i choose the dmg reduction. Although the stealth in my opinion was a good move. reducing their dmg from dailies, at-wills, and ofc fixing the scoundrel feats so they respect cc immunity or at least shorter daze times because that **** is a cc that procs. Dumb idea.
dazes don't pierce immunity. only dazing strike can interrupt through immunity but an interrupt is not a daze. i would like the ability to daze gwf's and bosses though so i can get my 25-50% damage buffs >.>
and we are an at-will based class. at-wills will always be our best form of dps.
0
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited December 2014
For PVE concerns: I'm fairly certain this poll is intended as PVP only changes. I doubt the OP cares if PVE TRs get 500% damage increase, and certainly isn't suggesting PVE TRs need a damage nerf.
For PVE: Just bump every class' damage by 500%. Easy mode for all. Then balance PVP.
Everyone is *****ing about TRs, I agree there needs to be changes, they stun for too long and too many times, they go through CC immunity and that oneshotting needs to be stopped asap, but there are a lot of weird stuff going on in PvP and no one adresses it...
Unstoppable GWFs getting pushed back by sunburst, CC imune TR's as well, also the damage imunity on DCs is stupid, because they don't dodge anymore they just stand there, that's like the Oneshot on a TR, its just too much...
There are a lot of broken little things in PvP that need as much attention as the TR has been given since the game went live.
Please start the Nerf hammering on other classes too, not just the TR.
Ah, and the Reveal for 2secs counts for nothing if they Stun you for like, 5secs... LOL Nerf those stuns (not talking about dazing strike or smoke bomb, I mean the ones that come from the Feat-Tree), and then you can reveal them for 2 seconds. Otherwise it will be just silly...
i choose the dmg reduction. Although the stealth in my opinion was a good move. reducing their dmg from dailies, at-wills, and ofc fixing the scoundrel feats so they respect cc immunity or at least shorter daze times because that **** is a cc that procs. Dumb idea.
Scoundrel feats respect immunity in PvE. I doubt it's different in PvP. The Concussive Strike proc is 2.5s base daze every 5s so no 100% uptime there. Skullcracker is max 6s every 15s.
Scoundrel feats respect immunity in PvE. I doubt it's different in PvP. The Concussive Strike proc is 2.5s base daze every 5s so no 100% uptime there. Skullcracker is max 6s every 15s.
rayran was there when he dazed me when i was in villains manace. It does not respec every immunity skill from classes
Ah, and the Reveal for 2secs counts for nothing if they Stun you for like, 5secs... LOL Nerf those stuns (not talking about dazing strike or smoke bomb, I mean the ones that come from the Feat-Tree), and then you can reveal them for 2 seconds. Otherwise it will be just silly...
Scoundrels are out of stealth most of the time anyway, so nerfing dazes wil have zero effect on the stealth reveal. Scoundrel feats give either 2.5s daze every 5s or 6s daze every 15s. So OP. Not.
No stealth reveal, but need damage reduction, also I agree crit chance needs to be affected by actual crit stats.
TRs are already easy to track and follow when near plus encounter cancellation (i.e come and get it, steal time), HR's roots and thorn ward detection and Hard traget lock. it's already provided other classes a window opportunity to catch the TR.
I don't think so.
My opinion is damage reduction only where it means one-shotting same gear-level toons. Like the reported daze+SE or SE on GWF.
Other than that, damage is where a hard hitter is supposed to be.
About TRs "elusivity", first, it's not true TRs are "that" squishy. They can stand a rotation for sure, even a couple if grared and build to be tankier.
Elusivity means you are in stealth and pick up a target, get close unnoticed and strike hard. Then you are vulnerable for a short period of time and need to either dodge or take some damage to, then, be able to run back to stealth and either recover or strike again. It's fair.
Right now, Saboteur TRs or whatever build you use, can strike from stealth, and then get back to stealth right away with immunity rolls in the middle. It's absolutely FALSE that TRs can easily be spotted in stealth cause all the videos i see about premades, BiS players included you, show BiS players running around to look for the TR all the time.
