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chilling presence or eye of the storm?
xanderleopard2
Member Posts: 90 Arc User
so im currently a renegade build with almost being glass cannon. i have 38% crit chance. since chilling presence gives me extra 10% crit chance, it becomes 48%. so im in dilemma between that and eots. which one should i use? chilling presence also gives me more damage on enemies with chills and it doubles when they are frozen. it is a must for boss fights for me. what are your thoughts? shall i stack more crit so i get 50% chance? ty regardless
Post edited by xanderleopard2#4636 on
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I should add that I got CA/CP about the same time I got my OH, which buffs either SS or CP so far.
im using storm spell and chiling presence now. i think im liking it more than storm spell eots combo. because it was very annoying to keep an eye on eots all the time to see when i can unleash all my encounters and daily. now i can freely do them whenever i want and they crit half of the time. eots was giving me pressure. and i think 48% chance makes u crit more than 38% chance and eots active. im not gonna crit 100% of the time when i use oppressive force though =/
OH is the artifact off hand. It can buff your class features. You start with one and you can buy random ones to choose from. So far, mine can buff Storms Fury, CP or SS
"Chilling Presence now increases your Damage by an additional 0.5% per stack of Chill on your target."
Though I usually have the SS active
"Storm Spell now has a 5% chance to deliver an additional strike."
I do not think it is either / or but rather use the best passive at the appropriate time. I would venture to say that eots for short pack fights and chilling for long boss fights. I am still using eots in tiamat because it is basically hit and run the entire time.
Same here. If only we could do it on the fly! I not only have to change passives, but also tabbed powers when I switch between EOTS and CP. Major pain in the @ss.
Even soloing, I keep CP slotted. With CA, that's a flat 10% boost to crit to begin with, which gives me about 53% character sheet crit. Pretty much makes EotS obsolete, even in short fights.
That aside, Chilling Presence is the main thing now. Forget about EotS
Taste the Thaum tears
exactly what i have seen as well. CP is great for long fights. EoTS for short fights.
^^This...........
You do however lose the ability to guarantee a crit encounter string like you can with EoTS, but at the same time with the crit levels you can reach with CP, I don't even care.
Of course I did my testing at around 50% crit chance (48% - 54%) with CP slotted.
But in this situation, the mobs are going to die quickly whether you have EotS or CP slotted. It doesn't matter.
Are they going to last 3 seconds? Or 4 seconds?
In situations where it's so easy, a caveman could do it, why even waste time switching spells?
PS: Name one fight in neverwinter that an optimal geared / built CW could not be played by a half blind Caveman. Lol
It just proves that people have on their mind only one thing, and that's DPS.
Renegade is the most difficult tree to play as a CW and most expensive one, too. In fact, I think that it is most expensive build in the game.
i fail to see how "skill" is involved in waiting until you see a proc message on your screen to blow all of your encounters in a 6 second time period to maximize dps, regardless of whether those encounters could or could not have been better utilized outside of the EoTS window. in fact, i would call that a lack of skill, since not utilizing your encounters for the optimal benefit of the group generally makes you sub-optimal as a party member.
in terms of people having only dps on their minds, wrong again. yes, you are correct in saying that spellstorm renegade is the pinnacle of CW damage output at the moment, but more importantly, the renegade tree also grants very significant buffs to every member of your party though near constant combat advantage uptime, as well as chaos magic procs, so even IF SS/Rene wasn't the bee's knees for dps right now, it would still be the optimal group utility build for the spellstorm paragon path. I personally took it because its the best of both worlds, and I'd like to have some fun with it before they nerf it into the ground.
as for renegade being the most difficult tree to play, i honestly don't see a bit of difference between playing a renegade and playing thaum. your dps and control loadouts are identical, your positioning requirements for use of icy terrain are identical, and if anything, you have better survivability via lifesteal due to higher damage output and higher spike damage. if you're referring to the mostly wasted feat that buffs your at wills at close range, well, you'd be at close range anyways to use IT, and now you'd be doing more damage if you had the time to fit an at will rotation into the mix before the pack of mobs you just melted is dead.
you are correct, however, that renegade is currently a very expensive build to optimize, but that's more because its a flavor of the month build with a lot of demand for gear pieces, which will taper off in time and prices will normalize.
as to the original question presented in this post, i personally don't bother to switch between chilling presence and EoTS anymore because the difference in damage even on squishy trash packs is minimal at best, and is very dependent on what rotation you use, and whether or not your renegade build includes Chilling Control from the oppressor tree (mine does not). If you use sudden storm to stack 5x chill, along with a 6th stack from IT to freeze things immediately, EoTS can't touch the 72% damage bonus you're about to get on that next steal time cast on a bunch of frozen targets, no matter how often you crit.
