Haha, lovely. I originally played Magelord for the reasons you spoke of and I'm well aware of the CW class as a whole. My specialty is the Renegade class. quite possibly the most expensive class overall.
I'd fix your problem with "lag" and similar with a simple Shield installment in Q|E|R and fix the problem exponentially. In my cases whenever it "lagged" - the thing which saved me was spamming control-based spells + shifting around and avoiding. Standing still while ten mobs pummel me to death, disabling my casting time - nope. Red circles will disable your casting time on pretty much anything you want to cast.
And regardless of how good your SS build is, you will have to sacrifice DPS if you want sustain. It's that simple and you needn't any math to pinpoint that out for you that Wizards are primarily INT/CHA/WIZ builds. There's no point in investing in Armor/HP unless you really want tankier class, which you'd fix by choosing a Race other than Tiefling which gains more by investing in CON. And you want a CON belt, too. As a Renegade I put shield only when I enter Epic Lair of Lostmauth given that I run it with a couple of TRs or a couple of HRs, which is usually the case, but even that is history now. As a Renegade you have the sustain to spam at-wills and you want to keep spamming the at-wills.
Point is, if you go one way to build a CW, you have to use it's maximum values. Adding just 100 Power to one slot won't make any big significant difference between a person who doesn't have it, and given the silly amount of DPS and buff/debuff values of a Renegade SS CW stating that you need more AC/HP only means that you want to go full OP on the class being constantly in the heat of the battle, spamming all encounters while forgetting to utilize your Team power overall. It'd make more sense to put AC on a PvP build rather than on a PvE build, especially if you are the "cw guru".
I do not support "single-player" mentality, neither does the Draconic gear for that matter, and a good GF is always welcomed in my party for as long as they debuff and i wouldn't overuse their ability to take the beating for me.
Unfortunately CW's are generally glass cannons unwillingly and CW's generally lost a lot of good controlling skill which was the holy trinity of any good CW. While I do understand your necessity to play more carefully I don't think that you'll need to do that if you play as a Renegade. Use the control to keep the mobs away from your spine and you'll do fine.
Thanks for the tips/hints about the "Philosophy of AC", but it's a waste of sheer 10% unresistant bonus DPS on EACH power, which, from my point of view, affects buff/debuff ratio as well. We'll see when I get that beholder artifact.
As for you, you're entitled to do whatever you please. Apparently you don't want to hear the reason and I do support the experimentation with the CW. After all, you'll forget about using it soon enough and leave it to the people who actually do benefit greatly from the AC itself. If you keep convincing yourself that you're going to get uber-def, you're terribly mistaken.
In fact, shield is much more useful as a spell and you don't need to invest anything in it for the "one-hit-kill situations", and you'll also kill the boss earlier with dots and such which happen without you having to stand on a solitary piece of texture in any MOD4-5 content.
As I say, use the shield, walk in lava.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Are you proposing to get the entire set? I suppose that all the stats individually work for your build so it's not like they're terrible choices, but I read that the 3-set bonus ended up being a joke. Sorry, I can't find the post or I'd link it.
Haha, lovely. I originally played Magelord for the reasons you spoke of and I'm well aware of the CW class as a whole. My specialty is the Renegade class. quite possibly the most expensive class overall.
I'd fix your problem with "lag" and similar with a simple Shield installment in Q|E|R and fix the problem exponentially. In my cases whenever it "lagged" - the thing which saved me was spamming control-based spells + shifting around and avoiding. Standing still while ten mobs pummel me to death, disabling my casting time - nope. Red circles will disable your casting time on pretty much anything you want to cast.
And regardless of how good your SS build is, you will have to sacrifice DPS if you want sustain. It's that simple and you needn't any math to pinpoint that out for you that Wizards are primarily INT/CHA/WIZ builds. There's no point in investing in Armor/HP unless you really want tankier class, which you'd fix by choosing a Race other than Tiefling which gains more by investing in CON. And you want a CON belt, too. As a Renegade I put shield only when I enter Epic Lair of Lostmauth given that I run it with a couple of TRs or a couple of HRs, which is usually the case, but even that is history now. As a Renegade you have the sustain to spam at-wills and you want to keep spamming the at-wills.
