove piercing damage from game
i use RESTORING STRIKE IN MY ROTATION AND I HIT 28K BIS HR.
i think the problem you are still playin OLD SCHOOL encounters
takedown/FLS/IBS and never gaved a chance to GOOD restoring strike to see how it does. but then again that is my build.
Your supposition is totally wrong. I use RS too in my rotation. I'm not a "old school" GWF. That's not the point. The point is intimidation sentinels don't use it but use instead FLS CAGI and DS. So RS is not a primary choice for sentinel atm due to CAGI and DS dealing too much damage for a couple of AoE utility encounters.
RS is feated in capstone with sentinel aegis. It should be a clear primary encounter for a sentinel, and it is not.
And i didn't say GWF is a tank class. I said sentinel path is a tank path. I play Tiamat regulary also. And when you are defending Linu the number of adds is not 5, but around 10 or so. Now imagine a sentinel being able to pull all these mobs on top of himself and hitting them with a 3-cap AoE RS. I think it's more fitting the role of a sentinel than a monster AoE damage given by intimidation.
I understand quite well, and stated it myself, that sentinels need to still deal some damage. But when in PvP is see a inti sentinel with 12k power taking away 35k of my total HPs with a couple of AoE utility encounters and a feat, it's quite clear that something is wrong to me.
I believe that a part of those DPS must be removed from intimidation and moved to restoring strike cause that is the sentinel signature move, feated in capstone, providing damage AND self healing.
As i said, how much damage each power must deal is only a rough indication and can be tweaked, but the main point is that CAGI and DS cannot be the main source of DPS. Restoring strike should be, at least in single target PvP gameplay.
The 50% DPS boost from capstone is exactly the difference that there must be between sentinels and DPS paths.
Sentinels have a huge boost in survivability on capstone compared to destro and instigator. It's only fair that it must hit for fat less in PvP. And it's not like that now, cause at BiS level intimidation hits like a truck, nullifying most of the supposed advantage in DPS on destroyer and instigator when dealing single target burst.
On the other side, a sentinel can't tank enough imho and that's why i thing daring shout should grand 1s immunity per enemy around the GWF, to allow a sentinel to "burst tank" but still be killable in 1v1.
Intimidation, from my point of view, is not supposed to be the main source of damage. It's supposed to be a help, some added DPS when you use the utility encounters. Right now, you slot the utility encounters to deal more DPS. Which is nonsense to me.
I do agree with most changes proposed in this thread but i believe that intimidation cannot be a main source of DPS. I see more fitting a Restoring strike hitting 3-5 targets in PvE, with a damage buff, dealing AoE damage and more self healing. On sentinels, that is. Intimidation should ADD dps to the DPS you deal with the main DPS encounters like RS, when a sentinel uses CAGI and DS to tank and protect the group.
gonna qoute this again, cuz people tend to not read .
the idea is to give CAGI/DARING SHOUT utility, read #1 post and whats in BOLD near DS/CAGI
and take away the burst damage.
CAGI needs to pull mobs and enemies exactly on top of the GWF. In PvE i used CAGI for a long time before intimidation became popular and it was quite rewarding, before unstoppable nerf, to "pull" mobs away from your mates when they were being pressured. I'd buff it further in utility and make it drag the mob/ enemy on top of the GWF and stun shortly the target to allow the GWF to deal DPS with RS or IBS buffed by CAGI. That's how it should work imho.
DR became quite useless with piercing damage, os if piercing damaga and current DPS has to stay, i think sentinels should get the proposed change to DS, giving 1s immunity to damage for each enemy you're fighting. So 1v3 you get 3s immunity during daring shout, 5s vs 5 enemies and this way you can tank some. In between DS you must avoid CC with sprint and tank some with unstoppable, but enemies have 8-9 seconds to burst you.
The idea is not to make GWF sentinel a tank, but more like a burst tank the way it was before piercing damage and determination gain nerf were introduced. Right now imho even sentinels go down too fast in PvP and cannot quite tank the damage in end game dungeons such as ESoT, ELoL or Tiamat, if focused by a whole crowd of mobs.
Your supposition is totally wrong. I use RS too in my rotation. I'm not a "old school" GWF. That's not the point. The point is intimidation sentinels don't use it but use instead FLS CAGI and DS. So RS is not a primary choice for sentinel atm due to CAGI and DS dealing too much damage for a couple of AoE utility encounters.
RS is feated in capstone with sentinel aegis. It should be a clear primary encounter for a sentinel, and it is not.
The reasons for ppl not slotting RS in PvP is not because it's a bad encounter. It's a great encounter but in PvP it's useless with our useless CC powers and healing depression. Sure, increasing its damage would be nice but I'd rather it had cone AoE. That would fit the off-tank role of sentinel.
And i didn't say GWF is a tank class. I said sentinel path is a tank path. I play Tiamat regulary also. And when you are defending Linu the number of adds is not 5, but around 10 or so. Now imagine a sentinel being able to pull all these mobs on top of himself and hitting them with a 3-cap AoE RS. I think it's more fitting the role of a sentinel than a monster AoE damage given by intimidation.
