OK - having run my Fury Soulbinder through eLoL for the first couple of times I have to say that the paragon needs some work. She's just over 13k GS so pretty much entry level for that dungeon but I did have a nice party from Legit who helped me with the mechanics. She was far from useless but not as effective as an equivalent Hellbringer build would have been. The core issues for me are the spark mechanic and the lacklustre replacement class feature for NPNM.
Sparks take time to build and for me the bonus you get at full sparks is not enough to compensate for the fact that you have to build from zero every single fight. In fact sparks drop so quickly you have to build from zero between phases of HEs, even when the 'reinforcement' mobs turn up immediately. They need to improve the bonuses for having sparks and also add some kind of short delay to spark removal.
They also need to look at the class features. Apart from Borrowed Time they are lacklustre to the point of uselessness. These need a complete rework IMO with the effectiveness of NPNM as the benchmark to aim for. And not necessarily in the form of DPS either. I have no problem with Hellbringer being the pure DPS paragon but Soulbinder needs some added utility to compensate. Maybe a party-wide defense buff based on sparks or similar.
Soulbinder has fun gameplay and can be pretty effective in solo play, but it just doesn't add anything sufficient to compensate for lower DPS in group play. Which is a real shame as this is an opportunity to make Warlocks more varied and less one-dimensional.
Just creating warlock and soon will need to chose paragon path
wich one is option for me?
i want necromanser not demonologist.
sorry if this is of topic.
Just creating warlock and soon will need to chose paragon path
wich one is option for me?
i want necromanser not demonologist.
sorry if this is of topic.
Soulbinder or Hellbringer are the main options
then the spec path options are Fury (DPS), Damnation (i still wanna say it is DPS) and Temptation (Healing).
Surivablity is just...well, way better than I had with Hellbringer, especially with that offhand borrowed time feature boost. Probably best choice for PvP
Is soul binder really inferior to hellbringer? Happened to group with a 20K soul binder in MC while on my CW and he had TT up on EVERY set of mobs. He ended up with around 20M in total damage. Not sure exactly what build he was using, but was running dust to dust as his offhand artifact power.
Is soul binder really inferior to hellbringer? Happened to group with a 20K soul binder in MC while on my CW and he had TT up on EVERY set of mobs. He ended up with around 20M in total damage. Not sure exactly what build he was using, but was running dust to dust as his offhand artifact power.
Yeah, soulbinders tend to do less damage (I remember somebody did parsing and it was around 20% or so) than hellbringer mostly because of No Pity No mercy. It's survivability is amazing though
Yeah, soulbinders tend to do less damage (I remember somebody did parsing and it was around 20% or so) than hellbringer mostly because of No Pity No mercy. It's survivability is amazing though
And if you spec for it AP gain can be very high - especially with the right Artifact offhand. If you were to build for AP gain and spam TT in most dungeons you could well end up doing as much or more damage than a Hellbringer just because of the increased TT uptime.
Most 'normal' builds though will be as you say - around 20% less sustained DPS but much better survivability, even with a Fury build.
Surivablity is just...well, way better than I had with Hellbringer, especially with that offhand borrowed time feature boost. Probably best choice for PvP
For me, the biggest difference is soul scorch. That is the skill that makes up for the loss of the passive no pity no mercy. Doing heavy necro damage, repeatedly, to a target to help trigger harder hitting creeping death is very nice. Mainly (aside from the fact that accursed diabolist does a lot of my job for me) I now feel like I'm the one doing the damage rather than a passive boost. It kind of feels better to know that I'm directly affecting how much pain I'm giving. And I realize that is mostly a state of mind and not objective data.
If you haven't tried it, try running WB, DT, SS till you run out of sparks as a soul binder (keeping in mind that you also have the accursed set, because that set makes DT a completely different skill than without it). There have been times while doing this that I have really seen the damage go crazy. For example, you can really go to town in elol with the number of high health single targets in there.
Depends a lot on who you're running with, though, and how fast things are dying. So much of our damage is done over time, so if people are geared higher than you are, or you have other people matching or beating your initial damage, you won't see the numbers climb as high as if you were in a group of healer dc, gf, and gwf as your supporters.
However, that is probably the same on hellbringer or soul binder. All I know for sure is that I find soulbinder to be a bit more interactive, and I definitely notice myself needing to use fewer potions. And I still do great damage that is only topped by better geared or more skilled players.
If you haven't tried it, try running WB, DT, SS till you run out of sparks as a soul binder (keeping in mind that you also have the accursed set, because that set makes DT a completely different skill than without it). There have been times while doing this that I have really seen the damage go crazy. For example, you can really go to town in elol with the number of high health single targets in there.
This is my standard rotation against high-HP targets like bosses and dragons. WC->WB->DT plus ED pam to build full sparks, then WC->WB->Spam SS until sparks are gone. Rinse and repeat. Builds hugely damaging CD stacks because of the extended burn from using SS on a cursed target.
Yeah, soulbinders tend to do less damage (I remember somebody did parsing and it was around 20% or so) than hellbringer mostly because of No Pity No mercy. It's survivability is amazing though
According to my parses if you use Soul Scorch correctly (get the curse consume because it doubles the damage with a 6 sec DoT) it does more damage, at least on bosses. And I'm kinda sick of people saying No Pity No Mercy is extremely good. It only does Combat advantage, which can easily be gotten by a good party anyway.