First video is old as you know since it's yours, and in module 5 you have longer rolls, extra roll and more deflection.
The truth is, even at BiS/ Premade level is see TRs absolutely playing fighters in the palm of their hands.
As i said in other posts, against Jeb you were kind enough to stay on node all the time but we know you could easily kite out of reach and nullify the 0.2s chance he has to hit daily to catch you.
HR is the class with probably the only real semi-counter to TRs with thorn ward and forest ghost.
Fighters are useless against TRs cause you have all the tools to kite them forever. And that's exactly what happens in all the videos we can see showing "BiS" players vs equally geared and experienced TRs.
Also, clear proof is the K/D ration of TRs in top pages of leaderboard, which again is far better than that of any other class, tanks included.
Talking about Saboteur/ META build. So i'm not talking about my only personal experience since i may very well be a bad player. But GWFs with 1 year premade experience and BiS gear perform poorly against TRs right now, simply because the increased roll lenght, increased number of rolls (one TR explicitly wrote he can get close to 5 long rolls, which is insane) and semi-perma/ perma stealth still there, all together make up for a perfect defense.
Now, since i got accused to be "bias" towards GWF (my main class, not my only class, i plan on building a alt TR too since i quite like the class, but lack time to do it), just to clarify:
i recognize inti sentinel power and what i write here is not "absolute truth" but still, if you say what you say, and on video together with personal experience in PvP, is see Saboteur TRs easily killing people and being more survivable than any other class, it's hard for me to believe that "TRs are easily spotted in stealth". I could do it till module 5 hit. After the changes, it's impossible to keep up with stealth+rolls+insane mobility. A TR also stated he didn't need to use his mount after module 5 cause he got that much mobility he could easily just avoid using the mount. And it's true cause you guys are the fastest thing apart from sprinting GWFs/ zooming SWs, with the advantage that you have that mobility as base mobility, while zooming/ sprinting is limited.
So whenever i "spot" you in stealth, you have the rolls and the mobility to just get away again. And again. And again.
And i still have to see a player at ANY level on a GWF being able to keep up with an equally geared TR.
Wanna say your guild mates like PapaBiGN are all nabs and don't know how to fight you?
How many people have create double-triple accounts to vote third option?? ahah guys you're so boring... you want your characters stronger then all others, dont understand that ALL must have a role. You cant HAVE ALL. ROGUE in EVERY ROLE PLAY is a DPS class, and best 1shotkill in pvp. You should accept this dogma and play yuor mage/hr/gwf in the best way as possible. You dont want to play, you want to win at every coast.
Sorry for that, i'm Rogue and i think that stealth need absolutly a nerf, but damage is the normal damage that a rogue should have.
To Desidius :
I saw you already when was fighting 1vs1 somebody. And we both were on our end hp what you did? Remember? So you just fake full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> another MF who doesn't have respect except his own ambitions.
Really, that's interesting.... So how about I spec any class you want and beat you with it? Save SW , but even then I'm confident I can beat you with that handicap :P
Personally I don't think the stealth reveal is necessary. I'd rather see damage taken of any sort yo the TR bumps them out of stealth period. This way stealth is still viable for the more skilled tactically but can be countered if they slip up.
Oh and one more thing. All you "people" voting just for damage nerfs do realize that you will be ruining the TR in PvE by doing so right? All for the sake of an overpowered class ability.
This is exactly why class change suggestions should never even be considered from PvP players
Personally I don't think the stealth reveal is necessary. I'd rather see damage taken of any sort yo the TR bumps them out of stealth period. This way stealth is still viable for the more skilled tactically but can be countered if they slip up.
Oh and one more thing. All you "people" voting just for damage nerfs do realize that you will be ruining the TR in PvE by doing so right? All for the sake of an overpowered class ability.