Point is, if you go one way to build a CW, you have to use it's maximum values. Adding just 100 Power to one slot won't make any big significant difference between a person who doesn't have it, and given the silly amount of DPS and buff/debuff values of a Renegade SS CW stating that you need more AC/HP only means that you want to go full OP on the class being constantly in the heat of the battle, spamming all encounters while forgetting to utilize your Team power overall. It'd make more sense to put AC on a PvP build rather than on a PvE build, especially if you are the "cw guru".
I do not support "single-player" mentality, neither does the Draconic gear for that matter, and a good GF is always welcomed in my party for as long as they debuff and i wouldn't overuse their ability to take the beating for me.
Unfortunately CW's are generally glass cannons unwillingly and CW's generally lost a lot of good controlling skill which was the holy trinity of any good CW. While I do understand your necessity to play more carefully I don't think that you'll need to do that if you play as a Renegade. Use the control to keep the mobs away from your spine and you'll do fine.
Thanks for the tips/hints about the "Philosophy of AC", but it's a waste of sheer 10% unresistant bonus DPS on EACH power, which, from my point of view, affects buff/debuff ratio as well. We'll see when I get that beholder artifact.
As for you, you're entitled to do whatever you please. Apparently you don't want to hear the reason and I do support the experimentation with the CW. After all, you'll forget about using it soon enough and leave it to the people who actually do benefit greatly from the AC itself. If you keep convincing yourself that you're going to get uber-def, you're terribly mistaken.
In fact, shield is much more useful as a spell and you don't need to invest anything in it for the "one-hit-kill situations", and you'll also kill the boss earlier with dots and such which happen without you having to stand on a solitary piece of texture in any MOD4-5 content.
As I say, use the shield, walk in lava.
I also dont support selfish mentality, in fact paingiver is a stupid metter. Thats why I allways played with the build that makes runs shorter, not the build to top paingiver. And now I play with HV renegade because of that, like you.
I understand your position, but you are ignoring that since mod 5 you dont need to sacrifice anything to get defense or hp with 5 personalized items (5 more defensive slots). You dont need CON or CON belt or other race. Just nothing. You can get 12k power and have every other stat in soft cap.
Use shield in Lostmauth? well that is really a big problem in a CW performance, losing a spell slot. I never had to use it even runing with any team combination. That will kill your DPS and control, You are puting yourself in evidence using shield and at the same time saying that being more tanky is a big fail. No words. Shield is only usefull in pvp.
I upgraded both cloacks to legendary, and tryed them. I doubt you even bothered to try other thing than black ice. And I didnt say one is better than other, just answered to the OP what I picked and why.
I'll add my two cents in response to the opening premise. I chose the Black Ice Cloak primarily for the stats. I didn't expect the AP gain to make much of a difference. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it actually makes a noticeable difference, and in a very important way.
I always, always cast my Daily spells when I have Eye of the Storm up. Given how big a damage boost critical hits are it just makes sense to always get a critical hit instead of using it whenever it is ready. Using this philosophy I would usually hold on to Daily abilities for a fair amount of time until the next EoTS triggered. Once I equipped the Black Ice Cloak I started noticing that many times my Daily is ready right when EoTS is active which allows me to use it immediately. Then the next time EoTS triggers...I have another Daily ready. While spamming Encounters and At-wills in a fight I can now synchronize my Daily's and Eye of the Storm. That wasn't possible for me without the Black Ice Cloak because I just couldn't build AP fast enough to always have a Daily ready.
So while the math may show that the Black Ice Cloak will only give me one extra Daily every 75 seconds, the reality is that it reduces my time between Daily's by 10-15 seconds, which is a huge DPS boost.
