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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Nine Hells

Soul Binder

scarletsapphirescarletsapphire Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
edited January 2015 in The Nine Hells
Is anyone running a fury spec soul binder ...I just respected in to it and I am having so much fun but feel it can be maximized to be more efficient. The reason I did this is because ive seen temptation locks out damage fury only spec since it came to live ...an thoughts?????
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  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm running a Soulbinder Furylock. I'm still optimising the build and rotations but it actually can pump out some respectable DPS alongside the enhanced durability. I need to do more testing but it might be that WC->WB->Spam SS is actually more DPS than WC->WB->DT. ED really keeps CD ticking over as well.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • leandreav1leandreav1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    But DT doubles as decent unlimited target AoE *and* synergizes pretty well with our T2 4p.

    With all the HAMSTER that CCs me out of DT I wouldn't mind tossing it off for something else, but single target it is powerful thanks to the T2 4P and for AoE it devastates too.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Fury Soulbinder is just fine DPS wise... It can dish out damage.

    However it's still decently behind the Hellbringer in overall terms. I'd say by about 10-15% or so... But that's just a guesstimate. :)
    va8Ru.gif
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    kolatmaster wrote: »
    Fury Soulbinder is just fine DPS wise... It can dish out damage.

    However it's still decently behind the Hellbringer in overall terms. I'd say by about 10-15% or so... But that's just a guesstimate. :)
    If you build and play a Soulbinder Fury the same as a Hellbringer Fury then you'll be somewhere around 20% worse off I'd guess (depending on uptime of NPNM and how much CHA you stack). I'm playing around with ways to narrow that gap a little.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    leandreav1 wrote: »
    But DT doubles as decent unlimited target AoE *and* synergizes pretty well with our T2 4p.

    With all the HAMSTER that CCs me out of DT I wouldn't mind tossing it off for something else, but single target it is powerful thanks to the T2 4P and for AoE it devastates too.
    SS synergises just as well with CD as DT does - possibly better. You don't build as many stacks but they tick for more. DT is still useful as a situational AoE but I'm getting better results running Blades/SS/KF than my Hellbringer rotation that centered around DT.

    It's a different playstyle to get the most out of the Soulbringer feats and powers.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • scarletsapphirescarletsapphire Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I totally agree and im having so much fun with this build ...ill try and get screen shots of my build and stats later to see what can be tweeked
  • onyx1994onyx1994 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Personally, and i'm not experienced, but I use Soul-Scorch for my daily dragons, the cast time is -ish- and I don't like having to waste my SSparks, as the passive Lifesteal and Damage boosts are insane in terms of survivability. For passives I use both the ones that increase my healing from Soul Sparks and the other Soul Spark passive (Bad with names, sorry).

    I'm not a high enough level to use any gear worth noting, just anything with built-in Lifesteal. I use Darks in my defensive slots and a mix of radiants and azure in my offense. My enchantment at the moment is a lesser flaming, but would prefer a Perfect Vorpal, aswell as a Perfect Lightning for AoE.

    I am outdamaged by almost nobody unless there is another SW with better enchantments.

    I must point out so far, I've not even come close to dieing, as my lifesteal is awesome.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    onyx1994 wrote: »
    Personally, and i'm not experienced, but I use Soul-Scorch for my daily dragons, the cast time is -ish- and I don't like having to waste my SSparks, as the passive Lifesteal and Damage boosts are insane in terms of survivability. For passives I use both the ones that increase my healing from Soul Sparks and the other Soul Spark passive (Bad with names, sorry).
    Soul Scorch is awesome against Dragons or any other tough mob. Spam 4 or 5 of those bad boys on top of a WC->WB stack and watch things melt. Against lesser mobs I sometime use it as a finisher if Killing Flames is on CD or I feel I can lose the Spark boost. Otherwise you can pretty much facetank the content using only Essence Defiler and Blades since your boosted LS plus Borrowed Time heals will outheal incoming DPS from anything below HE/Lair Boss level.

    ED is, IMO, easily the best At-Will for Fury 'locks and builds CD stacks really quickly. In fact it's almost worth going Soulbinder just for ED and SS alone. If it weren't for No Pity, No Mercy that is...
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    twilightwatchman wrote: »
    If it weren't for No Pity, No Mercy that is...
    Yeah... That is the Alpha and the Omega of it all. That class feature is just so dang good. Irreplacable.
    va8Ru.gif
  • vasdamasvasdamas Member Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I take it this path has no necrotic damage at all? Didn't have a chance to look at it myself yet plus people were not as excited about this paragon path on preview as they are now on live.
    Misery's SW Fury Soulbinder PvP guide
    WTB Class Reroll please
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    kolatmaster wrote: »
    Yeah... That is the Alpha and the Omega of it all. That class feature is just so dang good. Irreplacable.

