Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction

dersidius · December 2014

This poll will accumulate data on what the community truly thinks in regards to TR's stealth in combination with its damage

1) TR's Need the Stealth Reveal

2) TR's Don't need the Stealth Reveal

3) TR's Need a Damage Reduction to Dailies Instead of a Stealth Reveal

4) TR's Need both a Stealth Reveal and Damage Reduction

5) TR's Need No Stealth Reveal, but 100% Crit needs to be Removed.

For those who do not know, When I say stealth reveal, I'm refering to the recent suggested change my developers that will make a rogue visible for 2 seconds after hitting someone

I encourage all voters to test on the PTR before voting.

josiahiyon · December 2014

I vote for the last 1, although I'd add that Shocking Execution should be subject to Damage Resistance, Deflection, Tenacity, Armor Pen, etc

nem3ziss · December 2014

No stealth reveal, for sure damage reduction on daylies. Fix dazing going through block and CC immunity. If stealth reveal will be implemented, then don't do this in lazy way: shadow strike will reveal you for 2 seconds? Every proc/DoT will reveal you? That'not solution, but lazy way to stop people from qq on forum about TR's.

biibiisai · December 2014

Could you specify what is stealth reveal? Does the current status count? Right now you can see them when they get near.

dersidius · December 2014

Currently the devs plan to add a stealth reveal that means that TR's will be visible for 2 Seconds if they ever hit you, even if they have stealth

biibiisai · December 2014

oh got it. Thanks

greatweaponarmy · December 2014

Option 4.

You know it is wrong when a small, frail, dual-wielding person can be more brutal than a Monster with a Great Weapon, and the two second reveal will give other classes a chance to fight back. Now no class will be able to 1vX, which should be the way to go.

nanners · December 2014

No stealth reveal, but need damage reduction, also I agree crit chance needs to be affected by actual crit stats.

TRs are already easy to track and follow when near plus encounter cancellation (i.e come and get it, steal time), HR's roots and thorn ward detection and Hard traget lock. it's already provided other classes a window opportunity to catch the TR.

nanners · December 2014

greatweaponarmy wrote: »

Option 4.

You know it is wrong when a small, frail, dual-wielding person can be more brutal than a Monster with a Great Weapon, and the two second reveal will give other classes a chance to fight back. Now no class will be able to 1vX, which should be the way to go.

TR is a triker class if you care enough to read the class description, it meant to be illusively deadly and perform brutal backstab. Sure it makes sense when a full metal plated warrior can sprint faster than 110% quality mount right? your arguement is void.

lenchikpenchik · December 2014

TR's Need a Damage Reduction to Dailies Instead of a Stealth Reveal

THAT is for sure... I play whisper knife and getting dazed/shocking executed is ridiculous. Nobody stands a chance... Devs, do some work! Stop trying to find easier ways out, because QQ is gonna continue about rogues damage, then u will be forced to reduce it... With 2 seconds visibility and no damage - vioala, u got a sad class that cant even protect itself properly, because rogues are squish.

effectenstein · December 2014

imo TR is good with his stealth, but a nerf on ITC would solve the problem.
and some damage reduction based on damage bonus he gets from POWER as well .

dersidius · December 2014

I never asked for TR's to have amazing damage, I just wanted damage that was lethal and the fix of all bugs. Stealth should've never been touched, and now it's being all but removed (If the TR wants to kill things).

tsokushin · December 2014

The problem with the Damage reduction is that it'll be harder to balance. Honestly the best bet now is to keep the damage, but move forward with the stealth reveal.

If damage is reduced, then TR's will suffer in PvE and surely with the state of stealth, people will just call more for nerfs to the point where it's mod 4 damage levels again.

The best bet is to set the TR up for the ideal glass cannon: lethal damage, but can be countered. This change with the stealth reveal is necessary with *minor* other damage tonedowns in the form of reducing some of the critical severity.

dersidius · December 2014

Not really, the removal of 100% crit is probably a beyond easy way to balance the damage

josiahiyon · December 2014

TRs have 25-35% crit. that means it'd take 3-4 shocking on average for 1 to crit. that extends the fight awhile, giving more time to clear the tr and more time to regen hp or get assistance. Also, this would impact Disheartening Strike (big dot dmg of Whisperknife).

tsokushin · December 2014

dersidius wrote: »

Not really, the removal of 100% crit is probably a beyond easy way to balance the damage

And, however, it was the intention of the devs (at behest of the the playerbase) to make it hard to permastealth.

The reveal would make this possible while keeping the lethality of current TR's.

This is the best course of action, unless you want a repeat of nerfs due to permastealth.

dersidius · December 2014

Aside from the fact that further nerf wont be necessesary if dailies are dealt with accordingly

lvl99looter · December 2014

Remove the dazing feat!

tourtas · December 2014

Option 4.
Perma stealth tr was supposed to be history with this mod. But is better than before.
Dmg reduction is obviously needed.