If you played Tiamat enough, you'd realize that mobs spawn in groups of 5. The only reason you can see more than 5 in one place is when someone screws up. I wouldn't base a power on the chance that someone will screw up.
I understand quite well, and stated it myself, that sentinels need to still deal some damage. But when in PvP is see a inti sentinel with 12k power taking away 35k of my total HPs with a couple of AoE utility encounters and a feat, it's quite clear that something is wrong to me.
I believe that a part of those DPS must be removed from intimidation and moved to restoring strike cause that is the sentinel signature move, feated in capstone, providing damage AND self healing.
And we covered the problem of high power by suggesting intimidation damage to be based on 350% weapon damage. 300% was my initial suggestion and even 250% would be ok if other GWF issues were addressed. But definitely NOT 250% WITHOUT CRIT as you suggest. That would be the same as non-crit FLS with the same cooldown. So please, don't take away our crits, ok?
As i said, how much damage each power must deal is only a rough indication and can be tweaked, but the main point is that CAGI and DS cannot be the main source of DPS. Restoring strike should be, at least in single target PvP gameplay.
Intimidation should be the main source of AoE dps but not for single target, yes. And that is true for power values bellow 12k. At 12k power and higher intimidation damage becomes higher than IBS and that's the problem. Which we are addressing.
The 50% DPS boost from capstone is exactly the difference that there must be between sentinels and DPS paths.
Sentinels have a huge boost in survivability on capstone compared to destro and instigator. It's only fair that it must hit for fat less in PvP. And it's not like that now, cause at BiS level intimidation hits like a truck, nullifying most of the supposed advantage in DPS on destroyer and instigator when dealing single target burst.
And the difference is clearly felt in single target dps. You should try comparing actual data from when you fight trash mobs and then boss, you would see that destroyer does 50%+ more damage in single target damage, not the other way around. I've had a good share of epic SoT runs where I'd have to battle for threat against destroyer GWFs who were similarly geared. Just because you find a huge number in paingiver tab from sentinels it doesn't mean that they do better damage against single targets.
On the other side, a sentinel can't tank enough imho and that's why i thing daring shout should grand 1s immunity per enemy around the GWF, to allow a sentinel to "burst tank" but still be killable in 1v1.
On that I agree. Sentinel can't tank enough against mobs that hit for 15k damage per hit (after mitigation). But I'm not sure about your suggestion to DS. I'd rather have CAGI daze for 3 seconds and DS increase DR for a bit more and a bit longer than it does now. Range could also be increased to 30', up from 20'.
Intimidation, from my point of view, is not supposed to be the main source of damage. It's supposed to be a help, some added DPS when you use the utility encounters. Right now, you slot the utility encounters to deal more DPS. Which is nonsense to me.
I do agree with most changes proposed in this thread but i believe that intimidation cannot be a main source of DPS. I see more fitting a Restoring strike hitting 3-5 targets in PvE, with a damage buff, dealing AoE damage and more self healing. On sentinels, that is. Intimidation should ADD dps to the DPS you deal with the main DPS encounters like RS, when a sentinel uses CAGI and DS to tank and protect the group.
Tell me, how would 2.5k base non crit damage that you suggest add any DPS? It would only take away. Intimidation should not be the main single target dps tool, we agree on that. However, it should still do more damage than other AoE encounters as you feat for it. Now take a look at our other AoE encounters:
Not So Fast - 1839~2207, personal 13' (!), 5 target cap
Mighty Leap - 1594~1913, 12' burst, no target cap
Roar - 1533~1839, 30' cone, 5 target cap
FLS - 2232~2679, 30', 5 target cap
Punishing Charge - 919~1103, 25' cone, no target cap
Do you really want to take away crit from intimidation and make it hit as poor as these sad, very sad encounters? My lvl 30 TR deals more AoE damage with a daze from stealth than I do with any of these.
The idea is not to make GWF sentinel a tank, but more like a burst tank the way it was before piercing damage and determination gain nerf were introduced. Right now imho even sentinels go down too fast in PvP and cannot quite tank the damage in end game dungeons such as ESoT, ELoL or Tiamat, if focused by a whole crowd of mobs.
Sure, GWF needs survivability but not for the sake of stripping him off any damage and making him a GF with a sprint instead of block and damage that of a toddler. I'd rather quit than play a disguised GF.
Currently, a 9k power GWF already does 50%-100% less damage than any other dps class with the same gear and that's where I'd want the base damage to stay. Not more, not less. As for the survivability, it needs to improve.
I think in the end we were saying pretty much the same thing. My bad cause i came up with random numbers to give a rough idea, didn't know if they were balanced in the end, was just theorycrafting. That's why i said it needed balancing.
If you say crit is necessary to keep a decent damage i believe you. In the end i thought increasing target cap was better than keeping crit but your analysis about Tiamat encounter is pretty accurate, i never noticed the piling up of mobs was a result of people failing at killing them fast. Thought it was working with small groups on the 2 priests to the side and more adds on Linu in the center.
RS hitting on a cone for sentinels sounds quite good to me too.
DS immunity is for PvP mainly, where DR does not enough imho. I took the idea from current empowered astral shield mechanic. Thought that while a GF can block for long times and empowered AS allows a DC to tank, immunity bursts could allow a sentinel to survive without being OP.
man.
the utility CAGI/DARING SHOUT can get to allies is not stealing from GF,
cagi already gives a 20% damage buff
and Daring Shout already give some DR % buff
but i want this buff to be applied to allies, thats the utility it's missing.
nothing is stolen from GF.
and check zveris post and see what i meant by lowering the base damage of intimidation and stop sayin that i want both tankyness and DPS on a tankyness tree.
First of all Cryptic should have never have split the Fighter Class in to 2 sub classes for this game. The Fighter Class should have had 2 paths, DPS (Sword Master) and Sword-n-Board (Iron VanGuard). NO where in this game is an off tank needed or wanted anymore in PVE. When the game launched an off tank was nice in a couple dungeons but with the way the game has progressed with things like Life Steal and Artifacts every class can off tank if needed (I do not know where that would be at this point). Sentinel build as intended is useless in PVE and should not do anywhere near the damage as Destroyer but yet it does with Intimidation.
A toon with a 2h sword, axe, or hammer should hit hard and do copious amounts of damage. A toon with a sword and shield should take copious amounts of damage.
All the new content added after CN requires no real thought or group mechanics to complete. You need no tank or healer to complete 99% of the game content. Does anyone really care what classes make up a five man dungeon anymore? All the classes roles have become blurred and the game has evolved into one big zerg-fest (see Tiamat).
PvP in this game is down right boring, seriously 2 maps for Domination, ring around the rosie GG, IWD snoozefest. No matter what changes are made 2 classes always dominate so every PvPer makes a halfling flavor of the month OP class toon and the other classes whine how OP those 2 classes are until the next nerf.
Want to make this game incredibly fun again? Get rid of life steal and tenacity then you will need classes to fill roles (healers, tanks, controllers, and dps) with tenacity gone players twitch skills become more important. For the love of god remove halfling racial bonus so all toons in PvP are not halflings.
DnD and Forgotten Realms have an incredible amount of lore and classes that this game should never become so stale as it has.
but what can i expect from people that want to outdamage SW in PVE even thou SW is bugged, they only want more damage, even thou the content can be soloed by a 17k gwf. geezas.
stop wanting more DPS, its enough as it is in game.
just ask and whine on nerfing other classes.
in matter of FEATS GWF is the most balanced one.
if you want someth, just beg for PVE SET REWORKS.
beside AVATAR/FABLED we need other usefull sets.
Frontline Surge CD should be lowered to 10 sec right now its laughable 2k dmg with 17 sec cd.
indeed the 17s cooldown its alot with that low damage.
maybe it should deal more damage when it hits 1 target and when it hits 2 or more targets the damage should be divided.
100% crit chance for all skills while Unstoppable is active :P plus daily that makes me immune and resets all my cds.
100% crit chance, combat advantage, improved skills and a ton of feats affecting unstoppable. Plox. I want perma unstoppable too.
On a serious note, it makes me wonder why TR and DC have improved skills when they're in stealth/divine mode as well as other perks like the ones I mentioned above, while GWF's unstoppable requires you to lose half HP and only improves DR, adds some meaningless affected by HD temporary points and adds at-will attack speed. If our at-wills would hit like a truck then it would make sense. But they hit like a wet noodle.
Ok guy i heard your requestes
So now savage advantage reset your cooldowns, to give you this feat you take back intimidation.
Now unstoppable grants 100 per cent crit but it depletes on encounter use and at wills.
Being striked while recharging unstoppable deplete unstoppable of course like a true TR!
Stuns are now changed to dazes, enemy can now move.
Hope you enjoy it
Forgot about shadow-unstoppable for the fairness.
Frontline surge is now replaced by shadow unstoppable which refills your.instoppable but does 420 damage single target
And now comes the best part: every time you strike while in unstoppable you are CCable for 2 seconds
Ok guy i heard your requestes
So now savage advantage reset your cooldowns, to give you this feat you take back intimidation.
Now unstoppable grants 100 per cent crit but it depletes on encounter use and at wills.
Being striked while recharging unstoppable deplete unstoppable of course like a true TR!
Stuns are now changed to dazes, enemy can now move.
Hope you enjoy it
1. All TR encounters hit harder than intimidation does.
2. Unstoppable already decreases much faster than stealth and requires you to lose half your hp to use. All TR needs to do is dodge a few times and he's back in stealth.
3. Ustoppable does the complete opposite from stealth. You need to get hit to enter unstoppable. Don't get hit and you never will.
4. Please change my 2 s stuns that get deflected and resisted to as low as 0.1s to 2.5-6s long dazes that are not affected by deflection and possibly tenacity!
Now go back to your cave and let us talk about our crappy GWF without TRs there to disturb the tranquilty of raging fighters. Kthxbye
1. All TR encounters hit harder than intimidation does.
2. Unstoppable already decreases much faster than stealth and requires you to lose half your hp to use. All TR needs to do is dodge a few times and he's back in stealth.
3. Ustoppable does the complete opposite from stealth. You need to get hit to enter unstoppable. Don't get hit and you never will.
4. Please change my 2 s stuns that get deflected and resisted to as low as 0.1s to 2.5-6s long dazes that are not affected by deflection and possibly tenacity!
