Dodging what? Pointing out balances that can be made and where they can be made? Pointing out counters?
Yeah, and you're the sab tree. Why don't you play a tree that needs skill, like scoundrel?
And any class can kill them easily in 1v1. Ask Etherion, I duel him sometimes when I'm in Icewind.
Yeah, I've fought him before on the PTR when the changes were proposed. He uses damage dragon glyphs, which I find to be disgraceful. I could very well do the same, but I find it more *skillful* to defeat enemies without it. In any case, it seems he dies somewhat frequently, indicative that there are some hard counters possible against a DPS DC, unlike a permastealth TR.
And then you ignore the tweaking they can do to DC class that I just posted. Don't confuse me for you.
No, I've fought against absolute premades before with my ragtag group of PvP friends from other guilds. However, most of those matches we lost due to minor GS discrepancy as, not all of them are sporting BiS gear quite yet (and 1000 miles of pots), along with using unorthodox (read: Not Meta) team compositions. In any case, the matches where we did have you, all of them noted that there was absolutely 0 things they could do against you, even when teaming against you. The rest of your team can be taken out if we had 2 people on them at once, except the TR. This is most likely due to permastealth mechanics and this is what's changing.
This is the part you respond to, nothing else? All you're doing is hurling insults at this point. All I can say is I've seen screenshots of certain admissions involving your very own @handle. They may be forgeries, but then you should take it up with people that have posted them. But one thing is certain, the age of your account shows that you were around when such things were available. Considering your current attitude though, I wouldn't say you were above using those unsavory methods.
43 out of the top 100 in leaderboard are TR's. Address this.
You've only died 43 times into mod 5 playing near 200 matches against top of the line PvP guilds. Address how this isn't indicative of too much defensive power on the side of a TR.
I welcome it since then you won't be able to skirt past 90% of the stuff I'm saying.
Your doing it again, your dodging the fact that DPS DC is nearly as OP as TR on live
LMAO your really trying to compare your skill to mine.....XD
Seriously, okay xDD
K I'm still laughing
Alright moving on
Then your playing your DPS DC wrong my friend, Iyon plays his with ruthless efficiency,
CW Has 0 Chance
GWF has 0 Chance
TR Can win (Only because of dailies, and only on live server)
HR is 70/30 in DC favor
SW has 0 Chance
GF has to 1 shot on first rotation or he loses, therefore if he isnt a BiS Conq (Which is useless in premades) He loses.
Notice the trend here?
... so lets see, you can't play your DC, and your having seemingly serious issues with stealth trs.... Im noticing a lot of L2P issues
Still trying to Duck the fact that your DPS tree is blatantly OP
Show one screenshot here about said allegations or never bring up the topic again
The leaderboard, the thing everyone refers to as a joke, this 43% on something that is easily glitched, and exploited YES SIR, your statistics are rock solid
My K/D - Pugflation
Sorry, your talking about things you dont know about again, you've never been in a top of the line guild match, nor do you know how often they occur
Just an FYI I've only personally ran into a full CS premade with a full premade on my side 8-9 times
I've only rank into an EoA premade 3-4 times
My previous comments stand
You can't play your DPS DC correctly, evidence of this is your lack of admission that a geared out DC can beat all the classes mentioned - or your just a liar
Therefore your skill set is sub par
You have NEVER pvp'ed in an organized match - your Knowledge base, not even started
Excuse me sir, but you don't know jack HAMSTER about what your talking about, and your only statistic is based on exploited material
You should probably start a thread about fire of the gods if your so concerned about class balance... oh wait, your not
I am, you need to check your facts before you talk HAMSTER, because everything you mention is false in the world of an end game pvp match
At this point we don't need to argue that TR is OP and need nerf
You don't wanna reveal? Then give away long roll and +25% deflec sev
you don't wanna nerf damage? Then give away 100% crit change
This is one of the dev solution and i personaly agree with this
I realy appreciate dev fast response change so no need to wait next mod again, thank you
Your doing it again, your dodging the fact that DPS DC is nearly as OP as TR on live
Ok, so now you're trying to talk about DC in a thread about TR, a thread that you made. What in the world are you doing now?
In any case, yes, they can tone down the DoT just a bit for DC, making it 7 seconds instead of 15 (so it doesn't linger as long after the DC has been defeated), maybe 80%. But most of the problem is in empowered astral shield. 2% per stack of empowered would be better than 3, making it 6% at max stack than 9%. Blocking nearly 4200 damage per attack is a little ridiculous.
LMAO your really trying to compare your skill to mine.....XD
Seriously, okay xDD
K I'm still laughing
Alright moving on
I do believe the true measure of skill is making things that are weaker be effective. Like playing a DPS DC in mod 4. Like playing scoundrel that doesn't have the damage of Exec, or the permastealth of Sab. But, once again, irrelevant. If you're so skilled, make a weaker tree work in PvP. Rookz can do this with trapper, but you seem to be afraid to.
Then your playing your DPS DC wrong my friend, Iyon plays his with ruthless efficiency,
CW Has 0 Chance
GWF has 0 Chance
TR Can win (Only because of dailies, and only on live server)
HR is 70/30 in DC favor
SW has 0 Chance
GF has to 1 shot on first rotation or he loses, therefore if he isnt a BiS Conq (Which is useless in premades) He loses.