100% crits can be abused badly also, not sure how to deal with that. you can't keep refiling stealth and criting with any power you choose. it's too much

whitespicyrice · December 2014

Through out my past year of experienced PvP I've never seen such a powerful class than what the Devs did to the rework of TRs this module. Having bloodbath 1v2ing top end PvP people with ease is just obscene. Also on top of that they have a 100% chance to crit..When i first saw experienced it myself i thought it was a bug in stealth, but it wasn't it was all in the rework of it. It will definitely balance the change to TR if you just get rid of the crit ( The nerf to bloodbath was also needed NOT the stealth reveal ). Sure to other non TR pvpers are having a jolly time with that change because they hate what they have done to the class, but to TRs it just isn't fair, it ruins the play style of the class. Most of their damage is all because of their crit. As being an hr having 50%+deflect it doesn't even matter if i deflect some dmg i just still get dailied to death or gloaming cut to death if I have no dodges because it all crits. If the 100% crit will go live then here's what will happen in PvP due to that change.

1.) More survivability ( more of a chance at beating the tr [ terms of 1v1 ] )
2.) More skill needs to be required for the Tr class user
3.) Clearing 1v2 will be a lot easier

So ya just change 100% crit chance and there will be no problem lol

demonmonger · December 2014

naicalus wrote: »

The real option: PvP whiners need to stop crying and baw-ing for damage nerf after damage nerf after damage nerf that screws over PvE TR time and time again. You're a tiny percent of the population. Stop ruining it for the vast majority of us. Thanks.

This is when all tr go scoundrel .... Because of nerfs.
This patch wont hurt tr... Unless you use blitz from stealth as sab in a large group that uses hard target lock... You have nothing to worry about.
Showing where we are just adds to our misdirection ability

ltgamesttv · December 2014

Your poll graph looks like you're using sign language to express your feelings for the upcoming potential changes.

ortzhy · December 2014

i cant remember any other mmo where a rogue class is perma stealth like here or have such a huge sustain/burst dmg. A rogue should be able to finish off kills and not kill entire groups while in stealth. Even with this stealth change, that is a very good thing, this class will still need some extra adjustments regarding daze duration...

Been around here for a long time and tbh i've seen threads like this for pretty much everyclass that was op at some point.

vadimt83 · December 2014

Stealth revieal is welcomed, damage nerf on the other hand is not. TRs need more tools out of steath and be less dependant on it.
The whole stealth mechanic in NW is rediloclous. Rouges in DnD dont stay in stealth forever. They use it as a tool to get in and out of combat. Get in stealth, sneak behind your target, backstab (why we dont have backsrack is beyond me. at least we have SE), now they see you, finish your target, back into stealth and away.

twilightwatchman · December 2014

BTW - where's the 'none of the above' option? They are all bad solutions. They need to make the Sab tree work the way it was intended - moving in and out of stealth rapidly - and that would fix just about everything. A 2-second stealth reveal that affects all TRs whether permastealth or not is just clumsy.

rashylewizz · December 2014

Module 4 permastealth was completely fine. They just need to reduce TR's damage by A LOT

Unknown · December 2014

This content has been removed.

zereldo · December 2014

I vote for #3. Stealth reveal is absolutely unnecessary, in return the overall damage output needs to be addressed. In my mind, a TR's Gameplay should be based on tactical maneuverability rather than "one shotting", high DPS Encounter/At-will spams.

twilightwatchman · December 2014

ortzhy wrote: »

i cant remember any other mmo where a rogue class is perma stealth like here or have such a huge sustain/burst dmg.

Really? You can't have played many MMOs. The key characteristic of most Rogue classes is high burst.

Permastealth I'll give you. Stealth implementation in Neverwinter is the worst I've ever come across. Stealth should never be tied into a class as intimately as it is with the TR, and should never be usable IN combat - only to set up Alpha strikes and get into/out of combat.

twilightwatchman · December 2014

zereldo wrote: »

I vote for #3. Stealth reveal is absolutely unnecessary, in return the overall damage output needs to be addressed. In my mind, a TR's Gameplay should be based on tactical maneuverability rather than "one shotting", high DPS Encounter/At-will spams.

Any suggestions that will make the TR a PvP only class are an automatic fail.

isuuck2 · December 2014

i choose the dmg reduction. Although the stealth in my opinion was a good move. reducing their dmg from dailies, at-wills, and ofc fixing the scoundrel feats so they respect cc immunity or at least shorter daze times because that **** is a cc that procs. Dumb idea.

Stealth Change vs Damage Reduction

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