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Gwf feedback:
effectenstein
Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
here is another GWF feedback:
SENTINEL:
-INTIMIDATION : Daring Shout and Come and get it now do 100/150/200/250/300/350% of your Weapon damage as damage, and generates twice that value as threat,in addition,affected become intimidated and all of your attacks build 10/20/30/40/50% more threat against them.
-Daring shout:
Release a mighty challenge that marks nearby enemies for a short period,building your Determination for every target it, and increase Damage resistance to you and your nearby allies.
Marked Foes have Reduced Damage Resistance for 3 seconds.
rank 2
Determ: +2%
Buff: +1s
Mark Duration:+1s
Rank 3
Determination: +2%
Buff: +1s
Mark Duration: +1s
Come and Get it: Pull your enemies towards you in a massive area around you, then you and your allies get a flat damage buff to your next attack within 3 seconds.
rank 2:
damage: +10%
rank 3
damage: +10%
Daring Shout and Come And Get It needs 2-3 seconds shorter cooldowns.
Destroyer:
ROAR:Unleash a mighty Battle roar in front of you, dazing and pushin your opponents back, and building Determination for every Target hit.
Rank 2
Damage : 10%
Determination: +2%
rank 3
Damage: 10%
Determination: +2
the Daze should be around 2 second max.
Deep Gash: Your Critical Strikes Cause your Targed to Bleed, Taking 24/28/32/36/40% of your POWER as Damage over 6 seconds.
INSTIGATOR:
Fleet Flooted:
Whenever you control a target you gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% stamina , 10 sec cooldown.
Nimble runner:
Sprint and Punishing Charge grants you 10% more Deflect and 10% more Deflect Severity.
Instigator Vengence: Your Damage is increased by 10%.
This Value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a total maximum bonus of 50%.
Instigator's Vengence Expires after 6 sec of not getting Hit.
Unstopable now grants you 35%-50% damage resistance when you activate.
Class Feats :
SteadFast Determination: Steadily Gain Determination while in Combat. Your Unstopable drains 30% slower.
rank 2
determinattion: 10%
rank 3
Determination: 10%
At wills:
Threating Rush now has 7s charge refill.
Weapon master Strike needs a rework with a faster casting.
dailies:
Slam should do more damage based on the damage bonus
Spining Strike should work more like the the spining strike from the ADDS in epic lostmauth.
Crescendo should have a faster casting time.
SENTINEL:
-INTIMIDATION : Daring Shout and Come and get it now do 100/150/200/250/300/350% of your Weapon damage as damage, and generates twice that value as threat,in addition,affected become intimidated and all of your attacks build 10/20/30/40/50% more threat against them.
-Daring shout:
Release a mighty challenge that marks nearby enemies for a short period,building your Determination for every target it, and increase Damage resistance to you and your nearby allies.
Marked Foes have Reduced Damage Resistance for 3 seconds.
rank 2
Determ: +2%
Buff: +1s
Mark Duration:+1s
Rank 3
Determination: +2%
Buff: +1s
Mark Duration: +1s
Come and Get it: Pull your enemies towards you in a massive area around you, then you and your allies get a flat damage buff to your next attack within 3 seconds.
rank 2:
damage: +10%
rank 3
damage: +10%
Daring Shout and Come And Get It needs 2-3 seconds shorter cooldowns.
Destroyer:
ROAR:Unleash a mighty Battle roar in front of you, dazing and pushin your opponents back, and building Determination for every Target hit.
Rank 2
Damage : 10%
Determination: +2%
rank 3
Damage: 10%
Determination: +2
the Daze should be around 2 second max.
Deep Gash: Your Critical Strikes Cause your Targed to Bleed, Taking 24/28/32/36/40% of your POWER as Damage over 6 seconds.
INSTIGATOR:
Fleet Flooted:
Whenever you control a target you gain an additional 3/6/9/12/15% stamina , 10 sec cooldown.
Nimble runner:
Sprint and Punishing Charge grants you 10% more Deflect and 10% more Deflect Severity.
Instigator Vengence: Your Damage is increased by 10%.
This Value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a total maximum bonus of 50%.
Instigator's Vengence Expires after 6 sec of not getting Hit.
Unstopable now grants you 35%-50% damage resistance when you activate.