Now go back to your cave and let us talk about our crappy GWF without TRs there to disturb the tranquilty of raging fighters. Kthxbye
make it 6 sec cd pls and make it ignore tenacity, also 100% crit too.
Considering the stun is often deflected to nothingness by TRs and HRs thanks to deflect halving it and tenacity doing the rest?
Considering a 100% crit chance on a 2k encounter means an amazing 4k damage?
Would honestly still be less OP than many other things we have now in PvP, if you make it respect tenacity. Right now FLS is a 17s CD encounter which is nullified 8 times out of 10 against HRs/ TRs and high deflect builds in general. Nullified. And is the only real move allowing non-intimidation GWFs to land their IBS.
The Unstoppable vs stealth argument is quite nonsense imho for the simple reason that they work quite differently.
A TR will argue that stealth depletes with encounters and is nullified for 2s upon hitting. A GWF would argue that Unstoppable requires you to lose lots of HP to activate and depletes at 12% per second speed.
What can be compared are encounters. FLS is on a 17s cooldown and hits for almost nothing unless you are an instigator with capstone active at 4 stacks. Even so, it does not hit that hard compared to most encounters from other classes.
And the stun is often nullified on TRs/ HRs.
I would just ask for deflection to do not influence CC duration. It makes no sense and expecially now that tenacity got a buff, it nullifies the only CC GWFs have. With our main encounter, IBS, requiring CC to land.
Non-intimidation GWFs need that stun. Plain and simple. It's vital. Being an Instigator fighting dodging DPS classes, when you land FLS through the enemy dodges you NEED it to work to land IBS at least. If it is nullified by deflection it means the GWF cannot deal damage with his rotation and must wait 17s to try and land IBS again.
It's absurd, unfair and nonsense. If i catch you with my CC, tenacity, oghma artifact and CC resist must be the only things reducing it, while still allowing me to land my IBS.
So either reduce CD to 6 seconds or fix deflection reducing CC duration by half. Else you get a low DPS CC move that is easily nullified and requires a 17s CD to reactivate.
It's not arguable that it's not balanced this way.
So you either:
Double stun duration on Instigators and Destroyers
OR
Make CC duration influenced only by tenacity, CCresist and Oghma artifact power
OR
Decrease cooldown to 6 seconds so that at least we can spam it and have a decent chance to actually stun the opponent and land our rotation
Would love to see other classes fighting with a 20% chance to land your rotation every 17s (Instigator fighting with FLS-IBS-RS rotation vs HRs or TRs or high deflect builds in general).
it's weird, i can catch them fine and ibs them without them being necesarly stunned.
either way.
i think the #1 post will improve GWF in PVP. and give him more ways / types of fighting.
Comments
After all, sentinel is an off-tank, he needs to deal AoE damage to keep adds off main tank or other team members. Intimidation was a good move towards making this role possible, although threat generation is still lacking/bugged.
It never was a WAI build. It existed for a long time as a secret, hidden build, everyone using it knew it was an exploit. Later it emerged and became widely known b/c it was the only way to deliver some damage at all. It happens to be the most damaging rotation, but it's still a side effect. It's like there is a hidden code sequence, or forgotten bug, that make the GF hit for 100k if he jumps twice and then drinks a tidespan potion.
It works as intended. Devs stated that it's a great tanking tool and it benefits from all the damage bonuses. How is that not WAI to you? And secret build? What the hell are you talking about? Before the change in late mod 4, intimidation dealt a 50% power as piercing damage but it did not benefit from any bonuses. 10k power meant a fixed 5k damage. Nothing life threatening from encounters with such a long cooldown.
GWF was intended to be AoE dps/off-tank class from the get-go. And intimidation, although not perfectly balanced, is a good move towards that.
Did you even read my post.
I didn't remove intimidation.
I decreased the damage per target and increased the target cap.
This way a sentinel can deal some AoE DPS (2.5k on 10 or 15 mobs is 25k damage to 35-40k damage in AoE depending on the number of mobs).
But this way you can't use the 2 encounters to deal single target burst the way it is now or massive AoE DPS that rivals a DPS path.
And if you do not understand why it's idiotic to make a tank path deal huge DPS bursts through AoE utility encounters stacking power and a feat, then there's nothing else i can explain to you.
Also, to clarify: you are not supposed to deal high AoE DPS with a sentinel. You want AoE huge numbers or DPS huge numbers in general ,you go destroyer or instigator. If you go down the tank path, DPS is not your top priority. So you should be right between a GF and a destroyer.
SENTINEL IS A TANK PATH NOT A DPS PATH.
You want to grab aggor, you do it through threat, you want to pull mobs off your team mates, you do it through CAGI pull.
Not through damage.
Sentinel is not an off-tank right now. The changes i proposed are exactly to make it a more reliable tank and get rid of the stupid damage you deal now.
Cause it's stupid to have a tank path dealing huge AoE DPS bursts or single target DPS bursts with 2 utility encounters and a feat.
Sentinels are supposed to survive a lot and deal SOME DPS, not high DPS. If you want DPS, you go down a DPS path.
What you should get with sentinel is DECENT DPS, TOP SURVIVABILITY and good utility/ ability to DEFEND. If you link defensive capability to DPS you're going down the wrong road and it should be quite obvious why.