Notice the trend here?
... so lets see, you can't play your DC, and your having seemingly serious issues with stealth trs.... Im noticing a lot of L2P issues
First, let Iyon defend himself, I see him posting once in a while in this thread. And I'll tell you as I told him back during the Test Shard, I don't use dragon glyphs in PvP, simply because they're cheesy and ungraceful. Plus, tell him to duel some proper CW's like "In the Library" from Exodus, some proper GWF like Etherion from EoA, and any TR.
Still trying to Duck the fact that your DPS tree is blatantly OP
I still don't understand the mental gymnastics required to talk about DC in a thread you started about TR.
Show one screenshot here about said allegations or never bring up the topic again
It's out there.
The leaderboard, the thing everyone refers to as a joke, this 43% on something that is easily glitched, and exploited YES SIR, your statistics are rock solid
My K/D - Pugflation
First, it's accurate in telling the general state of classes in PvP, and gives accurate data in K/D ratios which are also an indication of power.
Now, are you saying you mostly PuG stomp instead of playing serious Premades? If that's the case, then the data is still relevant as I'm sure there are TR's that run more PuG's than premades. There's 43 of them in the top 100.
And this isn't much of a response to those statistics.
Sorry, your talking about things you dont know about again, you've never been in a top of the line guild match, nor do you know how often they occur
They occur often enough. In any case, about those TR's.....
Just an FYI I've only personally ran into a full CS premade with a full premade on my side 8-9 times
I've only rank into an EoA premade 3-4 times
So what does this have to do with TR's??? I mean, if you're trying to say that you're stats are 90% from pugging, then ok, Deridius, you're a pug stomper, but then that's more indicative of overall class balance as well.
My previous comments stand
You can't play your DPS DC correctly, evidence of this is your lack of admission that a geared out DC can beat all the classes mentioned - or your just a liar
Invite Iyon and several top classes into Icewind, we can turn this into a server event. We'll see how this turns out.
Therefore your skill set is sub par
False.
You have NEVER pvp'ed in an organized match - your Knowledge base, not even started
Also false.
Excuse me sir, but you don't know jack HAMSTER about what your talking about, and your only statistic is based on exploited material
Is that an admission that you have exploited?
You should probably start a thread about fire of the gods if your so concerned about class balance... oh wait, your not
OK, I'll make a compendium on class balance changes for every class. I'll add in the suggestions listed here regarding DPS DC.
I am, you need to check your facts before you talk HAMSTER, because everything you mention is false in the world of an end game pvp match
Yeah, not really. In any case, I'm guessing it's too much to ask you to stay on topic at this point. So, keep on swinging, and let everybody see it. I'll just keep pointing out that this is a thread about TR changes.
First, let Iyon defend himself, I see him posting once in a while in this thread. And I'll tell you as I told him back during the Test Shard, I don't use dragon glyphs in PvP, simply because they're cheesy and ungraceful. Plus, tell him to duel some proper CW's like "In the Library" from Exodus, some proper GWF like Etherion from EoA, and any TR.
Although it is a thread about TRs, not DCs! I Am's class was largely irrelevant to the points he was making. But of course, OP just wanted to obfuscate the matter by making mostly unrelated arguments about DC OP levels.
Although it is a thread about TRs, not DCs! I Am's class was largely irrelevant to the points he was making. But of course, OP just wanted to obfuscate the matter by making mostly unrelated arguments about DC OP levels.
Is everyone not in agreement though (including OP): TRs need a DPS decrease ASAP. On their dailies and possibly their stuns. TRs should never be able to win 2v1 when all players are BIS.
Once that gets sorted out, I have no problem with TRs being slightly upgraded versions of their module 4 forms.
Is everyone not in agreement though (including OP): TRs need a DPS decrease ASAP. On their dailies and possibly their stuns. TRs should never be able to win 2v1 when all players are BIS.
Once that gets sorted out, I have no problem with TRs being slightly upgraded versions of their module 4 forms.
Didn't OP say in-game the other day that TR are balanced? :P
Poor excuse for a lame fix on permastealth to begin with.
And solves nothing other than pushes TRs toward the only PVP viable tree.
They should redesign piercing damage additive feats, and restealth feats. Not to mention bullcrap they had released on prev where casting SS from stealth reveals you - i mean come on?!
Poor excuse for a lame fix on permastealth to begin with.
And solves nothing other than pushes TRs toward the only PVP viable tree.
They should redesign piercing damage additive feats, and restealth feats. Not to mention bullcrap they had released on prev where casting SS from stealth reveals you - i mean come on?!
I want all the TRs saying catching stealth in module 5 is a l2p issue to grab a GWF, go live and film him/ hear vsing a good PvP TR. Do it. Now. Or shut up cause i've trained 1 year ago and was able to counter stealth with anticipation and experience (to the point a perma in a match asked me if i could see him in stealth cause i was anticipating his movements and spotting him al lthe time) so i will not take your l2p HAMSTER. Expecially when your guild mates GWFs who are supposed to also be BiS and skilled perform the exact same way, with video proofs.