Class Feats :
SteadFast Determination: Steadily Gain Determination while in Combat. Your Unstopable drains 30% slower.
rank 2
determinattion: 10%
rank 3
Determination: 10%
At wills:
Threating Rush now has 7s charge refill.
Weapon master Strike needs a rework with a faster casting.
dailies:
Slam should do more damage based on the damage bonus
Spining Strike should work more like the the spining strike from the ADDS in epic lostmauth.
Crescendo should have a faster casting time.
Post edited by effectenstein on
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Comments
also the utility skills, namely Battle Fury, Come and Get it, Daring Shout and Roar to some extent are pretty useless.
lets be honest who the hell would slot Come and Get it without intimidation?
+30% damage to next attack? LULZ. you are wasting an encounter slot just to buff your next attack by 30%??? when you can just slot a damaging encounter, it doesn't even work fully on AOE attacks (try hitting 3 targets with frontline surge or not so fast, you'll see only 1 of those attack has the +30% damage).
10/10 lulz quote from the devs.
lets enumarate the aoe dps powers of GWF.
-not so fast... rofl brah......that slow was really a big help.....NOPE! 4/7 classes can just roll out trololol
-mighty leap..... IMO one of the hardest encounter to land in pvp. and when you're finally able to land it...TROLOLOL less than 3k damage! also the cooldown is longer than not so fast
-roar....really nice... I like the part where I sounded like a Lion... but in reality it hits like a kitten....again the base damage is just lolss
-frontline surge.... decent TBH, BUT, its limited to the Iron Vanguard path. so does that mean ALL of us has to go for the IV path? MEH.
-punishing charge.... 3 charges, with almost the same damage as sure strike. ever got hit by sure strike(1st swing) thrice? how does it feel? ticklish? yep, thats how punishing charge is.
i agree with you on that, or it should be like Crescendo, even if you succed on goin away from the attack, you still get the damage.
and it should have a faster casting or should immobilise the target completly.
i dont agree giving marking ability.
cause the only difference between:
SM and IV is that
1 atwill can mark
and the other one can't (beside one is used as a gap closer)
but faster casting on Weapon master strike would help the atwill. and when i mean faster, alot faster.
you are right that dont have any utility right now .
but in matter of PVP this is how i see it.
Destroyer has a good rotation.
ROAR : dazes, Takedown stuns and IBS is easy to land.
Instigator
FLS/Takedown reffils some stamina back when you controll the target.
10% defl severity while sprinting means someth and in matter of DPS its inferior to Destroyer. but it will be a hybrid. with 35%-50% DR unstopable.
and Sentinel is the one that should have utility.
the Intimidation wont depend on Power, but on Weapon Damage.
and you can bring some utility to ur teammates if DAring/Cagi is changed.
and having a base of 3500 damage i think it will still do some damage and with 2 second shorter cooldowns on both encounters.
and with mighty leap/not so fast/ reaping strike/battle fury/ this aren't reliable in PVP .
punishing charge i would like see it someth like that
when you use it against an enemy you push him and yourself like 20' radius, or someth like that.
its hard to have all encounters good for PVP, but at least make some encounters that are good on certain paragons only.
cagi/daring on sentinel
roar/takedown on destroyer
and on instigator if the fleeflooted is changed you get some stamina refill back so u can get the tankyness through nimble runner and capstone and it wont be a beast like destroyer dps.
Takedown is rly hard to land and does nothing due deflect
IBS- gl landing that with no stun, small area and that long long animation
All the dailies are unusable- savage, crescendo and indomitable strength can be easily dodged/interrupted
Punishing charge gets you stuck in environment
Unstoppable is in reality rly stoppable with pushes
Resto strike is good just doesnt have dmg
Battle fury with all that piercing dmg, yeah lol and again sprint does nothing as you can easily be pushed or outrun.
Trample is useless, Enduring warrior is useless, Steel defence only works from time to time and is unreliable, Steel grace useless, Steel blitz/Ferocious reaction at least they work but they are subpar.
Steadfast determination- is that thing even working?! i mean the gain is so little that it reality does nothing...