    Burning Soul.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vasdamas wrote: »
    I take it this path has no necrotic damage at all? Didn't have a chance to look at it myself yet plus people were not as excited about this paragon path on preview as they are now on live.
    The new At-Will, and Encounter, are Necrotic Damage.
    va8Ru.gif
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    rubytrue wrote: »
    Burning Soul.
    Which, honestly, doesn't make up for No Pity, No Mercy... At least in my testing, have you found that to be different?
    va8Ru.gif
  • vasdamasvasdamas Member Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    kolatmaster wrote: »
    The new At-Will, and Encounter, are Necrotic Damage.
    Okay, thanks. Any decent paragon feats?
    Misery's SW Fury Soulbinder PvP guide
    WTB Class Reroll please
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    vasdamas wrote: »
    Okay, thanks. Any decent paragon feats?
    Ya, the Soulbinder has a one good feat:

    Fury Feat – Burning Soul – Your Soul Sparks now also increase your damage by .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2% per Spark.

    However it doesn't make up for No Pity, No Mercy either. It really is THAT good. lol
    va8Ru.gif
  • ychiakiychiaki Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    kolatmaster wrote: »
    Ya, the Soulbinder has a one good feat:

    Fury Feat – Burning Soul – Your Soul Sparks now also increase your damage by .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2% per Spark.

    However it doesn't make up for No Pity, No Mercy either. It really is THAT good. lol

    At the moment it's ".06/.12/.18/.24/.3% per Spark" for a total of 9% damage bonus at full sparks.
    DC Divine Oracle Faithful
    HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
    GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
    CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
    TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
    SW Soulbinder Fury
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    kolatmaster wrote: »
    Which, honestly, doesn't make up for No Pity, No Mercy... At least in my testing, have you found that to be different?

    I think they are really pretty close depending on how often you expend a spark for Soul Scorch. No Pity, No Mercy is roughly +20% damage about 30-40% of the time depending on crit chance; Burning Soul is roughly +9% damage about 80% of the time (if you are like me and rarely shoot off a soul spark-->ED+DT builds up sparks so fast, you get full pips in no time). I think the time made up for chugging heals smooths out any difference; i.e. I'm ending boss fights with full health and rarely use a heal due to Borrowed Time. I'm currently level 54 or 55 and I'm still using the heal potions that only give 2000 health; I have about 70 of those left. I haven't needed the 4K or 6K heals. (OK, I lied; I used two 4K heals when I aggroed all the mobs on a skirmish due to TT.)

    Testing may prove me wrong, but it sure *feels* like it is really comparable. I have a hellbringer furylock which I loved to play, but I am blowing through content a lot faster with the binder furylock. It just seems like a freakin' Lawnmower of Doom. I'm still playing around with it, it will be interesting to see what it can do.
  • wowowowowowowowowowo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Someone tried the Soul Binder for PvP? Generating Sparks doesn't seem really PvP friendly D: Any experiences?
  • lazaroth666lazaroth666 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Hi guys, don't compare a feat (Burning soul) with a class feature (NPNM) It doesn't make any sense, there are no new offensive class features in the Soulbinder paragon so it's Borrowed Time/Dust to Dust against NPMP/Flames of Empowerment, then Gatekeeper's Empowerment vs Burning Soul.

    First, Survivability vs Damage - Borrowed Time it's really great for survivability, healing a lot every 2 secs meanwhile NPMP only gives you CA, both are very useful in solo play but when you are in a dungeon playing with a good GWF or GF, most mobs are already marked or at least the elites which we usually choose for our TT so there using NPMP isn't a good option at all, meanwhile with Borrowed Time it's like you will never need to use a potion and those fights with unavoidable dmg like Valindra, Fulminorax, Tiamat now you will run them with ease.

    Second, Damage feat vs Damage feat, when you slot Flames of Empowerment is a boost of 17% damage (class feature + feat) when your daily is up vs 9% more dmg when you have 30 sparks plus another class feature which might be whatever you want like shadow walk, deadly curse, etc so is that difference (8% dmg) against one of these class features, that's how you should compare Hellbringer vs Soulbinder.
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  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ychiaki wrote: »
    At the moment it's ".06/.12/.18/.24/.3% per Spark" for a total of 9% damage bonus at full sparks.
    My apologies. :)
    rubytrue wrote: »
    Testing may prove me wrong, but it sure *feels* like it is really comparable. I have a hellbringer furylock which I loved to play, but I am blowing through content a lot faster with the binder furylock. It just seems like a freakin' Lawnmower of Doom. I'm still playing around with it, it will be interesting to see what it can do.
    Fair enough, but definitely test things out at 60... That's where my opinion is based on. ;)
    Either way, bottom line, thus far... Hellbringer does more damage then Soulbinder, overall from my testing by about 10-15%. If you'd rather not pop potions, that is perfectly fine! :cool:
    va8Ru.gif
  • leandreav1leandreav1 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    For leveling it may be fine, but chugging potions is not really a thing with a warlock once at 60. In fact, most at 60 don't chug potions. The damage and the life steal take care of things.

    As a tempt warlock I hardly use one and with me in the party it'll take a big emergency to do so.