It's not rocket science.
About GWF runner: it does not run faster. It runs more. To start. It's linked to stamina.
Second: it does not break the balance cause as a destroyer runner you are squishy, and you are forced to use takedown which is a melee range power. If you use FLS, you have a 17s gap you cannot afford as a destroyer in PvP, and in PvE you would run half of the time dealing no DPS.
The "but you wear chain mail you should not run fast" argument is quite stupid too for the simple reason that we are talking about a fantasy world where mages can teleport, warlocks can zoom around and dragons fly in the sky.
We are talking from a pure practical and gameplay point of view. And from a gameplay point of view it makes perfectly sense that a squishy spec is able to feat for high mobility and non-ranged combat. What would you do if the GWF was slow? You would hit thin air in PvP and never catch a fly.
GWF DPS can either go with FLS which is ranged AoE and reduces the need to run around too much, or can use battle fury as a sprinter, give up 1 DPS encounter and be limited to BF-Takedown-IBS mechanic which is hard as hell to play in PvP and not useful in PvE.
You guys have no clue about what you talk about. I am sorry but if you come up with a intimidation vs battle fury comparison, that's all i can say to you. And i can't explain each and every time how a sprinter is not a magical unicorn that can sprint forever and keep all the advantages.
It's a meh spec that gives much more mobility and CC immunity, at the cost of less DPS and melee range combat limitation, along with squishyness of a destroyer spec.
Intimidation sentinel is a full tank path that fails at tanking (sentinels still die faster than other classes in PvP and fail at tanking in PvE) and excels at DPS using 2 utility AoE encounters and a feat.
What i proposed is to make sentinels deal decent but not great DPS as they should do, but tank way more in both PvP and PvE while being able to truly protect team mates.
My problem with intimidation is that you have a tank spec going PvP and dealing single target DPS with a couple of AoE utility encounters centered on the player, and a feat. While still not being able to truly tank or protect anything.
CAGI must allow the GWF to pull all enemies on top of him, taking them away from allies. And power up the GWF for the following attack.
DS must allow the GWF to tank more, produce enough threat and mark.
The feat must add "some" damage to the utility, not a ton of damage or burst damage that can rival DPS encounters.
Restoring strike should be the DPS weapon of a sentinel, linked to self healing return to boost the main feature of the path: survivability.
For a sentinel it is Survivability> protection> DPS
For a desroyer it is DPS> Seuvivability> protection
For a instigator it should be DPS=survivability=protection
that's how the 3 features are supposed to work, by definition of the class and paths, and PURE LOGIC.
Also, by pure logic, you deal single target DPS or AoE DPS through single target or AoE DPS encounters. Not through AoE utility encounters.
Dealing DPS to tank is a nonsense. You get that? DPS as a tanking tool?
DPS from AoE utility encounters?
Seriosuly, just put some logic into it.
You have 3 paths. One is tank. One is DPS. One is hybrid.
As a sentinel tank, you are supposed to deal some DPS, not high DPS bursts, and have tools to generate threat and CC mobs to keep them on you and protect the allies. You are not supposed to DPS around.
You want pure DPS, you go destroyer.
You want a balanced mix, you go instigator.
5k damage which benefits from damage boost and can crit? 5k is IBS damage. Plus it's not decreased by the number of targets. You crit for 19k intimidation, it's 19k on each target.
With all damage boosts and vorpal you can get such numbers on a tank path using AoE utility encounters.
Restoring strike, which is boosted in capstone and supposed to be a sentinel main DPS and survivability weapon, is useless right now.
And sentinels can't tank shlt cause DR against piercing damage is useless and end-game mobs in SoT and other dungeons hit hard enough to smash a current sentinel if you get focused by them all (which is what a tank should do).
Sentinels should tank more, protect more, and deal less damage than they do now, with encounters that are designed for DPS and not for utility.
Please, use some logic.
If you actually played a sentinel, you'd notice that it's nearly impossible to deal more than half the damage of DPS classes at ~10k power and only at 12k+ power does the sentinel becomes a dps class but even then he's beyond in single target damage. And the base damage at ~10k power is where effectenstein and me are aiming to put a halt on.
Your suggestion to reduce cagi/daring shout damage to nothingness and increasing target count is clueless as well. It's obvious by now that you play little of PvE. The latest content does not have more than 5 targets per mob at any given time. And they're tough as hell. Increasing it further down would only make old content easier but then again, it can hardly get easier than it already is.
Moreover, your suggestion for no crit on intimidation would also render crit rate, crit severity, vorpal enchantment and weapon master strike feature a complete waste for sentinels as 2 out of 3 encounters would be crit-less. Do you really want to remove the feature GWF is recognized by? Please don't.
Also, you're forgetting GWF is primary a DPS class and only secondary tank. And in case of Sentinel, he HAS to deal much more damage than tank/support classes but a lot less than primary dps classes. As well as he should have a much better survivability than dps classes but much worse than main tank.