Are you proposing to get the entire set? I suppose that all the stats individually work for your build so it's not like they're terrible choices, but I read that the 3-set bonus ended up being a joke. Sorry, I can't find the post or I'd link it.
I figured that it might be a dead end getting those, however why not? I might even ge blue dragon artifact for the sake of extra sudden storm execution (hopefully it does proc the oppressor feat for SS) Unless I see it for myself I wouldn't know it, now, wouldn't I?
However, as primarily stated earlier, I fathom to get more Combat Advantage and a wee bit of CHA bonus.
I've been playing some Draconic Templar set a bit ago with white and blue dragon glyphs. It feels like a combination of Magelord + Draconic Set, so for survivability PvE-wise I'd definitely go for it before getting the jeweling profession to the point where it counts to get extra def slots.
But the overall bonus is a bit wanky. 4 items in the set and only 5% critical severity off from enemies? And each is like that, each class that is... Weird decision, but a powerful set non-the-less, especially if you need a lot of Crit on a CW.
To my surprise, the Draconic Glyphs became at least 2000% more expensive from their earlier days. I guess that nobody's farming Shot anymore.
you dont need to sacrifice anything to get defense or hp with 5 personalized items (5 more defensive slots)
You see, this is the problem - you talk strictly from the end-game gear position which is a PvE- overkill no matter how you look at it. It's still not very viable to get the AC bonus and that's about it that I'm going to say. I do enjoy extra Ap gain all the time because my play is completely about the appropriate timing for very quick execution. Imagine when I place Lathander's Dew on top of what I'd put Sunlord's pot, and my "speeeeed" build where I completely disregarded pretty much most of my "dps" which I had as a Thaum for the sake of faster play. I play very fast with Steal time on spell mastery, positioning myself always in appropriate direction to execute Sudden Storm and completely freeze enemies for a brief moment.
If I wanted to play carefully I'd still go for the black ice cloak, lol. If I wanted to play PvP, that's a completely different story.
And I don't know what else I may add. Frankly, this is getting tedious. Thank you for reading, though. Appreciated.
also, what abaddon wrote. That was my play for the past...two months, only executed by using pots. Timing is the key word. Using the full potential of the EotS is the alfa and omega of the SS CW. And using like, 4 spells, for DPS while EotS up while executing the daily only to get it almost completely filled 95% let's say, which you fill by using chill/arcane left click + CoI while EotS is active, bam, full daily, execute...almost filled up, next mob group, repeat).
And this is best evident in maps such as ShoT.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,262Arc User
You see, this is the problem - you talk strictly from the end-game gear position which is a PvE- overkill no matter how you look at it. It's still not very viable to get the AC bonus and that's about it that I'm going to say. I do enjoy extra Ap gain all the time because my play is completely about the appropriate timing for very quick execution. Imagine when I place Lathander's Dew on top of what I'd put Sunlord's pot, and my "speeeeed" build where I completely disregarded pretty much most of my "dps" which I had as a Thaum for the sake of faster play. I play very fast with Steal time on spell mastery, positioning myself always in appropriate direction to execute Sudden Storm and completely freeze enemies for a brief moment.
If I wanted to play carefully I'd still go for the black ice cloak, lol. If I wanted to play PvP, that's a completely different story.
And I don't know what else I may add. Frankly, this is getting tedious. Thank you for reading, though. Appreciated.
also, what abaddon wrote. That was my play for the past...two months, only executed by using pots. Timing is the key word. Using the full potential of the EotS is the alfa and omega of the SS CW. And using like, 4 spells, for DPS while EotS up while executing the daily only to get it almost completely filled 95% let's say, which you fill by using chill/arcane left click + CoI while EotS is active, bam, full daily, execute...almost filled up, next mob group, repeat).
And this is best evident in maps such as ShoT.
Yes I talk about end-game gear, thats why we can have different feelings but anyway personalized gear is available for anyone just upgrading jewelcrafting to level 20.