Reaping strike - yeah right
Wicked strike - getting you stuck in animation (unusable)
TR- is nice but rubberbanding like hell, half the time i;m bk in the initial spot
Sure strike hits less than regen
WMS - think that is the only decent one for pve
DS/CAGI = 0 without intimidation
Destroyer/Bravery/Weapon master/ Intimidation/FLS are pretty much the only things that are working for GWF atm
ohh yeah made an error: WM and Destroyer do need stacks to work so they are close to being worthless in pvp: mage pushes stacks gone/ dc pushes stacks gone/ TR, HR are in stealth no stacks at all and they can 1 rotate you more or less/ SW can outrun you so no stacks/ GF has prones with shield and target lock so no stacks
and if it will be too much it can be decreased, keep in mind that this is at BIS.
and i want to give some utility on cagi/daring shout, read the bold text near them.
orthzy i think you should stop sayin everythin it's 0 for GWf, cause it isn't.
i am playin GWF and i can easily kill classes (except TR/DC) without the intimidation build
Restoring,Trample,Sure Strike, IBS, Takedown , Savage advance, Crescendo, Indomitable Stregth, they aren't useless and they aren't hard to land, you probably have frame problems or lag idk. but i can land them pretty well.
the changes that i want to see its to make them useful and on par with other classes, not over powered.
as you can see there are small tweaks, that would help the paragon individually.
i know you guys want a intimidation with the capstone from destroyer, but lets be serious.
why would you use CAGI on destroyer paragon?
or roar on sentinel instead of cagi/daring?
thats unresonable.
Destroyer Purpose - now also provides 1% crit chance per stack.
Unstoppable Recovery - heal 20% of total hp over 10 seconds does not stack(means if you are already under healing effect and you use unstoppable the heal ill be not refreshed).
Instigator Vengenance - incrase unstoppable gain from damage taken by 30%.
STR stat now provides 2% damage per point spend.
Remove 2 second delay on GWF stamina regeneration and incrase it regeneration by 25% or else change STR to provide 3-5% stamina regen per point spend.
glad to hear, but not all of us have a good ping, many have above 150-200. I cant stop saying something that is very much the truth for me...
I do not think gwf need to keep stealing mechanic from gfs. Also last i remember iv is suppose to have superior utility than swordmaster. What is wrong with having to get intimidation feat first and then use come and get it and daring shout? last i recall they are the hardest hitting aoes in the game. What is wrong with frontline surge being limited to iron vanguard? If you want something you sacrifice something else. Like i said iv is suppose to have better utility.
Well right now they might as well not exist as they do almost no damage and have no defenses.
but, i only want the Sentinel Paragon to steal the utility from GF
cagi = something like into the fray
daring shout = a DR buff
with shorter cooldowns on encounters and resonable burst damage. and high on defl/defense.
you are HAMSTER wrong.
This is how it is now 35% dout of 14k power is transformed as damage = 4.600 damage multiplied with damage bonus etc.
and if it's 350% out of Weapon damage that means it will be = 3500 damage and it wont vary, do you understand now?
if 350% out of weapon damage is high it can be decreased to 300% or 250% .
the idea is to give some utility to GWF.
and decrease the cooldowns on those 2 encounters making the sentinel to not crit 25-30k with long cooldowns, but max of 10-15k with 2 seconds at least short.
AND LIKE U SAID THEY ARE HARD TO LAND.
there is a difference between copying and stealing (dictionaries help) If i would use your argument should i say "wah waaah Q_Q the SW stole our shift mechanic! Also look at the similarities between SE and anvil of doom.....yeah...so the TRs should say hey you bellends stole our finishing move!
there is nothing wrong with having intimidation to make use of come and get it and daring shout and yes they are hardest aoe hitting in the game. but like I said you are WAY OUT OF THE CONTEXT. what I'm trying to say is come and get it and daring shout are useless without intimidation because of the mediocre utility it offers. context... context.....
nothing wrong. whats wrong is the inferiority of the swordmaster path. again... context... context....
Before all i say that stun should not be subject to deflect so i can reliably use my skills if i;ve landed it similar to classes who do still have prone. I get it that prone is too much since it ignores deflect, but i dont see the reason for a 17 cd stun to be deflected, after that is done they could very well make your changes.