I defended perma stealth till module 4 cause at that point it was still possible to catch the TR since the shorter rolls and less rolls allowed you to actually pressure them once you could spot them. Now don't fool yourselves, the buff to rolls and mobility in general make it a joke for a TR to kite from permastealth every class except pretty much HRs, cause HRs have thorn wards and boar (insta-cast prone) to catch the TR.
Classes like GWF with useless stun (quite often nullified by deflection) and not enough mobility to pressure the new META build are harmless.
But i would be happy if you could prove me wrong. May be with a video of you guys going against a current PvP META TR with a GWF, CW, GF, SW and actually show me a balanced fight.
Please. Show me how my 1 year experience fighting permas with no particular problems till module 4, now turned into a l2p issue in module 5.
Dersidius, i don't get it: did you say you can track/ catch a Mod5 perma TR 2v1 only? Didn't understand.
oi imbeciles why dont you ask for upgrade for your class instead of nerfing TR thats called crab mentality grow up infants.
We asked. Devs ignored us.
I'm all in for buffs. If i can get increased sprint on my GWF and prones back to counter perma increased rolls, mobility and deflect nullifying stuns, i'm happy enough.
Just do not pretend that the buffs to rolls and mobility didn't affect the already amazing survivability of TRs. Cause it sounds ridiculous when you see videos over videos of top GWF like PapaBiGN, Tirion, JeB, or the GF in the third video i posted who is number 2 (if i'm correct) in leaderboard being kited forever and being playing around, and then the very same TRs who do that say it's a l2p issue.
It's quite simple. Take for example JeB vs Nanners video.
What you see there is that the TR has 0.2s of vulnerability, and only cause he decided to kite on node/ close to the GWF. He was supposed to catch him in those 0.2s taking latency into account, with daily.
So:
-what if he didn't have daily up. Could may be stun, which is often nullified by deflection+tenacity on HRs/ TRs
-what if the TR decided to kite out of reach (not always on node but in-out of node)
-even if he could catch him once, and let's say 1-rotate him, sulforged would proc and the TR would've been again safe in stealth, to just finish him with BB as we see.
There's no argument to prove the GWF could win in that video. The TR always got enough tools to take him down and survive. Even taking into account the very tiny small chance he get to catch the TR (which again, would be non-existent if the TR just decided to kite out of reach instead of moving close to the GWF).
Can prove me wrong grabbing your GWF and facing a good mod5 PvP TR to show how your skills allow you to counter the TR stealth+rolls+mobility and how it is a l2p issue.
We asked. Devs ignored us.
Can prove me wrong grabbing your GWF and facing a good mod5 PvP TR to show how your skills allow you to counter the TR stealth+rolls+mobility and how it is a l2p issue.
Rather than speaking here you should talk to devs.
Bellow couple of things that do help (but do not guarantee success against TR)
Get headphones for PVP if u can afford them.
Use more than 3 fixed artifacts. Some of them do reveal TR instantly.
Learn how TR moves works. You can anticipate certain rotations which do not change.
Use your sprint when ITC is up. Wasting DC of of a TR.
Stop crying every post! Be a man and take it. Besides patience is a virtue. TR will settle down.
To explain my last sentences. Never lowered myself to a point where i was l2p nub crying for nerfs. Not when TR was at the bottom and your class was at the very top of the foods chain. Just Never. To criticize the class it would be nice to actually play it to know what to change to begin with. Most of the problems were shown to devs prior to mod 5. They were ignored (remember they want to make cash out of it. Just like with Oghma artifact bug, Class opness every now and then. This will not change and its not dependant on players choice). Experienced players explicitly explained what should be changed. No further changes were made. Let people with some experience on the subject ask for proper class adjustments. not everyone wants to pull your pants down and get you from behind with swirling +infinity soul eating dagger using lashing omfg blade and kill you instantly and all your campsite respawned copies furthermore before you even click release.
Get headphones for PVP if u can afford them.
Use more than 3 fixed artifacts. Some of them do reveal TR instantly.
Learn how TR moves works. You can anticipate certain rotations which do not change.
Use your sprint when ITC is up. Wasting DC of of a TR.
Stop crying every post! Be a man and take it. Besides patience is a virtue. TR will settle down.
^^^^^
trolollol
Some of them reveal Tr? oh my god !!! yes man.the 2 minutes icd of lantern and the vast 6'' fet radious will save us!!!
thank god i am happy now!!! The answer has been found!!!
"There, in the middle of a circle (node)it lies.
Heaven help me! ( faithfull Dc in mid )
Then all could see by the shine in his eyes (p.vorpal weapon shadow-TR)
The answer had been found. (Lantern of revelation!!Yes!!! )
Back with the people in the circle he stands, (didn't work, resurected in campfire)
Giving, feeling. (ragetyping in zone chat)
With just one touch of a strong right hand, they know (Tr needs nerf!)