Now you are doing what you should do in the first post, explaining why you enjoy black ice cloack and this is what helps the OP and how you earn respect from others. Not saying "this is wrong, that is bad, this guy have no idea"
Black ice is the "default and easy option" that is for sure, but depending on your playstile (and gear level) , you may enjoy Lathander, because you already have 1 daily in each encounter in SoT or eLoL without it.
Personally, I don't think that having 5 personalized rings is viable. You are bound to go over the armor pen cap. Especially if you use black ice belt/neck
As for the black ice cloak, I got a question. Is the ap gain from it affect by ap increase stats (recovery ie)?
Personally, I don't think that having 5 personalized rings is viable. You are bound to go over the armor pen cap. Especially if you use black ice belt/neck
As for the black ice cloak, I got a question. Is the ap gain from it affect by ap increase stats (recovery ie)?
Just use a couple of Personalized rings that don't add AP. There are 2 other choices that fit the bill.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
2 artifacts (350 x2)
1 cloak of black ice (298)
1 belt of black ice (298)
1 arcane eye of the golden dragon (416)
2 boons (450)
1 ancient necklace (168, on the ioun stone with eldritch runestone in def)
1 gemmed exquisite shirt (77)
1 gemmed exquisite pants (77)
2495 total armor pen, it's missing a grand total of 45 armor pen
The rings that don't add AP don't have power, which make them unusable
I disagree. I have 10k power, 1.8 Crit, and 1k lifesteal. The Crit/Lifesteal ring will help me out quite a bit. Now that Storm Spell is tied ONLY to crits I need to pump my Crit up a bit more and the extra lifesteal will help as well.
I've been on the "MOAR POWER" bandwagon for several modules now based on the math of how damage is calculated. So I get the mentality. But I think reducing it to something as simple "no power = HAMSTER" is going too far.
Well, I can understand since your crit is oddly low but I'm at something like 2.8k right now and I'm missing close to 1000 crit from my gear (waiting on double rp weekend to refine).
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I said that the rings that don't have armor penetration don't have power. Meaning that only the ring with armor penetration has the power stat.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited December 2014
My bad. But power isn't everything. It diminished like any other stat, just in a non-obvious way. That's why the old "stack power to the sky" advice isn't exactly correct.
My bad. But power isn't everything. It diminished like any other stat, just in a non-obvious way. That's why the old "stack power to the sky" advice isn't exactly correct.
Power doesn't diminish in value no matter how high it is. It's the other stats that gain value compared to power. That said, for those stats to come ahead of power, you'd need to have them at a ridiculously low amount or have power at a ridiculously (impossible to attain atm) high amount.
I'm pretty much at a point where 1 point of power is equal to 2 points of anything else.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited December 2014
That's not true. Power affects based damage. The more power you have, the lower it's actually affect is on overall DPS. Every point in power gives you the same increase to BASE damage, but that's not the same as increase in OVERALL damage.
You'll see that the actual effectiveness of power diminishes at higher levels. At lower levels 100 points of power will give you about .65% increase in Damage. At higher levels, that number is closer to 0.35%. It's why at higher levels, you need to start paying more attention to your crit stat again, as it's likely you'll be UNDER on crit.
It IS entirely possible to have too much power, in relation to your other stats.
Considering that I'll be very close to having a baseline of: 3800 crit, 3650 recovery and 2500 armor pen (slightly under the cap), power is by far my best stat.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited December 2014
That's good for you. But to say that power doesn't diminish isn't accurate.
Imperial is obviously optimal for PvE.
Defense/mitigation is useless when you have lifesteal.
Armor pen is useless because you should have all you need from other sources.
Hehehe. Yes it does, it's just not as noticeable as with other values.
You should expect that an end-game build person with 9-10k Power isn't really gaining much when compared to a person who has 6-7k Power with the same exact build. The numbers will be higher for around a million but the key factor to look at is the weapon and timing.
CW-wise, one million more damage isn't a lot.
But in the case of GWF, Power can be a substantial ally. Going for more than 10k Power can improve their gameplay substantially, and the same can be said for the TRs.