    Curiosity tempts me to try the binder path, though I'd have to download the preview server for a looksie. Currently my survival is pretty good (just slot 1.5k to 2k Defense, unless loving to hit the ground when hit by by an unavoidable circle of DHOOM!)and damage is what I'm striving for (as it does add more life steal to everyone in the party).

    The math on the uptimes of No Pity and not using the sparks seem to put things pretty equal, while also freeing a passive, though party DPS goes down if no other CA bringers are present, which does happen.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I think the jury will be out on this for until people get really experienced with it. It was a while before properly optimised Hellbringer builds appeared and Soulbinder gameplay is sufficiently different that those builds don't transfer efficiently.

    I find it more fun to play and I'm not a min-maxer, so it suits me perfectly. If you're after optimal performance right now then use one of the tested Hellbringer builds.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    kolatmaster wrote: »
    Ya, the Soulbinder has a one good feat:

    Fury Feat – Burning Soul – Your Soul Sparks now also increase your damage by .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2% per Spark.

    However it doesn't make up for No Pity, No Mercy either. It really is THAT good. lol
    Yup. It's not so much that Soulbinder is lacking - more that NPNM is really too good. A single Paragon feat shouldn't really be that essential but it's not the only example in the game.

    Mind you, people said the same about Eye of the Storm but MoF players eventually found ways to compensate for not having it.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I find that they are very different playstyles. I just deleted my Hellbringer even though I now think that it did in fact did more bursty damage. It was, however, too much of a glass cannon for my tastes. The binder, on the other hand, I play mostly in melee range. It is almost a high DPS tank. I actually use ED & DT (hey it has an AoE effect too, woo) as my single target attacks and use Blades and Infernal Spheres as my AoEs. Blades will fill your spark pips almost immediately gving you a healthy damage and lifesteal boost. Since I'm not running Soul Scorch (and losing a good chunk of high burst DPS) my sparks stay full during battle resulting in lots of damage and lots of healing. It isn't for everyone, but I am having a good time playing a bindertank.
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    rubytrue wrote: »
    I find that they are very different playstyles. I just deleted my Hellbringer even though I now think that it did in fact did more bursty damage. It was, however, too much of a glass cannon for my tastes. The binder, on the other hand, I play mostly in melee range. It is almost a high DPS tank. I actually use ED & DT (hey it has an AoE effect too, woo) as my single target attacks and use Blades and Infernal Spheres as my AoEs. Blades will fill your spark pips almost immediately gving you a healthy damage and lifesteal boost. Since I'm not running Soul Scorch (and losing a good chunk of high burst DPS) my sparks stay full during battle resulting in lots of damage and lots of healing. It isn't for everyone, but I am having a good time playing a bindertank.
    That's more or less the build I play with, except I typically find room for KF in there somewhere. Close-up in-your-face gameplay and great fun.

    For Dragons I slot SS and WB as this gives massive CD ticks when spammed.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • ychiakiychiaki Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    WB and then spaming SS on a target is awesome.
    DC Divine Oracle Faithful
    HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
    GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
    CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
    TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
    SW Soulbinder Fury
  • mjytreszmjytresz Member Posts: 500 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    wowowowowo wrote: »
    Someone tried the Soul Binder for PvP? Generating Sparks doesn't seem really PvP friendly D: Any experiences?

    I don't claim to be a pro in SW PvP at all, however, I've tried this and it just doesn't seem feasible.
    Soul Scorch can put out a ton of damage with just 1 shot but getting the Soul Sparks for it is the hard part.

    If you have SS Slotted then Sparks are part of your rotation, how are you getting them? Either the new encounter or crits from another encounter. Either way, you're probably dead beforehand.
    I've come to like Soulbinder but I don't feel it's very PvP friendly at 60.
    Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?

    Go Cryptic!
    PS - I quit.
  • animalustanimalust Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 573 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    I actually ran across a 20k Soulbinder that proved to be very difficult to kill, but he was using dreadtheft which was a big mistake lol
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    animalust wrote: »
    I actually ran across a 20k Soulbinder that proved to be very difficult to kill, but he was using dreadtheft which was a big mistake lol
    Soulbinder has the potential to form a really tanky build but the Spark mechanic isn't really suited to PvP gameplay. Takes too long to power up and you have to start over again every single fight. In PvE it works well, although I'm still trying to work out an optimal build.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • animalustanimalust Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 573 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    twilightwatchman wrote: »
    Soulbinder has the potential to form a really tanky build but the Spark mechanic isn't really suited to PvP gameplay. Takes too long to power up and you have to start over again every single fight. In PvE it works well, although I'm still trying to work out an optimal build.

    Yah he was okay when it was him and a TR vs me, but by himself he just couldnt finish me off but I was also unable to get him until i switch to Killing Flames and started hunting him specifically, after that it was easy. Guy was stacking about 3k Lifesteal to my 2k, but he had no incoming heal bonus it seemed and less HP but good man he was a Fury Build ;p
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