test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
PvP experience as a new player
suleiman7
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 10 Arc User
I'm a completely new player to Neverwinter, and in every game prior, I really just do nothing but PvP.
I'm here to chime in on my experience on how PvP has been so far, and how the community appears to me. If just the mere thought of a new guy talking about PvP raises your blood pressure, I highly suggest you close out of the thread before you read another word.
Okay, Introduction out of the way. Now to the content.
I've played the game for about a week, and in my past 3 days as a fresh-60, I managed to get a full set of t1 gear and a t2 weapon with no AD cost to me, just PvP glory.
I play a Trickster Rogue and have 9k gearscore with the most basic of Boons and the default artifact.
http://tinypic.com/r/21o7fr5/8
New with a capital N.
But my PvP stats?
http://i62.tinypic.com/10z1oax.jpg
But how is PvP for someone with just 9k gs?
Well, Here's just a few screens of what my scores have looked like lately;
http://i61.tinypic.com/29bmr0z.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/33c7p87.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/j7aquc/8
http://i61.tinypic.com/x3d54k.png
It's actually not bad. When I don't queue up against premades, that is. Normally it's a good equal skilled match and my scores look pretty much like that. Is gear a big factor? It depends. I'm not going to brag and say I earned all those wins. I got queue'd into premades. I got queue'd with people whose gs was 20k+ but the enemy's gs might as well been as high as mine.
And I've queue'd AGAINST such odds. Yesterday I got queue'd up against Sicarius himself, along with what might as well been his premade since they were amazingly organized and completely destroyed our morale when we couldn't even cap. Was I mad? No. Was my team mad? Yeah, but that's just matchmaking for you.
EDIT: proof in the pudding
The PvP is actually fun, even when you're nowhere near top-dog with gear. I haven't seen a rager yet, and most of the people are pretty nice. In a premade I got queue'd into, one of my teammates straight up gave me that tier 2 main-hand (If you're reading this, thanks again).
GS does play a factor, but shouldn't it? I shouldn't be able to do 18k+ damage on someone with 20k+ gs. That's just not right. I see all these complaints about some one guy with 25k gs destroying people whose gs is under 16k, but that's what should happen. Heck, I 1v3'd one time even with my gears, I'm pretty sure someone with 25k gs could do the exact same thing no problem.
Conclusion?
I believe the PvP is balanced, even for a new player. And It's NOT AS BAD AS PEOPLE SAY IT IS!
Don't be discouraged, fellow new players!
I'm here to chime in on my experience on how PvP has been so far, and how the community appears to me. If just the mere thought of a new guy talking about PvP raises your blood pressure, I highly suggest you close out of the thread before you read another word.
Okay, Introduction out of the way. Now to the content.
I've played the game for about a week, and in my past 3 days as a fresh-60, I managed to get a full set of t1 gear and a t2 weapon with no AD cost to me, just PvP glory.
I play a Trickster Rogue and have 9k gearscore with the most basic of Boons and the default artifact.
http://tinypic.com/r/21o7fr5/8
New with a capital N.
But my PvP stats?
http://i62.tinypic.com/10z1oax.jpg
But how is PvP for someone with just 9k gs?
Well, Here's just a few screens of what my scores have looked like lately;
http://i61.tinypic.com/29bmr0z.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/33c7p87.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/j7aquc/8
http://i61.tinypic.com/x3d54k.png
It's actually not bad. When I don't queue up against premades, that is. Normally it's a good equal skilled match and my scores look pretty much like that. Is gear a big factor? It depends. I'm not going to brag and say I earned all those wins. I got queue'd into premades. I got queue'd with people whose gs was 20k+ but the enemy's gs might as well been as high as mine.
And I've queue'd AGAINST such odds. Yesterday I got queue'd up against Sicarius himself, along with what might as well been his premade since they were amazingly organized and completely destroyed our morale when we couldn't even cap. Was I mad? No. Was my team mad? Yeah, but that's just matchmaking for you.
EDIT: proof in the pudding
The PvP is actually fun, even when you're nowhere near top-dog with gear. I haven't seen a rager yet, and most of the people are pretty nice. In a premade I got queue'd into, one of my teammates straight up gave me that tier 2 main-hand (If you're reading this, thanks again).
GS does play a factor, but shouldn't it? I shouldn't be able to do 18k+ damage on someone with 20k+ gs. That's just not right. I see all these complaints about some one guy with 25k gs destroying people whose gs is under 16k, but that's what should happen. Heck, I 1v3'd one time even with my gears, I'm pretty sure someone with 25k gs could do the exact same thing no problem.
Conclusion?
I believe the PvP is balanced, even for a new player. And It's NOT AS BAD AS PEOPLE SAY IT IS!
Don't be discouraged, fellow new players!
Veni Vidi Vici
Post edited by suleiman7 on
0
Comments
If you were 9k GS GWF or DC for instance, your K/D would be flopped around, you would be complaining about how PVP is really unfair. That your teammates cant do anything even with you there to help them.
When you have the ability to stealth-hide or even just take advantage of being invisible, you seem much less squishy than youd think. If you swapped over to even the "tank" class: a GF, youd find that within seconds of hitting a node, some HRs CC goes through your block, drops your shield, and then some CW or TR blows you up. Sound fair?
Also, PVP atm is really geared more towards a player such as yourself. Your 50-50 on wins losses so your ELO isnt really all that high. Imagine how hard it is as Sicarius trying to get INTO a "fun" match. 9/10 games are against 9k GS players who we kills under 2 seconds. Its not fun.
What IS fun is if they matched even players with even players. I mean its a little case and point that you (a 9k GS player) got matched with him....
Considering he can roll his face on the keyboard and win, how is that balanced? Now as a TEAM he might "average out" with others but unfortunately thats not how it works.
TWO 9k GS players does NOT equal one 18k GS player.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. Wait until they nerf stealth in the upcoming patch and then re-write your thoughts on PVP balance. :P
People here just love to whine.
And yes, absolutely, skill is more important that GS, but at a certain point it doesn't matter how skilled you are if the other player's GS is just that much higher. A fair fight would be between people who have a similar set of tools, but that's not what happens here.
For a Tr if you play it right, you basically annoyed the hell out of other players with stealth/daze.
Maybe you like to try playing other classes, you might have a different prospective.
That said, TR is currently not just "a good class to roll for pvp as a new player" it is entirely broken beyond broken. I am another one who would say to try pvp with even the second best pvp class and see what you think. I greatly enjoy pvp but honestly I am playing this game in small doses anymore because just often as not, it is simply not fun. It can be incredibly aggravating and its like "why do something that makes ya unhappy".
This is so true and I really think this post speaks to two things:
1. The elo does work. As you win more you get pitted against other players who have also won more.
2. There is most definitely a need for pvp brackets of some sort. When you win a lot as a smart undergeared pugger you will find yourself more and more fighting smart well geared puggers. Glory items cool. Hello 14-15k grinding boons and winning profound gear. But the rp factor sets in where enchants and artifacts are concerned. Grind/buy enough rp for rank 7's and 8's, hello 17-18k with a good build. But then we are looking at artifacts and what looks like a truly endless grind. If not levels, then something to differentiate between the 10-15k, 15-20k and 20k and beyond. Light, medium and heavyweight?
This is where I stopped reading.
This is what brought me to the forums today. I'm a new player who mainly plays pve. I like the idea of pvp, but readily admit I suck at it. In my quest for more AD, I've had a few forays into pvp, and it was shall we say, a very unsatisfactory experience. Theres no fun in getting wiped out over and over by more experienced pvp'ers, and then getting verbally flamed by immature idiots who take this game far too seriously when they are teamed up with folks like me who are obviously in way over their head.
Basing pvp matches on level alone does not suffice. My thoughts are that pvp matches should be based on a combination of three criteria: Level, GS, and Glory points, in that order. Let players work their way up the ranks so to speak to the "big leagues", while at the same time allowing casual pvp'ers a better chance at competing against players their own speed (and get that pvp daily in without that crappy feeling of dread).
Except that amputee can beat you with the right prosthetic.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Please check back in, say in a week or two....I can't help but feel this is a troll post.
PvP is ridiculous atm on so many levels, if you are not trolling perhaps you just don't care about these things yet, or havent been kicked from matches yet.
There really really really needs to be a basic pvp tutorial. As a new, probably under geared, player, it comes down to effectively following the lead of the more experienced player(s) on the team. Basics are always fight on node (the circle with the tower on it) when the node is red or grey and to force the opponent off node when the node is blue. Always go to node 2 at the start, never to the node closest to were you spawn. Someone will always cap (make blue) that home node. So if there are four on mid node, and one on home you have maxed your odds of capping both nodes from the start and having an immediate advantage over the other team. Fail to do this and you give the other team an immediate advantage. Those are the basics and though there is a little more to it than that, if all new players followed those simple rules, pvp would be a lot more like a happy place than the sewer it can become when teams become fail parades. Have fun and good luck
Well yes, but there's no prosthetic here unless the high gs'er really, really doesn't know what they're doing or the low gs'er is OP as hell.
Cluelessness bears no relevancy to GS.
I see just as much clueless people with 20k gs, as I see clueless people at 10k gs. As a matter of fact clueless people at high gs are quite common to find and their attitudes are much worse than lower gs people.
Those at lower gs generally acknowledge that they arent much of a contribution to the match. The higher gs clueless people think they're good, but the're not.
With egos that dont match their actual skill level, and improper builds that waste their gs potential, these people are the worst in that they dont understand why they fail and easily resort to blaming others for their failures.
Its always either the system or some OP class thst screws them over. Never their lack of understanding.
They simply dont understand gs dont mean nuthin' in pvp unless that gs is molded and shaped for pvp.
So when their 20k gs with 25k HP toon gets creamed they naturally flock to these boards and start complaining. The truth be told a simple respec and hefty investment into hp alone would probably increase their pvp efficiency more than two fild.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
So what, like temporary power and tenacity or some such? That's kind of a weird idea but I'm not really sure what you're getting at and maybe that wasn't it. It just seems like it would be a lot easier to put in place a system that makes groups for PvP based on gear score than to do any other possible to thing to make this situation more friendly to all. I mean, wouldn't the high GS people want something like this too, or do they honestly have fun going up against people with literally half their stat ratings?
If he did indeed mean a handicap system then yes that would be an equivalent analogy that would give low gs'ers the tools needed to have a fair chance. Though of course you wouldn't want it to be too strong as that would give a disadvantage to those that suck with high gear. Whether that is the answer is not what I'm going to take sides on. But the way things are right now, it's like someone with a watergun vs someone with a sword. Sure it's possible you can squirt them in the eye, but realistically, he still has a freaking sword. The gap is just too big
The idea has been around, and is easily propagated, but veterans of PvP who've faced similar problems in the past, with many different games, know that it really doesn't solve anything. For one thing, the problem it causes is almost as serious as the problem it may/may not solve.
People like to think that there are always enough people to enjoy PvP, but there are many players throughout the world in MMOGs. Take for the example, when we had a much more ELO in place -- it took 50 minutes to enter and find a single match. These 'tiers' basically divide the player base and limit mutual interaction. The higher your 'base standard for determining tiers" increases, the less people you are going to find, and typically you'll probably meet the same people over and over and over and over again -- if there are enough people to play out a match in the first place. Imagine if you're one of the most famous, "super-high-level" players of the game. How sure are you that you'll be able to find at least 10 of those people on-line at the same time?
IMO, the best solution IMO is the concept of 'dynamic gear performance adjustment', which sort of imposes a buff/debuff to the player performance according to relative differences. Some people hated it, but according to my experience SWTOR's "Bolster" system worked this way and was really done well. Dunno how it is now, but when I used to play in SWTOR, it was quite satisfactory. Just like NW they had only one bracket after reaching full level. Bolster did a lot to help resolve the issues in relative performance. It didn't allow you to be exact same in performance as the highest performing players, but it made you strong enough to matter. Realistically you would be still very hard pressed to win a 1vs1 with such a player if you had low performance, but it at least gave you a chance.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
try to roll other class and see how your perform LOL
Compared to way Guild Wars series handles it, I'd say the Bolster mechanics are actually a pretty well-designed compromise, which, btw, you seem to be already familiar with.
Like said, Guild Wars makes things FAIR on the absolute level. There is no 'gear' in PvP. Oh sure, you have some stuff that goes into the slots, but its all the same. It's basically nothing different to a purely cosmetic junk, hence the end result is the same thing as having no gear at all. This DOES make PvP fair as fair can be, but then it totally makes useless any kind of progressional effort you've put into the game.
On the contrary, the current method NW uses has no limits in terms of matchmaking. Theoretically everyone is free to get as much gear and preparation as they want, but then the matchmaking which mixes up people more or less randomly means you'll be faced with odds which are physically and mechanically impossible to beat.
....
This is where Bolster type of mechanics become a compromise, IMO. People with the highest level of gear are still rewarded for their efforts. They are as powerful as the face value of the equipment they hold. However, if there are people below a certain threshold, then the system compensates to a certain degree to give them at least a fighting chance.
Before I came to NW I've dabbled in SWTOR PvP scene for quite some time, and I've experienced most of the changes until I've quit around 1.5 or 1.6, can't remember. I've seen and experienced enough to witness most every change up until that time and IIRC Bolster changes were the best thing that happened which filled quite a large gap, which simply used to be the gaping hole of frustration that we also witness in NW matchmaking currently. Better geared people are still better. But the lower geared people are at least not so easy ROFLSTOMP as they were. In NW, three totally fresh lv60 players would be slaughtered by a single, BiS GWF, CW, TR, GF...etc etc.. but in SWTOR, fighting a lone BiS level player fighting 2~3 fresh new players would be severely threatening and plain dangerous. Gear does matter, but the relative differences aren't big enough to make you superhuman against lower-geared people.
If anything, the best thing Bolster did was that it managed to make a game that had mixed groupd of well-geared veterans and fresh-new players still reasonably enjoyable -- and I say that is no small feat. It's actually an amazing one. Thanks to Bolster my memories of SWTOR PvP is still very fond and positive.
Would this not be the exact thing we need for NW matchmaking? Instead of making more tiers and dividing player groups?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Hi here, I started myself this month. Main focus PvP. I wanted to make a tread myself but this post sums up pretty much what I wanted to say.
Tried every class up to around level 25, except DC. Maybe my points are not valid but:
TR, CS and SW seem to be doing fine around start
CWF, GF and HR not so much
It's not balanced, not by a long shot, but as long as it works out at top levels it's fine imo.
First love is always the class with the bow & arrows
See you all in game. Good luck!
Chris
Well there are amputees that are certainly impressive and admirable to get past their disabilities. I was personally thinking of one that had a leg prosthetic who could outrun others. But you still get my point :P
Your short post has the most concrete information I have seen on pvp strategy in this game. Its a shame that people who have the know how haven't bothered to write a tutorial of some kind yet. I don't even know how to tell what color my team is for chrissakes! As for map knowledge, forget about it. I haven't stayed alive long enough to have a clue.
When I see the same toons at the campfire every time I get whacked, I know I'm not alone.
In my experience, the community makes the game worthwhile (I'm an old NWN PW module builder, and my world wouldn't have been squat without the players). If you want the pvp community to grow, help out the new people. Give us a comprehensive strategy guide so we aren't going to our slaughter completely unarmed, and everyone can have more fun with this.
Alright, back to my daily humiliation for AD...
This seems like a well-meaning troll attempt. As others have suggested, try replicating those results as a 9k gs any other class, then come back and tell us how balanced things are.
Well I had a few matches where gear was a problem but overall it's still pretty fun.
No, I did not want this to be considered a "troll" thread or "troll" post. I'm no troll.
If I have extra time I'll try another class that I like and post results, but that'll be a while. I can't think of any other class I'd want to try, other than CW but I never liked magic.
Any recommendations? I'll let you guys decide what my alt will be.
EDIT: The one class that completely destroys me is CW, so I might roll with that, so I can get two extremes (long range = cw, close range = tr) and figure out the best way to counter myself so I know what to look out for.
I got one-shotted by a cw while I was contesting a node, and I never said "what just happend" so fast in my life
Or you know like people amputating team members so they can leave match and not lose rating or k/d.