Of the temple and the king!!! " (pvp domination-King is Tr)
Ha! u cant take a one time event as a fact, have u seen how sobek clears me? i have absolutely 0 chance vs him not to kill him, i cant even survive him off node! brollax cleared him + allt, again how many times did it happen out of 50 duels?
perma shld remain as an option as dev said it shld be harder to maintain but not to be taken away completely. u guys crying so much cos u get wiped by a tr effectively. its because u are not used to this new tr compare to mod3 and 4 where u didnt even need to dodge the virtually 0 dmg flurry. do u know how long it took to relearn ourselves and how hard we trained to figure out a new viable rotation on preview before mod5 hit live? do u even know the effort sic has put in to make his tr balanced in stats and refined his playstyle? the prob is theres always ppl complaining about either dmg or dodge times or roll distance etc all can be blamed on because they are all different now. learn to counter it as we did testing and nonestop 1v1s for 3+ weeks on preview.
tr needs a dmg reduction sab needs rework cos it went overhead, dont touch the stealth again. you cant make drastic changes to a class's key feature carelessly cos it will only cause more unbalances and issues. end of the story. its already hard to maintain stealth with depetion on hit, reduce the dmg and 100% crit piercing nonesense on sab it will be more acceptable.
"There, in the middle of a circle (node)it lies.
Heaven help me! ( faithfull Dc in mid )
Then all could see by the shine in his eyes (p.vorpal weapon shadow-TR)
The answer had been found. (Lantern of revelation!!Yes!!! )
Back with the people in the circle he stands, (didn't work, resurected in campfire)
Giving, feeling. (ragetyping in zone chat)
With just one touch of a strong right hand, they know (Tr needs nerf!)
Of the temple and the king!!! " (pvp domination-King is Tr)
lol
Token of Chromatic Storm
Tiamat's Orb of Majesty
Oghma's Token of Free Movement
Lostmauth's Horn of Blasting
Lantern of Revelation
To name a few artifacts that do the job if used correctly.
That does not change the fact that devs should focus on bringing GWF back in line with other classes.
This poll is so Objective (capital O) ... 20 out of 50 votes on the 3rd choice come from Absolute members (possibly more , but those are the 15-20 @handles i know since they are on my friend list) ... U know,thats the guild the OP, my dear friend dersidius , is leading . Then on the same choice Nanomidgy votes on 2 accounts (is it just these 2,Nanners,or did u vote on more accounts?)
I admit that the 3rd choice is a bit more fair BUT specially after seeing in how many ways u people are trying to force certain ideas , im all for the 4th option (should i make a few accounts to vote for that ? should i ask every non-TR player to vote for the 4th one aswell? will any of that have any impact ? ofc not , but you people did all those things , and that invalidates any point your "poll" was trying to make)
THIS WHOLE THREAD/POLL IS JUST A FARSE . CLOSE IT .
I knew it. And then the dersidius is saying "look at the poll results, 68% of community don't want this to happen!" roflmao
I don't see the point of this poll lulzzzzzzz. As if the balancing will be based on votes. Get a hold of yourselves fools.
0
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited December 2014
Absolute members were asked to vote and voice their thoughts. In some cases, this was the opposite of sicarius' position.
Agreed with Requiem on DPS DC. "DPS DC isn't NEARLY as OP as DPS TR. A DPS DC is pretty easy to kill in just about any situation outside of a 1v1. A TR isn't. " DPS DC has advantage in many 1v1s, but is easily killed 2v1 and can be easily killed 1v1 if caught in a bad situation. Even in ideal conditions, most classes can 1-rotate a DPS DC if they are lucky. Live TR destroys DPS DC every time, primarily due to TR damage. I've done 100s of 1v1s vs TRs in mod 5. The issue for DPS DC isn't TR stealth. Stealth makes the fight more interesting. The issue is TRs have too much damage. That's why I voted to remove the 100% crit from stealth (in PVP) and make SE subject to DR/Defl/Tenacity/ArmorPen.
There is a lot of emotion in this thread. Lets try to be reasonable and treat each other with respect, lest this thread gets shut down like countless others.
Lol holds us in low regard? What crock have you been reading , PvP communities always held the most talent in every game they exist in.
Go back to killing your dracolich that hasn't changed in a year and a half , this is a PvP thread, not for you
The only people who hold PvPers in high regard are other PvPers. And not even all of them. For instance, cheats and exploiters are despised even within the PvP community. The vast majority of MMO players don't really care one way or the other about PvP epeen waving.
And any thread where stupid ideas are proposed which will affect both PvP and PvE is open to all. No matter how much you might wish otherwise.
"There, in the middle of a circle (node)it lies.
Heaven help me! ( faithfull Dc in mid )
Then all could see by the shine in his eyes (p.vorpal weapon shadow-TR)
The answer had been found. (Lantern of revelation!!Yes!!! )
Back with the people in the circle he stands, (didn't work, resurected in campfire)
Giving, feeling. (ragetyping in zone chat)
With just one touch of a strong right hand, they know (Tr needs nerf!)
Of the temple and the king!!! " (pvp domination-King is Tr)
To make this clear to anyone.
When ppl ask "how can i kill someone i can't see?" my reply is: " Use your EARS"
most think it as a joke (one actually put me on ignore for that) but is more than true and the best way to deal with a stealth tr.
Those of you that use 2.1 speakers won't notice
I use a cheap 5.1 headset and tho 5.1 on a headset sounds lame it works amazingly well. Besides visuals, powers also make sounds, sounds that can make the tr detectable very very precisely.