Hit hard would not be absurd for a class that, after all, is in DnD a pure Melee DPS, unlike classes that have other assets as well, range, or stealth, or whatever. Extremely tanky, sorry but I fail to see anyone in this thread asking for that. Dynamic sustain, is what Gwf wants, some ability to remain alive in a fight as long as we hit. Not at all like a tanky class such as a GF, who when attacked by foes can very well go AFK and buy a pack of beer at the gas station and still be alive when back home.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Clearly the devs stealing IV instead of implementing a proper path for Gwf was a major step into the wrong direction.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
THEY ARE BOTH FIGHTER CLASS
they should have both the same path paragons, lol.
orthzy i dont know what you talk about. but the intimidation as it is now its only good in a good party, not goin by urself.
To be fair the problem is that they made two classes that are in fact the same class. The GF should have been a paladin or the GWF should have been a Barbarian.
the instigator needs some buff from feats , the destroyer needs a daze on ROAR.
the sentinel needs utility.
and #1 post can probably bring that for each paragon without breaking the gwf mechanic.
isuuck i still dont see where i demand that sentinel intimidation should be OP .
No. You don't even get it do you. 350% weapon damage with an orange legendary weapon would equal to 860~1051*3.5=3010~3678,5 base damage, sure. But now consider that PvP GWFs stack 12-13k power, 14k with buffs, and with the current 35%ofpower formula GWF can reach a whooping 4900 base damage for intimidation! And it doesn't have min damage, it does max all the time. So now take a look at this comparison table:
350% of weapon damage:
35% power as damage (currently):
Now do you see? The 350% weapon damage suggestion is good for 2 things:
It's for the better good.
EXACTLY
and with 2-3s shorter cooldowns wont make the gwf waiting so long.
and some utility on those DS/CAGI that i wrote on my #1 post wont make the paragon useless.
So no point in stacking power to get more POWERFUL attacks? Sick idea.
NO, AND YES
you can stack power for more damage bonus.
but i think its a good tradeoff of 1.6k base damage for 2s shorter cooldowns and utility on 2 encounters. and this is at BIS.
in pvp you want high burst dmg.
now intimidation is fine
yes and TR are fine with shocking execution ? right?
it will do a little less burst damage, with faster cooldowns and bring utility to the team. its simple.
it will help the PVE GWF aswell
and other new GWF players that start on sentinel paragon.
Don't cut out one suggestion and present it without context. Of course that other changes should be done along with this proposed change to intimidation. Like improving our survivability, powers (at wills especially) and of course, fixing all the piercing damage and CC powers that go trough CC resist.
It is very hard to accuse gf of stealing mechanic from trs seeing as anvil of doom has always been an execution move. It was simply buffed to 40% mod4.
Coping somethings can and is connoted as stealing.
man.
the utility CAGI/DARING SHOUT can get to allies is not stealing from GF,
cagi already gives a 20% damage buff
and Daring Shout already give some DR % buff
but i want this buff to be applied to allies, thats the utility it's missing.
nothing is stolen from GF.
and check zveris post and see what i meant by lowering the base damage of intimidation and stop sayin that i want both tankyness and DPS on a tankyness tree.
It is nonsense to me, that a class must deal DPS bursts (be it PvP or PvE) through a couple of UTILITY encounters.
Here is my 2 cents about what should be done. Or at least the ideas that pop in my mind when thinking about the class.
Roughly, a GWF is a fighter supposed to deal AoE DPS in PvE or single target DPS melee in PvP, while protecting the team mates.
Inside this general class definition the devs gave us, we have 3 paths or specs. Sentinel is the supposed "tank" path.
It should deal more DPS than a GF, while being able to tank and protect more than the other 2 paths.
PvE:
Sentinel can't have the same enforced threat as GF. But what it can do is:
- Have some threat too. So i'm in with a threat buff on daring shout. Daring shout should generate more threat. So we have more tankiness to tank and more threat. But not as much as GFs.
- CAGI should have no target cap, larger radius and drag all mobs on top of the GWF. It should be a burst "pull" to protect the allies and give GWF a DPS buff. So we will have a different protecting mechanic compared to GFs. Sentinels would pull mobs at them, stopping them from attacking their team mates. To do so, increase radius and decreased cooldown. GFs keep their aggro generators role, and Sentinels get a tool to protect the allies. Could also boost the whole party DPS as proposed, to add utility. So avery x seconds the GWF would be able to pull mobs away from allies and on top of him. A burst protector.