The point is simple, as a CW you get a lot of smaller number values which are, for the most part, not worth the investment.
Storm Spell + Oppressive + Steal Time are worth the investment. Small number spells do benefit, of course, but not as much as the big number spells. So you'll notice a significantly bigger damage increase for someone who crits 50k DPS than someone who crits 2-9k dps with a tick of the Conduit of Ice.
CW's can rarely match TR/SW and even GWF in dungeons where there's a lot of single targets, such as the Epic Lair of Lostmauth. Regardless of the build, there's just not enough awesome single target spells to make the use of the power potential. A 10k Power CW in eLoL will have a hard time competing with a 6k Power/4kCrit SW who unleashes the fury.
Now, in CN you may get a fathomable understanding why the Conduit of Ice works flawlessly on spell mastery, but if you build-up the chill too fast you'll end up your crit-tick, frozen targets receive no Damage, ergo no Storm Spell proc. A terrible choice tbh, which is why I choose to go with Steal Time on spell mastery until the current patch. Now, we'll see just how good is Chilling Advantage. I already have around 3k Crit, and if I put Draconic Templar I get around 4-5k Crit easily (just for testing purposes of the chilling advantage).
And even without the most optimal build or most optimal spell rotation, because you don't want to play like a robot all the time, you might again outDPS anyone as long as you know what you're doing (not indicating that you should rush before everyone to get some paingiver).
Anyway, Watermelon Sorbet is the single most useful buff for a CW, especially in combination with Corellon's Blood elixir. Apparently, Sorbet's terribly cheap on AH now, around 40-50k?! The higher your Power is, more Power you'll receive from a Sorbet.
Downside of it is the fact that once you fall, it's gone. You have to consume it again.
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I have read this entire thread from start to finish and have not heard any arguments from the perspective of playing MoF. Anybody wanna add some insight? I play MoF and am also torn on which artifact cloak to spend gobs of farming time refining up to legendary.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited December 2014
I chose Black Ice cloak for some arp as my MoF wears HV.
If your armor pen is at 24.3% without a neck item, and your defense good (31.9% dmg reduction) and still wanted faster AP would you go with the Imperial Dragon Cloak over the Cloak of Black Ice? I should add my recovery might be considered low (2,341).
If your armor pen is at 24.3% without a neck item, and your defense good (31.9% dmg reduction) and still wanted faster AP would you go with the Imperial Dragon Cloak over the Cloak of Black Ice? I should add my recovery might be considered low (2,341).
Thank you!
Fully upgraded Cloak of Black Ice. While in combat, meaning that while's anything focusing you, you will get AP ratio. On top of that, you may get Three strong Recovery/APgain buffs or use them as the alternative method to that of the Black Ice artifact belt.
Watermelon Sorbet (Works better if you have higher Recovery, though, since it's %bonus10/baseRECOVERY) Lathander's Dew (Works the same way like Black Ice cloak, only slightly slower) Sunlord's Gift Elixir (Quite probably the best one of the above-mentioned)
Alternatively, you may get Wisdom belt for the increased AP ratio and bonus control duration.
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jeffro9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited December 2014
I went with Lathander's because I like to PvP, and if I was going to lose tenacity, I wanted to maintain some defensive stats on the neck. I also have the cleric sigil, so it is not like I am lacking AP. On top of that, there is no other place to get extra AC, so it is kind of unique, which I like.
If your armor pen is at 24.3% without a neck item, and your defense good (31.9% dmg reduction) and still wanted faster AP would you go with the Imperial Dragon Cloak over the Cloak of Black Ice? I should add my recovery might be considered low (2,341).
Thank you!
Of course.
If you have more than 24% arPen, Imperial > Black Ice.
Comments
I'd fix your problem with "lag" and similar with a simple Shield installment in Q|E|R and fix the problem exponentially. In my cases whenever it "lagged" - the thing which saved me was spamming control-based spells + shifting around and avoiding. Standing still while ten mobs pummel me to death, disabling my casting time - nope. Red circles will disable your casting time on pretty much anything you want to cast.