This is exactly why class change suggestions should never even be considered from PvP players
actually you are wrong.
if they remove the damage again it will be the same as before.
the problem is not the damage , well after they fix the multi procc feats it wont hit that hard.
the problem is that he doesnt have openings.
he goes to stealth, dodges and when he gets out he is using ITC.
there is no time to stun/prone/freeze etc.
so it shouldn't be
but atleast while he attacks while in ITC he wont be immune to damage, and while he attacks the perma daze should not be so often.
because of this combination
of stealth/dodge/daze/itc its impossible to land a hit.
so TR community wanted damage, but atleast trade the surviability over damage, its simple.
Elusivity means you are in stealth and pick up a target, get close unnoticed and strike hard. Then you are vulnerable for a short period of time and need to either dodge or take some damage to, then, be able to run back to stealth and either recover or strike again. It's fair.
This is EXACTLY the way TRs should have been designed and how they work in pretty much any other game of your choice. And this is how most TRs hoped the Mod 5 rework would end up. But instead of the ground-up redesign that should have happened we got some tinkering with feats that didn't really address the core issue with stealth.
The problem with implementing this style of play in NWO is the way stealth is regenerated and depleted. A TR which 'takes some damage' will pretty much never get back into stealth unless they take a specific loadout of class features and encounters that severely limit their combat effectiveness and one of which isn't even available to Whisperknives.
Better if any attack instantly ends stealth but stealth regenerates without being affected by damage over a period of 2 seconds. Also change all stealth-replenishing encounters to something more useful that help in unstealthed combat. Maybe keep one 'escape' encounter that allows the TR to gain distance and briefly re-stealth to disengage when overmatched.
Your "Description" isn't what TR is atm. Dazing someone almost permantenly, staying in stealth 110% of the time. Yeah, so much TR-Like.
Lol get the **** outta here. Don't try to use logic with this game, because this game has none.
no scoundrel stays in stealth and dazing/lashing can be predicted b4 they land from stealth. stealthed-skullcapper deft strike is the only hard to dodge daze that a scoundrel has.
the daze from shadow strike is perfectly dodgeable by classes with a dodge/immunity.
no scoundrel stays in stealth and dazing/lashing can be predicted b4 they land from stealth. stealthed-skullcapper deft strike is the only hard to dodge daze that a scoundrel has.
the daze from shadow strike is perfectly dodgeable by classes with a dodge/immunity.
we are talkin about the thing that stunlocks your encounter and you cannot attack.
not slows or other bull****s.
From my point of view, even HIPS (hide in plain sight) should be exclusive to one path (and occupying class feature slot), so to me having HIPS, perma/semi-perma stealth, ITC (the way it works here), current dodge power etc etc all in one is just preposterous.
When stealthed, stealth meter should be slowly depleting when moving and faster when dodging, stalling when standing still, 1/3-1/2 of max consumed with each at will hit and utility encounter use, completely depleted on non-utility encounter/daily use (granting a surprise bonus ofc). Any direct successful hit should prevent hiding for 1+ sec no matter how filled the stealth meter is (some effects like daze should empty it). ITC then would rly get its function besides trolling (its time tho should be shorter, granting some movement speed instead, and CD longer) - to find a safe spot to hide again.
My point is, the issue with TRs all the time is not damage (i think that backstabs - LB - from stealth should heavily damage anyone, SE outright kill a CW without shield or a GF with his shield lowered - no its not weird, even from back raised shield means the GF is aware and expecting a hit, otherwise should suffer as anyone else - examples of what could prevent flanking), but that with some "builds" it is possible to deal massive damage repeatedly, infinitely, without risking anything (either hidden or long ITC, plus dodges now, and bloodbath) and even against multiple enemies.
On the other hand, seeing a TR with double the dmg dealt score than a gwf/sw/cw at the end of a dungeon filled with mobs from top to bottom is weird (sure should lead when dealing with single boss), but thats another story.
Anyway, if nothing else, hope the 1-2 sec reveal will hit live server soon (after how long... 2 years almost?).
A bit nosy NW-DKG7E99X6
"Hardcore" exploration journey and dungeon crawl. Read its description prior to trying it.