Trust me when i say that sound makes stealth visible.
Look how a 13k TR can easly 1 shot ppl with Lasching Blade,it's crazy...i'm a 19k CW and i can't 1 shot anybody -.- they must to do something and faster..pvp is totally ruined.
Ha! u cant take a one time event as a fact, have u seen how sobek clears me? i have absolutely 0 chance vs him not to kill him, i cant even survive him off node! brollax cleared him + allt, again how many times did it happen out of 50 duels?
perma shld remain as an option as dev said it shld be harder to maintain but not to be taken away completely. u guys crying so much cos u get wiped by a tr effectively. its because u are not used to this new tr compare to mod3 and 4 where u didnt even need to dodge the virtually 0 dmg flurry. do u know how long it took to relearn ourselves and how hard we trained to figure out a new viable rotation on preview before mod5 hit live? do u even know the effort sic has put in to make his tr balanced in stats and refined his playstyle? the prob is theres always ppl complaining about either dmg or dodge times or roll distance etc all can be blamed on because they are all different now. learn to counter it as we did testing and nonestop 1v1s for 3+ weeks on preview.
tr needs a dmg reduction sab needs rework cos it went overhead, dont touch the stealth again. you cant make drastic changes to a class's key feature carelessly cos it will only cause more unbalances and issues. end of the story. its already hard to maintain stealth with depetion on hit, reduce the dmg and 100% crit piercing nonesense on sab it will be more acceptable.
2 words: target lock. It's not "skill" or "adapting". It's pressing one button to let a tool lock on target.
and 2 times it's gang-bang with savage advance (lock on target).
Would also note how at 15:00 roughly (a bit before it) you (supposedly squishy DPS class) jump on node vs 2-3 enemies, CW gang-bang, you tank the dmg and slip away alive. Sobek (supposed sentinel tank, semi-tank class) does the exact same thing few seconds later, and is shot down in the blink of an eye.
Shown also in scores: you are more survivable than a tank. You die less and still kill a lot.
The whole time what i see is, apart from the 2-3 times he target locks you, he does exactly what JeB did: Sobek (can clearly see) jumps on node, shooting his FLS/CAGI/DS intimidation combo, his HPs drop to 10%, die few seconds later.
That video just shows the mess PvP has become.
I don't care if it's stealth or anything else. Point is, sab or whatever it is that needs a "rework", must be reworked cause it's quite stupid that we have to look at Assassins tanking/ surviving more than tanks even when caught, tanks dealing absurd single target bursts with AoE utility encounters, and pretty much see that instead of being a balanced mix of hide and seek and skills/ anticipation, it's permastealth vs targetlock and AoE intimidation bursts.
It cannot be mistaken that he is locking on you cause all he does is bunnyhopping following the exact, same path you take. You could draw lines of your movement, his movement, it was the same and he was not seeing you. It's not skills, not anticipating your movement. Just lock in TR when you see him then let the game do the work for you.
Funny thing, the only thing i've seen TRs complaining on forums before the stealth change was announced, was exactly the request to remove target lock from the game.
Without it, your Sobek is no different from JeB.
He's a good GWF player but GWF gets as far as that now: jump, run, shoot AoE stuff, die.
Oh well, it doesn't matter. That's just my opinion but again, i'm not a BiS Premade player. Might as well be completely wrong. I'm shifting to PvE till the devs figure out what they want to do with PvP. Current PvP is not worth playing.
To make this clear to anyone.
When ppl ask "how can i kill someone i can't see?" my reply is: " Use your EARS"
most think it as a joke (one actually put me on ignore for that) but is more than true and the best way to deal with a stealth tr.
Those of you that use 2.1 speakers won't notice
I use a cheap 5.1 headset and tho 5.1 on a headset sounds lame it works amazingly well. Besides visuals, powers also make sounds, sounds that can make the tr detectable very very precisely.
Trust me when i say that sound makes stealth visible.
Shhhhhsssshhhh. they will treat you as a troll as well. Even if you would stand not stealthed among them they would not notice you, because they would be checking their facebook profiles for "whats in the box? with an result: screwdriver".
I dont understand why you keep linking mod 4 videos, its completely different now, the only job i had was to survive and keep away from ANY CLASS. the fact that i cld get tracked and one shotted cos i had no dmg in mod4 they cld afford to be aggressive, now if a gwf misses his encounters either i dodged or completely out of range on the other side of node where he predicted wrong i can burst back cos of mod5 dmg; same for me, if i miss my daze or timed my moves wrong i deserve to take the wrath from a power based gwf. Again you cant make a 20sec one time event as a proof for anything because its very subjective and situational. sobek knows how to waste my stamina and wipe me when he knows im near or have no itc.. i already agreed the dmg buff we have now is off the chart especailly for a stealth focused tree (sab), as i have stated multiple times, nerf more especially bb and shadow proc and respect DR etc, what stealth has to do with it to begin with? aside from the 100% crit nonesense. its the burst dmg TR lacked for 3 modules that shocked you, not because you cant see us most of the time.
as i have stated multiple times, nerf more especially bb and shadow proc and respect DR etc, what stealth has to do with it to begin with? aside from the 100% crit nonesense.
tell you what is the difference: the amount of time you;ll kill your target. If now is 5 sec flat, after dmg nerf will be probably 7-8 sec, but the outcome is always the same cause stealth is the same. Now with the new changes you;ll just have to work a bit for the kills.