I'd suggest you use logic yourself. Because you're holding a grudge against sentinels for whatever reason.
just check again the #1 post, that will make the SENTINEL to LOSE SOME DAMAGE BURST and the changes on DS/CAGI that are in BOLD will give some utility.
listen, when DROW set will be released everyone will take it.
that set offers 9.5% deflect
we pick the DESTROYER SET cuz thats the best one from all of them.
you get 2.3k deflect hitin the cap.
that means with bravery slotted you have 40% + 9.5% + 2% bravery offhand
over 50% or almost 50% deflect chance, with weapon master you get 10% more = 60% , isn't that enough for tankyness? with 40%-80% DR .
so the only way to achieve this in PVP
si to remove 35% out of POWER.
and put 350% out of weapon damage or even 300% out of weapon damage. it can be nerfed afterwards if its too OP.
what GWF will need? is the utility on both CAGI/DS
check the first post.
check zveris post were he's done the MATH on how much damage.
keep in mind right now BIS GWF has 14k power in PVP = 4.600 damage X over 80% DAMAGE BONUS and over 140% crit severity.
i took in consideration everything before i've done the first post .
so far none of you brought someth that would help the GWF on each paragon, only to make him STRONGER STRONGER to be OP.
this is not my intention.
you must be insane to say that DESTROYER PARAGON doesnt to huge damage,mostly single target.
with focused destroyer and destroyer sloted, executioner style , relentless battle fury, diciple of war and the capstone
only from here you get alot of DAMAGE BONUS %
with ROAR havinga DAZE instead of interrupt it will make it more than viable for PVP, the only lack is that it will be squishy.
instigator only gets 50% damage bonus from capstone and +5 % damage from CBA thats all.
he needs exactly what i posted in the #1 post.
stop ****tin the forums with GWF NEEDS REWORK, cuz it doesnt need a rework, small tweaks will suffice .
GWF is not a tank! Get this trough your thick skull. He's a hybrid class despite the build. One has superior single target dps, another has good dps + some utility and third has AoE damage and some survivability.
5k damage which benefits from damage boost and blah blah? That is not IBS damage. IBS damage is equal to intimidation damage with ~12k power. But then again, IBS deals 50% less damage than a instigator or destroyer and that's only considering the capstone feats.
And restoring strike is not useless. I often slot it for PvP as a third encounter and PvE when my group lacks a decent tank/healer.
Fixed for you.
i think the problem you are still playin OLD SCHOOL encounters
takedown/FLS/IBS and never gaved a chance to GOOD restoring strike to see how it does. but then again that is my build.
gonna qoute this again, cuz people tend to not read .
the idea is to give CAGI/DARING SHOUT utility, read #1 post and whats in BOLD near DS/CAGI
and take away the burst damage.
b) leave mark, add some way for SM to mark, maybe replace WMS effect with mark - IV mark on TR would be better for PvP cause of gap closer, SM would be the pve choice. buff GWF damage base by at least 20%, reduce intimidation damage and boost threat(weapon damage seems nice option) + roll back at least determination gain changes, though unstoppable DR should be buffed for dps specs too, remove piercing damage from game
c) introduce an awesome DPS paladin on mod6, remove piercing damage from game
Your supposition is totally wrong. I use RS too in my rotation. I'm not a "old school" GWF. That's not the point. The point is intimidation sentinels don't use it but use instead FLS CAGI and DS. So RS is not a primary choice for sentinel atm due to CAGI and DS dealing too much damage for a couple of AoE utility encounters.
RS is feated in capstone with sentinel aegis. It should be a clear primary encounter for a sentinel, and it is not.
And i didn't say GWF is a tank class. I said sentinel path is a tank path. I play Tiamat regulary also. And when you are defending Linu the number of adds is not 5, but around 10 or so. Now imagine a sentinel being able to pull all these mobs on top of himself and hitting them with a 3-cap AoE RS. I think it's more fitting the role of a sentinel than a monster AoE damage given by intimidation.
I understand quite well, and stated it myself, that sentinels need to still deal some damage. But when in PvP is see a inti sentinel with 12k power taking away 35k of my total HPs with a couple of AoE utility encounters and a feat, it's quite clear that something is wrong to me.
I believe that a part of those DPS must be removed from intimidation and moved to restoring strike cause that is the sentinel signature move, feated in capstone, providing damage AND self healing.
As i said, how much damage each power must deal is only a rough indication and can be tweaked, but the main point is that CAGI and DS cannot be the main source of DPS. Restoring strike should be, at least in single target PvP gameplay.
The 50% DPS boost from capstone is exactly the difference that there must be between sentinels and DPS paths.
Sentinels have a huge boost in survivability on capstone compared to destro and instigator. It's only fair that it must hit for fat less in PvP. And it's not like that now, cause at BiS level intimidation hits like a truck, nullifying most of the supposed advantage in DPS on destroyer and instigator when dealing single target burst.
On the other side, a sentinel can't tank enough imho and that's why i thing daring shout should grand 1s immunity per enemy around the GWF, to allow a sentinel to "burst tank" but still be killable in 1v1.
Intimidation, from my point of view, is not supposed to be the main source of damage. It's supposed to be a help, some added DPS when you use the utility encounters. Right now, you slot the utility encounters to deal more DPS. Which is nonsense to me.