- Intimidation should deal 250% weapon damage with increased target cap (up to 10-15 mobs) but non-crit. A flat damage from CAGI only, and DS. This way you have around 2.5k damage on 10-15 targets in PvE, which is some DPS to deal more damage compared to GFs. But not enough to use it as a single target burst, as it should be. Can still use CAGI to reveal stealth targets if you think a TR or stealthed HR is around in PvP. Utility. Which is what CAGI is supposed to give.
Intimidation should increase threat generation from DS.
So now you have a couple of encounters that give utility, a lot of utility, and give only a medium AoE DPS buff to be more than a GF but less than a AoE DPS build.
- Damage boost through feat on Restoring strike. Sentinels focus is survivability. What deals damage and adds survivability? Restoring Strike. Add a feat to boost Restoring strike DPS by 30% and can hit up to 3 targets like IBS. And there you have some more DPS and healing to tank. Only 3 targets so sentinels can't be AoE DPS. This way a Sentinel can Shoot daring shout to mark, increase DR and threat, pull the mobs on top of him and hit with restoring strike on the group to heal 3 times more than now.
- Add threat to Unstoppable. A Sentinel in Unstoppable should generate enough threat to briefly attract all the mobs in a certain radius. Again, burst threat/ protection.
- Add HP boost to Sentinel Aegis or another advanced feat in tier 4. Around 20% HP boost would be good for a sentinel.
Now you have a real tanky sentinel with a different mechanic compared to GFs.
In PvP:
A sentinel must tank. Now you'd have more DPS on restoring strike which is good to deal some damage while not being a full damage dealer. On top of this, capstone could increase Restoring strike buff when hitting another player. It's 50% over time on mobs now. Against players it could be 100% buff. Now you have a tank that hits for medium damage but can self heal more. Let's say a restoring strike crits, a sentinel can at best hit for what, 5-6k imho, 8k at best, and heal for 2k instant+2k over time. Sounds fair as a compensation for losing intimidation.
Now you have some more survivability and restoring strike buffed plus IBS to deal some damage.
CAGI should have range reduced to 30' in PvP but should stun the enemy for a short period of time. Like 3 seconds. Counting the time it takes to "pull" the enemy on top of the GWF, it should be enough to pull+stun and land IBS.
Now you have a different mechanic compared to other builds. The GWF sentinel in PvP can tank more, can deal some DPS and add utility. To be aggressive it can go CAGI+IBS and then chase the enemy to directly hit with restoring strike to heal (RS can be landed directly and it adds some proactive DPS out of the CC combo CAGI+IBS). So you can sum up a small hit from CAGI (250% weapon damage+ buffed RS+IBS. With much more survivability with increased healing on RS.
Daring shout could be buffed to give immunity. 1s immunity to damage for each enemy player you hit. Up to 5 seconds if you are surrounded my enemy. Would be a strong tool to tank in current PvP, with burst immunity. Enemies could still CC and burst in between daring shouts. In PvE it could allow GWF to burst tank end-game mobs like in epic SoT exc...where unstoppable DR is not enough to keep you alive usually, expecially if you aggro multiple mobs. Would link immunity to how many enemies you face. So in PvP vs 5 enemies you have 5 seconds immunity to damage, but vs 1 enemy you get 1 second only. Cooldown adjusted accordingly to balance stuff. In PvE you would burst tank. Less than a GF block, but enough to be a tank and do not die versus current end-game mobs. If you put a 14s cooldown you have 5s immunity then 9 seconds to burst the sentinel, which is fair enough imho. You can CC to avoid it going Unstoppable. If needed, Unstoppable DR on capstone can be decreased to avoid the Unstoppable+DS combo to be OP (don't think it will be considering the amount of DPS we have in PvP and the fact that 5s immunity would be vs 5 enemy players).
If used in combo with CAGI you would have immunity (DS) then pull (CAGI) then hit. But you'd need to give up IBS (DPS) or restoring strike (healing).
These are rough ideas to give sentinels a way to tank (for example a DS-CAGI-RS rotation) or deal some damage (CAGI-IBS then RS direct hit on non-CCed target) while being a tank and not a burst DPS.
Can be tweaked but the basic idea is to link damage to restoring strike to increase healing too, and add some "pull" ability or immunity burst to tank in current PvP where DPS went through the roof and piercing damage makes DR useless.
Will post about destroyer and Instigator but these paths are imho less messed up compared to sentinel, and they just need buffs.