I have killed an hr 22k with a mage 19k on a node in GG in 1v2 as a WK 13k TR, pls get a grip of reality.
Comments
Your doing it again, your dodging the fact that DPS DC is nearly as OP as TR on live
LMAO your really trying to compare your skill to mine.....XD
Seriously, okay xDD
K I'm still laughing
Alright moving on
Then your playing your DPS DC wrong my friend, Iyon plays his with ruthless efficiency,
CW Has 0 Chance
GWF has 0 Chance
TR Can win (Only because of dailies, and only on live server)
HR is 70/30 in DC favor
SW has 0 Chance
GF has to 1 shot on first rotation or he loses, therefore if he isnt a BiS Conq (Which is useless in premades) He loses.
Notice the trend here?
... so lets see, you can't play your DC, and your having seemingly serious issues with stealth trs.... Im noticing a lot of L2P issues
Still trying to Duck the fact that your DPS tree is blatantly OP
Show one screenshot here about said allegations or never bring up the topic again
The leaderboard, the thing everyone refers to as a joke, this 43% on something that is easily glitched, and exploited YES SIR, your statistics are rock solid
My K/D - Pugflation
Sorry, your talking about things you dont know about again, you've never been in a top of the line guild match, nor do you know how often they occur
Just an FYI I've only personally ran into a full CS premade with a full premade on my side 8-9 times
I've only rank into an EoA premade 3-4 times
My previous comments stand
You can't play your DPS DC correctly, evidence of this is your lack of admission that a geared out DC can beat all the classes mentioned - or your just a liar
Therefore your skill set is sub par
You have NEVER pvp'ed in an organized match - your Knowledge base, not even started
Excuse me sir, but you don't know jack HAMSTER about what your talking about, and your only statistic is based on exploited material
You should probably start a thread about fire of the gods if your so concerned about class balance... oh wait, your not
I am, you need to check your facts before you talk HAMSTER, because everything you mention is false in the world of an end game pvp match
#1 DPS DC isn't NEARLY as OP as DPS TR. A DPS DC is pretty easy to kill in just about any situation outside of a 1v1. A TR isn't.
#2 I love how your arguments always seem to devolve into "You suck at PvP. I'm right."
You don't wanna reveal? Then give away long roll and +25% deflec sev
you don't wanna nerf damage? Then give away 100% crit change
This is one of the dev solution and i personaly agree with this
I realy appreciate dev fast response change so no need to wait next mod again, thank you
Ok, so now you're trying to talk about DC in a thread about TR, a thread that you made. What in the world are you doing now?
In any case, yes, they can tone down the DoT just a bit for DC, making it 7 seconds instead of 15 (so it doesn't linger as long after the DC has been defeated), maybe 80%. But most of the problem is in empowered astral shield. 2% per stack of empowered would be better than 3, making it 6% at max stack than 9%. Blocking nearly 4200 damage per attack is a little ridiculous.
I do believe the true measure of skill is making things that are weaker be effective. Like playing a DPS DC in mod 4. Like playing scoundrel that doesn't have the damage of Exec, or the permastealth of Sab. But, once again, irrelevant. If you're so skilled, make a weaker tree work in PvP. Rookz can do this with trapper, but you seem to be afraid to.
First, let Iyon defend himself, I see him posting once in a while in this thread. And I'll tell you as I told him back during the Test Shard, I don't use dragon glyphs in PvP, simply because they're cheesy and ungraceful. Plus, tell him to duel some proper CW's like "In the Library" from Exodus, some proper GWF like Etherion from EoA, and any TR.
I still don't understand the mental gymnastics required to talk about DC in a thread you started about TR.
It's out there.
First, it's accurate in telling the general state of classes in PvP, and gives accurate data in K/D ratios which are also an indication of power.
Now, are you saying you mostly PuG stomp instead of playing serious Premades? If that's the case, then the data is still relevant as I'm sure there are TR's that run more PuG's than premades. There's 43 of them in the top 100.
And this isn't much of a response to those statistics.
They occur often enough. In any case, about those TR's.....
So what does this have to do with TR's??? I mean, if you're trying to say that you're stats are 90% from pugging, then ok, Deridius, you're a pug stomper, but then that's more indicative of overall class balance as well.
Invite Iyon and several top classes into Icewind, we can turn this into a server event. We'll see how this turns out.
False.
Also false.
Is that an admission that you have exploited?
OK, I'll make a compendium on class balance changes for every class. I'll add in the suggestions listed here regarding DPS DC.
Yeah, not really. In any case, I'm guessing it's too much to ask you to stay on topic at this point. So, keep on swinging, and let everybody see it. I'll just keep pointing out that this is a thread about TR changes.
I would like to see this as well.
Although it is a thread about TRs, not DCs! I Am's class was largely irrelevant to the points he was making. But of course, OP just wanted to obfuscate the matter by making mostly unrelated arguments about DC OP levels.