I do agree with most changes proposed in this thread but i believe that intimidation cannot be a main source of DPS. I see more fitting a Restoring strike hitting 3-5 targets in PvE, with a damage buff, dealing AoE damage and more self healing. On sentinels, that is. Intimidation should ADD dps to the DPS you deal with the main DPS encounters like RS, when a sentinel uses CAGI and DS to tank and protect the group.
CAGI needs to pull mobs and enemies exactly on top of the GWF. In PvE i used CAGI for a long time before intimidation became popular and it was quite rewarding, before unstoppable nerf, to "pull" mobs away from your mates when they were being pressured. I'd buff it further in utility and make it drag the mob/ enemy on top of the GWF and stun shortly the target to allow the GWF to deal DPS with RS or IBS buffed by CAGI. That's how it should work imho.
DR became quite useless with piercing damage, os if piercing damaga and current DPS has to stay, i think sentinels should get the proposed change to DS, giving 1s immunity to damage for each enemy you're fighting. So 1v3 you get 3s immunity during daring shout, 5s vs 5 enemies and this way you can tank some. In between DS you must avoid CC with sprint and tank some with unstoppable, but enemies have 8-9 seconds to burst you.
The idea is not to make GWF sentinel a tank, but more like a burst tank the way it was before piercing damage and determination gain nerf were introduced. Right now imho even sentinels go down too fast in PvP and cannot quite tank the damage in end game dungeons such as ESoT, ELoL or Tiamat, if focused by a whole crowd of mobs.
If you played Tiamat enough, you'd realize that mobs spawn in groups of 5. The only reason you can see more than 5 in one place is when someone screws up. I wouldn't base a power on the chance that someone will screw up.
And we covered the problem of high power by suggesting intimidation damage to be based on 350% weapon damage. 300% was my initial suggestion and even 250% would be ok if other GWF issues were addressed. But definitely NOT 250% WITHOUT CRIT as you suggest. That would be the same as non-crit FLS with the same cooldown. So please, don't take away our crits, ok?
Intimidation should be the main source of AoE dps but not for single target, yes. And that is true for power values bellow 12k. At 12k power and higher intimidation damage becomes higher than IBS and that's the problem. Which we are addressing.
And the difference is clearly felt in single target dps. You should try comparing actual data from when you fight trash mobs and then boss, you would see that destroyer does 50%+ more damage in single target damage, not the other way around. I've had a good share of epic SoT runs where I'd have to battle for threat against destroyer GWFs who were similarly geared. Just because you find a huge number in paingiver tab from sentinels it doesn't mean that they do better damage against single targets.
On that I agree. Sentinel can't tank enough against mobs that hit for 15k damage per hit (after mitigation). But I'm not sure about your suggestion to DS. I'd rather have CAGI daze for 3 seconds and DS increase DR for a bit more and a bit longer than it does now. Range could also be increased to 30', up from 20'.
Tell me, how would 2.5k base non crit damage that you suggest add any DPS? It would only take away. Intimidation should not be the main single target dps tool, we agree on that. However, it should still do more damage than other AoE encounters as you feat for it. Now take a look at our other AoE encounters:
@8,700 power, 18 str, orange legendary weapon:
Not So Fast - 1839~2207, personal 13' (!), 5 target cap
Mighty Leap - 1594~1913, 12' burst, no target cap
Roar - 1533~1839, 30' cone, 5 target cap
FLS - 2232~2679, 30', 5 target cap
Punishing Charge - 919~1103, 25' cone, no target cap
Do you really want to take away crit from intimidation and make it hit as poor as these sad, very sad encounters? My lvl 30 TR deals more AoE damage with a daze from stealth than I do with any of these.
Sure, GWF needs survivability but not for the sake of stripping him off any damage and making him a GF with a sprint instead of block and damage that of a toddler. I'd rather quit than play a disguised GF.
Currently, a 9k power GWF already does 50%-100% less damage than any other dps class with the same gear and that's where I'd want the base damage to stay. Not more, not less. As for the survivability, it needs to improve.
If you say crit is necessary to keep a decent damage i believe you. In the end i thought increasing target cap was better than keeping crit but your analysis about Tiamat encounter is pretty accurate, i never noticed the piling up of mobs was a result of people failing at killing them fast. Thought it was working with small groups on the 2 priests to the side and more adds on Linu in the center.
RS hitting on a cone for sentinels sounds quite good to me too.
DS immunity is for PvP mainly, where DR does not enough imho. I took the idea from current empowered astral shield mechanic. Thought that while a GF can block for long times and empowered AS allows a DC to tank, immunity bursts could allow a sentinel to survive without being OP.
A toon with a 2h sword, axe, or hammer should hit hard and do copious amounts of damage. A toon with a sword and shield should take copious amounts of damage.
All the new content added after CN requires no real thought or group mechanics to complete. You need no tank or healer to complete 99% of the game content. Does anyone really care what classes make up a five man dungeon anymore? All the classes roles have become blurred and the game has evolved into one big zerg-fest (see Tiamat).
PvP in this game is down right boring, seriously 2 maps for Domination, ring around the rosie GG, IWD snoozefest. No matter what changes are made 2 classes always dominate so every PvPer makes a halfling flavor of the month OP class toon and the other classes whine how OP those 2 classes are until the next nerf.