And regardless of how good your SS build is, you will have to sacrifice DPS if you want sustain. It's that simple and you needn't any math to pinpoint that out for you that Wizards are primarily INT/CHA/WIZ builds. There's no point in investing in Armor/HP unless you really want tankier class, which you'd fix by choosing a Race other than Tiefling which gains more by investing in CON. And you want a CON belt, too. As a Renegade I put shield only when I enter Epic Lair of Lostmauth given that I run it with a couple of TRs or a couple of HRs, which is usually the case, but even that is history now. As a Renegade you have the sustain to spam at-wills and you want to keep spamming the at-wills.
Point is, if you go one way to build a CW, you have to use it's maximum values. Adding just 100 Power to one slot won't make any big significant difference between a person who doesn't have it, and given the silly amount of DPS and buff/debuff values of a Renegade SS CW stating that you need more AC/HP only means that you want to go full OP on the class being constantly in the heat of the battle, spamming all encounters while forgetting to utilize your Team power overall. It'd make more sense to put AC on a PvP build rather than on a PvE build, especially if you are the "cw guru".
I do not support "single-player" mentality, neither does the Draconic gear for that matter, and a good GF is always welcomed in my party for as long as they debuff and i wouldn't overuse their ability to take the beating for me.
Unfortunately CW's are generally glass cannons unwillingly and CW's generally lost a lot of good controlling skill which was the holy trinity of any good CW. While I do understand your necessity to play more carefully I don't think that you'll need to do that if you play as a Renegade. Use the control to keep the mobs away from your spine and you'll do fine.
Thanks for the tips/hints about the "Philosophy of AC", but it's a waste of sheer 10% unresistant bonus DPS on EACH power, which, from my point of view, affects buff/debuff ratio as well. We'll see when I get that beholder artifact.
As for you, you're entitled to do whatever you please. Apparently you don't want to hear the reason and I do support the experimentation with the CW. After all, you'll forget about using it soon enough and leave it to the people who actually do benefit greatly from the AC itself. If you keep convincing yourself that you're going to get uber-def, you're terribly mistaken.
In fact, shield is much more useful as a spell and you don't need to invest anything in it for the "one-hit-kill situations", and you'll also kill the boss earlier with dots and such which happen without you having to stand on a solitary piece of texture in any MOD4-5 content.
As I say, use the shield, walk in lava.
Are you proposing to get the entire set? I suppose that all the stats individually work for your build so it's not like they're terrible choices, but I read that the 3-set bonus ended up being a joke. Sorry, I can't find the post or I'd link it.
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I understand your position, but you are ignoring that since mod 5 you dont need to sacrifice anything to get defense or hp with 5 personalized items (5 more defensive slots). You dont need CON or CON belt or other race. Just nothing. You can get 12k power and have every other stat in soft cap.
Use shield in Lostmauth? well that is really a big problem in a CW performance, losing a spell slot. I never had to use it even runing with any team combination. That will kill your DPS and control, You are puting yourself in evidence using shield and at the same time saying that being more tanky is a big fail. No words. Shield is only usefull in pvp.
I upgraded both cloacks to legendary, and tryed them. I doubt you even bothered to try other thing than black ice. And I didnt say one is better than other, just answered to the OP what I picked and why.
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I always, always cast my Daily spells when I have Eye of the Storm up. Given how big a damage boost critical hits are it just makes sense to always get a critical hit instead of using it whenever it is ready. Using this philosophy I would usually hold on to Daily abilities for a fair amount of time until the next EoTS triggered. Once I equipped the Black Ice Cloak I started noticing that many times my Daily is ready right when EoTS is active which allows me to use it immediately. Then the next time EoTS triggers...I have another Daily ready. While spamming Encounters and At-wills in a fight I can now synchronize my Daily's and Eye of the Storm. That wasn't possible for me without the Black Ice Cloak because I just couldn't build AP fast enough to always have a Daily ready.