Is everyone not in agreement though (including OP): TRs need a DPS decrease ASAP. On their dailies and possibly their stuns. TRs should never be able to win 2v1 when all players are BIS.
Once that gets sorted out, I have no problem with TRs being slightly upgraded versions of their module 4 forms.
Didn't OP say in-game the other day that TR are balanced? :P
And solves nothing other than pushes TRs toward the only PVP viable tree.
They should redesign piercing damage additive feats, and restealth feats. Not to mention bullcrap they had released on prev where casting SS from stealth reveals you - i mean come on?!
basically this
I defended perma stealth till module 4 cause at that point it was still possible to catch the TR since the shorter rolls and less rolls allowed you to actually pressure them once you could spot them. Now don't fool yourselves, the buff to rolls and mobility in general make it a joke for a TR to kite from permastealth every class except pretty much HRs, cause HRs have thorn wards and boar (insta-cast prone) to catch the TR.
Classes like GWF with useless stun (quite often nullified by deflection) and not enough mobility to pressure the new META build are harmless.
But i would be happy if you could prove me wrong. May be with a video of you guys going against a current PvP META TR with a GWF, CW, GF, SW and actually show me a balanced fight.
Please. Show me how my 1 year experience fighting permas with no particular problems till module 4, now turned into a l2p issue in module 5.
Dersidius, i don't get it: did you say you can track/ catch a Mod5 perma TR 2v1 only? Didn't understand.
We asked. Devs ignored us.
I'm all in for buffs. If i can get increased sprint on my GWF and prones back to counter perma increased rolls, mobility and deflect nullifying stuns, i'm happy enough.
Just do not pretend that the buffs to rolls and mobility didn't affect the already amazing survivability of TRs. Cause it sounds ridiculous when you see videos over videos of top GWF like PapaBiGN, Tirion, JeB, or the GF in the third video i posted who is number 2 (if i'm correct) in leaderboard being kited forever and being playing around, and then the very same TRs who do that say it's a l2p issue.
It's quite simple. Take for example JeB vs Nanners video.
What you see there is that the TR has 0.2s of vulnerability, and only cause he decided to kite on node/ close to the GWF. He was supposed to catch him in those 0.2s taking latency into account, with daily.
So:
-what if he didn't have daily up. Could may be stun, which is often nullified by deflection+tenacity on HRs/ TRs
-what if the TR decided to kite out of reach (not always on node but in-out of node)
-even if he could catch him once, and let's say 1-rotate him, sulforged would proc and the TR would've been again safe in stealth, to just finish him with BB as we see.
There's no argument to prove the GWF could win in that video. The TR always got enough tools to take him down and survive. Even taking into account the very tiny small chance he get to catch the TR (which again, would be non-existent if the TR just decided to kite out of reach instead of moving close to the GWF).
Can prove me wrong grabbing your GWF and facing a good mod5 PvP TR to show how your skills allow you to counter the TR stealth+rolls+mobility and how it is a l2p issue.
Rather than speaking here you should talk to devs.
Bellow couple of things that do help (but do not guarantee success against TR)
Get headphones for PVP if u can afford them.
Use more than 3 fixed artifacts. Some of them do reveal TR instantly.
Learn how TR moves works. You can anticipate certain rotations which do not change.
Use your sprint when ITC is up. Wasting DC of of a TR.
Stop crying every post! Be a man and take it. Besides patience is a virtue. TR will settle down.
To explain my last sentences. Never lowered myself to a point where i was l2p nub crying for nerfs. Not when TR was at the bottom and your class was at the very top of the foods chain. Just Never. To criticize the class it would be nice to actually play it to know what to change to begin with. Most of the problems were shown to devs prior to mod 5. They were ignored (remember they want to make cash out of it. Just like with Oghma artifact bug, Class opness every now and then. This will not change and its not dependant on players choice). Experienced players explicitly explained what should be changed. No further changes were made. Let people with some experience on the subject ask for proper class adjustments. not everyone wants to pull your pants down and get you from behind with swirling +infinity soul eating dagger using lashing omfg blade and kill you instantly and all your campsite respawned copies furthermore before you even click release.
^^^^^
trolollol
Some of them reveal Tr? oh my god !!!
thank god i am happy now!!! The answer has been found!!!
The song says it aswell!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUpxniZBb5s 3.38
"There, in the middle of a circle (node)it lies.
Heaven help me! ( faithfull Dc in mid
Then all could see by the shine in his eyes (p.vorpal weapon shadow-TR)
The answer had been found. (Lantern of revelation!!Yes!!! )
Back with the people in the circle he stands, (didn't work,
Giving, feeling. (ragetyping in zone chat)
With just one touch of a strong right hand, they know (Tr needs nerf!)