Timing your encounters and dailies is skill... or at least its more skill than closing your eyes and spamming your keyboard.
Are you arguing the game in general because after they have removed punting and given everyone artifacts, gems and artifact equipment, there really isn't much skill anywhere. The whole PVE content is a faceroll with ridiculously dumbed-down boss mechanics. For the sake of argument though when comparing EOTS to CP, I think timing your encounters adds a layer of skill.
I'd argue that waiting for eots to proc to cast something isn't skill, it's an automatic habit, one that can be bad. What would be skill is to time your skills to see if you'd get a higher overall dps from waiting vs casting it now.
Like I said in the previous post, we have to argue within the confines of the PVE mechanics in this game. Nothing in PVE right now takes skill. Ever since Castle Never was indirectly nerfed, Cryptic has shoved dumbed-down PVE content after dumbed down PVE content. Just look at Tiamat's boss mechanics. In that sense, I agree that waiting for EOTS to proc doesn't really require much skill (because nothing in PVE requires skill anymore, its all a faceroll). Probably why there are no notable PVE guilds, because there is no pride in being a skilled, coordinated, elite PVE guild in this game.
However, since we are arguing between class features, in my opinion timing your skills for EOTS has more skill than other class features.
I think it takes more skill, and causes more damage to time your big hits with all the other buffs/debuffs, than to wait for just one proc. If I rush in and blow everything in the first 6 seconds, it's unlikely that Chaos Magic has procced or that a DC has hit us with DG, or spread their HP around. Granted, NW is probably active in that time, and I'll probably have HV and any enchant debuff on everything, but others take longer to debuff.
I seem to crit in bursts, so I still wait for Storm Spell to proc to give myself what I consider to be a better chance at crits on my big hits. Maybe that's fiction since I've never parsed it.
With a decent AP gain you can have it all ready within 1 minute.
In my opinion if you are a skilled player and can time EoS just right you will def. do much more DPS. I have tested against other CWs using chilling presense and EoS always wins. It all comes to timing and skill so you use it at the right moments. 7 seconds is enought to use every encounter+ daily alongside with added damage from Spell Storm which crits as well.
i disagree there, as the only skill involved in "timing" your encounters/dailies for EoTS is basic reading comprehension and the ability to slam your face into the keyboard with no regard for the rest of your group whenever you see a giant message flash over your screen that tells you EoTS is up
in general, i dislike EoTS because when its up, 100% of your crit rating is wasted, and when its down, you get no bonus at all from it. So for instance, if you went with the old SS/Thaum setup, spent in wisdom instead of charisma, didn't stack crit, etc, because EoTS would boost your crit rate over time, you basically get 6 seconds of excellent damage followed by 20 seconds of very poor damage (since most people running that setup have under 32% crit chance)
if you went the other way, and spent into charisma instead of wisdom, you'd do better damage outside of EoTS, but you'd have a ton of wasted stat during EoTS, since more crit when you're already at 100% does nothing
its not that EoTS is a bad class feature, i just don't believe, in terms of mechanics and in terms of my parses since the chilling advantage fix, that it is superior to chilling presence if your character is set up properly. at the lower end of the gear spectrum, of course, EoTS probably is superior, because you're just not going to have the crit chance/power/armor pen/etc to maximize the damage you can get from chilling presence.
with my current setup, i'm at 53% crit with chilling advantage (27 charisma, 2819 crit rating), 1150 combat advantage bonus, 9k power, 2543 armor pen, chilling eye of the golden dragon at legendary, etc, so the benefit i get from the chilling presence damage multiplier is pretty massive, especially since i can stack 6 chill in just a few seconds.
i'll do a bit of testing on the ptr with a lower geared CW and see how things add up there, but i can tell you for sure that after a certain point, its just not worth taking the time to swap features in and out for different encounters. chilling presence all the way
Well, would you argue about how other class features involve more skill than EOTS? Also, I was not participating in the arguments of which class feature is better.