Comments
dazes don't pierce immunity. only dazing strike can interrupt through immunity but an interrupt is not a daze. i would like the ability to daze gwf's and bosses though so i can get my 25-50% damage buffs >.>
and we are an at-will based class. at-wills will always be our best form of dps.
For PVE: Just bump every class' damage by 500%. Easy mode for all. Then balance PVP.
Iyon the Dark
If you think about the logics in the game, all the stabs of the TRs would ignore 100% of the DR since they're always used in the armor openings.
Wrong. They already have 100% crit for that.
Unstoppable GWFs getting pushed back by sunburst, CC imune TR's as well, also the damage imunity on DCs is stupid, because they don't dodge anymore they just stand there, that's like the Oneshot on a TR, its just too much...
There are a lot of broken little things in PvP that need as much attention as the TR has been given since the game went live.
Please start the Nerf hammering on other classes too, not just the TR.
Ah, and the Reveal for 2secs counts for nothing if they Stun you for like, 5secs... LOL Nerf those stuns (not talking about dazing strike or smoke bomb, I mean the ones that come from the Feat-Tree), and then you can reveal them for 2 seconds. Otherwise it will be just silly...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I don't think so.
My opinion is damage reduction only where it means one-shotting same gear-level toons. Like the reported daze+SE or SE on GWF.
Other than that, damage is where a hard hitter is supposed to be.
About TRs "elusivity", first, it's not true TRs are "that" squishy. They can stand a rotation for sure, even a couple if grared and build to be tankier.
Elusivity means you are in stealth and pick up a target, get close unnoticed and strike hard. Then you are vulnerable for a short period of time and need to either dodge or take some damage to, then, be able to run back to stealth and either recover or strike again. It's fair.
Right now, Saboteur TRs or whatever build you use, can strike from stealth, and then get back to stealth right away with immunity rolls in the middle. It's absolutely FALSE that TRs can easily be spotted in stealth cause all the videos i see about premades, BiS players included you, show BiS players running around to look for the TR all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sLcbLeVGYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmke1LDTGE
http://www.twitch.tv/crollax/c/5651535
First video is old as you know since it's yours, and in module 5 you have longer rolls, extra roll and more deflection.
The truth is, even at BiS/ Premade level is see TRs absolutely playing fighters in the palm of their hands.
As i said in other posts, against Jeb you were kind enough to stay on node all the time but we know you could easily kite out of reach and nullify the 0.2s chance he has to hit daily to catch you.
HR is the class with probably the only real semi-counter to TRs with thorn ward and forest ghost.
Fighters are useless against TRs cause you have all the tools to kite them forever. And that's exactly what happens in all the videos we can see showing "BiS" players vs equally geared and experienced TRs.
Also, clear proof is the K/D ration of TRs in top pages of leaderboard, which again is far better than that of any other class, tanks included.
Talking about Saboteur/ META build. So i'm not talking about my only personal experience since i may very well be a bad player. But GWFs with 1 year premade experience and BiS gear perform poorly against TRs right now, simply because the increased roll lenght, increased number of rolls (one TR explicitly wrote he can get close to 5 long rolls, which is insane) and semi-perma/ perma stealth still there, all together make up for a perfect defense.
Now, since i got accused to be "bias" towards GWF (my main class, not my only class, i plan on building a alt TR too since i quite like the class, but lack time to do it), just to clarify:
i recognize inti sentinel power and what i write here is not "absolute truth" but still, if you say what you say, and on video together with personal experience in PvP, is see Saboteur TRs easily killing people and being more survivable than any other class, it's hard for me to believe that "TRs are easily spotted in stealth". I could do it till module 5 hit. After the changes, it's impossible to keep up with stealth+rolls+insane mobility. A TR also stated he didn't need to use his mount after module 5 cause he got that much mobility he could easily just avoid using the mount. And it's true cause you guys are the fastest thing apart from sprinting GWFs/ zooming SWs, with the advantage that you have that mobility as base mobility, while zooming/ sprinting is limited.
So whenever i "spot" you in stealth, you have the rolls and the mobility to just get away again. And again. And again.