So while the math may show that the Black Ice Cloak will only give me one extra Daily every 75 seconds, the reality is that it reduces my time between Daily's by 10-15 seconds, which is a huge DPS boost.
I figured that it might be a dead end getting those, however why not? I might even ge blue dragon artifact for the sake of extra sudden storm execution (hopefully it does proc the oppressor feat for SS) Unless I see it for myself I wouldn't know it, now, wouldn't I?
However, as primarily stated earlier, I fathom to get more Combat Advantage and a wee bit of CHA bonus.
I've been playing some Draconic Templar set a bit ago with white and blue dragon glyphs. It feels like a combination of Magelord + Draconic Set, so for survivability PvE-wise I'd definitely go for it before getting the jeweling profession to the point where it counts to get extra def slots.
But the overall bonus is a bit wanky. 4 items in the set and only 5% critical severity off from enemies? And each is like that, each class that is... Weird decision, but a powerful set non-the-less, especially if you need a lot of Crit on a CW.
To my surprise, the Draconic Glyphs became at least 2000% more expensive from their earlier days. I guess that nobody's farming Shot anymore.
You see, this is the problem - you talk strictly from the end-game gear position which is a PvE- overkill no matter how you look at it. It's still not very viable to get the AC bonus and that's about it that I'm going to say. I do enjoy extra Ap gain all the time because my play is completely about the appropriate timing for very quick execution. Imagine when I place Lathander's Dew on top of what I'd put Sunlord's pot, and my "speeeeed" build where I completely disregarded pretty much most of my "dps" which I had as a Thaum for the sake of faster play. I play very fast with Steal time on spell mastery, positioning myself always in appropriate direction to execute Sudden Storm and completely freeze enemies for a brief moment.
If I wanted to play carefully I'd still go for the black ice cloak, lol. If I wanted to play PvP, that's a completely different story.
And I don't know what else I may add. Frankly, this is getting tedious. Thank you for reading, though. Appreciated.
also, what abaddon wrote. That was my play for the past...two months, only executed by using pots. Timing is the key word. Using the full potential of the EotS is the alfa and omega of the SS CW. And using like, 4 spells, for DPS while EotS up while executing the daily only to get it almost completely filled 95% let's say, which you fill by using chill/arcane left click + CoI while EotS is active, bam, full daily, execute...almost filled up, next mob group, repeat).
And this is best evident in maps such as ShoT.
Now you are doing what you should do in the first post, explaining why you enjoy black ice cloack and this is what helps the OP and how you earn respect from others. Not saying "this is wrong, that is bad, this guy have no idea"
Black ice is the "default and easy option" that is for sure, but depending on your playstile (and gear level) , you may enjoy Lathander, because you already have 1 daily in each encounter in SoT or eLoL without it.
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Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
As for the black ice cloak, I got a question. Is the ap gain from it affect by ap increase stats (recovery ie)?
Just use a couple of Personalized rings that don't add AP. There are 2 other choices that fit the bill.
I'm way overcapped on armor pen with HV.
2 artifacts (350 x2)
1 cloak of black ice (298)
1 belt of black ice (298)
1 arcane eye of the golden dragon (416)
2 boons (450)
1 ancient necklace (168, on the ioun stone with eldritch runestone in def)
1 gemmed exquisite shirt (77)
1 gemmed exquisite pants (77)
2495 total armor pen, it's missing a grand total of 45 armor pen
The rings that don't add AP don't have power, which make them unusable
I disagree. I have 10k power, 1.8 Crit, and 1k lifesteal. The Crit/Lifesteal ring will help me out quite a bit. Now that Storm Spell is tied ONLY to crits I need to pump my Crit up a bit more and the extra lifesteal will help as well.
I've been on the "MOAR POWER" bandwagon for several modules now based on the math of how damage is calculated. So I get the mentality. But I think reducing it to something as simple "no power = HAMSTER" is going too far.
Incorrect.
I think you misunderstood what I said.
I said that the rings that don't have armor penetration don't have power. Meaning that only the ring with armor penetration has the power stat.