As you notice in my other posts, I did concede that nothing in PVE takes much skill. This game's endgame content and raids are a complete joke. Boss mechanics are mind-numbingly simple. Players have too much gear doing faceroll content.
When I take a step back, I do agree that waiting for EOTS doesn't involve too much talent.
Whoa, whoa, you got it wrong. Let me reformulate my previous statement - People became accustomed to the use of EotS. Now, when that's cleared up, allow me to prove you wrong regarding the quoted.
- Waiting for proper timing Is a skill non-the-less, and it's 4 [four] Seconds for the Passive Skill Eye of the Storm.
- What's skillful about it is the fact that Control Wizards need to optimize their build to get to such an effect of maximizing the build. It's time-consuming as well as AD consuming, with constant need to test-test-test.
- High Vizier Debuff with Steal Time works Party-wise, so High Vizier is a Debuff set working for the entire Party, increasing their DPS by 30% on up to five enemies during the six seconds time period. This is a highly repeatable process which works the best with Steal Time spell.
Yes, current CW meta is DPS because the Control got nerfed to the ground. The DPS of a CW in the current builds is the most optimal one. Most of things got broken in the process, too. As for the almost constant CA bonus, it's rarely used to a maximum potential by party members. Most people don't even know what it is.
- Yes, the Renegade requires most involvement to play. It's not a pure DPS tree and as such you have, what you previously stated, the best of the two worlds, meaning that you can be quite the buff/debuff build yourself. What I meant with the difficulty to play a renegade is quite simple - you need more skill to play it, plain and simple, before going to spend time and effort to change from the MOD4 meta Thaum CW. You need to optimize the build in wa2ys that most BiS doesn't quite allow in all honesty. Which is why you will see a lot of builds on Imperial Cloak + Owlbear INT + 2x Archmage [2slot] and the three forms of easily attainable sigils. That's the current Thaum Meta, which remained the same over the time.
I disagree. Renegade was always expensive because it needs a lot of power and a lot of crit where P.Vorpal is sort of an requirement. Thaum builds can easily pass with a G.Pfire.
In that case there's no point to run a Renegade to begin with. Chilling Advantage is a must
Sudden storm is a fantastic method to add extra chill, unfortunately Renegade tree is slightly broken with the current choices and there's no way to add extra Chill aside from losing some DPS on some very important feats. I do think that Sudden storm feat from the Oppressor does belong in the Renegade [storm] tree, by all means.
I disagree here. P vorp is not a requirement on a renegade. Not at all. If anything, a thaumaturge that use EotS will likely have a higher overall critical rate than a renegade. Also, due to how combat advantage works, vorpal is a bit less effective on renegade.
You don't need power more on a renegade than on a thaumaturge. You don't *need* crit more on a renegade but crit rating has a higher value on renegade than on thaumaturge due to not using eots, so you should, normally, have more crit. But it's not a requirement, rather, it's an effect of using something else than eye of the storm. A thaumaturge that would use chilling presence over eye of the storm would (should) do the same.
i've never seen anyone, thaum, renegade, hybrid, or otherwise, even consider the use of 2/2 setups using Archmage, not even noobs who don't understand how to gear. the only 2/2 setup that thaums use is 2 DL/2fabled, for 900 bonus power (yes, thaums like power just as much as rengades) in terms of gearing, thaum and renegade are virually identical with the exception of artifact and companion choices if you're looking to get the most out of your character. My conversion to renegade involved picking up an intellect devourer, a blink dog, and swapping my GWF sigil for Kessell's spheres. I also got the spheres from trading off a Thayan book of the dead (best in slot for thaum) to obtain a best in slot artifact for renegade, so the cost difference is a wash.
you keep saying that renegade involves more skill to play properly, but i can't even continue to debate that with you because you haven't managed to support that claim with even one example of "why" you believe that, you just seem to like saying it for no other reason than to disagree. At least give us a little insight into how it requires more skill to play the exact same loadout with the exact same positioning requirements with more detail than just an "it does because it does"
In that case there's no point to run a Renegade to begin with. Chilling Advantage is a must
go back and read again. i even specified what tree the feat i was talking about comes from, and its not the renegade tree...