And i still have to see a player at ANY level on a GWF being able to keep up with an equally geared TR.
Wanna say your guild mates like PapaBiGN are all nabs and don't know how to fight you?
Sorry for that, i'm Rogue and i think that stealth need absolutly a nerf, but damage is the normal damage that a rogue should have.
Excuse my english, i'm Italian.
Really, that's interesting.... So how about I spec any class you want and beat you with it? Save SW , but even then I'm confident I can beat you with that handicap :P
some tricksters out here should really have <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you or you ate mexican to spit fire later..
TR keeps his stealth
Devs needs to nerf ITC to only grant CC immunity and no DR or deflect
the TR still has his stealth.
without ITC he cannot 1vs2.
and probably a nerf on daze so he wont daze so often.
so you guys wanted a DPS TR and it has DPS, but with the dps changes he kept his surviability.
and the nerf on ITC is the solution.
nerf scoundrel, runs faster than a 110% mount.
Oh and one more thing. All you "people" voting just for damage nerfs do realize that you will be ruining the TR in PvE by doing so right? All for the sake of an overpowered class ability.
This is exactly why class change suggestions should never even be considered from PvP players
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hucYwXFi2jM&feature=youtu.be
actually you are wrong.
if they remove the damage again it will be the same as before.
the problem is not the damage , well after they fix the multi procc feats it wont hit that hard.
the problem is that he doesnt have openings.
he goes to stealth, dodges and when he gets out he is using ITC.
there is no time to stun/prone/freeze etc.
so it shouldn't be
but atleast while he attacks while in ITC he wont be immune to damage, and while he attacks the perma daze should not be so often.
because of this combination
of stealth/dodge/daze/itc its impossible to land a hit.
so TR community wanted damage, but atleast trade the surviability over damage, its simple.
The problem with implementing this style of play in NWO is the way stealth is regenerated and depleted. A TR which 'takes some damage' will pretty much never get back into stealth unless they take a specific loadout of class features and encounters that severely limit their combat effectiveness and one of which isn't even available to Whisperknives.
Better if any attack instantly ends stealth but stealth regenerates without being affected by damage over a period of 2 seconds. Also change all stealth-replenishing encounters to something more useful that help in unstealthed combat. Maybe keep one 'escape' encounter that allows the TR to gain distance and briefly re-stealth to disengage when overmatched.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
no scoundrel stays in stealth and dazing/lashing can be predicted b4 they land from stealth. stealthed-skullcapper deft strike is the only hard to dodge daze that a scoundrel has.
the daze from shadow strike is perfectly dodgeable by classes with a dodge/immunity.
we are talkin about the thing that stunlocks your encounter and you cannot attack.
not slows or other bull****s.
When stealthed, stealth meter should be slowly depleting when moving and faster when dodging, stalling when standing still, 1/3-1/2 of max consumed with each at will hit and utility encounter use, completely depleted on non-utility encounter/daily use (granting a surprise bonus ofc). Any direct successful hit should prevent hiding for 1+ sec no matter how filled the stealth meter is (some effects like daze should empty it). ITC then would rly get its function besides trolling (its time tho should be shorter, granting some movement speed instead, and CD longer) - to find a safe spot to hide again.
My point is, the issue with TRs all the time is not damage (i think that backstabs - LB - from stealth should heavily damage anyone, SE outright kill a CW without shield or a GF with his shield lowered - no its not weird, even from back raised shield means the GF is aware and expecting a hit, otherwise should suffer as anyone else - examples of what could prevent flanking), but that with some "builds" it is possible to deal massive damage repeatedly, infinitely, without risking anything (either hidden or long ITC, plus dodges now, and bloodbath) and even against multiple enemies.
On the other hand, seeing a TR with double the dmg dealt score than a gwf/sw/cw at the end of a dungeon filled with mobs from top to bottom is weird (sure should lead when dealing with single boss), but thats another story.
Anyway, if nothing else, hope the 1-2 sec reveal will hit live server soon (after how long... 2 years almost?).