Of the temple and the king!!! " (pvp domination-King is Tr)
lol
perma shld remain as an option as dev said it shld be harder to maintain but not to be taken away completely. u guys crying so much cos u get wiped by a tr effectively. its because u are not used to this new tr compare to mod3 and 4 where u didnt even need to dodge the virtually 0 dmg flurry. do u know how long it took to relearn ourselves and how hard we trained to figure out a new viable rotation on preview before mod5 hit live? do u even know the effort sic has put in to make his tr balanced in stats and refined his playstyle? the prob is theres always ppl complaining about either dmg or dodge times or roll distance etc all can be blamed on because they are all different now. learn to counter it as we did testing and nonestop 1v1s for 3+ weeks on preview.
tr needs a dmg reduction sab needs rework cos it went overhead, dont touch the stealth again. you cant make drastic changes to a class's key feature carelessly cos it will only cause more unbalances and issues. end of the story. its already hard to maintain stealth with depetion on hit, reduce the dmg and 100% crit piercing nonesense on sab it will be more acceptable.
Token of Chromatic Storm
Tiamat's Orb of Majesty
Oghma's Token of Free Movement
Lostmauth's Horn of Blasting
Lantern of Revelation
To name a few artifacts that do the job if used correctly.
That does not change the fact that devs should focus on bringing GWF back in line with other classes.
I knew it. And then the dersidius is saying "look at the poll results, 68% of community don't want this to happen!" roflmao
Agreed with Requiem on DPS DC. "DPS DC isn't NEARLY as OP as DPS TR. A DPS DC is pretty easy to kill in just about any situation outside of a 1v1. A TR isn't. " DPS DC has advantage in many 1v1s, but is easily killed 2v1 and can be easily killed 1v1 if caught in a bad situation. Even in ideal conditions, most classes can 1-rotate a DPS DC if they are lucky. Live TR destroys DPS DC every time, primarily due to TR damage. I've done 100s of 1v1s vs TRs in mod 5. The issue for DPS DC isn't TR stealth. Stealth makes the fight more interesting. The issue is TRs have too much damage. That's why I voted to remove the 100% crit from stealth (in PVP) and make SE subject to DR/Defl/Tenacity/ArmorPen.
There is a lot of emotion in this thread. Lets try to be reasonable and treat each other with respect, lest this thread gets shut down like countless others.
Iyon the Dark
And any thread where stupid ideas are proposed which will affect both PvP and PvE is open to all. No matter how much you might wish otherwise.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
A million +1 to that!
(i'm crying..)
To make this clear to anyone.
When ppl ask "how can i kill someone i can't see?" my reply is: " Use your EARS"
most think it as a joke (one actually put me on ignore for that) but is more than true and the best way to deal with a stealth tr.
Those of you that use 2.1 speakers won't notice
I use a cheap 5.1 headset and tho 5.1 on a headset sounds lame it works amazingly well. Besides visuals, powers also make sounds, sounds that can make the tr detectable very very precisely.
Trust me when i say that sound makes stealth visible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVMWNgzr69Q
You talk about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw0Z5XcHd3U&list=UUmHMf7ACyBQqMjXbVmbWqTw
2 words: target lock. It's not "skill" or "adapting". It's pressing one button to let a tool lock on target.
and 2 times it's gang-bang with savage advance (lock on target).
Would also note how at 15:00 roughly (a bit before it) you (supposedly squishy DPS class) jump on node vs 2-3 enemies, CW gang-bang, you tank the dmg and slip away alive. Sobek (supposed sentinel tank, semi-tank class) does the exact same thing few seconds later, and is shot down in the blink of an eye.
Shown also in scores: you are more survivable than a tank. You die less and still kill a lot.
The whole time what i see is, apart from the 2-3 times he target locks you, he does exactly what JeB did: Sobek (can clearly see) jumps on node, shooting his FLS/CAGI/DS intimidation combo, his HPs drop to 10%, die few seconds later.
That video just shows the mess PvP has become.
I don't care if it's stealth or anything else. Point is, sab or whatever it is that needs a "rework", must be reworked cause it's quite stupid that we have to look at Assassins tanking/ surviving more than tanks even when caught, tanks dealing absurd single target bursts with AoE utility encounters, and pretty much see that instead of being a balanced mix of hide and seek and skills/ anticipation, it's permastealth vs targetlock and AoE intimidation bursts.
It cannot be mistaken that he is locking on you cause all he does is bunnyhopping following the exact, same path you take. You could draw lines of your movement, his movement, it was the same and he was not seeing you. It's not skills, not anticipating your movement. Just lock in TR when you see him then let the game do the work for you.
Funny thing, the only thing i've seen TRs complaining on forums before the stealth change was announced, was exactly the request to remove target lock from the game.
Without it, your Sobek is no different from JeB.
He's a good GWF player but GWF gets as far as that now: jump, run, shoot AoE stuff, die.
Oh well, it doesn't matter. That's just my opinion but again, i'm not a BiS Premade player. Might as well be completely wrong. I'm shifting to PvE till the devs figure out what they want to do with PvP. Current PvP is not worth playing.
with one absolute exception
Shhhhhsssshhhh. they will treat you as a troll as well. Even if you would stand not stealthed among them they would not notice you, because they would be checking their facebook profiles for "whats in the box? with an result: screwdriver".
tell you what is the difference: the amount of time you;ll kill your target. If now is 5 sec flat, after dmg nerf will be probably 7-8 sec, but the outcome is always the same cause stealth is the same. Now with the new changes you;ll just have to work a bit for the kills.
I have killed an hr 22k with a mage 19k on a node in GG in 1v2 as a WK 13k TR, pls get a grip of reality.