Want to make this game incredibly fun again? Get rid of life steal and tenacity then you will need classes to fill roles (healers, tanks, controllers, and dps) with tenacity gone players twitch skills become more important. For the love of god remove halfling racial bonus so all toons in PvP are not halflings.
DnD and Forgotten Realms have an incredible amount of lore and classes that this game should never become so stale as it has.
you are absurd m8
in my #1 post i demand small tweaks not to improve the class to OUT CLASS the others, it's just small tweaks to expose 3 types of fighting.
destroyer = berserker
sentinel = burst/sustainer
instigator = smart play.
but what can i expect from people that want to outdamage SW in PVE even thou SW is bugged, they only want more damage, even thou the content can be soloed by a 17k gwf. geezas.
stop wanting more DPS, its enough as it is in game.
just ask and whine on nerfing other classes.
in matter of FEATS GWF is the most balanced one.
if you want someth, just beg for PVE SET REWORKS.
beside AVATAR/FABLED we need other usefull sets.
indeed the 17s cooldown its alot with that low damage.
maybe it should deal more damage when it hits 1 target and when it hits 2 or more targets the damage should be divided.
100% crit chance for all skills while Unstoppable is active :P plus daily that makes me immune and resets all my cds.
100% crit chance, combat advantage, improved skills and a ton of feats affecting unstoppable. Plox. I want perma unstoppable too.
On a serious note, it makes me wonder why TR and DC have improved skills when they're in stealth/divine mode as well as other perks like the ones I mentioned above, while GWF's unstoppable requires you to lose half HP and only improves DR, adds some meaningless affected by HD temporary points and adds at-will attack speed. If our at-wills would hit like a truck then it would make sense. But they hit like a wet noodle.
So now savage advantage reset your cooldowns, to give you this feat you take back intimidation.
Now unstoppable grants 100 per cent crit but it depletes on encounter use and at wills.
Being striked while recharging unstoppable deplete unstoppable of course like a true TR!
Stuns are now changed to dazes, enemy can now move.
Hope you enjoy it
Frontline surge is now replaced by shadow unstoppable which refills your.instoppable but does 420 damage single target
And now comes the best part: every time you strike while in unstoppable you are CCable for 2 seconds
1. All TR encounters hit harder than intimidation does.
2. Unstoppable already decreases much faster than stealth and requires you to lose half your hp to use. All TR needs to do is dodge a few times and he's back in stealth.
3. Ustoppable does the complete opposite from stealth. You need to get hit to enter unstoppable. Don't get hit and you never will.
4. Please change my 2 s stuns that get deflected and resisted to as low as 0.1s to 2.5-6s long dazes that are not affected by deflection and possibly tenacity!
Now go back to your cave and let us talk about our crappy GWF without TRs there to disturb the tranquilty of raging fighters. Kthxbye
+1
/10chars.
Considering the stun is often deflected to nothingness by TRs and HRs thanks to deflect halving it and tenacity doing the rest?
Considering a 100% crit chance on a 2k encounter means an amazing 4k damage?
Would honestly still be less OP than many other things we have now in PvP, if you make it respect tenacity. Right now FLS is a 17s CD encounter which is nullified 8 times out of 10 against HRs/ TRs and high deflect builds in general. Nullified. And is the only real move allowing non-intimidation GWFs to land their IBS.
The Unstoppable vs stealth argument is quite nonsense imho for the simple reason that they work quite differently.
A TR will argue that stealth depletes with encounters and is nullified for 2s upon hitting. A GWF would argue that Unstoppable requires you to lose lots of HP to activate and depletes at 12% per second speed.
What can be compared are encounters. FLS is on a 17s cooldown and hits for almost nothing unless you are an instigator with capstone active at 4 stacks. Even so, it does not hit that hard compared to most encounters from other classes.
And the stun is often nullified on TRs/ HRs.
I would just ask for deflection to do not influence CC duration. It makes no sense and expecially now that tenacity got a buff, it nullifies the only CC GWFs have. With our main encounter, IBS, requiring CC to land.
Non-intimidation GWFs need that stun. Plain and simple. It's vital. Being an Instigator fighting dodging DPS classes, when you land FLS through the enemy dodges you NEED it to work to land IBS at least. If it is nullified by deflection it means the GWF cannot deal damage with his rotation and must wait 17s to try and land IBS again.
It's absurd, unfair and nonsense. If i catch you with my CC, tenacity, oghma artifact and CC resist must be the only things reducing it, while still allowing me to land my IBS.
So either reduce CD to 6 seconds or fix deflection reducing CC duration by half. Else you get a low DPS CC move that is easily nullified and requires a 17s CD to reactivate.
It's not arguable that it's not balanced this way.
So you either:
Double stun duration on Instigators and Destroyers
OR
Make CC duration influenced only by tenacity, CCresist and Oghma artifact power
OR
Decrease cooldown to 6 seconds so that at least we can spam it and have a decent chance to actually stun the opponent and land our rotation
Would love to see other classes fighting with a 20% chance to land your rotation every 17s (Instigator fighting with FLS-IBS-RS rotation vs HRs or TRs or high deflect builds in general).
either way.
i think the #1 post will improve GWF in PVP. and give him more ways / types of fighting.