Power doesn't diminish in value no matter how high it is. It's the other stats that gain value compared to power. That said, for those stats to come ahead of power, you'd need to have them at a ridiculously low amount or have power at a ridiculously (impossible to attain atm) high amount.
I'm pretty much at a point where 1 point of power is equal to 2 points of anything else.
From Kaelec's guide on power here: http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/342-crit-power-and-dps-the-numbers-guide/
You'll see that the actual effectiveness of power diminishes at higher levels. At lower levels 100 points of power will give you about .65% increase in Damage. At higher levels, that number is closer to 0.35%. It's why at higher levels, you need to start paying more attention to your crit stat again, as it's likely you'll be UNDER on crit.
It IS entirely possible to have too much power, in relation to your other stats.
Defense/mitigation is useless when you have lifesteal.
Armor pen is useless because you should have all you need from other sources.
Hehehe. Yes it does, it's just not as noticeable as with other values.
You should expect that an end-game build person with 9-10k Power isn't really gaining much when compared to a person who has 6-7k Power with the same exact build. The numbers will be higher for around a million but the key factor to look at is the weapon and timing.
CW-wise, one million more damage isn't a lot.
But in the case of GWF, Power can be a substantial ally. Going for more than 10k Power can improve their gameplay substantially, and the same can be said for the TRs.
The point is simple, as a CW you get a lot of smaller number values which are, for the most part, not worth the investment.
Storm Spell + Oppressive + Steal Time are worth the investment. Small number spells do benefit, of course, but not as much as the big number spells. So you'll notice a significantly bigger damage increase for someone who crits 50k DPS than someone who crits 2-9k dps with a tick of the Conduit of Ice.
CW's can rarely match TR/SW and even GWF in dungeons where there's a lot of single targets, such as the Epic Lair of Lostmauth. Regardless of the build, there's just not enough awesome single target spells to make the use of the power potential. A 10k Power CW in eLoL will have a hard time competing with a 6k Power/4kCrit SW who unleashes the fury.
Now, in CN you may get a fathomable understanding why the Conduit of Ice works flawlessly on spell mastery, but if you build-up the chill too fast you'll end up your crit-tick, frozen targets receive no Damage, ergo no Storm Spell proc. A terrible choice tbh, which is why I choose to go with Steal Time on spell mastery until the current patch. Now, we'll see just how good is Chilling Advantage. I already have around 3k Crit, and if I put Draconic Templar I get around 4-5k Crit easily (just for testing purposes of the chilling advantage).
And even without the most optimal build or most optimal spell rotation, because you don't want to play like a robot all the time, you might again outDPS anyone as long as you know what you're doing (not indicating that you should rush before everyone to get some paingiver).
Anyway, Watermelon Sorbet is the single most useful buff for a CW, especially in combination with Corellon's Blood elixir. Apparently, Sorbet's terribly cheap on AH now, around 40-50k?! The higher your Power is, more Power you'll receive from a Sorbet.
Downside of it is the fact that once you fall, it's gone. You have to consume it again.
If your armor pen is at 24.3% without a neck item, and your defense good (31.9% dmg reduction) and still wanted faster AP would you go with the Imperial Dragon Cloak over the Cloak of Black Ice? I should add my recovery might be considered low (2,341).
Thank you!
Fully upgraded Cloak of Black Ice. While in combat, meaning that while's anything focusing you, you will get AP ratio. On top of that, you may get Three strong Recovery/APgain buffs or use them as the alternative method to that of the Black Ice artifact belt.
Watermelon Sorbet (Works better if you have higher Recovery, though, since it's %bonus10/baseRECOVERY)
Lathander's Dew (Works the same way like Black Ice cloak, only slightly slower)
Sunlord's Gift Elixir (Quite probably the best one of the above-mentioned)
Alternatively, you may get Wisdom belt for the increased AP ratio and bonus control duration.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
Of course.
If you have more than 24% arPen, Imperial > Black Ice.