I personally think Soulbinder is better because Soul Scorch and Dust to Dust.
I guess you do have to take this with a grain of salt, as I am a Temptlock
According to my parses if you use Soul Scorch correctly (get the curse consume because it doubles the damage with a 6 sec DoT) it does more damage, at least on bosses. And I'm kinda sick of people saying No Pity No Mercy is extremely good. It only does Combat advantage, which can easily be gotten by a good party anyway.
I personally think Soulbinder is better because Soul Scorch and Dust to Dust.
I guess you do have to take this with a grain of salt, as I am a Temptlock
Indeed, with so many people running Renegade CW, Aspect of the pack HR and GF/GWFs with mark, it's easy to have almost 100% CA in a good party.
Indeed, with so many people running Renegade CW, Aspect of the pack HR and GF/GWFs with mark, it's easy to have almost 100% CA in a good party.
Combat Advantage is some vague stuff, at least the way it's calculated.
I don't know why but I deal way more damage with hellbringer path. Honestly I feel like soulbinder was some kind of "dps cage" for me...but a cosy one Maybe I just should get used to soulbinder more.
Combat Advantage is some vague stuff, at least the way it's calculated.
I don't know why but I deal way more damage with hellbringer path. Honestly I feel like soulbinder was some kind of "dps cage" for me...but a cosy one Maybe I just should get used to soulbinder more.
I just did some testing which indicates that on bosses at least there is little to no DPS difference between the two paragons - for Fury 'locks at least. Soul Scorch is just that good if used correctly. Seems to trigger more Hellfire procs than the standard Hellbringer rotation.
That bar is you soul sparks bar. Every time you essence defiler it will go up one bar(also get a Soul Spark for any crit hit on any skill) The circles light up every time you get 6 Soul Sparks they will light up with flames when you max out at 30. You use them by using an ability call Soul Scorch which is Available at 30 points. Soul Scorch uses 6 sparks per cast. That or you wait for combat to end and they heal you:D
Comments
Sparks take time to build and for me the bonus you get at full sparks is not enough to compensate for the fact that you have to build from zero every single fight. In fact sparks drop so quickly you have to build from zero between phases of HEs, even when the 'reinforcement' mobs turn up immediately. They need to improve the bonuses for having sparks and also add some kind of short delay to spark removal.
They also need to look at the class features. Apart from Borrowed Time they are lacklustre to the point of uselessness. These need a complete rework IMO with the effectiveness of NPNM as the benchmark to aim for. And not necessarily in the form of DPS either. I have no problem with Hellbringer being the pure DPS paragon but Soulbinder needs some added utility to compensate. Maybe a party-wide defense buff based on sparks or similar.
Soulbinder has fun gameplay and can be pretty effective in solo play, but it just doesn't add anything sufficient to compensate for lower DPS in group play. Which is a real shame as this is an opportunity to make Warlocks more varied and less one-dimensional.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
wich one is option for me?
i want necromanser not demonologist.
sorry if this is of topic.
If you have nothing to add to this post, Please feel free to Private message me and I will gladly discuss with you further.
Soulbinder or Hellbringer are the main options
then the spec path options are Fury (DPS), Damnation (i still wanna say it is DPS) and Temptation (Healing).
I personally like Fury Hellbringer
Surivablity is just...well, way better than I had with Hellbringer, especially with that offhand borrowed time feature boost. Probably best choice for PvP
WTB Class Reroll please
i wont be able to until after 6:00 PM EST though
WTB Class Reroll please
Most 'normal' builds though will be as you say - around 20% less sustained DPS but much better survivability, even with a Fury build.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Yep the Borrowed Time feature is very nice.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
If you haven't tried it, try running WB, DT, SS till you run out of sparks as a soul binder (keeping in mind that you also have the accursed set, because that set makes DT a completely different skill than without it). There have been times while doing this that I have really seen the damage go crazy. For example, you can really go to town in elol with the number of high health single targets in there.
Depends a lot on who you're running with, though, and how fast things are dying. So much of our damage is done over time, so if people are geared higher than you are, or you have other people matching or beating your initial damage, you won't see the numbers climb as high as if you were in a group of healer dc, gf, and gwf as your supporters.
However, that is probably the same on hellbringer or soul binder. All I know for sure is that I find soulbinder to be a bit more interactive, and I definitely notice myself needing to use fewer potions. And I still do great damage that is only topped by better geared or more skilled players.
Good times.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
According to my parses if you use Soul Scorch correctly (get the curse consume because it doubles the damage with a 6 sec DoT) it does more damage, at least on bosses. And I'm kinda sick of people saying No Pity No Mercy is extremely good. It only does Combat advantage, which can easily be gotten by a good party anyway.
I personally think Soulbinder is better because Soul Scorch and Dust to Dust.
I guess you do have to take this with a grain of salt, as I am a Temptlock
Indeed, with so many people running Renegade CW, Aspect of the pack HR and GF/GWFs with mark, it's easy to have almost 100% CA in a good party.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
I don't know why but I deal way more damage with hellbringer path. Honestly I feel like soulbinder was some kind of "dps cage" for me...but a cosy one
WTB Class Reroll please
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder