These are bad excuses. There are surely a lot of teenagers playing f2p games, sadly, only parents can fix them (hint: by removing internet privilege). But for adults such behaviour is not excusable. This is not okay, and you simply enable toxicity when saying that it's alright, it's what all people do. I'm, for one, surely don't want to enable toxic people, or reward undeserving people with my time (they happen to participate in group PvE as well, since it's PvE-heavy game). So options are either to avoid a whole part of the game just because immature and vile people tend to infest it, or to invest my precious time and money in the game with a less toxic audience. Unless, of course, Cryptic devs get their wits together and come up with the decision to this problem - it's just as important as fixing bugs and making new content, if not more so. For MMOs other people are content, after all.
Actually, banning the nasty folks outright will help a lot: unlike gold sellers, they have to level up their chars from the scratch to start getting the kicks of PvP, so after few round of nuking they will get the hint.
It's not an excuse, nor am I okay with it. But in as much as I'm not okay with dying one day I don't think there's any way around it.
There are generally two options for quality control in an MMO community. The first is you pay for GM's to moderate the game. Something I've only seen done in skeletal formations when it comes to F2P games and so; many violations tend to go unchecked.
The other is putting the power in a group of piers much like League of Legends does with varying success. Back in the day a pier based community control was much more viable, I'm talking in the 90's. I myself was a GM for EverQuest, but even back then a couple of Executive GMs got sued and fired for dispensing items to players for money, and those were the guys who got paid to GM.
Anything over a 24 hour ban for behavior is fairly immoral, everyone has a bad day and the flaws in this game can be fairly frustrating. Threats are another story of course. I also agree that they should work on current problems before adding more content.
Every PVP match would have a ref. The ref would have the power to call fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct.
There would be two types of fouls: Unsportsmanlike Conduct, and Flagrant Fouls.
Unsportsmanlike Conduct: trash talking, corpse humping, gang HAMSTER players who ask for 1v1's, etc. You know, what usually happens in PVP matches. Those offenses get a 1 hour ban.
Flagrant Foul: three Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties in a 24-hour period would yield a Flagrant Foul resulting in a 24-hour ban.
1) The scoring system sucks! You can run around on your horse, cap nodes while NOT defending them and get +300 per capture. You could end up with an individual score of 10,000 but have contributed very little to your team since the "points ticked for win" would be relatively low, but your personal score is very high.
- This causes players who are bad, or dont know better, to play the game wrong.
2) The Matchmaking SUCKS! Most games are clear break-aways with 1 team destroying middle, which after 1-2 respawns the enemy just decides its easier to sit in spawn than to fight a pointless match.
- The "team balanced ELO" doesnt work. They need to create actual "tiers" for match making. So when a top tier player Ques, they are only paired with other top players.
3) LeaderBoard/Ranked "Que" is the only way to Que. Not only is ELO broken and exploitable, its just not the best HOW they implemented everything. What they should have is a leaderboard based on class. So GFs compared to other GFs etc.
With a better working ELO system that ONLY compares you against your own CLASS. (its really not that hard to do) and a proper matchmaking system (see #2) would make more balanced games. YES longer Que times but better games.
Also having a non-ranked que would do wonders for casuals. Also a Separate premade Q(see #4)
4) PREMADES. This is again PART of the issue currently. There should be a "solo Q" option as seen above. Where its you Q-ing up and it uses the ELO/Match system to find you 4 party members and ranks you on your solo-Q ELO rank. Or a premade Q option.
Have separate ELOs and separate leaderboards for the two brackets.
Want to know YOUR rank? You can check your class rank (i.e. your rank among other Guardian Fighters) this is only calculated from games where you SOLO-Qd.
Or you can check your Premade ELO. This is ONLY calculated from PREMADE matches. This would be an "all classes" ranking like we have today.
What this tells you, is how good you are at your class when your playing by yourself. Or the Premade Que essentially tells you your "guilds" or "premade teams" rank.
Thats really the goal right? FYI - you will NEVER be able to compare two different classes in the same leaderboards. With the game how it is, there are FAR to many variables. Back in mod 3 the best GF was like 10-15 pages deep. Where as GWFs/HRs were top 10 pages in majority. If THIS were the case. Youd have players who are in the "top GF page" who may have been "25 pages deep" in the "cumulative". Its just not "fair" to put two classes against eachother.
5) Losing Rank by winning. Another MAJOR issue in the ELO calculations that needs to be addressed. You should never LOSE by winning. It just defeats the purpose.
Overall it SHOULD look like this. Want to Que for PVP? You have 3 choices:
1) Ranked Solo-Q PVP: Cant be grouped. Affects your rank within your "Class-only" ranking.
2) Un-ranked PVP: Can be grouped. Has NO matchmaking, does not affect elo/rank. (basically PRE-mod 3 pvp)
3) Ranked Premade PVP: Must be in a group of 5. ONLY pits you against other Premades. Affects your PREMADE rank - as seen on the premade leaderboards.
Now you have alot of options. The ONLY thing you cant do is que with 2-4 players for a ranked game. You can un-ranked Que if youd like. Unfortunately thats the cost of balanced games TBH.
The only risk you have with solo-Q is you never know who you will get. Thats why the above would also be VERY key. A good matchmaking "tier" system.
+1 Bro, to all the above. There are numerous ways to achieve this goal. It would be awesome to see it reached, I want real PM's only thus a 5 toon team Q would prevent me running into other teams that are solo Qing and are a poor matchup. It would make it better for everyone involved.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
+1 Bro, to all the above. There are numerous ways to achieve this goal. It would be awesome to see it reached, I want real PM's only thus a 5 toon team Q would prevent me running into other teams that are solo Qing and are a poor matchup. It would make it better for everyone involved.
As much as I would love to keep an option allowing players to play ranked PVP with 2-3 buddies. I just dont see a feasible way to allow that along with ranked PVP. Even if you include a "tier" system, 3 players coordinating versus pugs, its gonna be hard to lose with 3 people together.
Want to increase your individual rank on your CLASS leaderboards? Solo Q and prove your worth. This way you cant rely or have teammates carry you, thus giving you a very close (or better) idea of your REAL "rank" in pvp.
Want to Q with 2 or 3 buddies and mess around? Un-ranked PVP Q.
Want to play serious games with a 5 man team and pit yourself against the best? Do a premade Q thats ranked. I guess youd also have the option to do un-ranked Q for this as well too...
Seems like it just offers the best options and solves alot of problems.
seems fairest. 2 or 3 people (esp 3) can dominate the other team with coordination.
The other day I ran into a 3 person premade from a well known guild. I asked if they queued together as a premade or individually and just ended up together. The person says "we q'd together, but not premade"... So I got to wondering if these people were deluding themselves into thinking they were fighting a fair match :P
Actually think the idea of excessive toxicity of pvp community is overblown. Yes, there's raging and sore loserism/bad winners, but don't see it any worse than in pvp. Have seen a lot more drama out of someone picking need instead of greed in dungeon run than I ever have in a pvp match.
Простая Кавказская девушка я, Но все же прошу послушать меня, Скажу вам-довольно огня и войны, Ведь мы же Кавказцы-мы духом сильны!
Possible toxicity is the natural result from foregone wins due to imba classes. When one red of an OP class cannot be killed by four guys of similar gs but belonging to not-OP classes, of course this will have unfortunate follow-ups in chat, this ingame forum, and external independant discussion places.
i do alot of pvp and i so many times 2 cleric togheter impossible to kill. That can be ok.
now i played against this cleric that was impossible to kill even in 4 ppl and while surviving he can kill me.
You can see the video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF_a...ature=youtu.be
Just tell me if this class is balanced or not, ther's nothing bad about the gameplay, this game is CLASS PLAY.
The cleric is 20k gs while i'm 21k gs.
He have p.vorpal, 1,8k regen 5k power 4k def. 40k hp
I've p.vorpal 9k power 1.6 regen 1.4 def 2.8 critical 3k penetration and was using 2red glyph.
For do a funny pvp what we have to do? Make all class level 60 full leggendary and spend thousand euro and wait for your buff at ONLY some class every patch while quit all other classes? Thanks. If continue like this the pvp is better go another game, and, the present here, played alot of mmorpg, and this one is the first that i see soo HIGH unbalanced for class.
Balance is an achievable thing, even Pokemon game has balance. Plus NWO is supposed to follow Dnd and Dnd is balanced, all the figures and classes and percentages and stats are there, all the devs have to do is to translate that in sounds and pixels.
Possible toxicity is the natural result from foregone wins due to imba classes. When one red of an OP class cannot be killed by four guys of similar gs but belonging to not-OP classes, of course this will have unfortunate follow-ups in chat, this ingame forum, and external independant discussion places.
Balance is an achievable thing, even Pokemon game has balance. Plus NWO is supposed to follow Dnd and Dnd is balanced, all the figures and classes and percentages and stats are there, all the devs have to do is to translate that in sounds and pixels.
Actually I'd say that pnp is inherently imbalanced from the pnp I've played. You take a max level wizard somewhere and have him prepared and he'll devastate armies.
Possible toxicity is the natural result from foregone wins due to imba classes. When one red of an OP class cannot be killed by four guys of similar gs but belonging to not-OP classes, of course this will have unfortunate follow-ups in chat, this ingame forum, and external independant discussion places.
Balance is an achievable thing, even Pokemon game has balance. Plus NWO is supposed to follow Dnd and Dnd is balanced, all the figures and classes and percentages and stats are there, all the devs have to do is to translate that in sounds and pixels.
NW is based on 4E rules but is not bound to them chapter and verse. It's been said that NW follows essentially its own version of D&D rules as approved by WotC.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I had to deal with my first jerk in pvp today. Over voice chat the guy pissed and moaned and trash talked everyone on the team because we weren't all wearing epic gear. I finally got on voice chat and told him to shut the F up and just play the game. Of course that got him cussing me out even worse.
Kind of sad when people act like elitest jerks - I can understand why peopel wouldn't want to deal with it and just quit.
I had to deal with my first jerk in pvp today. Over voice chat the guy pissed and moaned and trash talked everyone on the team because we weren't all wearing epic gear. I finally got on voice chat and told him to shut the F up and just play the game. Of course that got him cussing me out even worse.
Kind of sad when people act like elitest jerks - I can understand why peopel wouldn't want to deal with it and just quit.
Yep, people get MAD when you come in with like 12k gs in level 60 pvp. The obvious solution is gear brackets like the level brackets of 10-59. But then you have longer que times because there are not enough players.
PvP players generally play only pvp and tend to dabble/just grind as necessary, pve. If you give them some "serious" alternate pvp game (like domination tournaments), they will likely do both the tourneys and the normal domination. Normal domination being the only game in town, it is what pvp players do for serious pvp. Iwd is simply another grind and gg is just a horse race, so neither one fills that need for serious competition. If that alternate (like tourneys) existed, you would have hardly any casual (pve) players in a tourney and you would have a lot less toxicity from serious pvpers in domination. So when those two groups came together in regular domination it would not be the hatefest it can be now.
It is up to the players to be less toxic, but it is up to the devs to facilitate that.
Yep, people get MAD when you come in with like 12k gs in level 60 pvp. The obvious solution is gear brackets like the level brackets of 10-59. But then you have longer que times because there are not enough players.
PvP players generally play only pvp and tend to dabble/just grind as necessary, pve. If you give them some "serious" alternate pvp game (like domination tournaments), they will likely do both the tourneys and the normal domination. Normal domination being the only game in town, it is what pvp players do for serious pvp. Iwd is simply another grind and gg is just a horse race, so neither one fills that need for serious competition. If that alternate (like tourneys) existed, you would have hardly any casual (pve) players in a tourney and you would have a lot less toxicity from serious pvpers in domination. So when those two groups came together in regular domination it would not be the hatefest it can be now.
It is up to the players to be less toxic, but it is up to the devs to facilitate that.
Gear brackets cant and wont work. They can easily be manipulated and not to mention things such as TR imbalance. Take a 14k GS TR and he can go up against an 18k GS GWF easily.
So when you implement that GS bracket the TR (for instance) will just be made into even more of a king.
The REAL solution is:
Step 1) Domination Que is split into THREE categories now.
Step 2) Categories are: Ranked Solo-Q. Ranked Premade Q. Unranked Q.
- Ranked Solo Q: Can ONLY Q up solo. These games count towards your individual ELO score.
- Ranked Premade Q: Can ONLY que as a group of 5. These games count towards a SEPERATE ELO score called "premade ELO"
- Unranked Q: THis is the OLD pvp system. basically free for all, can que with any number and it does NO matchmaking.
Step 3) Change the leader boards.
- Ranked Solo Q: This leaderboard compares your ELO to ONLY those of your same CLASS. This can go up or down based on individual Q. This is because each module classes are OP or UP, making it a completely moot point whose where on the boards. What people do want to REALLY know is how they rank against others of their own class.
- Ranked Premade Q: This compares EVERYONES ELO to everyone else (the current ELO leaderboards).
Now this doesnt solve the issue where you have 20k GS players combined with 10k GS players trying to make an "average" of 15k GS. So...
Step 4) Divide the population into 3 tiers.
Tier 3: Bottom 25%
Tier 2: Middle 50%
Tier 1: Top 25%
Now when you que, it will look at your ELO (individual or premade - depending on which Que) and ranks you within that tier system. If Tier 2, you will be matched with ANYONE in the Tier 2 category. NO Tier 1 or Tier 3.
If you are Tier 1, it will wait for a game when it has players that are Tier 1.
Yep, people get MAD when you come in with like 12k gs in level 60 pvp. The obvious solution is gear brackets like the level brackets of 10-59. But then you have longer que times because there are not enough players.
PvP players generally play only pvp and tend to dabble/just grind as necessary, pve. If you give them some "serious" alternate pvp game (like domination tournaments), they will likely do both the tourneys and the normal domination. Normal domination being the only game in town, it is what pvp players do for serious pvp. Iwd is simply another grind and gg is just a horse race, so neither one fills that need for serious competition. If that alternate (like tourneys) existed, you would have hardly any casual (pve) players in a tourney and you would have a lot less toxicity from serious pvpers in domination. So when those two groups came together in regular domination it would not be the hatefest it can be now.
It is up to the players to be less toxic, but it is up to the devs to facilitate that.
Thing is he doesn't even have 12k. Notice he mentions not having epic gear..
Gear brackets cant and wont work. They can easily be manipulated and not to mention things such as TR imbalance. Take a 14k GS TR and he can go up against an 18k GS GWF easily.
So when you implement that GS bracket the TR (for instance) will just be made into even more of a king.
The REAL solution is:
Step 1) Domination Que is split into THREE categories now.
Step 2) Categories are: Ranked Solo-Q. Ranked Premade Q. Unranked Q.
- Ranked Solo Q: Can ONLY Q up solo. These games count towards your individual ELO score.
- Ranked Premade Q: Can ONLY que as a group of 5. These games count towards a SEPERATE ELO score called "premade ELO"
- Unranked Q: THis is the OLD pvp system. basically free for all, can que with any number and it does NO matchmaking.
Step 3) Change the leader boards.
- Ranked Solo Q: This leaderboard compares your ELO to ONLY those of your same CLASS. This can go up or down based on individual Q. This is because each module classes are OP or UP, making it a completely moot point whose where on the boards. What people do want to REALLY know is how they rank against others of their own class.
- Ranked Premade Q: This compares EVERYONES ELO to everyone else (the current ELO leaderboards).
Now this doesnt solve the issue where you have 20k GS players combined with 10k GS players trying to make an "average" of 15k GS. So...
Step 4) Divide the population into 3 tiers.
Tier 3: Bottom 25%
Tier 2: Middle 50%
Tier 1: Top 25%
Now when you que, it will look at your ELO (individual or premade - depending on which Que) and ranks you within that tier system. If Tier 2, you will be matched with ANYONE in the Tier 2 category. NO Tier 1 or Tier 3.
If you are Tier 1, it will wait for a game when it has players that are Tier 1.
This solves ALL the issues.
-
This could work however I don't think it will, because it ignores a fundamental problem of a small group of players queuing for pvp. When I join a few matches, you usually see the same people in every 2 out 3 matches. This is part of why the current elo doesn't work and why most proposed solutions wouldn't work. So if such solutions were put in they'd increase queue time dramatically. How long would it take for even more of the pvp population to leave if queue times were averaging 30-60mins?
The only real answer to PvP in PvE based MMO's is to put folks in vanilla gear/powers against one another. In theory, this would immediately "fix" all balance issues by making it a skills only competition.
There seriously needs to be some sort of matchmaking in PvP because the way it throws people together randomly makes for some of the most un-fun PvP gameplay I've ever seen in an MMO. I'll either be twice the gearscore of the person I'm fighting so I'm just standing there healing myself with at-wills and lifesteal while they poke me over and over again. Or else I'm up against someone with double my gearscore and now I'm getting oneshot through an empowered astral shield.
PvP would actually be fun if it were less about ridiculously imbalanced gear matchups and more about putting people with similar tools together so they all have a fair chance.
I had to deal with my first jerk in pvp today. Over voice chat the guy pissed and moaned and trash talked everyone on the team because we weren't all wearing epic gear. I finally got on voice chat and told him to shut the F up and just play the game. Of course that got him cussing me out even worse.
Kind of sad when people act like elitest jerks - I can understand why peopel wouldn't want to deal with it and just quit.
Right click, ignore. He can't talk to you anymore.
Comments
It's not an excuse, nor am I okay with it. But in as much as I'm not okay with dying one day I don't think there's any way around it.
There are generally two options for quality control in an MMO community. The first is you pay for GM's to moderate the game. Something I've only seen done in skeletal formations when it comes to F2P games and so; many violations tend to go unchecked.
The other is putting the power in a group of piers much like League of Legends does with varying success. Back in the day a pier based community control was much more viable, I'm talking in the 90's. I myself was a GM for EverQuest, but even back then a couple of Executive GMs got sued and fired for dispensing items to players for money, and those were the guys who got paid to GM.
Anything over a 24 hour ban for behavior is fairly immoral, everyone has a bad day and the flaws in this game can be fairly frustrating. Threats are another story of course. I also agree that they should work on current problems before adding more content.
Every PVP match would have a ref. The ref would have the power to call fouls for unsportsmanlike conduct.
There would be two types of fouls: Unsportsmanlike Conduct, and Flagrant Fouls.
Unsportsmanlike Conduct: trash talking, corpse humping, gang HAMSTER players who ask for 1v1's, etc. You know, what usually happens in PVP matches. Those offenses get a 1 hour ban.
Flagrant Foul: three Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties in a 24-hour period would yield a Flagrant Foul resulting in a 24-hour ban.
+1 Bro, to all the above. There are numerous ways to achieve this goal. It would be awesome to see it reached, I want real PM's only thus a 5 toon team Q would prevent me running into other teams that are solo Qing and are a poor matchup. It would make it better for everyone involved.
As much as I would love to keep an option allowing players to play ranked PVP with 2-3 buddies. I just dont see a feasible way to allow that along with ranked PVP. Even if you include a "tier" system, 3 players coordinating versus pugs, its gonna be hard to lose with 3 people together.
Thats wy I think keeping it as
1) Solo Q - Ranked.
2) Premade Q - Ranked
3) Unranked - FFA
Makes the most sense.
Want to increase your individual rank on your CLASS leaderboards? Solo Q and prove your worth. This way you cant rely or have teammates carry you, thus giving you a very close (or better) idea of your REAL "rank" in pvp.
Want to Q with 2 or 3 buddies and mess around? Un-ranked PVP Q.
Want to play serious games with a 5 man team and pit yourself against the best? Do a premade Q thats ranked. I guess youd also have the option to do un-ranked Q for this as well too...
Seems like it just offers the best options and solves alot of problems.
seems fairest. 2 or 3 people (esp 3) can dominate the other team with coordination.
The other day I ran into a 3 person premade from a well known guild. I asked if they queued together as a premade or individually and just ended up together. The person says "we q'd together, but not premade"... So I got to wondering if these people were deluding themselves into thinking they were fighting a fair match :P
Balance is an achievable thing, even Pokemon game has balance. Plus NWO is supposed to follow Dnd and Dnd is balanced, all the figures and classes and percentages and stats are there, all the devs have to do is to translate that in sounds and pixels.
NW is based on 4E rules but is not bound to them chapter and verse. It's been said that NW follows essentially its own version of D&D rules as approved by WotC.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Kind of sad when people act like elitest jerks - I can understand why peopel wouldn't want to deal with it and just quit.
Yep, people get MAD when you come in with like 12k gs in level 60 pvp. The obvious solution is gear brackets like the level brackets of 10-59. But then you have longer que times because there are not enough players.
PvP players generally play only pvp and tend to dabble/just grind as necessary, pve. If you give them some "serious" alternate pvp game (like domination tournaments), they will likely do both the tourneys and the normal domination. Normal domination being the only game in town, it is what pvp players do for serious pvp. Iwd is simply another grind and gg is just a horse race, so neither one fills that need for serious competition. If that alternate (like tourneys) existed, you would have hardly any casual (pve) players in a tourney and you would have a lot less toxicity from serious pvpers in domination. So when those two groups came together in regular domination it would not be the hatefest it can be now.
It is up to the players to be less toxic, but it is up to the devs to facilitate that.
Gear brackets cant and wont work. They can easily be manipulated and not to mention things such as TR imbalance. Take a 14k GS TR and he can go up against an 18k GS GWF easily.
So when you implement that GS bracket the TR (for instance) will just be made into even more of a king.
The REAL solution is:
Step 1) Domination Que is split into THREE categories now.
Step 2) Categories are: Ranked Solo-Q. Ranked Premade Q. Unranked Q.
- Ranked Solo Q: Can ONLY Q up solo. These games count towards your individual ELO score.
- Ranked Premade Q: Can ONLY que as a group of 5. These games count towards a SEPERATE ELO score called "premade ELO"
- Unranked Q: THis is the OLD pvp system. basically free for all, can que with any number and it does NO matchmaking.
Step 3) Change the leader boards.
- Ranked Solo Q: This leaderboard compares your ELO to ONLY those of your same CLASS. This can go up or down based on individual Q. This is because each module classes are OP or UP, making it a completely moot point whose where on the boards. What people do want to REALLY know is how they rank against others of their own class.
- Ranked Premade Q: This compares EVERYONES ELO to everyone else (the current ELO leaderboards).
Now this doesnt solve the issue where you have 20k GS players combined with 10k GS players trying to make an "average" of 15k GS. So...
Step 4) Divide the population into 3 tiers.
Tier 3: Bottom 25%
Tier 2: Middle 50%
Tier 1: Top 25%
Now when you que, it will look at your ELO (individual or premade - depending on which Que) and ranks you within that tier system. If Tier 2, you will be matched with ANYONE in the Tier 2 category. NO Tier 1 or Tier 3.
If you are Tier 1, it will wait for a game when it has players that are Tier 1.
This solves ALL the issues.
-
Thing is he doesn't even have 12k. Notice he mentions not having epic gear..
This could work however I don't think it will, because it ignores a fundamental problem of a small group of players queuing for pvp. When I join a few matches, you usually see the same people in every 2 out 3 matches. This is part of why the current elo doesn't work and why most proposed solutions wouldn't work. So if such solutions were put in they'd increase queue time dramatically. How long would it take for even more of the pvp population to leave if queue times were averaging 30-60mins?
PvP would actually be fun if it were less about ridiculously imbalanced gear matchups and more about putting people with similar tools together so they all have a fair chance.
Right click, ignore. He can't talk to you anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWBfLOZ2CjQ
This thread seems to have the aim at putting a control on how people act in PvP. Don't forget who your peers are in the game.